Author Topic: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health  (Read 837 times)

kavan

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2017, 12:35:14 PM »
Hi  :)

I saw my surgeon, and surprisingly, he told me that I have not a condylar resorption but a significant joint remodelling.
He told me that my wisdom teeth should play a major role in my occlusion because I have an occlusal trauma.

Next step is to try another splint. If no improvement : surgery.

Ps : I am on this forum to find support and not to read derogatory feedback. There's treatment for early menopause...

I don't know who can help you here.  You are not clear. You provide poor photo documentation. You provide conflicting information, ie. [Plus, a condylar resorption is visible on my X ray, according to a surgeon.] vs. [I saw my surgeon, and surprisingly, he told me that I have not a condylar resorption.]

How would you like to be 'supported' here.

1: Would you like me to refrain from pointing out when someone gives you stupid advice eg. Lefort 2, so you can follow up taking the stupid advice.

2: Would you like to continue posting useless photos that will not bring forth useful advice.

3: Would you like to decide for yourself which doctor is telling you the right thing as to whether or not you have condylar resorption.

Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

Framboise

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2017, 12:49:35 AM »
Hi Kavan

Actually, the surgeon I've met wrote me a note for an occlusodontist : "an important bone remodelling is visible, notably a condylar melting"
And at our last interview, I've spoken with him about it and he backed down : no it's just a remodelling, CT scan won't help.

I'm sorry for my useless post, I will come back later when a surgery will be planned, in order to stay relevant, regarding the forum


kavan

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2017, 07:13:55 AM »
Hi Kavan

Actually, the surgeon I've met wrote me a note for an occlusodontist : "an important bone remodelling is visible, notably a condylar melting"
And at our last interview, I've spoken with him about it and he backed down : no it's just a remodelling, CT scan won't help.

I'm sorry for my useless post, I will come back later when a surgery will be planned, in order to stay relevant, regarding the forum

I think the remodeling could be from the resorption. But maybe it's a favorable type of remodeling.
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

Framboise

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2017, 10:54:37 PM »
I didn't even know a positive remodelage was possible...

Anyway, I find this :

" Extraction of molars in adults is sometimes necessary (although it is preferable to save tht tooth whenenever possible). Where an extraction is essential, the space can be filled with a bridge or an implant. However, spaces are often left unfilled, perhaps because the patient cannot afford an implant or a bridge and is unaware of the potential health consequences

This can lead to an uneven bite, distorted growth of adjacent teeth, and consequent muscular imbalances, with all the possible repercussions of TMJ syndrome, jaw pain, headaches, or multiple symptoms whose origin is diificult to trace and often remains unidentified.

Where an unfilled space is leading to symptoms and health disturbances, the space needs to be filled.

Extractions, particulary of WISDOM TEETH, may also cause direct trauma or disturbance to the jaw, and in the case of upper wisdom teeth, disturbance of the palatine bones with their crucial connection to the sphenoid bone. "



In my case, my upper wisdom teeth were fully erupted since 2005. 11 years with them without any issues. A small cavity => extractions !
French butchers ....

Framboise

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2017, 10:59:38 PM »
"Even though your posterior teeth are less visible they have an extremely important function as they support the vertical height of your face. If you lose teeth at the back of your mouth then your face will lose some height and will begin to collapse inwards, a look that can be extremely aging as this loss of support will lead to wrinkles and folds developing. In addition, loss of back teeth places additional pressure on your front teeth as they struggle to cope with the extra load placed on them during eating and chewing. As a result they can begin to splay outwards and forwards."

It's exactly what happened to me ....  :'(

kavan

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2017, 09:52:26 AM »
I think it would benefit you to do more research on condylar resorption and how it relates to joint remodelling. For example joint remodelling as result of condylar resorption; the INTER-RELATIONSHIP. "Condylar melting" sounds like a different term for condylar resorption and condylar remodelling would most likely happen subsequently.

The more research you do, the better able you will be to put different pieces of information together that sound like 'different' things but might be different ways of saying the same thing.


ETA: http://www.ajnr.org/content/ajnr/11/3/541.full.pdf
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 12:11:22 PM by kavan »
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Framboise

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2017, 11:28:37 PM »
Thank you so much Kavan for your answer.

I have an idea about where my condylar resorption could come from, if I have one.
Not hormonal imbalance... but  I have an idea.

I will see a renownded surgeon this week and I'll talk about it.

kavan

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2017, 10:57:34 AM »
Keep in mind, condylar resporption is something the literature about it says exact causality is something UNKNOWN. But lists the things it's often associated with. The most salient RISK PROFILE is YOUNG WOMEN. This is why it's often called 'Cheer Leader's Syndrome". So, if the medical academics in this venue can't pin it down to an exact cause, don't assume you can.
Although the trauma of wisdom teeth extraction could precipitate it, it also could be COINCIDENTAL with the condition being already there.

The following are excerpts from Dr. Wolford who is a leading expert in this venue. Although NEITHER you NOR I can diagnose IF you have condylar resorption, it will benefit you to read all the articles you can about the condition which should help you narrow down doctors to consult with to those who are more familiar with this than others. Doctors who are knowledgeable in this are also in a better capacity to rule it out IF that is not what you have.


[Patients predisposed to ICR are usually teenage girls in theirpubertal growth phase; they typically have high occlusal planeangle facial types and class II skeletal and occlusal relationships.They are often candidates for orthodontics and orthognathic

Idiopathic condylar resorption of the temporomandibular joint in teenage girls (cheerleaders syndrome). surgery even before the onset of the disease. Since ICR usuallydevelops during pubertal growth, some patients are in orthodon-tic treatment at the onset of the disease. In most cases, ICR de-velops regardless of orthodontic or orthognathic surgicalintervention. However, these procedures can increase loading orstress on the TMJ and can initiate or accelerate the rate of condy-lar resorption. In some ICR cases the pathology is self-limiting,with only moderate amounts of bone resorption, whereas in othercases the entire head and neck of the condyle can be resorbed.If the disease does go into remission, it can be easily reactivatedby parafunctional habits, trauma, orthodontics, orthognathicsurgery, or other factors that load or stress the joint.

Idiopathic condylar resorption of the temporomandibular joint in teenage girls (cheerleaders syndrome). ]


[ICR PREDISPOSITIONSpecific factors and preexisting facial morphologic charac-teristics significantly increase susceptibility to ICR. These fac-tors include female sex; age range from 10 to 20 years, with astrong predilection for teenagers in their pubertal growth phase;high occlusal plane angle and mandibular plane angle (i.e.,dolicocephalic) facial morphology (Figure 1a,1b); and predomi-nance of class II skeletal (retruded lower jaw) and occlusal rela-tionships with or without open bite (Figure 1c). ICR rarely occursin patients with low occlusal and mandibular plane angles (i.e.,brachyocephalic) facial types or class III (lower jaw forward ofthe upper jaw) skeletal relationship

Idiopathic condylar resorption of the temporomandibular joint in teenage girls (cheerleaders syndrome).] Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7400592_Idiopathic_condylar_resorption_of_the_temporomandibular_joint_in_teenage_girls_cheerleaders_syndrome [accessed Oct 09 2017].





Thank you so much Kavan for your answer.

I have an idea about where my condylar resorption could come from, if I have one.
Not hormonal imbalance... but  I have an idea.

I will see a renownded surgeon this week and I'll talk about it.
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

Framboise

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2017, 11:28:56 AM »
Thank you so much Kavan.

A few years ago, I had a tick bite that went wrong. Several weeks after, I had extrem pain in my knees, then my wrist, my ankle etc.
I was cured with Doxycycline a whole summer. Joint pain disappeared with the antibiotics (but I still have sometimes strange symptoms that quickly come and go). I was negative for Lyme but others stupid pathogens exist...

I saw on Dr G. website that he gives Doxycycline for his patient who have condylar resorption.
Systemic infections by increasing interleukins can induce this condition.

About Dr Wolford :  I saw bad reviews about him : people says that he replaces TMJ too easily.
But I will have a consultation anyway in order to have my own opinion.



 

kavan

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2017, 02:09:03 PM »
Thank you so much Kavan.

A few years ago, I had a tick bite that went wrong. Several weeks after, I had extrem pain in my knees, then my wrist, my ankle etc.
I was cured with Doxycycline a whole summer. Joint pain disappeared with the antibiotics (but I still have sometimes strange symptoms that quickly come and go). I was negative for Lyme but others stupid pathogens exist...

I saw on Dr G. website that he gives Doxycycline for his patient who have condylar resorption.
Systemic infections by increasing interleukins can induce this condition.

About Dr Wolford :  I saw bad reviews about him : people says that he replaces TMJ too easily.
But I will have a consultation anyway in order to have my own opinion.

Late stage Lyme disease (tick bite) can kick up a bunch of problems. They've got to go though a course of different anti-biotics, anti-malaria drugs and still the damned ticks carry other stuff. I think I have that too (systematic joint destruction). But my doc is as a FLAke and disregards. Also, big problem with infectious disease doctors NOT recognizing chronic Lyme (or other tick vector pathogens) and insurance plans not wanting to pay for Lyme literate doctors who treat with variety of AB cocktails.  Here is or of docs knowing about tick treatments:
www.ilads.org/

If it turns out you need the joint replacement (which wolford does), I know of a doc in Boston who is his protege and does the surgery. I won't mention name here but let me know IF it's determined you actually need that type of surgery.
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Framboise

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2017, 01:21:20 AM »
I just found out I was a headgear victim, which explains all my issue with my wisdom teeth removal.
It was the straw that broke the camels back....

Rico

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2017, 05:46:12 AM »
Hi everyone !

I used to like my face with round full cheek and cat eyes.

But, my dentist decided to remove my upper wisdom teeth last winter, because "third molars are useless". I have a class 2 and used to chew with them for years. But I have a cavity in one of them and have no choice....

Now, my face is a disaster.

My jaws, my chin and my cheeks have been receding. My soft tissue is collapsed : I have jowls instead of round cheeks. And because of the receding, my nose is now wider and upturned.
My eyes are more round, my eyelid lazy etc.

Besides the aesthetical effects, I have problems with my teeth : they have been movind forward and downward.

I have pain in my TMJ my knees and my back. Nobody understand why this happen.

I've been searching solutions for monthes.

I've seen Dr D. in Belgium who have offered me :
- a Trimax
- High cheek bone augmentation
- upper jaw extrusion

I'm not very happy with this, especially 4 mm advancement. I think it's not enough because I have No place for my thongue. I feel it'll just worsen my nose and my lips

Like many people, I would like to have a MLIII. I don't know why people keep secret which doctors offer it.

If anyone have suggestions, I will be happy


Sorry for my poor english ;)


it's called anxiety and you do not see yourself properly. Overreaction
It is not possible to get significant deformation after wisdom teeth removal. Only mild
problem in your head, not real

Framboise

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2017, 06:11:22 AM »
Rico, it's not anxiety at all lol, my family and my neighbours notice a drastic change too.
It happen because of my previous orthodontics.

I have sleep apnea now, it's not in my head at all. My jaws have been receding and my orthodontist agree with that.

Luckily I have ceph took just before the wisdom teeth removal and can have been compared with after ceph.

I think it's grotesque to say "it's all in your head". You don't know me and you have never seen me so, how can you judge ?
Maybe such effects do not happen usually with WT removal but with several molars removal, it doesn't mean that I'm imagining.

 

Framboise

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Re: Wisdom teeth removal f**d up my face and my health
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2017, 02:25:34 AM »
Good news : I have no longer TMJ disorder just because I've stopped wearing splints.

In a nutshell about orthodontics and extractions, to make things clearer :

- Headger for a class 2 : it stops the upper jaw growth, leading to flat cheeks and flaring upper teeth to compensate the recession. It can lead to TMJ disorder. First, it allows the lower jow to move a little forward, but then it stops, blocking by the upper jaw which is frozen in a receding place. So in the end, the profile is not good.

- Wisdom teeth removal : loss of bone in the three dimension : receding of the jaw, narrowing and loss of vertical dimension. For a man it's quite ok, it leads to a more mature look (althought less viril). For a woman : don't expect to age well . At 30 you will look like 40. The effects are propotionnal to the size of your face. The shorter your face is, the worse effects will occur.

- Headgear + WT removal + short vertical dimension = disaster.
Sleep apnea, pain, premature aging etc.

So, in some case, WT removal in itself have no dramatic effects at first especially if you remove them when you are young.

But a combinaison of factors can lead to a nightmare.