jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => General Chat => Topic started by: Ben30 on October 24, 2017, 08:05:25 PM
-
Lets discuss what this man believes and what he is trying to achieve in Orthodontics.
My personal experience with orthodontics maxillofacial surgery and a chronic stuffy nose has led me to align with him and I'd like to support him by discussing his ideas and the problems he faces.
Please support him by watching his videos on YouTube, visiting his Facebook page and join in the discussion.
Here is a video he just uploaded to vent his frustration with the politics of Orthodontics in his country.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nGMkTTr6Isw
Many thanks
Ben
-
He used to post here. Very weird and attacked members for their opinions/criticisms.
-
Lets discuss what this man believes and what he is trying to achieve in Orthodontics.
My personal experience with orthodontics maxillofacial surgery and a chronic stuffy nose has led me to align with him and I'd like to support him by discussing his ideas and the problems he faces.
Please support him by watching his videos on YouTube, visiting his Facebook page and join in the discussion.
Here is a video he just uploaded to vent his frustration with the politics of Orthodontics in his country.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nGMkTTr6Isw
Many thanks
Ben
Im not sold on his theories making any significant impact on a persons looks. I do think his stuff is more potentially credible than weston a price
-
Weston Price has so many logical flaws, yet people eat it up just based on a few anecdotes and correlations.
-
Weston Price has so many logical flaws, yet people eat it up just based on a few anecdotes and correlations.
My question on weston comes even before the logic stuff. It says he analyzed all the primative ppls food and discovered activator x etc, im very curious to know what type of equipment used in the 1920s in remote parts of the world to analyze the food
-
He used to post here. Very weird and attacked members for their opinions/criticisms.
I had a skype consult with him regarding a functional issue. very f***ing weird. Seems to have aspergers or some sort of social issue.
He skyped from some grotty flat and wore a ski coat...
I guess this shows that adult skull remodeling s possible. https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/90494273733579491/
-
I had a skype consult with him regarding a functional issue. very f***ing weird. Seems to have aspergers or some sort of social issue.
He skyped from some grotty flat and wore a ski coat...
I guess this shows that adult skull remodeling s possible. https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/90494273733579491/
Not sure if the images on that site would be considered (favorable) skull remodeling. (https://i.pinimg.com/236x/56/57/bb/5657bb6474f9fe55616db4196b45bd62--human-oddities-medical-oddities.jpg)
-
My question on weston comes even before the logic stuff. It says he analyzed all the primative ppls food and discovered activator x etc, im very curious to know what type of equipment used in the 1920s in remote parts of the world to analyze the food
To the best of my knowledge WP's salient observation was that indigenous of tribal people had GREAT jaw bone structure, wide palates and strong straight teeth. These tribal people, ISOLATED from 'modern man', ate a lot of foods where they had to use their JAWS a lot to chew eg. stuff like tree bark sometimes. They did not eat refined sugars/carbohydrates or soft stuff eaten by those in post industrial revolution. Genetically, it lead to adaptation where the next generation would inherent the good jaw balance and wide palates and strong teeth. He attributed the post industrial revolution diet of soft foods and refined carbohydrates the key cause of weak facial structures in many 'modernized' people. Genetic material/DNA can change over the course of generations to adapt to environmental factors. Hence modern people over the course of generations who were accustomed to 'modern' foods, NOT NEEDING very strong jaws to chew them, adapted to the diet by having the smaller bone structures or jaws.
i don't know what 'activator X' is but the equipment at time to measure was most likely astute observation as to note the bone structure was quite good compared to other people in 'modern societies' with processed foods in addition to calipers to measure facial distances.
-
Kavan,
I believed narrow jaws are less caused by genetic than our diet in our childhood. It's because of mashed potatoes, chopped steak, yogourt that our jaws did not developped well.
For aesthetical and health reason (balance of the squelettal, performance in sport, breathing) we do need large jaws. There is no exception.
The same thing can be said about people with a long face. It is more because there were (are) mouth breather than genetic that they have this issue.
Environnmental factors such as oral posture are more important.
In my family, nobody have needed orthodontics except me. Why ? Because I used to suckle my thongue for years. And I was the only one doing it. Maybe I was insecure
-
Kavan,
I believed narrow jaws are less caused by genetic than our diet in our childhood. It's because of mashed potatoes, chopped steak, yogourt that our jaws did not developped well.
For aesthetical and health reason (balance of the squelettal, performance in sport, breathing) we do need large jaws. There is no exception.
The same thing can be said about people with a long face. It is more because there were (are) mouth breather than genetic that they have this issue.
Environnmental factors such as oral posture are more important.
In my family, nobody have needed orthodontics except me. Why ? Because I used to suckle my thongue for years. And I was the only one doing it. Maybe I was insecure
Well, soft food diet easily contributes to it, soft food diet IS an ENVIRONMENTAL factor. The jaws can adapt to that by becoming smaller even if one is the first one to have it when ancestors had larger jaws . As to genetic adaptations to environment, consider there is always a FIRST one and then the genes can be passed on to future offspring.
The other factor is epigenics where one has the good genes for the big jaws but they don't become 'expressed' in the physical body due to environmental factors, eg. eating soft foods and thumb sucking.
-
What was weird about him?
I heard that his fees are pretty high.
-
As to genetic adaptations to environment,
I have studied biology and I can tell that you can eating soft food, it won't never alter your DNA. Eating soft food = no chew = less bone stimulation = narrow jaws.
The DNA is not involved in this process.
eating soft food is not like a chemical attack, it won't alter anything.
But I've read recently that chemicals in food and in the air can actually limit jaw's developpement in children.
I have all these informations in a book written by a dentist who explain that teeth extraction worsen the narrow jaws issue.
The solution is to expand the jaw, and expansion should be made before 8. After 8 with a palatal expander, it is not the jaw itself that will be larger but only the alveolar bone.
-
As to genetic adaptations to environment,
I have studied biology and I can tell that you can eating soft food, it won't never alter your DNA. Eating soft food = no chew = less bone stimulation = narrow jaws.
The DNA is not involved in this process.
eating soft food is not like a chemical attack, it won't alter anything.
But I've read recently that chemicals in food and in the air can actually limit jaw's developpement in children.
I have all these informations in a book written by a dentist who explain that teeth extraction worsen the narrow jaws issue.
The solution is to expand the jaw, and expansion should be made before 8. After 8 with a palatal expander, it is not the jaw itself that will be larger but only the alveolar bone.
Doesn't your book also tell you that adaptations to the environment over the course of time can change genetic material passed on ...you know...for example, evolution?...slight changes in it's expression? Anyway, eating the soft foods, diet is an environmental thing in the sense, the habit is part of the environmental factors such as culture.
-
Contrariwise, the dentist defends the idea that the theory of evolution regarding is not accurate.
The way we breathe, the oral habits and our diets played a major role in our jaws developpment.
I know that "evolution" is a theory widely conveyed but not scientifically proved.
-
Contrariwise, the dentist defends the idea that the theory of evolution regarding is not accurate.
The way we breathe, the oral habits and our diets played a major role in our jaws developpment.
I know that "evolution" is a theory widely conveyed but not scientifically proved.
Well, YES, the way we breath, oral habits and diets play a major role in jaw development. I agree with that.
-
My mother lives off microwave meals and always has done, according to her. Her bone structure and palate are more or less ideal. It's nearly all genetic IMO. Even the predisposition for developing jaw issues involves genetic factors.
It's like people who gain weight very easily - they need to work 10x harder to look just 50% as good as someone else. Life is not fair. Looks and skin are similar. Some people need nothing, others need almost everything, and repeatedly.
-
I agree with you Girl : jaws developpement is also determined by genetical factors.
I was talking with Kavan about genetic alteration of the whole humanity,
Of course, there are individual variations, transmitted from generation of generation.
My sisters' jaws are kind of narrow as mine.
But regarding my class 2 issue, it's defietely my bad oral habits that lead to that. But I saw that oral habits can also be genetically determined ! A family of thumb suckers exists, it can be a neurological habit, genetetically determined !
It's not always evident to distinguish between the factors.
For example, my partner is a mouth breather (with long face syndrome and a huge sleep apnea.)
Is it because he had already a narrow airway when he was a child that he was forced to breath with his mouth ?
Or it is the habit of breathing with his mouth that left him with a narrow airway (his jaw grew vertically and not forward) ?
I believe it's a vicious circle.
Anyway, the best thing to do is to have a consultation with an HONEST orthodontist before 8 to expand the jaws. There are not orthothropics practicionner everywhere and orthodontists don't always do harmfull stuff.
The things to avoid is :
headgear (because it involved the TMJ and moved the upper jaws backward => flat cheeks)
retractive braces (new kind of braces exist that doesn't retract the jaws)
extractions (however, I read that it can be necessary but very seldom and has to be avoid as much as possible).
The dentist's book I've read mentionned Mike Mew only one time :
She was talking about that orthodontists doesn't care about the aesthetical damages of braces etc. contrary to Mew who is aware of that issue.
-
My mother lives off microwave meals and always has done, according to her. Her bone structure and palate are more or less ideal. It's nearly all genetic IMO. Even the predisposition for developing jaw issues involves genetic factors.
It's like people who gain weight very easily - they need to work 10x harder to look just 50% as good as someone else. Life is not fair. Looks and skin are similar. Some people need nothing, others need almost everything, and repeatedly.
I agree. Models in my age range 25-35 grew up eating the junk garbage food ugly ppl did yet are good looking, its cause of their genes
-
When we are adults, jaws developpement is over.
Even if it's garbage food, they chew anyway. They're not on juice and soda H24.
What matters is what they have eaten in their childhood.
-
I agree. Models in my age range 25-35 grew up eating the junk garbage food ugly ppl did yet are good looking, its cause of their genes
They probably come from a long line of ancestors with a better diet.
-
I was well into what Mew was saying for about a year. I'm not so sure about the diet aspect, but I find it hard to disagree with the mouthbreathing connection. My sister and I ate the same foods, lived in the same house, both had orthodontics with extractions blah blah blah. She has the short, broad face of my father. I had frequent sinus infections (untreated) and allergies (untreated) and couldn't breath through my nose most of the time. I have a long, asymmetric face uncharacteristic of anyone in my family. I think if you are mouth breathing (for whatever reason) then you have teeth removed, and your jaws pulled backwards by long periods of orthodontics, you're likely going to end up f**ked.
Mike Mew is kinda weird. Passionate about his work but also a bit socially.......off. His father is one of the nicest people I have ever met, and I believe Mike means well, but has put his own neck on the line by voicing his opinions and, as a result, is not liked by most dentists, orthodontists, and jaw surgeons. He is a bit of a martyr. He's also a bit of a knob.
Most importantly, he's a f**king rip off, if you ask me.
I nearly paid him over £11k for non surgical palate expansion, and balloons shoved up my nose and inflated. Because I agreed with much of his theory about mouthbreathing and facial divergence, and I felt he was genuine, I so nearly went ahead with it. It was the NCR bollocks that put me off. The palate expansion was a fraction of the cost of the NCR, but he only provides it as a package. You basically become a guinea pig for some pseudo science experiment. He wanted me to put in all these hours of adjusting my posture (if I have one good trait, it's boss posture), and breathing and stuff. I started thinking, "what the f**k am I paying you this money for when I'm doing all the work?". Plus he said that if I wasn't committed, it would not be successful. So if I got a crappy result, surely he would just say it was my fault. In the end he actually refused to treat me any way because he had decided to only treat people under age 21. Think he realised that there were limits to what he was offering.
Irrelevant as it is; his dad is a total dude. He even built his own castle.
Peace
I also bought into the ncr and palate expansion device.
-
Thing is i had untreated allergies, freuqnet sinus infextions frequent strep throat, breather throufh my mouth and i have the opposite ,an assymetrical under developed,recesed small midface. I dont have long face
-
I thought that orthotropics were useless after 12... and I've read that NCR was a scam, expensive and even dangerous.
Earl : does your surgery imporove your breath issues, allergies, etc ?
-
I thought that orthotropics were useless after 12... and I've read that NCR was a scam, expensive and even dangerous.
Earl : does your surgery imporove your breath issues, allergies, etc ?
No surgery sidnt impact it. Ncr isnt dangerous, i actually think it might have some value,but is unproven and its very easy to provd is these giys,wanted to do it, but i feel they dont cause if if doesnt really work they lose money
-
Also im not sure how relevent this argument is, but if all this stuff were legit, then ever longstanding weston a price chapter member must have gorgous kids. Id imagine they wouls parade photos of this all over the place. To date i havent seen any UGLY child with ugly parents get turned gorgous by weston or mew etc. I have seen the photos where they claim proves that food etc ruins looks at its a stretch at best
-
I don't know earl, but nowadays, I notice that children have flat cheeks and bags under their eyes.
Maybe it's not just the diet but a bad lifestyle with screen and blue light, not enought sleep...
All of this can affect growth in general.
Genetics do a lot but oral habits destroy a lot too (much than a poor diet).
-
Also im not sure how relevent this argument is, but if all this stuff were legit, then ever longstanding weston a price chapter member must have gorgous kids. Id imagine they wouls parade photos of this all over the place. To date i havent seen any UGLY child with ugly parents get turned gorgous by weston or mew etc. I have seen the photos where they claim proves that food etc ruins looks at its a stretch at best
Earl,
Weston Price is DEAD. He was a dentist who did research on nutrition and health development as it also applied to teeth and tooth bearing structures of the face. The Weston Price FOUNDATION is just something set up by other people who liked his theories. His research, observations and theories have been published for a LONG TIME. Here is info that gives a list of his written works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price His stuff has always been controversial. None the less, an interesting read.
-
Earl,
Weston Price is DEAD. He was a dentist who did research on nutrition and health development as it also applied to teeth and tooth bearing structures of the face. The Weston Price FOUNDATION is just something set up by other people who liked his theories. His research, observations and theories have been published for a LONG TIME. Here is info that gives a list of his written works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Price His stuff has always been controversial. None the less, an interesting read.
Yes i know hes dead and know about the foundation. I meant ppl who follow his work and put it in to practice
-
here's an article about some of the things I was mentioning like where eating soft foods OVER TIME (generations) produces different skull bone structure. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/08/25/birth-farming-caused-jaw-dropping-changes-human-skull-scientists/
-
I can't remove or modify above post so please just ignore it at this stage.
[deleted by mod at request of Ben30]
Awhile back I read an interesting book called "Shut your mouth save your life" it is a very old book and worth reading if your interested in WAP and Mike Mew. https://openlibrary.org/works/OL1096986W/Shut_your_mouth_and_save_your_life
-
Mew ? the famous dentists , the Mew family from UK ?
He and/or his father is also on TMJD Facebook group. Anyone of you there too ?
-
Has mew ever gave un update on incorporating ncr in his practice?
-
I agree. Models in my age range 25-35 grew up eating the junk garbage food ugly ppl did yet are good looking, its cause of their genes
The "your diet must have been bad which is why x is taller and/or better looking than you" or "you should have played sports to improve your body structure" is an excuse for society to deny that most of these things are genetic and you are at the mercy of those genetics.
Its easy for society to blame. I've literally heard people tell me online that "all these good looking people worked for their looks and romantic/sex life. Stop being sorry for yourself and work hard."
They actually believe those words that they say. Unbelievable.
What is there to work for? You can't work for everything. I do not wish to be some adonis, but I just want to be OK looking. That's all I've wanted. No amount of money, fame, or status will replace that. I'd live paycheck to paycheck if I could just have a gf and knew she was attracted to me and wouldn't want to leave me over looks.
When I mention that I AM by looking into current and future craniofacial procedures and that I won't give up even until I'm 40 (I am 22 right now), they flip out for no reason and go into an additional line of stupidity.