Author Topic: European surgeon for BIMAX  (Read 698 times)

GJ

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2017, 11:05:35 AM »
I don't think anyone who can see my post history could accuse me of trying to "promote" M anything beyond saying he was my surgeon, which is a fact, that I had a good experience which is a fact, that I have also had complications post-operatively, that is also a fact. If i was trying to promote or otherwise be a shill, why the fuck would I mention that?

Everyone knows the surgeon you used because you mention him a lot. I didn't go back and delete your old posts about him, just the new ones after the SJ fiasco.

I recommend re-reading the registration agreement.

It's not my job to investigate the validity of each post. It's the user's responsibility to post accurate information. SJ did not do that with regard to your surgeon, and therefore I'm making the decision not to allow promotion of that surgeon at this time. It's best if you leave, so go ahead and do so. When we get M patients in here who aren't connected to SJ it will be a better and more accurate situation for patients. You were too dense to realize that now is not the best time to yap about M, and doubly dense not to drop it when you got a valid explanation. Those crazy emotions got the best of you.

CCW

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2017, 11:21:28 AM »
SJ was always talking shit about Raffaini. He even said a family member of his had a bad experience/result with Raffaini and he should be avoided. Raffaini has been famous on jaw surgery forums for a long time due to a couple of his B/As that are among the best in the business. He also trained with Arnett.

There was one poster here who had sleep apnea surgery with Alfaro and sang his praises. Alfaro is famous for his minimally invasive surgery techniques and for being able to do bimax in under two hours, which makes the recovery much easier for the patient.

kavan

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2017, 11:37:24 AM »
Everyone knows the surgeon you used because you mention him a lot. I didn't go back and delete your old posts about him, just the new ones after the SJ fiasco.

I recommend re-reading the registration agreement.

It's not my job to investigate the validity of each post. It's the user's responsibility to post accurate information. SJ did not do that with regard to your surgeon, and therefore I'm making the decision not to allow promotion of that surgeon at this time. It's best if you leave, so go ahead and do so. When we get M patients in here who aren't connected to SJ it will be a better and more accurate situation for patients. You were too dense to realize that now is not the best time to yap about M, and doubly dense not to drop it when you got a valid explanation. Those crazy emotions got the best of you.


It's like insane. Here Marian.... had high infection rate for implants and elected to give ppsk them WITH maxfax and ppsk still does not get it.  It's like these SJ followers are all UNDER THE INFLUENCE of SJ.

OMG. ppsk could even possibly go after SJ legally for deceptive practices like IF NOT for SJ's promotions under deception ppsk would not have found Marian....

But ppsk still wants to PARROT PROMOTE M's name on here.

In MARKETING, the phenomenon SJ is doing is something I call 'PPP', Push and Parrot Phenomena.  It's where the BRAND INFLUENCER in social media PUSHES something and gets OTHERS to PARROT what he's pushing. The phenomena or the push by the PUSHER and subsequently the PARROTING of the names by those on social media he INFLUENCES, puts a 'buzz' on a doctor's name where the REPETITION of it has a MARKETING effect for the doctor. That is one thing being addressed here.

The other thing is that because of SJ's DECEPTIVE biz/marketing practices where some doctors names are those he promotes which get parroted, his deceptive practices have given them a 'questionable' appearance. That is to say, the association EVEN if we don't know all the facts, is one where they are somehow associated with SJ's DECEPTION. That's another reason for their names not to be spelled out. For example, if at each mention of one of their names someone said something like, 'Oh, that doc must be in the bag with SJ's deceptive biz', that sort of thing is made LESS by not spelling out their names. So, also has somewhat of a protective element for them.

Bottom line is that because they have been promoted on here via the PARROTING of names where the PUSH to do so arises from SJ's INFLUENCE, the mod, GJ is doing the RIGHT thing by disallowing full spelling of the names and/or deleting entries where a party clearly under the INFLUENCE of SJ is appearing to push and parrot the name/s.
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Bowie

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2017, 11:45:28 AM »
I have heard of other surgeons putting jaw implants in at the same time as jaw surgery.

Personally, I believe that ppsk was a patient of M, in which case he wasn't parroting or intentionally promoting imo.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 11:54:23 AM by GJ »

kavan

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2017, 11:46:53 AM »
SJ was always talking shit about Raffaini. He even said a family member of his had a bad experience/result with Raffaini and he should be avoided. Raffaini has been famous on jaw surgery forums for a long time due to a couple of his B/As that are among the best in the business. He also trained with Arnett.

There was one poster here who had sleep apnea surgery with Alfaro and sang his praises. Alfaro is famous for his minimally invasive surgery techniques and for being able to do bimax in under two hours, which makes the recovery much easier for the patient.

Exactly and because of that, he redirects to M..... Not to mention, the deceptive practices of SJ even calls into question if a family member actually had such a bad experience. Can't be proved or disproved. But circumstances of his deceptive biz practices do justify disregarding many of his claims.
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Bowie

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2017, 11:48:58 AM »
calls into question if a family member actually had such a bad experience.
Well I always thought it was weird that he was interested in jaw surgery and his cousin just happens to have jaw surgery with one of the surgeons discussed on the board. Most people that need jaw surgery don't even know about it so I thought that was far fetched.

kavan

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2017, 02:00:51 PM »
I have heard of other surgeons putting jaw implants in at the same time as jaw surgery.

Personally, I believe that ppsk was a patient of M, in which case he wasn't parroting or intentionally promoting imo.

Well, it can be done. But it's a function of the risk profile of the doctor. ppsk said his doctor told him there is 20% chance of infection. 10% chance infection with no relief from AB protocol and 10% chance of infection with relief from AB protocol.
That's a high risk profile for infection to be putting in the implants at same time.

There is no question about ppsk being a patient of the doctor.
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ditterbo

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2017, 04:10:52 PM »
I have heard of other surgeons putting jaw implants in at the same time as jaw surgery.

Personally, I believe that ppsk was a patient of M, in which case he wasn't parroting or intentionally promoting imo.

Agreed, at least I don't think ppsk is a promoter at this point since he actually went through surgery with him. But I'm not really paying this drama my closest attention, & respect GJ's points as he definitely seems 110% certain of them. Maybe there's some merit (that I'm not following) in cleaning the board of any patient post surgery testimonials from docs SJ promoted, due to the unverifiable connections with SJ.  Seems like a bit of a stretch from where I'm sitting. But from the mods perspective, I get not wanting any doc to profit off his forum by a "PPP" spokesperson, like SJ, starting a domino affect. Eventually the forum will be ingrained with a bunch of patient testimonials from only the docs that were promoted, and it'll be a vicious cycle where no other doc becomes known except the ones originally promoted.

Heck SJ wanted to steer me away from Gunson over to M b/c he claimed to have known people on this forum (circa like 2012-2014, mentioned usernames) who had surgery with G and have had persistent medical issues since.  I can't verify that obviously but assuming the darkest of intents, SJ was trying to scare me out of big CCW rotation docs and over to his chosen one. Fortunately I don't think I need to follow Gunson's big posterior downgrafting plan to a T anyways for the affect I think I want.

Regardless, sorry to see your struggles here, PPSK.

Bowie

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2017, 04:19:25 PM »


Heck SJ wanted to steer me away from Gunson over to M b/c he claimed to have known people on this forum (circa like 2012-2014, mentioned usernames) who had surgery with G and have had persistent medical issues since.  I can't verify that obviously but assuming the darkest of intents, SJ was trying to scare me out of big CCW rotation docs and over to his chosen one. Fortunately I don't think I need to follow Gunson's big posterior downgrafting plan to a T anyways for the affect I think I want.

Regardless, sorry to see your struggles here, PPSK.

That's pretty creepy thinking about it now, how manipulative he was, but why would he be so eager for you to go with M if he WASNT getting commission?

dervyx

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2017, 04:22:54 PM »
Agreed, at least I don't think ppsk is a promoter at this point since he actually went through surgery with him. But I'm not really paying this drama my closest attention, & respect GJ's points as he definitely seems 110% certain of them. Maybe there's some merit (that I'm not following) in cleaning the board of any patient post surgery testimonials from docs SJ promoted, due to the unverifiable connections with SJ.  Seems like a bit of a stretch from where I'm sitting. But from the mods perspective, I get not wanting any doc to profit off his forum by a "PPP" spokesperson, like SJ, starting a domino affect. Eventually the forum will be ingrained with a bunch of patient testimonials from only the docs that were promoted, and it'll be a vicious cycle where no other doc becomes known except the ones originally promoted.

Heck SJ wanted to steer me away from Gunson over to M b/c he claimed to have known people on this forum (circa like 2012-2014, mentioned usernames) who had surgery with G and have had persistent medical issues since.  I can't verify that obviously but assuming the darkest of intents, SJ was trying to scare me out of big CCW rotation docs and over to his chosen one. Fortunately I don't think I need to follow Gunson's big posterior downgrafting plan to a T anyways for the affect I think I want.

Regardless, sorry to see your struggles here, PPSK.

What surprises me is that user ppsk had jaw implants with Dr M while during my consultation with him last month he said he is against any kind of implant and recommended fillers instead.

He was even referring to it as prosthesis (Italian word) which I had no idea what was he talking about for a while.

GJ

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2017, 04:46:17 PM »
What surprises me is that user ppsk had jaw implants with Dr M while during my consultation with him last month he said he is against any kind of implant and recommended fillers instead.

He was even referring to it as prosthesis (Italian word) which I had no idea what was he talking about for a while.

Weird.

PPSK had infection, right? Maybe M is now against them because of infection?

I have no idea. To me the entire situation is weird, and I feel for anyone in Italy who needs surgery. SJ broke the market.

That's pretty creepy thinking about it now, how manipulative he was, but why would he be so eager for you to go with M if he WASNT getting commission?

He claims because he believes in it and wants to help people.

Unfortunately, none of his public behavior online (or private behavior where he tried to clandestinely buy my forum to further promote AMF) suggests the slightest hint of altruism, and actions > words.

kavan

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2017, 05:02:47 PM »
Agreed, at least I don't think ppsk is a promoter at this point since he actually went through surgery with him. But I'm not really paying this drama my closest attention, & respect GJ's points as he definitely seems 110% certain of them. Maybe there's some merit (that I'm not following) in cleaning the board of any patient post surgery testimonials from docs SJ promoted, due to the unverifiable connections with SJ.  Seems like a bit of a stretch from where I'm sitting. But from the mods perspective, I get not wanting any doc to profit off his forum by a "PPP" spokesperson, like SJ, starting a domino affect. Eventually the forum will be ingrained with a bunch of patient testimonials from only the docs that were promoted, and it'll be a vicious cycle where no other doc becomes known except the ones originally promoted.

Heck SJ wanted to steer me away from Gunson over to M b/c he claimed to have known people on this forum (circa like 2012-2014, mentioned usernames) who had surgery with G and have had persistent medical issues since.  I can't verify that obviously but assuming the darkest of intents, SJ was trying to scare me out of big CCW rotation docs and over to his chosen one. Fortunately I don't think I need to follow Gunson's big posterior downgrafting plan to a T anyways for the affect I think I want.

Regardless, sorry to see your struggles here, PPSK.

I think what GJ is wanting ppsk to understand is that this is just not the 'right time' to be dropping M's name given the circumstances.  The promos of M, ultimately converge to SJ's mention and that includes behind the scenes and that brought in a lot of parroting of his name. So ppsk is not really the promoter. It's just that this is not a good time to parrot or otherwise drop that doctor's name.

ppsk seems like a NICE person albeit somewhat unmindful of why the mod needs to do what he's doing at this point in time due to the SJ circumstances.
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PloskoPlus

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2017, 05:09:00 PM »
Regarding the original thread subject, when patients praise their surgeon, one should be mindful of the Stockholm syndrome. It can last upto a year. I know this firsthand.

Milli_Meters

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2017, 05:11:15 PM »
Ppsk is a good guy. He just wants to extricate his experience with M from the SJ saga but its a bit hard right now.


kavan

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Re: European surgeon for BIMAX
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2017, 05:16:45 PM »
Weird....it's getting kind of scary. Like who knows where M was on the learning curve when he put them in at same time and who knows if SJ was just finding people for him to practice on. As to implants, he would frequently trash the implants and the doctors who did them along with the well know top of the field max fax docs in effort to re-direct to M.



Weird.

PPSK had infection, right? Maybe M is now against them because of infection?

I have no idea. To me the entire situation is weird, and I feel for anyone in Italy who needs surgery. SJ broke the market.

He claims because he believes in it and wants to help people.

Unfortunately, none of his public behavior online (or private behavior where he tried to clandestinely buy my forum to further promote AMF) suggests the slightest hint of altruism, and actions > words.
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.