jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => General Chat => Topic started by: CuriousDonut on January 30, 2018, 04:25:57 PM
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Just try to be f**king happy, exhaust all available options when it comes to surgery and accept the outcome and attempt to be at peace with it, because you've given it a shot. The majority of experts predict singularity will occur within our lifetime (depends on how old some of you are). Once that happens, it's any ones guess. Hello nanotech, hello advanced surgery, hello age reversal, hello lifelike 100% realistic simulations/virtual reality of our world/society at any time you pick.
That's my plan at least, gonna do what I can with available surgeries, accept that I've done all there is that could have been done and just live life, become knowledgeable and bide time until the singularity :)
(this is for those that are unhappy about aesthetic outcomes btw)
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Stick to your wig Mr Kurzweil, you're too old for jaw surgery.
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Stick to your wig Mr Kurzweil, you're too old for jaw surgery.
you're the type of person holding society and human evolution down you realise?
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you're the type of person holding society and human evolution down you realise?
Just poking some fun at "The majority of experts predict singularity will occur within our lifetime ".
I'm certainly hoping for rejuvenation biotech and artificial general intelligence in particular. And perhaps narrower AI that will really speed up rejuvenation biotech. I even donate to the SENS foundation.
Just didn't dig the kurzweilian tone here. Also the fact that there's a chance of indefinite lifespans in our lifetime should be a major reason to be very careful with surgery, not to live it up doing crazy surgeries and taking major risks.
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Just try to be f**king happy, exhaust all available options when it comes to surgery and accept the outcome and attempt to be at peace with it, because you've given it a shot. The majority of experts predict singularity will occur within our lifetime (depends on how old some of you are). Once that happens, it's any ones guess. Hello nanotech, hello advanced surgery, hello age reversal, hello lifelike 100% realistic simulations/virtual reality of our world/society at any time you pick.
That's my plan at least, gonna do what I can with available surgeries, accept that I've done all there is that could have been done and just live life, become knowledgeable and bide time until the singularity :)
(this is for those that are unhappy about aesthetic outcomes btw)
Nothing medical happens in just a few years. To be honest, most of the medical advancements we have had were around 40-50 years ago weren't they?
A lot of this stuff needs massive amount of approval and for things like aesthetic craniofacial procedures, it will take a long time to bring any tangible advancements.
Money is the limiting factor. Not just research, but consumers' money. Most people in even wealthy countries like the USA don't even have 5k to just spend.
If we can automate procedures where a surgeon can enter in certain parameters and a laser can precisely make an incision into the bone and make precise movements, then it will be a big step forwards. It won't cut down on the amount of education including med school etc. However, it will allow doctors to perform procedures on multiple patients at once which will allow them to feasibly lower their prices and everything else will come down.
And since it will all be automated, surgeon skill in performing these procedures won't even be part of the question. Their knowledge and expertise will still be important.
Maybe when I'm 32 instead of 22 I won't even care about dating/sex/relationships. But I will be able to reflect more on my sentiment that youth in the end is precious. And looks determine how people treat you. Even people of the same gender.
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Nothing medical happens in just a few years. To be honest, most of the medical advancements we have had were around 40-50 years ago weren't they?
A lot of this stuff needs massive amount of approval and for things like aesthetic craniofacial procedures, it will take a long time to bring any tangible advancements.
Money is the limiting factor. Not just research, but consumers' money. Most people in even wealthy countries like the USA don't even have 5k to just spend.
If we can automate procedures where a surgeon can enter in certain parameters and a laser can precisely make an incision into the bone and make precise movements, then it will be a big step forwards. It won't cut down on the amount of education including med school etc. However, it will allow doctors to perform procedures on multiple patients at once which will allow them to feasibly lower their prices and everything else will come down.
And since it will all be automated, surgeon skill in performing these procedures won't even be part of the question. Their knowledge and expertise will still be important.
Maybe when I'm 32 instead of 22 I won't even care about dating/sex/relationships. But I will be able to reflect more on my sentiment that youth in the end is precious. And looks determine how people treat you. Even people of the same gender.
If you're only 22 you're a lucky lucky person. Don't waste your time on this right now. You're right when you're 32 all of this will be way more advanced. Get really good at something society values during the next 10 years. Like get obsessed with that. Then worry about your looks later.
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If you're only 22 you're a lucky lucky person. Don't waste your time on this right now. You're right when you're 32 all of this will be way more advanced. Get really good at something society values during the next 10 years. Like get obsessed with that. Then worry about your looks later.
I've been on this for like 8 hours a day. Its really unhealthy. I think about my appearance and my romantic loneliness the moment I wake up. So yeah, you're right.
However, I'm not one of those guys from those particular forums who think that if one isn't a male model they are useless as a human being or romantically.
I'm legit one of those guys that girls said "eww" to about me when I was in my adolescence.
Also about your comment about when I'm 32 things will be more advanced. Actually I was saying the opposite with what I said at the start. That's what I think. I think that medical changes are slow and take lots of time to approve. And it takes time to train surgeons to account for them and learn.
What do you think though? You know more than I do and have procedures while I haven't had a single one yet. You did the research haha more than I have.
Also you're right. I have to focus on making sure that no matter what tech comes out, money won't be a limiting factor for me.
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Also about your comment about when I'm 32 things will be more advanced. Actually I was saying the opposite with what I said at the start. That's what I think. I think that medical changes are slow and take lots of time to approve. And it takes time to train surgeons to account for them and learn.
What do you think though? You know more than I do and have procedures while I haven't had a single one yet. You did the research haha more than I have.
Also you're right. I have to focus on making sure that no matter what tech comes out, money won't be a limiting factor for me.
It's great that I hear more and more people interested in future technologies. At the risk of sounding like a nutter again on here, I'll add a couple more thoughts on this.
It is true that certain technologies like biotech haven't evolved much in recent decades. In order for major advancements in this field to happen we really do need AI assistance, and this is just starting to really ramp up. Understanding biology and genetics is an incredibly complex problem, but also a perfect problem for advances in machine learning. In other words, probably not nearly as far off as some would expect (assuming you're modeling your predictions on past trends).
In the meantime, the fact that you have 8 hours a day just to think about your appearance tells me you're far more privileged than average. You're also young and have lots of time left in your life. Those that are truly suffering and deeply unhealthy should be the ones who benefit from these technologies first. After that, as long as society doesn't collapse, none of these advancements should be cost prohibitive to anyone. We'll see!
I'm not really judging you though - I've spent countless hours thinking about this stuff - and have probably been in the same boat as yourself. I do think one benefit though is learning the nature of entitlement and arrogance in our society, which we all have to learn to control. Everyone's lot in life is, at least mostly, a lottery...
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Good thread.
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It's great that I hear more and more people interested in future technologies. At the risk of sounding like a nutter again on here, I'll add a couple more thoughts on this.
It is true that certain technologies like biotech haven't evolved much in recent decades. In order for major advancements in this field to happen we really do need AI assistance, and this is just starting to really ramp up. Understanding biology and genetics is an incredibly complex problem, but also a perfect problem for advances in machine learning. In other words, probably not nearly as far off as some would expect (assuming you're modeling your predictions on past trends).
In the meantime, the fact that you have 8 hours a day just to think about your appearance tells me you're far more privileged than average. You're also young and have lots of time left in your life. Those that are truly suffering and deeply unhealthy should be the ones who benefit from these technologies first. After that, as long as society doesn't collapse, none of these advancements should be cost prohibitive to anyone. We'll see!
I'm not really judging you though - I've spent countless hours thinking about this stuff - and have probably been in the same boat as yourself. I do think one benefit though is learning the nature of entitlement and arrogance in our society, which we all have to learn to control. Everyone's lot in life is, at least mostly, a lottery...
I'm interested in future technologies since its really the only thing actually ugly people can hope to have a normal romantic life. As I've said before, I'm not one of those trolls from certain forums who believe that anybody who isn't a model is inherently lesser or deluded to think that anybody who isn't a model won't have good, stable, happy relationships. Or one of those who can have normal romantic relationships but are unhappy that they can't "slay."
AI assistance along with quantum computing will be what we need. If we can automate understanding biology and structure of cells and their interactions with each other, of course we can have massive strides.
Of course I'm basing my inherent hopelessness off historical trends. And its not looking good to me, unfortunately.
Also, yes. I'm quite economically privileged compared to most even in first world countries. Not rich, but def from an upper middle class background. I have time left in absolute terms. But I don't have much time for youth, youthful relationships, etc. I'm socially disadvantaged. I had girls say "eww, ForeverAloneDude" back in elementary and middle school. I hope these technologies won't be cost prohibitive to everyone. But I also hope that they exist. Maybe what lazlo told me is right. I should work from 22 to 32 on making as much money as I can so money won't be a limiting factor.
No matter what, if I look good at 30 or 40, I still won't be able to live a good life of my teens and 20s. And that hurts. I'vve always maintained that youth is the most precious aspect of life. Even college can be relatively careless. Everyone is young, full of energy, etc.
And I'm worried that even at 32, I do all this and we are at the same state as before.
Yes, I've learned a lot about society. About how people who have been born with better cards tell people (especially men) who don't to "shut up and deal with it" etc. it sucks. Many good looking people act like they have put effort into their romantic success. And that sucks. I wish society changed and accepted the reality of things. Maybe then, men wouldn't be ostricized for being a virgin etc.
I hear the "you can play your cards well even if you have very few." The problem is that I have none and cannot even enter the casino. :)
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I'm interested in future technologies since its really the only thing actually ugly people can hope to have a normal romantic life. As I've said before, I'm not one of those trolls from certain forums who believe that anybody who isn't a model is inherently lesser or deluded to think that anybody who isn't a model won't have good, stable, happy relationships. Or one of those who can have normal romantic relationships but are unhappy that they can't "slay."
AI assistance along with quantum computing will be what we need. If we can automate understanding biology and structure of cells and their interactions with each other, of course we can have massive strides.
Of course I'm basing my inherent hopelessness off historical trends. And its not looking good to me, unfortunately.
Also, yes. I'm quite economically privileged compared to most even in first world countries. Not rich, but def from an upper middle class background. I have time left in absolute terms. But I don't have much time for youth, youthful relationships, etc. I'm socially disadvantaged. I had girls say "eww, ForeverAloneDude" back in elementary and middle school. I hope these technologies won't be cost prohibitive to everyone. But I also hope that they exist. Maybe what lazlo told me is right. I should work from 22 to 32 on making as much money as I can so money won't be a limiting factor.
No matter what, if I look good at 30 or 40, I still won't be able to live a good life of my teens and 20s. And that hurts. I'vve always maintained that youth is the most precious aspect of life. Even college can be relatively careless. Everyone is young, full of energy, etc.
And I'm worried that even at 32, I do all this and we are at the same state as before.
Yes, I've learned a lot about society. About how people who have been born with better cards tell people (especially men) who don't to "shut up and deal with it" etc. it sucks. Many good looking people act like they have put effort into their romantic success. And that sucks. I wish society changed and accepted the reality of things. Maybe then, men wouldn't be ostricized for being a virgin etc.
I hear the "you can play your cards well even if you have very few." The problem is that I have none and cannot even enter the casino. :)
It's obvious that you are deeply wounded by your appearance, and that everything revolves around that. I don't know what your situation is exactly, but I can surmise a lot just based on this. I was a very unattractive teenager too, but still had a great youth. I had a big blank spot with sexual relationships - and this felt very bad, but I think it tends to dominate people's thoughts too much around this time. You aren't bed ridden are you? You don't enjoy doing things in your life? Your youth will certainly be the best time of your life, relationships or no.
Use that economic advantage, and not just for your appearance - my god. If I was in my early twenties right now, I may have ended up in the same profession, but AI (a tangential field to my own), seems really interesting. Companies like OpenAI do fellowships, get in there and innovate. It's a high demand field, but more than that, it's interesting work. Stimulate your brain and problem solve - in my early 30's I'm far more afraid of boring work than anything else haha.
That's good that you think about society. However, your comments about 'AI being good for ugly people' is just such a lame focus. Yeah, it can help with that, but it can also do a lot of good. Your focus on people who have it better than you shows that you haven't learned enough in my mind. Really? You think there aren't people who have it worse than you, who would love to have the opportunities you do? Why are you entitled to your imagined standards? Do you really think there are no females that would be with you if you worked on it? Or are you afraid they aren't what you want?
Think about this... yes, it would be wonderful if everyone had the same opportunities and could experience what they wanted, but it will take work - not just wishful thinking.
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It's obvious that you are deeply wounded by your appearance, and that everything revolves around that. I don't know what your situation is exactly, but I can surmise a lot just based on this. I was a very unattractive teenager too, but still had a great youth. I had a big blank spot with sexual relationships - and this felt very bad, but I think it tends to dominate people's thoughts too much around this time. You aren't bed ridden are you? You don't enjoy doing things in your life? Your youth will certainly be the best time of your life, relationships or no.
Use that economic advantage, and not just for your appearance - my god. If I was in my early twenties right now, I may have ended up in the same profession, but AI (a tangential field to my own), seems really interesting. Companies like OpenAI do fellowships, get in there and innovate. It's a high demand field, but more than that, it's interesting work. Stimulate your brain and problem solve - in my early 30's I'm far more afraid of boring work than anything else haha.
That's good that you think about society. However, your comments about 'AI being good for ugly people' is just such a lame focus. Yeah, it can help with that, but it can also do a lot of good. Your focus on people who have it better than you shows that you haven't learned enough in my mind. Really? You think there aren't people who have it worse than you, who would love to have the opportunities you do? Why are you entitled to your imagined standards? Do you really think there are no females that would be with you if you worked on it? Or are you afraid they aren't what you want?
Think about this... yes, it would be wonderful if everyone had the same opportunities and could experience what they wanted, but it will take work - not just wishful thinking.
My life revolves around my appearance since it is the main thing that is limiting me from getting a relationship and being happy. I'm not just unattractive as a teenager who is a late bloomer. My craniofacial structure is terrible. And I'm 5 foot 4 as a guy. I was never treated well by guys nor girls.
It wouldn't dominate my mind if I knew that at 30 I'd have great romantic/sexual relationships. Its the uncertainty that is painful and the fact that my youth is over. Honestly I feel like my life is over too. The true time where everyone has time and energy to have a wonderful free life in university is gone. I'll be in my 30s before I know it with no romantic experience and uglier than I already am. I'll live my life grinding my day out and going back and forth to work... alone. This isn't a fun life. Its torture. Literal torture. No matter how interesting the topic of discussion is.
You can't study things that interest you if you are hopeless and depressed. I go to circles with people in my situation, but most are just average looking average height guys who just don't try. Furthermore, hearing stories of people who are having healthy romantic/sex lives just make me want to put a gun to my head and pull the trigger since for me, getting a girl to be physically into me will never happen and I'll always miss out this key experience of life to be happy.
Seriously, getting a girl to go on a date with me is like going to freaking Mars for me. And that too, failure can happen afterwards since anything can screw it up. I'll always worry about the stability of my relationship because of my looks.
It may be a grass is greener on the other side thing with other people who have it economically worse than me, but even studies have shown that to make sure that people live well and live happy is to have a good friend circle and healthy romantic relationships. And even in economic hardships it allows people to live. It makes people work through that struggle of life.
I used to wonder why billionaires etc committed suicide when I was younger. I was too simplistic and money-centered historically. And I used to buy that nonsense fed to me that "your time will come and things will just happen."
How? 22 will be my supposed "peak" age of attractiveness. And I can't imagine how worse I'll look.
I know what you mean with finding girls who like nerdy guys and who nobody really likes. But they still have the prereq of wanting me to fit some standard. I fit nobody's standards. If there aren't facial standards, there will be standards for height standards, etc. It usually takes one thing to fit someone's physical standards for a person to be contempt. I got nothing.
And is it unreasonable for me to not want to date someone with kids? Why can't I enjoy the experience of carefree road trips with an SO etc having a lot of fun, etc. Kids will complicate things there. And at 22 I don't want kids of my own let alone someone else's kids especially when often I'll be the second priority in the relationship.
Being sexually attractive isn't work and effort. That's a myth. You either have the genetics to appeal to most, have some genetics to appeal to some people, or in the rare case appeal to basically nobody. And it sucks.
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It's obvious that you are deeply wounded by your appearance, and that everything revolves around that. I don't know what your situation is exactly, but I can surmise a lot just based on this. I was a very unattractive teenager too, but still had a great youth. I had a big blank spot with sexual relationships - and this felt very bad, but I think it tends to dominate people's thoughts too much around this time. You aren't bed ridden are you? You don't enjoy doing things in your life? Your youth will certainly be the best time of your life, relationships or no.
Use that economic advantage, and not just for your appearance - my god. If I was in my early twenties right now, I may have ended up in the same profession, but AI (a tangential field to my own), seems really interesting. Companies like OpenAI do fellowships, get in there and innovate. It's a high demand field, but more than that, it's interesting work. Stimulate your brain and problem solve - in my early 30's I'm far more afraid of boring work than anything else haha.
That's good that you think about society. However, your comments about 'AI being good for ugly people' is just such a lame focus. Yeah, it can help with that, but it can also do a lot of good. Your focus on people who have it better than you shows that you haven't learned enough in my mind. Really? You think there aren't people who have it worse than you, who would love to have the opportunities you do? Why are you entitled to your imagined standards? Do you really think there are no females that would be with you if you worked on it? Or are you afraid they aren't what you want?
Think about this... yes, it would be wonderful if everyone had the same opportunities and could experience what they wanted, but it will take work - not just wishful thinking.
Also I'm curious dude. When was your first romantic relationship? Was she into you physically? Did you have to throw away every standards you had?
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Good thread.
You spoke too soon. ;D ;D
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You spoke too soon. ;D ;D
I mean I'll stop since that's the message you're giving. But its safe to say we are making lots of assumptions if want to assume the future is bright.
Its pretty hard to just "try to be f**king happy" when there isn't much hope. That's like saying "cheer up" out of nowhere to someone who is depressed.
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I'm just assuming GJ will find it funny.
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I'm just assuming GJ will find it funny.
Yes, and sad. While looks make things easier for people, they aren't the end all. That people believe this is really unfortunate.
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Yes, and sad. While looks make things easier for people, they aren't the end all. That people believe this is really unfortunate.
One does not have to be a model, but they just have to be "good enough" where EVERYONE doesn't reject them off the basis of looks.
Also a person knows they are pretty bad looking when they have girls throughout elementary and middle school saying "eww" to their face. (taking about myself)
I know there are some forums where there are guys who are near-model even who call themselves "subhuman" since they have minor things like slight negative canthal tilt or a slightly long midface but otherwise excellent bone structure. I cringe at seeing those guys.
Or even average looking posters who have some obsession with sleeping with as many women who they can over having a long lasting LTR who say they are doomed since they are average looking.
I find their mindset unfortunate.
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I don't know what you look like, but if you look like most of the posters on here I think youre giving yourself too hard of a time. You should consider getting therapy. Most people I've seen post here don't look inherently bad. Are there some that would greatly benefit from surgery? Sure.
Kids say a lot of dumb s**t. I got picked on for wearing glasses, weight and called a wet back even though I was born in the US.
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One does not have to be a model, but they just have to be "good enough" where EVERYONE doesn't reject them off the basis of looks.
Also a person knows they are pretty bad looking when they have girls throughout elementary and middle school saying "eww" to their face. (taking about myself)
I know there are some forums where there are guys who are near-model even who call themselves "subhuman" since they have minor things like slight negative canthal tilt or a slightly long midface but otherwise excellent bone structure. I cringe at seeing those guys.
Or even average looking posters who have some obsession with sleeping with as many women who they can over having a long lasting LTR who say they are doomed since they are average looking.
I find their mindset unfortunate.
But unlike others who have reason to believe their looks are holding them back and who post PHOTOS in search of advice/feedback, you're not taking any action.
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I don't know what you look like, but if you look like most of the posters on here I think youre giving yourself too hard of a time. You should consider getting therapy. Most people I've seen post here don't look inherently bad. Are there some that would greatly benefit from surgery? Sure.
Kids say a lot of dumb s**t. I got picked on for wearing glasses, weight and called a wet back even though I was born in the US.
Were they people of the same gender? When people express that you are unattractive, its usually true. My height is objectively really bad too. Like really really bad.
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But unlike others who have reason to believe their looks are holding them back and who post PHOTOS in search of advice/feedback, you're not taking any action.
Fair point.
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Were they people of the same gender? When people express that you are unattractive, its usually true. My height is objectively really bad too. Like really really bad.
Bro you're 22 and you're talking about your experiences in grade school. That's a 10 year gap at minimum. And attractiveness is subjective. Not everyone likes the same thing. Some girls might not find me attractive, others will. My friends might like girls that I don't find attractive and vice versa.
I mean I posted here once before and one dude said my profile was "poor". I don't have a chiseled jawline or strong chin like men are "supposed to have". but that's never hindered my ability to talk to girls or socialize with people in general. Hell, when I was around your age I was so clueless about so many girls that took interest in me that I ended up losing out on a few opportunities back then. I don't "slay", but that's never been my thing. I've always been pretty laid back and mellow. As far as height goes, I'm not much taller than you (5'8) and even that doesn't hold me back. I still go on dates, but I'm not spending my days romanticizing as you seem to be. I have other things to keep me busy like work, going out etc. Looks are important sure, but they're not the end all be all. You also need to have some character. Who wants to just date a pretty face if they have no depth and character?
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for f**k's sake this was supposed to be about the future and medical innovations.
once again its become a piisspoor pity party for some clueless noob to life who is too afraid to go out and get s**t and wants to blame looks. Listen your only excuse would be if you were a man and you were like 5 feet or less than 5'5. Otherwise, save the SORT YOURSELF OUT!!!
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for f**k's sake this was supposed to be about the future and medical innovations.
once again its become a piisspoor pity party for some clueless noob to life who is too afraid to go out and get s**t and wants to blame looks. Listen your only excuse would be if you were a man and you were like 5 feet or less than 5'5. Otherwise, save the SORT YOURSELF OUT!!!
He mentioned being 5'4...
ForeverAloneDude, if you're caucasian, do everything you can to move to Asia, I suppose. I don't get why people here are s**tting on your for your posts that are entirely reasonable. Latin America would be another decent option, maybe even Africa. Do everything to leverage your race and financial position romantically. Women in these places are higher quality anyway, little point trying with western girls. I do well with western girls sexually if I want(I have a height disadvantage too but a decent face and my height issue isn't as severe) but haven't met a single one I'd consider a serious partner in my entire life, in a few weeks in Latin America I meet multiple. My treatment by the ladies has completely turned around as I improved my appearance(which I could to a substantial degree nonsurgically due to decent craniofacial development), I can tell much of my perceived character is in my appearance, even to some of the least shallow girls that I've known for a longer time. I think your concerns are entirely valid and don't deserve to be mocked by the people here.
Also consider getting into excellent shape through strength training, if you're in a country where your height isn't out of the ordinary and you're in great shape, you may find some women have genuine sexual attraction to you despite a bad face(just assuming your reports of your face are accurate).
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for f**k's sake this was supposed to be about the future and medical innovations.
once again its become a piisspoor pity party for some clueless noob to life who is too afraid to go out and get s**t and wants to blame looks. Listen your only excuse would be if you were a man and you were like 5 feet or less than 5'5. Otherwise, save the SORT YOURSELF OUT!!!
I'm less than 5'5" :)
>5'4"
My face is disgusting too. I have my reasons.
Literally my only hope is either being lucky or technology improves enough. Else I have no reason to move on too many years forwards with life.
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He mentioned being 5'4...
ForeverAloneDude, if you're caucasian, do everything you can to move to Asia, I suppose. I don't get why people here are s**tting on your for your posts that are entirely reasonable. Latin America would be another decent option, maybe even Africa. Do everything to leverage your race and financial position romantically. Women in these places are higher quality anyway, little point trying with western girls. I do well with western girls sexually if I want(I have a height disadvantage too but a decent face and my height issue isn't as severe) but haven't met a single one I'd consider a serious partner in my entire life, in a few weeks in Latin America I meet multiple. My treatment by the ladies has completely turned around as I improved my appearance(which I could to a substantial degree nonsurgically due to decent craniofacial development), I can tell much of my perceived character is in my appearance, even to some of the least shallow girls that I've known for a longer time. I think your concerns are entirely valid and don't deserve to be mocked by the people here.
Also consider getting into excellent shape through strength training, if you're in a country where your height isn't out of the ordinary and you're in great shape, you may find some women have genuine sexual attraction to you despite a bad face(just assuming your reports of your face are accurate).
"you may find some women have genuine sexual attraction to you despite a bad face"
How? Just via strength training?
People mock me because some here are probably just average looking and average height. They just don't get it. Also, no I am not Caucasian.
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"you may find some women have genuine sexual attraction to you despite a bad face"
How? Just via strength training?
People mock me because some here are probably just average looking and average height. They just don't get it. Also, no I am not Caucasian.
Yes, top tier body composition may give make a small subset of women palpably physically attracted to you just for that. Shame you're not Caucasian, the race card is powerful.
Serious strength training is definitely a must if you want to have a shot.
https://www.instagram.com/muscleforlifefitness/?hl=nl
This guy is near the top of what's naturally achievable for most guys(iirc his ffmi is 24), you'd look a lot fuller at your height though. A top 0.something% physique like that would definitely attract some ladies who have a disproportionate focus on that.
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Yes, top tier body composition may give make a small subset of women palpably physically attracted to you just for that. Shame you're not Caucasian, the race card is powerful.
Serious strength training is definitely a must if you want to have a shot.
https://www.instagram.com/muscleforlifefitness/?hl=nl
This guy is near the top of what's naturally achievable for most guys(iirc his ffmi is 24), you'd look a lot fuller at your height though. A top 0.something% physique like that would definitely attract some ladies who have a disproportionate focus on that.
Ah nice. How short is he?
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OP no amount of external modifications is going to help you in the long run if you're an emotional mess. You have to work on yourself internally. The way jilkster talks, he makes it sound like all women are the same and are into the same thing. Some people are shallow. Men aren't an exception.
I'm pretty skinny, Hispanic and average looking. Based on his criteria I already have two things going against me yet I still go on dates with girls within and outside my ethnicity. I also live in a pretty liberal area so maybe that helps. I don't know.
Meeting women isn't the sole focus or my life. It shouldn't be yours either. I have other interests and hobbies and so should you.
You say you're not one or those guys from "other websites" yet you sound like one. Jilkster's comments here come off as those I've read on other forums I found recently like sluthate or Lookism. I kinda regret going on those forums because they're an example of how shallow and vile some people can be. The people there have a skewed look on life.
You're 22. Youre young but also an adult. Focus on yourself first and live a little.
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OP no amount of external modifications is going to help you in the long run if you're an emotional mess. You have to work on yourself internally. The way jilkster talks, he makes it sound like all women are the same and are into the same thing. Some people are shallow. Men aren't an exception.
I'm pretty skinny, Hispanic and average looking. Based on his criteria I already have two things going against me yet I still go on dates with girls within and outside my ethnicity. I also live in a pretty liberal area so maybe that helps. I don't know.
Meeting women isn't the sole focus or my life. It shouldn't be yours either. I have other interests and hobbies and so should you.
You say you're not one or those guys from "other websites" yet you sound like one. Jilkster's comments here come off as those I've read on other forums I found recently like sluthate or Lookism. I kinda regret going on those forums because they're an example of how shallow and vile some people can be. The people there have a skewed look on life.
You're 22. Youre young but also an adult. Focus on yourself first and live a little.
Key word: average
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Key word: average
I'm sorry. I guess since not qualified to give any advice since I'm an average guy with some life experience lmao. Alright well good luck fam 👌
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Okay 5'4 is not terrible either. I meant like a lot less than 5'5 --anyway you're fine. There are some women who say they won't date anyone less than 6'2 and then end up with guys who are 5'7.
Trust me all of this is bulls**t. The truth is, you have to develop your mind. Also at 22 you should be focussing on massive career excellence so at 32 you can afford anything.
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There are some women who say they won't date anyone less than 6'2 and then end up with guys who are 5'7.
Yeah, I mean every woman starts with Clooney as their benchmark, but reality sets in and they wind up dating dudes like us. Totally normal and that's how life works.
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Okay 5'4 is not terrible either. I meant like a lot less than 5'5 --anyway you're fine. There are some women who say they won't date anyone less than 6'2 and then end up with guys who are 5'7.
Trust me all of this is bulls**t. The truth is, you have to develop your mind. Also at 22 you should be focussing on massive career excellence so at 32 you can afford anything.
5'4" should be ok if my face wasn't so bad. :/
That's what I'm doing man. (career)
Its not easy to develop one's mind in my situation. Its the uncertainty that is killing me. If I knew that I'd get a gf by x age, then I'd be at peace.
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Yeah, I mean every woman starts with Clooney as their benchmark, but reality sets in and they wind up dating dudes like us. Totally normal and that's how life works.
But usually that happens by the time a person is like 18 (reality setting in for women) and guys like us end up getting a gf by the end of college.
Maybe I should look forwards to leaving a very Engineering-centered college with wayyy more men than women and move to NYC or something...
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5'4" should be ok if my face wasn't so bad. :/
That's what I'm doing man. (career)
Its not easy to develop one's mind in my situation. Its the uncertainty that is killing me. If I knew that I'd get a gf by x age, then I'd be at peace.
I could tell you the secret to solving this. But you probably won't have the discipline to follow through. Find the nearest S. N. Goenka Vipassana institute and go for a 10 day retreat (its free) where you will learn Vipassana meditation. For example if you are in california there are two options north and south. You have to become a serious buddhist and meditate daily. After several weeks you will learn that uncertainty is an illusion and you will live comfortably in the present. But don't pursue this as a goal. First absorb yourself in the teachings and learn the supreme discipline to do the practice regularly. Here's one example. This is a science, not religion. Find the nearest one to wherever you live there's one everywhere. Oh and it will help you in ever other aspect of your life: career, focus, intimate relationships, confidence etc. etc. Make sure it is a Goenka centre. Just google vipassana and goenka and you'll find a centre near you. Its the most advanced method of meditation and I have studied them all.
http://www.vaddhana.dhamma.org/
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I could tell you the secret to solving this. But you probably won't have the discipline to follow through. Find the nearest S. N. Goenka Vipassana institute and go for a 10 day retreat (its free) where you will learn Vipassana meditation. For example if you are in california there are two options north and south. You have to become a serious buddhist and meditate daily. After several weeks you will learn that uncertainty is an illusion and you will live comfortably in the present. But don't pursue this as a goal. First absorb yourself in the teachings and learn the supreme discipline to do the practice regularly. Here's one example. This is a science, not religion. Find the nearest one to wherever you live there's one everywhere. Oh and it will help you in ever other aspect of your life: career, focus, intimate relationships, confidence etc. etc. Make sure it is a Goenka centre. Just google vipassana and goenka and you'll find a centre near you. Its the most advanced method of meditation and I have studied them all.
http://www.vaddhana.dhamma.org/
Maybe.
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Okay 5'4 is not terrible either. I meant like a lot less than 5'5 --anyway you're fine. There are some women who say they won't date anyone less than 6'2 and then end up with guys who are 5'7.
Trust me all of this is bulls**t. The truth is, you have to develop your mind. Also at 22 you should be focussing on massive career excellence so at 32 you can afford anything.
I knew an attractive woman who was 5'7" and "never dated men less than 6'4"" before meeting her 5'7" husband.
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I knew an attractive woman who was 5'7" and "never dated men less than 6'4"" before meeting her 5'7" husband.
Yeah my height is just a compound issue to my face.
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Consider a sanity check in the form of dating apps (if you live in a big city). Some people here may be surprised how warped some of their self-images are when they get a few matches that aren't far and away below their standards. Also a well groomed short beard, if you have the minimum density to pull it off. I too was the ugly kid in school but (albeit after a nose and chin job - didn't bother before then) am getting matches with as high as 5-7's on my standards 'scale'. I'm 5'10", skinny fat, balding, and a potatoe head, with jaws like a pray mantis. And white >_>.
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Consider a sanity check in the form of dating apps (if you live in a big city). Some people here may be surprised how warped some of their self-images are when they get a few matches that aren't far and away below their standards. Also a well groomed short beard, if you have the minimum density to pull it off. I too was the ugly kid in school but (albeit after a nose and chin job - didn't bother before then) am getting matches with as high as 5-7's on my standards 'scale'. I'm 5'10", skinny fat, balding, and a potatoe head, with jaws like a pray mantis. And white >_>.
Very weird advice. Women are far pickier on these apps than in real life. They get hundreds of matches and are very likely to ignore you. If you actually do well of them, you are in the upper 20% of males(at least based on pics) minimum.
I have done experiments and many men can't get a single match on them, normal looking guys who could get women irl. Women are very racially selective on them too. Dating apps are a terrible deal for men. I have run too many experiments with them, and read too many stats to believe they remotely reflective real life sexual market dynamics. Definitely far from a "sanity check", imo.
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It can depend a bit on the app too. Some work better than others. This has just been my experience, and I'm definitely not in the upper 20% or getting more than 1-2 matches every 2 weeks. I'll grant myself a smidge above ugly by what I think are average people standards. My short ethnic friends near me are getting nearly no luck at all. So maybe YMMV and you'd be surprised by your individual results.
ETA: I didn't think we were talking about people who already know they can date girls offline. That's not the intended audience of this thread, or so I thought.
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It can depend a bit on the app too. Some work better than others. This has just been my experience, and I'm definitely not in the upper 20% or getting more than 1-2 matches every 2 weeks. I'll grant myself a smidge above ugly by what I think are average people standards. My short ethnic friends near me are getting nearly no luck at all. So maybe YMMV and you'd be surprised by your individual results.
ETA: I didn't think we were talking about people who already know they can date girls offline. That's not the intended audience of this thread, or so I thought.
Getting that few matches means way over 99%, likely 99.9% of females rejected your profile, nice "sanity check". When I was in a location where my sexual market value was high locally I got over 1000 matches in 2 days, that's what happens when most females like you, the algorithms label you as high value and your success is explosive. In Western countries I still get a bunch daily and over 80% will ignore me no matter how witty my lines, because of the attention excess they already have. Then they tend to still be really flaky about meeting up on top of it, because they have 10 hotter dudes chasing them at the same time. Online dating is a great way of leaving you feeling like you are worthless as a male if you're not in the upper 0.5% of looks, not exactly the advice he needs imo.
Knowing not even 1 in a 1000 women liked your profile. Out of those 1 in 1000 them most likely ignoring you from the start. If not, them most likely ghosting on your soon after. If not, them most likely flaking on meeting you. If not, them most likely not retaining interest after meeting you.
Meanwhile mister super handsome got 500 matches, who are all actively messaging him, trying to meet him. Morbidly obese 40 year olds getting decent matchrates with above average 25 year old males who are interested in meeting them out of desperation.
That's the reality of online dating.
Have you got some dates off it that led to anything ongoing? I wouldn't be surprised if that occasionally worked out for you, but knowing the poverty you are in compared to handsome guys and women of any looks level and age, is not great for your mental health.
Regarding "short ethnic people", I know multiple who can't get a match on these apps but do fine in real life meeting women. If you're of certain races, you need to be even higher in looks to do well on them.
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Get a career where women outnumber men. Like a doctor in a hospital. Hell, I know a guy who's perpetually broke and dates 3 girls a week... He's a flight attendant. Whatever you do do, don't become an engineer. A penniless unemployed archeologist has more social standing than a rich nerd.
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Looks are everything, if you don't get a girl you are not good looking enough.
No need to cope with bulls**t (oh I am too shy..)
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Looks are everything, if you don't get a girl you are not good looking enough.
No need to cope with bulls**t (oh I am too shy..)
I'd say that's not accurate. They are, however, more important than the dominant cultural narrative suggests, in the western world.
Many other qualities are attractive, but they are often also not qualities that the dominant narrative claims are the important ones.
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Looks are everything, if you don't get a girl you are not good looking enough.
No need to cope with bulls**t (oh I am too shy..)
+1
And what people don't accept that when women end up dating guys in their 30s while ignoring them earlier, they're settling for a man who they know won't cheat etc because he can't and that they can control.
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I'd say that's not accurate. They are, however, more important than the dominant cultural narrative suggests, in the western world.
Many other qualities are attractive, but they are often also not qualities that the dominant narrative claims are the important ones.
No other qualities are attractive aside from being actually physically attractive.
If money and other things are a reason why a girl is marrying you, its not for you.
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Also you seem to be knowledgeable about future technologies. What will be the difference in craniofacial procedures when I am 32 vs now at 22.
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No other qualities are attractive aside from being actually physically attractive.
If money and other things are a reason why a girl is marrying you, its not for you.
No, various behavioral traits are attractive to women. Dominance, emotional stability, wittiness. These things actually really matter in practice. Let me tell you that after extensive experience with women, various behavioral patterns as a result of shifts in health and various looks levels. These behavioral traits can't compensate if looks are below a certain level, but you can win from a better looking dude as a result of them, if you are both above the threshold.
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The 3 dimensions of importance when it comes to love/sex:
1. Looks
2. Behaviour
3. Opportunity
That Looks are much more important is proofed by various scientific studies and widely accepted.
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No, various behavioral traits are attractive to women. Dominance, emotional stability, wittiness. These things actually really matter in practice. Let me tell you that after extensive experience with women, various behavioral patterns as a result of shifts in health and various looks levels. These behavioral traits can't compensate if looks are below a certain level, but you can win from a better looking dude as a result of them, if you are both above the threshold.
A lot of what you say and do is just interpreted differently in the sexual marketplace. When a man or woman is good looking, even the smallest things that they say will invoke a person of the opposite sex to giggle and automatically positively interpret the statements.
I guess hitting a threshold matters. And for what its worth, I don't.
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The 3 dimensions of importance when it comes to love/sex:
1. Looks
2. Behaviour
3. Opportunity
That Looks are much more important is proofed by various scientific studies and widely accepted.
Hell even looks affect your behavior and how you date along with opportunity. You can be confident and casual about asking a girl out when you know she will actually have positive signals back.
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I did have a date that went into "ongoing", but my poor mental health (from looks and other reasons early in life) has left me pretty dateless in general, technically by my own doing (not really pursuing matches, etc.). But you don't need to be swimming in matches, going on dozens of dates a month. I've had many respond to my basic messages, and even a small few to message me first. One can still settle on getting 1-4 dates a month over nothing, and even date close to or within your standard (from my xp). Thanks to the apps, you find the few in the haystack that aren't that bad looking at all and are also superficially interested in you. Yes this could be considered 'coping' while you wait for this supposed bright future. But that's not how you help your mental health. An important aspect of mental health is acceptance and learning how to work with what you have. I actually thought my matching situation wasn't quite so garbage, until you pointed out the odds I'm working with. But you take what you can get (within your tolerance thresholds), knowing many people can't even date at all. Functional psychology.
Lol I don't think all engineers are boned, but unfortunately yes they may have it harder if their personality and looks aren't a glaring bright spot.
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I did have a date that went into "ongoing", but my poor mental health (from looks and other reasons early in life) has left me pretty dateless in general, technically by my own doing (not really pursuing matches, etc.). But you don't need to be swimming in matches, going on dozens of dates a month. I've had many respond to my basic messages, and even a small few to message me first. One can still settle on getting 1-4 dates a month over nothing, and even date close to or within your standard (from my xp). Thanks to the apps, you find the few in the haystack that aren't that bad looking at all and are also superficially interested in you. Yes this could be considered 'coping' while you wait for this supposed bright future. But that's not how you help your mental health. An important aspect of mental health is acceptance and learning how to work with what you have. I actually thought my matching situation wasn't quite so garbage, until you pointed out the odds I'm working with. But you take what you can get (within your tolerance thresholds), knowing many people can't even date at all. Functional psychology.
Lol I don't think all engineers are boned, but unfortunately yes they may have it harder if their personality and looks aren't a glaring bright spot.
You got to be kidding me...
Only if you are good looking, you get any matches. If you look bad, you can swipe through entire stacks of people and get nothing.
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No, I'm not. Patience is a virtue, but being short and ethnic I agree could make the odds even worse than my 1 in 10,000 or whatever.
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No, I'm not. Patience is a virtue, but being short and ethnic I agree could make the odds even worse than my 1 in 10,000 or whatever.
Yes and one would be dead eventually from old age before something actually works out.
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Come on dude. Piss or get off the pot. There could be something about your face that could be fixed with some maxfax surgery. Maybe not entirely but enough to have a framework close enough to the norm to plaster some plastic over it to mitigate some of your appearance problems.
Unless you post a photo where there's a chance you could get feedback that lead to some things to do to improve, there's no chance that you will ever know if you have the chance of improving via surgery.
By not taking the chance of posting your photos to find out what your chances are, you're CHOOSING to remain forever hopeless.
Also, if you're short, ethnic AND homely, you DON'T want to go on something like Tinder or any other dating app where you can assume the women are going to be wanting good looking guys.
Instead, put in an ad somewhere saying: 'Short, ethnic, homely ______ (fill in blank with your profession or study major if a student) looking for fun.'
I know a guy who put in a personal ad in the 'alternative lifestyle' section saying: 'FAT, BALD lawyer looking for fun.' He got a LOT of responses from really attractive women who had a fetish for fat, bald lawyers.
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Come on dude. Piss or get off the pot. There could be something about your face that could be fixed with some maxfax surgery. Maybe not entirely but enough to have a framework close enough to the norm to plaster some plastic over it to mitigate some of your appearance problems.
Unless you post a photo where there's a chance you could get feedback that lead to some things to do to improve, there's no chance that you will ever know if you have the chance of improving via surgery.
By not taking the chance of posting your photos to find out what your chances are, you're CHOOSING to remain forever hopeless.
Also, if you're short, ethnic AND homely, you DON'T want to go on something like Tinder or any other dating app where you can assume the women are going to be wanting good looking guys.
Instead, put in an ad somewhere saying: 'Short, ethnic, homely ______ (fill in blank with your profession or study major if a student) looking for fun.'
I know a guy who put in a personal ad in the 'alternative lifestyle' section saying: 'FAT, BALD lawyer looking for fun.' He got a LOT of responses from really attractive women who had a fetish for fat, bald lawyers.
Lol chasing people with fetishes haha.
But yeah I got the message.
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What's your personality like now? Are you annoying? Socially awkward?
I'm torn between telling you to snap the f**k out of it because time IS short, and before you know it you actually will be 30 - to also knowing how hard it is to change your mindset when everything around you seems to reinforce your negative feelings. I felt the same way as you in my mid-20's and now I'm in my 30's alone AND female (HELLO TIMECLOCK). It's been a self-fulfilling prophecy really because I don't think I'm worth much, so I went through years where I didn't even bother (who would like me, etc). The way I feel about myself creates a filter and I see everything through it, and I've become so aware of it that I'm awkward and guarded as a result. I've blamed my looks, but at the end of the day I can transform myself (makeup, hair extensions, eyelash extensions, tan, heels etc) and look good - but underneath it all I'm still me, and that seems to be the problem.
I'm fine personality wise. Nothing out of the ordinary.
Eh I think the mythical drop in attractiveness when a woman hits her 30s if basically just a myth. Yes, things like wrinkles etc and breaking down of bone happens, but its exaggerated by unattractive men who want to make themselves feel better. (since you mentioned timeclock)
You said you're in your 30s and alone. Did you have some success with at least going on dates etc?
Yeah I wish men could wear makeup haha.
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I'm fine personality wise. Nothing out of the ordinary.
If you don't have a legitimate dentofacial deformity, don't waste your time researching jaw surgery and get into medical school. Medicine is not hard at all. In fact, most of it is borderline quackery. All you need is stamina and a good memory. Intelligence is optional.
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What's your personality like now? Are you annoying? Socially awkward?
I'm torn between telling you to snap the f**k out of it because time IS short, and before you know it you actually will be 30 - to also knowing how hard it is to change your mindset when everything around you seems to reinforce your negative feelings. I felt the same way as you in my mid-20's and now I'm in my 30's alone AND female (HELLO TIMECLOCK). It's been a self-fulfilling prophecy really because I don't think I'm worth much, so I went through years where I didn't even bother (who would like me, etc). The way I feel about myself creates a filter and I see everything through it, and I've become so aware of it that I'm awkward and guarded as a result. I've blamed my looks, but at the end of the day I can transform myself (makeup, hair extensions, eyelash extensions, tan, heels etc) and look good - but underneath it all I'm still me, and that seems to be the problem.
It's all about supply and demand. Join a club where men outnumber women. One woman I know found her husband in a mountaineering club. AFAIR, she was the only woman in that club... and now that I recollect I think she was a class II deep bite, borderline short face syndrome.
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If you don't have a legitimate dentofacial deformity, don't waste your time researching jaw surgery and get into medical school. Medicine is not hard at all. In fact, most of it is borderline quackery. All you need is stamina and a good memory. Intelligence is optional.
You forgot the other requirements for getting into med school such as having a pushy mother saying: 'be a doctor be a doctor and make money', sabotaging your classmates lab experiments, paying off janitors (who clean the offices at night) to acquire a copy of the midterm exams and sexual favors if you're a female. I don't know about all med schools but these were some of the extra requirements at MIT for getting into Harvard med.
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If you don't have a legitimate dentofacial deformity, don't waste your time researching jaw surgery and get into medical school. Medicine is not hard at all. In fact, most of it is borderline quackery. All you need is stamina and a good memory. Intelligence is optional.
Isn't that what I was complaining about? The technology just isn't there. I'll always be sexually repulsive.
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rather than just wait for a singularity, id rather exhaust all options under the sun to get back my face and my life, and my speech if possible. max fac , implants, etc. i dont even see an issue with LL, i frequent a forum regarding that specifically and am p sure ill end up getting bifemoral LL aimed at 3-3.2 in, internal fixation. regarding genitalia, aside from things like traction devices and pmma, there is chem pe involving the injection of caverject and human grade relaxin. hell, a russian man i speak to tells me if im willing to give up endogenously produced erections, i can get some procedure done that basically guarantees 1 in gain in bpel, he spends 24/7 on a forum for genital surgery.
just identify all the issues u have or things u dont like and learn all u can about them and whats possible to augment them.
if we r talking about futuristic stuff at least id want to touch on whats possible in theory but not feasible at this time... implanting new growth plates, editing the androgen receptors in ur penile tissue, and possibly (havent read nearly enough about this) altering sclero levels , then just applying massive internal force plus using copious amounts of hgh and trenbolone along with some transdermal gel for the penis with androgens, such as dht gel.
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rather than just wait for a singularity, id rather exhaust all options under the sun to get back my face and my life, and my speech if possible. max fac , implants, etc. i dont even see an issue with LL, i frequent a forum regarding that specifically and am p sure ill end up getting bifemoral LL aimed at 3-3.2 in, internal fixation. regarding genitalia, aside from things like traction devices and pmma, there is chem pe involving the injection of caverject and human grade relaxin. hell, a russian man i speak to tells me if im willing to give up endogenously produced erections, i can get some procedure done that basically guarantees 1 in gain in bpel, he spends 24/7 on a forum for genital surgery.
just identify all the issues u have or things u dont like and learn all u can about them and whats possible to augment them.
if we r talking about futuristic stuff at least id want to touch on whats possible in theory but not feasible at this time... implanting new growth plates, editing the androgen receptors in ur penile tissue, and possibly (havent read nearly enough about this) altering sclero levels , then just applying massive internal force plus using copious amounts of hgh and trenbolone along with some transdermal gel for the penis with androgens, such as dht gel.
i mean some of those last things sound interesting. i wonder if they'll be here within 10 years?
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My life revolves around my appearance since it is the main thing that is limiting me from getting a relationship and being happy. I'm not just unattractive as a teenager who is a late bloomer. My craniofacial structure is terrible. And I'm 5 foot 4 as a guy. I was never treated well by guys nor girls.
It wouldn't dominate my mind if I knew that at 30 I'd have great romantic/sexual relationships. Its the uncertainty that is painful and the fact that my youth is over. Honestly I feel like my life is over too. The true time where everyone has time and energy to have a wonderful free life in university is gone. I'll be in my 30s before I know it with no romantic experience and uglier than I already am. I'll live my life grinding my day out and going back and forth to work... alone. This isn't a fun life. Its torture. Literal torture. No matter how interesting the topic of discussion is.
You can't study things that interest you if you are hopeless and depressed. I go to circles with people in my situation, but most are just average looking average height guys who just don't try. Furthermore, hearing stories of people who are having healthy romantic/sex lives just make me want to put a gun to my head and pull the trigger since for me, getting a girl to be physically into me will never happen and I'll always miss out this key experience of life to be happy.
Seriously, getting a girl to go on a date with me is like going to freaking Mars for me. And that too, failure can happen afterwards since anything can screw it up. I'll always worry about the stability of my relationship because of my looks.
It may be a grass is greener on the other side thing with other people who have it economically worse than me, but even studies have shown that to make sure that people live well and live happy is to have a good friend circle and healthy romantic relationships. And even in economic hardships it allows people to live. It makes people work through that struggle of life.
I used to wonder why billionaires etc committed suicide when I was younger. I was too simplistic and money-centered historically. And I used to buy that nonsense fed to me that "your time will come and things will just happen."
How? 22 will be my supposed "peak" age of attractiveness. And I can't imagine how worse I'll look.
I know what you mean with finding girls who like nerdy guys and who nobody really likes. But they still have the prereq of wanting me to fit some standard. I fit nobody's standards. If there aren't facial standards, there will be standards for height standards, etc. It usually takes one thing to fit someone's physical standards for a person to be contempt. I got nothing.
And is it unreasonable for me to not want to date someone with kids? Why can't I enjoy the experience of carefree road trips with an SO etc having a lot of fun, etc. Kids will complicate things there. And at 22 I don't want kids of my own let alone someone else's kids especially when often I'll be the second priority in the relationship.
Being sexually attractive isn't work and effort. That's a myth. You either have the genetics to appeal to most, have some genetics to appeal to some people, or in the rare case appeal to basically nobody. And it sucks.
Sorry to revive this thread, but.. ForeverAloneDude, and I just give you a big hug? I'll tell you what, I've been considered a pretty lady (Ok, this is before surgery -- my current post-surgery face is keeping me humble, but it's brought me here!) and was sought after by many men in my teens, 20s, 30s. My most long-lasting relationship, however, was 18 years with a guy that wasn't necessarily considered traditionally "attractive" by whatever body and facial measurements people use. But he was THE HOTTEST thing to me because he was kind, caring, compassionate, creative, and put all his energy into making life feel like pure magic to me. I know for a fact that he, too, had some serious self esteem issues because of how he perceived himself, but f**k it. f**k aesthetic standards. You do you, and do it the best you can. Make your life pure magic and you'll be IRRESISTIBLE to even the hottest ladies.
We've since parted ways, but when I tell friends my physical "type" they're confused.. because it isn't anyone else's "type". But when you fall in love with someone I guarantee you they're going to love the way you look because it looks like YOU.
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If you don't have a legitimate dentofacial deformity, don't waste your time researching jaw surgery and get into medical school. Medicine is not hard at all. In fact, most of it is borderline quackery. All you need is stamina and a good memory. Intelligence is optional.
LOL
I think you nailed it.
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I'm interested in future technologies since its really the only thing actually ugly people can hope to have a normal romantic life. As I've said before, I'm not one of those trolls from certain forums who believe that anybody who isn't a model is inherently lesser or deluded to think that anybody who isn't a model won't have good, stable, happy relationships. Or one of those who can have normal romantic relationships but are unhappy that they can't "slay."
AI assistance along with quantum computing will be what we need. If we can automate understanding biology and structure of cells and their interactions with each other, of course we can have massive strides.
Of course I'm basing my inherent hopelessness off historical trends. And its not looking good to me, unfortunately.
Also, yes. I'm quite economically privileged compared to most even in first world countries. Not rich, but def from an upper middle class background. I have time left in absolute terms. But I don't have much time for youth, youthful relationships, etc. I'm socially disadvantaged. I had girls say "eww, ForeverAloneDude" back in elementary and middle school. I hope these technologies won't be cost prohibitive to everyone. But I also hope that they exist. Maybe what lazlo told me is right. I should work from 22 to 32 on making as much money as I can so money won't be a limiting factor.
No matter what, if I look good at 30 or 40, I still won't be able to live a good life of my teens and 20s. And that hurts. I'vve always maintained that youth is the most precious aspect of life. Even college can be relatively careless. Everyone is young, full of energy, etc.
And I'm worried that even at 32, I do all this and we are at the same state as before.
Yes, I've learned a lot about society. About how people who have been born with better cards tell people (especially men) who don't to "shut up and deal with it" etc. it sucks. Many good looking people act like they have put effort into their romantic success. And that sucks. I wish society changed and accepted the reality of things. Maybe then, men wouldn't be ostricized for being a virgin etc.
I hear the "you can play your cards well even if you have very few." The problem is that I have none and cannot even enter the casino. :)
Also, though, I met that guy on the internet circa 2000, and after months saw his picture and just thought "you're the most beautiful thing in the universe".
You could EASILY replicate that vibe with one of those Russian wife websites. Just saying.
Some Russian wife is going to love the s**t out of you.
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damn this thread really makes you feel like s**t :-\
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damn this thread really makes you feel like s**t :-\
LOL Oh, come on.
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All I'm saying is whatever bs Lookism is spoon feeding you is garbage.
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I can't stand that site, but the concept of lookism itself is not garbage lol. Neither are the 'objective' measurements of attractiveness. What's garbage is the idea that one has to be PERFECT in order to have any chance in life, this is obviously false.
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Ignoring reality is the WORST thing you can do when trying to console someone, it doesn't matter if this is online or not. If you paint a fairytale scene for someone just to temporarily cheer them up it sets them up perfectly to fall again & fall further the next time they face some hardship.
The only difference is every time someone does this, they grow more & more convinced that everyone else is a liar which can be really dangerous if they suffer from a MD of any kind.
Not bashing anyone, just observing.
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Ignoring reality is the WORST thing you can do when trying to console someone, it doesn't matter if this is online or not. If you paint a fairytale scene for someone just to temporarily cheer them up it sets them up perfectly to fall again & fall further the next time they face some hardship.
The only difference is every time someone does this, they grow more & more convinced that everyone else is a liar which can be really dangerous if they suffer from a MD of any kind.
Not bashing anyone, just observing.
Oh it's no fairytale. Just the other day I was at the beach and this lerpy looking waif of a logger-man saunters by with what was an obvious mail-order bride megababe. He looked like he had just crawled out of a cave somewhere, torn up jean overalls and a huge dip in his cheek, I can't even believe he knows how to use the internet but bygolly he did it! And all I could think was 'That lucky sonofab*tch, he is getting the freshest borscht and dumplings every single night! The world is a good place!'. And she was just smiling and laughing at all his jokes, and you know why? Cause that Lurch-looking man was her knight in shining armor and she thought he was a BABE.
So there you have it. IRL.
Also, I can only speak for myself AND EVERY OTHER GIRL I KNOW, but the only thing worse than a meathead with a thick neck (swoll neck?) is a dude who's jealous of a meathead with a thick neck.
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Oh it's no fairytale. Just the other day I was at the beach and this lerpy looking waif of a logger-man saunters by with what was an obvious mail-order bride megababe. He looked like he had just crawled out of a cave somewhere, torn up jean overalls and a huge dip in his cheek, I can't even believe he knows how to use the internet but bygolly he did it! And all I could think was 'That lucky sonofab*tch, he is getting the freshest borscht and dumplings every single night! The world is a good place!'. And she was just smiling and laughing at all his jokes, and you know why? Cause that Lurch-looking man was her knight in shining armor and she thought he was a BABE.
So there you have it. IRL.
Also, I can only speak for myself AND EVERY OTHER GIRL I KNOW, but the only thing worse than a meathead with a thick neck (swoll neck?) is a dude who's jealous of a meathead with a thick neck.
Real talk. I date outside my league and have a s**tty jaw and thin neck.
Funny, smart, interesting > looks. I think it compounds, too. Like if a girl sees you with an attractive girl she is more attracted to you...or at least intrigued. It compounds the other way for mopers who stair in the mirror, too.
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Real talk. I date outside my league and have a s**tty jaw and thin neck.
Funny, smart, interesting > looks. I think it compounds, too. Like if a girl sees you with an attractive girl she is more attracted to you...or at least intrigued. It compounds the other way for mopers who stair in the mirror, too.
Here, here! I'd say as long as you don't have a swoll neck you're in the clear.
Y'all are being a bunch of babies.
<3
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Here, here! I'd say as long as you don't have a swoll neck you're in the clear.
Y'all are being a bunch of babies.
<3
I wonder if it's the internet.
People seem more hyper aware of everything.
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I wonder if it's the internet.
People seem more hyper aware of everything.
Maybe. I'm hyperaware of all these swoll necks right now. Grooooss! Nooo!
https://lookism.net/Thread-Neck-Training-Thread
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Oh it's no fairytale. Just the other day I was at the beach and this lerpy looking waif of a logger-man saunters by with what was an obvious mail-order bride megababe. He looked like he had just crawled out of a cave somewhere, torn up jean overalls and a huge dip in his cheek, I can't even believe he knows how to use the internet but bygolly he did it! And all I could think was 'That lucky sonofab*tch, he is getting the freshest borscht and dumplings every single night! The world is a good place!'. And she was just smiling and laughing at all his jokes, and you know why? Cause that Lurch-looking man was her knight in shining armor and she thought he was a BABE.
So there you have it. IRL.
Also, I can only speak for myself AND EVERY OTHER GIRL I KNOW, but the only thing worse than a meathead with a thick neck (swoll neck?) is a dude who's jealous of a meathead with a thick neck.
Aren't mail order brides like, paid for?
Not the best example but I get your underlying message & I agree completely, looks AREN'T the be all & end all.
The point I was making is that (just as with gender, race etc) discrimination does exist & we should be prepared for it/ not let it get to us rather than pretending it doesn't.
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Aren't mail order brides like, paid for?
Not the best example but I get your underlying message & I agree completely, looks AREN'T the be all & end all.
The point I was making is that (just as with gender, race etc) discrimination does exist & we should be prepared for it/ not let it get to us rather than pretending it doesn't.
Life is easier if you're attractive. That's a given.
But it's far from over if you're not, and it seems people want to view the situation in black and white...all or nothing.
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Maybe. I'm hyperaware of all these swoll necks right now. Grooooss! Nooo!
https://lookism.net/Thread-Neck-Training-Thread
Who likes that type of neck? Biker chicks and anchorwomen?
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Who likes that type of neck? Biker chicks and anchorwomen?
That's what I'm saying! Thin necks for the win!
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Aren't mail order brides like, paid for?
Not the best example but I get your underlying message & I agree completely, looks AREN'T the be all & end all.
The point I was making is that (just as with gender, race etc) discrimination does exist & we should be prepared for it/ not let it get to us rather than pretending it doesn't.
Sometimes you get what you pay for though.
Is it really all that different than a lady paying for all sorts of plastic surgery to become a megahotbabe and land a loaded husband? There's just.. you know.. less physical risk involved.
Humans are complicated. ?! Gotta maximize those assets, whatever they are.
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I wonder if it's the internet.
People seem more hyper aware of everything.
There's many factors & social media is definitely one of them.
I also think that a lot of misinformed people have run with the feminist movement (which by itself is obviously fine) and used it to push agendas & ideas that ruined many peoples adolescent years and led to this whole 'man child' epidemic. [much more detail required but i cba to explain it right now]
That's what a lot of these lookism people are/ will end up being. Man children. Wanting everything on a platter without having to work for it. Yes they may be only focusing on looks, but I guarantee it reflects in their entire lives.
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There's many factors & social media is definitely one of them.
I also think that a lot of misinformed people have run with the feminist movement (which by itself is obviously fine) and used it to push agendas & ideas that ruined many peoples adolescent years and led to this whole 'man child' epidemic. [much more detail required but i cba to explain it right now]
That's what a lot of these lookism people are/ will end up being. Man children. Wanting everything on a platter without having to work for it. Yes they may be only focusing on looks, but I guarantee it reflects in their entire lives.
"Adult baby" should have stayed the silly fetish it was always meant to be!
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I also think that a lot of misinformed people have run with the feminist movement (which by itself is obviously fine) and used it to push agendas & ideas that ruined many peoples adolescent years and led to this whole 'man child' epidemic. [much more detail required but i cba to explain it right now]
Oh, I dated a feminist for almost 3 years, so no explanation needed. Boy, freedom is nice...
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Sometimes you get what you pay for though.
Is it really all that different than a lady paying for all sorts of plastic surgery to become a megahotbabe and land a loaded husband? There's just.. you know.. less physical risk involved.
Humans are complicated. ?!
Yes, they are.
That said, the practice of mail order brides is awful & it's a pretty well known fact that most just want out of their country.
Oh & another thing, MONEY IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR SOCIAL INTERACTION. Your advice isn't helpful here, its just seriously damaging.
With surgery there is at least a link (albeit tenuous in some cases) with trying to better oneself, above is just insanity.
Below is the CORRECT mindset.
Real talk. I date outside my league and have a s**tty jaw and thin neck.
Funny, smart, interesting > looks. I think it compounds, too. Like if a girl sees you with an attractive girl she is more attracted to you...or at least intrigued. It compounds the other way for mopers who stair in the mirror, too.
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Oh, I dated a feminist for almost 3 years, so no explanation needed. Boy, freedom is nice...
HAHA same, 2 here though. Definitely a learning experience...
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Yes, they are.
That said, the practice of mail order brides is awful & it's a pretty well known fact that most just want out of their country.
Oh & another thing, MONEY IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR SOCIAL INTERACTION. Your advice isn't helpful here, its just seriously damaging.
With surgery there is at least a link (albeit tenuous in some cases) with trying to better oneself, above is just insanity.
Below is the CORRECT mindset.
LOL ok ok. What if I have social interaction with my money though?
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"Adult baby" should have stayed the silly fetish it was always meant to be!
hahaha, the human condition will never cease to baffle me
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HAHA same, 2 here though. Definitely a learning experience...
I'm burning my bra as we speak.
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also please get the mental image of an adult baby out of my mind LOL
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LOL ok ok. What if I have social interaction with my money though?
touché ;)
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also please get the mental image of an adult baby out of my mind LOL
I can't. It's there forever. I'm sorry. You're welcome.
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HAHA same, 2 here though. Definitely a learning experience...
My condolences.
The worst part wasn't the feminist stuff, but more that if you do a single thing they don't like they vehemently try to change you, and I do a lot of things girls don't like and can't be changed. So...what a nightmare! We had a lot in common otherwise, and when we got along we were like clams, though, which is why the circus lasted a few years. Cue Rage Against the Machine "Freedom".
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I can't. It's there forever. I'm sorry. You're welcome.
New thread appears on 'general':
Mental Image OSTEOTOMY
-----------------------
Anyone know who performs it & how much it costs?
How high is relapse?
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My condolences.
The worst part wasn't the feminist stuff, but more that if you do a single thing they don't like they vehemently try to change you, and I do a lot of things girls don't like and can't be changed. So...what a nightmare! We had a lot in common otherwise, and when we got along we were like clams, though, which is why the circus lasted a few years. Cue Rage Against the Machine "Freedom".
I actually completely relate to that.
Unfortunately that's a big problem with this generation, even at university etc people get extremely angry if you voice an opinion that differs from the masses. Free speech is actually becoming endangered tbh. Crazy.
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I actually completely relate to that.
Unfortunately that's a big problem with this generation, even at university etc people get extremely angry if you voice an opinion that differs from the masses. Free speech is actually becoming endangered tbh. Crazy.
I'm probably from the prior generation (x)...but it was still an issue then. I mean my generation produced Reality Bites.
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I actually completely relate to that.
Unfortunately that's a big problem with this generation, even at university etc people get extremely angry if you voice an opinion that differs from the masses. Free speech is actually becoming endangered tbh. Crazy.
My bras are becoming endangered because I'm getting so enraged by all this adult-baby talk.
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I'm probably from the prior generation (x)...but it was still an issue then. I mean my generation produced Reality Bites.
Two words my friend: The Kardashians
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Two words my friend: The Kardashians
I don't even know who they are, TBH. I get an imagine of a trashy girl shaking her butt in my mind, but I have no idea where it came from because I can't think who these people are or ever seeing them. Know the name. Never cared enough to Google them.
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I don't even know who they are, TBH. I get an imagine of a trashy girl shaking her butt in my mind, but I have no idea where it came from because I can't think who these people are or ever seeing them. Know the name. Never cared enough to Google them.
It's worse. Stay away.
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It's worse. Stay away.
Okay. Glad I never bothered to Google it.
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Sorry to revive this thread, but.. ForeverAloneDude, and I just give you a big hug? I'll tell you what, I've been considered a pretty lady (Ok, this is before surgery -- my current post-surgery face is keeping me humble, but it's brought me here!) and was sought after by many men in my teens, 20s, 30s. My most long-lasting relationship, however, was 18 years with a guy that wasn't necessarily considered traditionally "attractive" by whatever body and facial measurements people use. But he was THE HOTTEST thing to me because he was kind, caring, compassionate, creative, and put all his energy into making life feel like pure magic to me. I know for a fact that he, too, had some serious self esteem issues because of how he perceived himself, but f**k it. f**k aesthetic standards. You do you, and do it the best you can. Make your life pure magic and you'll be IRRESISTIBLE to even the hottest ladies.
We've since parted ways, but when I tell friends my physical "type" they're confused.. because it isn't anyone else's "type". But when you fall in love with someone I guarantee you they're going to love the way you look because it looks like YOU.
Thanks for the hug. *hugs back*
Also I'm happy to hear that those surgeries were successful and you improved looks wise.
Did that guy who you was with for 18 years openly complain about his insecurities to you in person? What were the sorts of things he did specifically that were magical? Like with creativity, was he a brilliant oragamist or maybe game artist or musician etc?
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Also, though, I met that guy on the internet circa 2000, and after months saw his picture and just thought "you're the most beautiful thing in the universe".
You could EASILY replicate that vibe with one of those Russian wife websites. Just saying.
Some Russian wife is going to love the s**t out of you.
Well maybe the gifts won't hurt, eh? 🤔
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I can't stand that site, but the concept of lookism itself is not garbage lol. Neither are the 'objective' measurements of attractiveness. What's garbage is the idea that one has to be PERFECT in order to have any chance in life, this is obviously false.
A lot of the guys on lookism and such circles who talk about perfection etc are mostly trolls. Remember that Orb guy? Apparently he was trolling all along.
But yeah, lookism is an actual term... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5702199/
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All I'm saying is whatever bs Lookism is spoon feeding you is garbage.
I'm not a lookism poster, though I browse there once in a while for surgeries/topics that aren't found anywhere on this forum.
I know that they are crazy and you don't need to be perfect, but I wish I was just a bit more attractive. I mean you yourself know that its nice to improve looks wise since you also did that via surgeries.
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Ignoring reality is the WORST thing you can do when trying to console someone, it doesn't matter if this is online or not. If you paint a fairytale scene for someone just to temporarily cheer them up it sets them up perfectly to fall again & fall further the next time they face some hardship.
The only difference is every time someone does this, they grow more & more convinced that everyone else is a liar which can be really dangerous if they suffer from a MD of any kind.
Not bashing anyone, just observing.
Yeah the "just don't think about it bro" attitude is annoying tbh.
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Like if a girl sees you with an attractive girl she is more attracted to you...or at least intrigued.
Preselection is actually scientifically proven to be one of the top 3 things to help.
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Thanks for the hug. *hugs back*
Also I'm happy to hear that those surgeries were successful and you improved looks wise.
Did that guy who you was with for 18 years openly complain about his insecurities to you in person? What were the sorts of things he did specifically that were magical? Like with creativity, was he a brilliant oragamist or maybe game artist or musician etc?
Oh boy, ForeverAloneDude, I definitely didn't improve lookswise from my surgery, my surgeon f**ked me up a little but you know, ah, whatever.
Um jeez, yeah I guess he was a very talented writer, cartoonist, game maker (board games!), and just into cool interesting things (he got excited about wacky art, architecture, cultish strange hidden things.. he could find a nugget of gold in just about any thing or any place). More than anything though I think those gifts sprang from a deep curiosity of the world and knowing his authentic self and being able to create through his own unique lense. I think we're all capable of that, and when we tap into it it's something very special to others, helping to open them to wonder, and helping them to color their world. Maybe curiosity is just crazy sexy to me, IDK. And yes, he did tell me about his insecurities, I guess you have to if you're dating since age 13 or whatever. He struggled a lot with depression, eating disorders, self-hate, was diagnosed with just about every mood/personality disorder in the book, but honestly to me I could never see a deficiency in him. Maybe more sensitive/creative types (which it seems like you are) are just sort of more primed for that?
Anyways, I would just encourage you to keep being curious about the things you love, dive in to what you're passionate about and it'll be contagious and extremely attractive to anyone you come into contact with. Just my two cents.
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Oh boy, ForeverAloneDude, I definitely didn't improve lookswise from my surgery, my surgeon f**ked me up a little but you know, ah, whatever.
Um jeez, yeah I guess he was a very talented writer, cartoonist, game maker (board games!), and just into cool interesting things (he got excited about wacky art, architecture, cultish strange hidden things.. he could find a nugget of gold in just about any thing or any place). More than anything though I think those gifts sprang from a deep curiosity of the world and knowing his authentic self and being able to create through his own unique lense. I think we're all capable of that, and when we tap into it it's something very special to others, helping to open them to wonder, and helping them to color their world. Maybe curiosity is just crazy sexy to me, IDK. And yes, he did tell me about his insecurities, I guess you have to if you're dating since age 13 or whatever. He struggled a lot with depression, eating disorders, self-hate, was diagnosed with just about every mood/personality disorder in the book, but honestly to me I could never see a deficiency in him. Maybe more sensitive/creative types (which it seems like you are) are just sort of more primed for that?
Anyways, I would just encourage you to keep being curious about the things you love, dive in to what you're passionate about and it'll be contagious and extremely attractive to anyone you come into contact with. Just my two cents.
Well you're an anomaly though compared to most women (talking about the insecurities and how he expressed them to you) part. Most women would say "dude, I'm not your therapist at least about these looks thing."
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Well you're an anomaly though compared to most women (talking about the insecurities and how he expressed them to you) part. Most women would say "dude, I'm not your therapist at least about these looks thing."
Depends. Many women think they can fix broken guys and are naturally "motherly".
Some are hard asses who have no interest in your problems. Some are in between. Definitely wouldn't say she's an anomaly.
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Depends. Many women think they can fix broken guys and are naturally "motherly".
Some are hard asses who have no interest in your problems. Some are in between. Definitely wouldn't say she's an anomaly.
Hopefully not too much of an anomaly. I wouldn't really call it motherly though.. I just feel like authentic human relationships should have a lot of trust and vulnerability. I need it as much as the guy. Otherwise, what's the point?
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Otherwise, what's the point?
Have someone to eat popcorn with on Friday nights?
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I'm just kidding.
To me the most important thing is getting along like clams. My first GF and I did at times, but when we didn't, it was AWFUL, and thus I put a premium on getting along. I assume someone you are with regularly will be vulnerable at times, and then and trust will come up naturally.
Looks are important to a degree, but for me less so than a lot of guys. I'm very visual when it comes to casual relationships, but when it comes to committing it's all about personality. They can be a 10 and I'd reject them if they were awful humans, and have done this, even with my crappy jaws. Lesson to the mopey kids: a lot of this stuff is mental. Get your ducks in a row there, and you won't have to slash up your face to get a date.
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Have someone to eat popcorn with on Friday nights?
I can't wait till I can eat popcorn again... mmmm.....
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I'm just kidding.
To me the most important thing is getting along like clams. My first GF and I did at times, but when we didn't, it was AWFUL, and thus I put a premium on getting along. I assume someone you are with regularly will be vulnerable at times, and then and trust will come up naturally.
Looks are important to a degree, but for me less so than a lot of guys. I'm very visual when it comes to casual relationships, but when it comes to committing it's all about personality. They can be a 10 and I'd reject them if they were awful humans, and have done this, even with my crappy jaws. Lesson to the mopey kids: a lot of this stuff is mental. Get your ducks in a row there, and you won't have to slash up your face to get a date.
Don't slash up your faces if you don't have to, guys. It's really not at all pleasant.
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I can't wait till I can eat popcorn again... mmmm.....
Tip: sprinkle white cheddar on it.
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Tip: sprinkle white cheddar on it.
WHAT! That sounds cray. Popcorn nachos. I can dig.
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WHAT! That sounds cray. Popcorn nachos. I can dig.
Powdered white cheddar.
It has to be the good stuff, though. None of this white cheddar with chemicals in it.
Cook fresh kernels in olive oil and sprinkle with powdered cheddar.
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Depends. Many women think they can fix broken guys and are naturally "motherly".
Some are hard asses who have no interest in your problems. Some are in between. Definitely wouldn't say she's an anomaly.
Maybe the general trend it on the opposite end though, tbh. Plus, a lot of women don't want to be "motherly" to their romantic partner.
Yeah I have a few online female friends who have that quality.
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Maybe the general trend it on the opposite end though, tbh. Plus, a lot of women don't want to be "motherly" to their romantic partner.
Yeah I have a few online female friends who have that quality.
There's an entire subsection who thinks they can fix broken dudes. It's not a majority, but it's a lot, and yes, that is a motherly trait.
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There's an entire subsection who thinks they can fix broken dudes. It's not a majority, but it's a lot, and yes, that is a motherly trait.
Yep, the "adult baby" caregiver. ;) Somebody's got to change the diapers! Sorry.. back to popcorn..
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Powdered white cheddar.
It has to be the good stuff, though. None of this white cheddar with chemicals in it.
Cook fresh kernels in olive oil and sprinkle with powdered cheddar.
Oh yeah, like a real foods pirate booty. Nom
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I've got 99 problems.. http://littleab.com/ABcare/babysitter.html
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I've got 99 problems.. http://littleab.com/ABcare/babysitter.html
humans are evolving backwards - the website
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humans are evolving backwards - the website
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution_(biology)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolution_(biology)
someone get on that wiki page and just change it to a picture of an adult in a diaper
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There's an entire subsection who thinks they can fix broken dudes. It's not a majority, but it's a lot, and yes, that is a motherly trait.
Some of them do since they know that a lot of them who are insecure about looks probably won't cheat on her/leave her.