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21
Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by BurnSoul on March 27, 2024, 02:48:50 PM »
Kavan.

I am adressing this reply to you.
GJ was clearly calling you out for how you phrased and put a comment on this forum. You DID come across as "I only help people who I find worthy" attitude. Specially since you just helped that other woman in that other forum. This is something I consider serious, I can assure you it is no joke to me. You are in NO obligation to help anyone. GJ is NOT guilt tripping you on that. He is saying that you should not even comment in the matter if you don't plan or know how to help instead of just commenting saying "I won't spoon feed you information" When we just want help of any sort. I appreciate the help a ton you gave me. Wether Harvard or institutations think you are brilliant I don't know, if that is true then it's deserved from what I've seen before from you here at least in knowledge wise, but truth be told you do come off as an asshole and switching narratives in some forums specially in this one. You tried switching the blame on GJ for you not commenting here or helping me any further, that is just your choice. Not GJ's fault or anyone else's.
       What else can a forum be for but ask, give or learn information. Nothing. Also phrasing "nothing I can say/do will make Sinn come out of retirement" That is not the concern GJ was talking about. You're probably not a dumb guy or an asshole, but it is a bit sociopathic you also had to clarify the Harvard part JUST IN CASE.
       Also the procedure IS the procedure. I do not care for EARL. Only the procedure. Apparently after it he still wanted more and his history seems there are multilpe things he wanted to adress, which could signal surgery addiction. I am not interested in that. Varbrah is someone who also got it. I'm also looking for forums of what he said.
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Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by kavan on March 27, 2024, 02:15:07 PM »
Quote from: GJ on March 27, 2024, 01:29:58 PM
Yeah, none of that happened. I've never mentioned you to anyone who signs up. Donations go towards hosting, which is $450 every 3 years.

The bottom line is you think you're brilliant, and you think others should be equally brilliant. Not everyone can digest what you want them to digest. They might not have the savviness to find articles; they might not have the intelligence to digest them; they might just not want to spend their time that way, which is why they signed up for an advice forum (i.e. to ask advice). You have a hard-on for Earl because he did some research. Who cares? He probably had OCD and other disorders that lead him to do a ton of research. Not everyone is going to do that, nor should they be expected to do that.

The goal of this forum is to HELP people who have serious problems. If someone is considering a LF3, they probably have a serious problem. Instead of getting help, they get demeaned and domineered. It's truly bizarre.

Well, you should not be expecting me to do their research for them. As for my 'thinking I'm brilliant', I'm not alone in that. MIT and Harvard thought so too. Now you are insulting Earl for having OCD and other 'problems' that cause someone to do research and study. Ya right, not everyone is going to do that or be expected to do that. So, I guess that leaves people who have 'OCD' and other 'psyche problems' as the very few who find a doctor to do ML3.

We shall leave it as NOTHING I can say is going to be helpful to this person or to your liking and there is NOTHING I can say/do that will make Sinn come out of retirement or somehow 'create' other doctors that are looking for patients who want ML3S, I DON'T CLAIM to be conversant in ML3s and there is NOTHING I can do about Earl (for what ever his reasons) not being here to keep up with giving info to people who come here in pursuit of what he had. NOR would I think to hold him 'responsible' for a 'bad outcome' that someone else might have if they pursued ML3 without Earl's help. I'm not a PROXY for Earl and you should not be shaming me here for pointing out I admire his 'smarts' for being able to do this with NO HELP from this board. If it's so important to you that members coming here seeking info on ML3 get it than that begs the question of what efforts have YOU made to encourage Earl to (or the other person) to come back to this board when you have sign ups coming here in pursuit of ML3s???? I guess you've answered what effort you made to encourage him to come back to help with ML3 questions by Insulting/shaming him here too for having 'OCD' or 'psyche problems'.
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Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by GJ on March 27, 2024, 01:30:42 PM »
OP, to your actual question, and my attempt to help. I went through my old emails with Earl.

Since I told him I wouldn't share them publicly, I won't, but I'll summarize the gist of it as I don't think he'd care about summarizing them.

He did get the LF3, but it was a modified LF3, and it didn't make him an "Adonis", just Earl without orbital rim deficiency. With things more forward, any asymmetry was possibly exaggerated. He wound up getting a modified LF3 because the surgeon thought the cuts he wanted (the actual LF3) would produce a step off in the malar region (this was my concern, as noted in the original post). Cut was stopped before the orbital nerve to eliminate the risk of blindness and also another risk of a step off in that area. Step offs can be "sanded down", but surgeons prefer not to do that (I'm not sure why...must be inexact...I assume they can graft, too, but again, that's usually inexact).

That's all I can really say about it. My recommendation would be: go on a lot of consults and take it slowly, and don't fall for promises or ask the surgeon leading questions. Just ask a question, be quiet, and let him answer. If possible, ask for a referral to someone who actually had the LF3, etc. Basic stuff, but it's important to do a consult the right way. Oh, and read journal articles if you can. ;)
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Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by GJ on March 27, 2024, 01:29:58 PM »
Quote from: kavan on March 27, 2024, 12:34:22 PM
My point is that I don't volunteer for you to put a guilt trip on me in circumstances where I'm not volunteering to coach, coddle, advise or otherwise 'spoonfeed', especially in highly esoteric procedures like ML3 where people sign up for your board BECAUSE EARL HAD THIS, but isn't here and I'm 'the one who might (or might not) know all about this'. I've NEVER claimed I'm conversant in ML3s.

It is a FACT that Earl had the 'smarts' and educational background enough to do the research he did, which took YEARS which was needed to pursue such a procedure. That is a very salient aspect of such a pursuit. I never said: 'You didn't read enough academic journals or text books to warrant help' . Not my problem if you misconstrue my words. I pointed out the FACT Earl was able to do that. It's also true that IF I wanted the procedure for myself (which I'm not pursuing), I would be able to digest all the material, do the research as did Earl. But that doesn't OBLIGE me to be a PROXY for Earl. Nor does it warrant any guilt trips from you.

The issue here as far as I'm concerned is that when people sign up for your board (and provide a financial contribution to do so) and sign up to pursue what Earl had, there should be no expectation that 'because I could or would' know more than others on here that I'm obliged to advise them on this. Clearly, you furthered that expectation and went about shaming me for not catering to it and it is exactly THAT type of thing I rather not YOU volunteer my help for when I've made clear I'm NOT volunteering to coach or advise on ML3s. So, what ever expectations new sign ups might have that I 'should' be able to help with this should NOT part of any impression they might have with what ever financial contribution they provide for signing up here.

I would suggest you make clear to prospective members that what ever financial contributions they provide is for internet upkeep expenses only and does not involve specialized access, advice, coaching..etc from any one particular member. That would be preferable to your blatantly DISRESPECTING my choice NOT to cater to ML3 sign ups and TOTALLY IGNORING that I gave him some help. BECAUSE you put a guilt trip on me this way and continued to do so DESPITE my offering him some help, I'm not inclined to say anything more to him at all.

So, not only did you try to shame and put a guilt trip on me for NOT volunteering to advise, coach etc. But you CONTINUED to do so AFTER I did give him some helpful advice. Put a guilt trip on me for not volunteering what I don't choose to volunteer and go on to SHAME me after I DO volunteer some advice and call me  'sociopathic' in the process and you think YOUR statements will motivate me to give this member any further advice? On the contrary. You've done the OPPOSITE.
So, shame and guilt trip as much as you want. In that way, it should help 'Burnt Soul' understand WHY I won't be volunteering any more commentary to him given the environment that anything I say, don't say or isn't said in a way that YOU don't like it to be said will be held against me.

Yeah, none of that happened. I've never mentioned you to anyone who signs up. Donations go towards hosting, which is $450 every 3 years.

The bottom line is you think you're brilliant, and you think others should be equally brilliant. Not everyone can digest what you want them to digest. They might not have the savviness to find articles; they might not have the intelligence to digest them; they might just not want to spend their time that way, which is why they signed up for an advice forum (i.e. to ask advice). You have a hard-on for Earl because he did some research. Who cares? He probably had OCD and other disorders that lead him to do a ton of research. Not everyone is going to do that, nor should they be expected to do that.

The goal of this forum is to HELP people who have serious problems. If someone is considering a LF3, they probably have a serious problem. Instead of getting help, they get demeaned and domineered. It's truly bizarre.
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Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by kavan on March 27, 2024, 12:34:22 PM »
Quote from: GJ on March 27, 2024, 05:24:32 AM
My point is that this forum is here to help people. If the answer is something like, "you didn't read enough academic journals or text books to warrant help" it's completely missing the point. There are people with life alternating, negative deformities who are desperate and want help. It frankly borders on sociopathy to say something to the effect of, "I know the answer, but I'm not telling you."

You're better off completely ignoring a thread rather than posting s**t like that. Otherwise, it's conflicting in that you don't want to spend energy helping someone, but you do want to spend energy berating them. Again, this is sociopathic and domineering.

If you don't want to volunteer information you know, then don't volunteer, period. But to sign up to volunteer and then hold back information while dangling carrots in front of users is just messed up.

Note: I do agree if someone sets clear boundaries like "No PMs" and then someone sends a PM, they should be berated. But that's different than what goes on in some of these threads where you just get the user walking on egg shells as you domineer them.

My point is that I don't volunteer for you to put a guilt trip on me in circumstances where I'm not volunteering to coach, coddle, advise or otherwise 'spoonfeed', especially in highly esoteric procedures like ML3 where people sign up for your board BECAUSE EARL HAD THIS, but isn't here and I'm 'the one who might (or might not) know all about this'. I've NEVER claimed I'm conversant in ML3s.

It is a FACT that Earl had the 'smarts' and educational background enough to do the research he did, which took YEARS which was needed to pursue such a procedure. That is a very salient aspect of such a pursuit. I never said: 'You didn't read enough academic journals or text books to warrant help' . Not my problem if you misconstrue my words. I pointed out the FACT Earl was able to do that. It's also true that IF I wanted the procedure for myself (which I'm not pursuing), I would be able to digest all the material, do the research as did Earl. But that doesn't OBLIGE me to be a PROXY for Earl. Nor does it warrant any guilt trips from you.

The issue here as far as I'm concerned is that when people sign up for your board (and provide a financial contribution to do so) and sign up to pursue what Earl had, there should be no expectation that 'because I could or would' know more than others on here that I'm obliged to advise them on this. Clearly, you furthered that expectation and went about shaming me for not catering to it and it is exactly THAT type of thing I rather not YOU volunteer my help for when I've made clear I'm NOT volunteering to coach or advise on ML3s. So, what ever expectations new sign ups might have that I 'should' be able to help with this should NOT part of any impression they might have with what ever financial contribution they provide for signing up here.

I would suggest you make clear to prospective members that what ever financial contributions they provide is for internet upkeep expenses only and does not involve specialized access, advice, coaching..etc from any one particular member. That would be preferable to your blatantly DISRESPECTING my choice NOT to cater to ML3 sign ups and TOTALLY IGNORING that I gave him some help. BECAUSE you put a guilt trip on me this way and continued to do so DESPITE my offering him some help, I'm not inclined to say anything more to him at all.

So, not only did you try to shame and put a guilt trip on me for NOT volunteering to advise, coach etc. But you CONTINUED to do so AFTER I did give him some helpful advice. Put a guilt trip on me for not volunteering what I don't choose to volunteer and go on to SHAME me after I DO volunteer some advice and call me  'sociopathic' in the process and you think YOUR statements will motivate me to give this member any further advice? On the contrary. You've done the OPPOSITE.
So, shame and guilt trip as much as you want. In that way, it should help 'Burnt Soul' understand WHY I won't be volunteering any more commentary to him given the environment that anything I say, don't say or isn't said in a way that YOU don't like it to be said will be held against me.

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Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by BurnSoul on March 27, 2024, 11:43:30 AM »
I consulted first with optometrist. Oculist (how we call them in spanis)
No graves disease. Even he could tell I just have big eyes and no projection of malar region. He called them cheekbones but I know what he meant.
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Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by GJ on March 27, 2024, 05:24:32 AM »
My point is that this forum is here to help people. If the answer is something like, "you didn't read enough academic journals or text books to warrant help" it's completely missing the point. There are people with life alternating, negative deformities who are desperate and want help. It frankly borders on sociopathy to say something to the effect of, "I know the answer, but I'm not telling you."

You're better off completely ignoring a thread rather than posting s**t like that. Otherwise, it's conflicting in that you don't want to spend energy helping someone, but you do want to spend energy berating them. Again, this is sociopathic and domineering.

If you don't want to volunteer information you know, then don't volunteer, period. But to sign up to volunteer and then hold back information while dangling carrots in front of users is just messed up.

Note: I do agree if someone sets clear boundaries like "No PMs" and then someone sends a PM, they should be berated. But that's different than what goes on in some of these threads where you just get the user walking on egg shells as you domineer them.
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Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by kavan on March 26, 2024, 09:29:16 PM »
...if someone's eyes are really BULGING out a lot, it could be GRAVE'S disease, ... consult with an eye doctor to rule out Graves....
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Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by BurnSoul on March 26, 2024, 09:12:41 PM »
Yeah.
For me not only the infraorbital area but also the Zygoma, malar, cheekbone area is behind. My eye has almost no support on the undereye area.
It's quite terrible. I just spoke with the Dr I went with in person consultation again by message and he says the only option he offers is implants. It causes me distress not only by mirror but also by feeling it. I feel it. When I smile for example, I feel how instead of there being something to hold the skin after I stop is not there. I only feel skin rising up and down and by consequence I have a weird smile where only skin and muscle moves into where cheeks are supposed to be. My jaws are normal it's only that third part that is inward or not grown properly.
      I just contacted Alfil. Apparently he doesn't do ml3. I will keep on looking. I just hope Dr Sinn was not the LAST of his kind willing to do this kind of procedure. Obwegeser just stopped replying a while ago altogether.
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Aesthetics / Re: Modified lefort 3 or other ways of cheekbone augmentation?
« Last post by kavan on March 26, 2024, 07:23:15 PM »
Quote from: BurnSoul on March 26, 2024, 04:46:17 PM

It's a shame Earl is not around anymore. Varbrah does not seem to be around either. Doing his methodology is the only thing left. I am dead set against implants because of many things, but yeah negative vector orbit is bad, but terrible when you have big eyes like I do. I'm not a bad looking guy, but the worse thing is knowing I could've not only looked much better but also I could be rid of this weird feeling in my face. Negative vector isn't only having "bulging eyes" but also FEELING that your eyes have no support. Like the skin you can feel it hanging if that makes sense.

    I hope anyone here who finds this thread can please comment whatever they can also find to help come closer to a conclusion for everyone here and that in the future people can have it much easier time finding the specialists. Meanwhile I will keep this thread updated with whatever I can find. Hopefully Varbrah or Earl can comment here when they, if ever. Get online again.

Negative vector is an aesthetic deficiency due to lack of projection of the orbital rim area. If a vertical line is dropped down from the outermost convexity of the EYEBALL (cornea) and if the orbital rim area is 1-5mm behind that line, it's considered negative vector. Orbital rim implants can provide about 5mm of projection. ML3 advancement, I think less. Negative vector is also referred to as 'prominent eye'. Negative vector or 'prominent eye' don't usually result in physical sensations or FEELINGS of distress but rather just aesthetic distress when looking in mirror.

However, if someone's eyes are really BULGING out a lot, it could be GRAVE'S disease, something that can involve 'feelings' to the eye area. The surgery for very big bulging eyes that could associated with Graves disease is orbital decompression; removal of bone from the ORBIT (eye socket). Surgery is done by an EYE SURGEON. So, consult with an eye doctor to rule out Graves. Advancing the orbital rim area to address an aesthetic deficiency of the orbital rim area in a MF3 differs from removing parts of the ORBIT to give more room for big bulging eyes. An eye doctor would be able to advise you further in the event you actually needed more space in the eye sockets to accommodate the globes (eyeballs).
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