Long Maxilla but no Gummy Smile

[Eroica]

How did this guy's nose shorten so much? It looks like he had upper jaw advancement.

He didn't have an especially long nasal height to begin with. His midface was optically lengthened because of the drooping tip.

Let me add that it's utter nonsense that a man can't be attractive if he has a long midface. It's all about balance. Here are two men with very long midfaces who are extremely handsome. Why do they look good? Because they have the strong lower face and facial width to match.

[Eroica]

I posted a link asking for opinions on somebody with a severely retruded mandible, from a popular youtube video. Then I found speculation he might be diseased so I took it down and instead put the post you saw as I felt it would be in bad taste.

It isnt confirmed he had a disease, just speculated but I still felt it was in bad taste. If you are still curious though youtube "sodahead"

It's possible he has treacher collins syndrome.

[Jack]

He didn't have an especially long nasal height to begin with. His midface was optically lengthened because of the drooping tip.

Let me add that it's utter nonsense that a man can't be attractive if he has a long midface. It's all about balance. Here are two men with very long midfaces who are extremely handsome. Why do they look good? Because they have the strong lower face and facial width to match.

sorry but what you are completely ignoring here is how short the distance from the upper lip to the base of the nose is on both of these people. This is a dominant characteristic of attractive people, so sorry, if you measure the distance from the pupil to the upper lip, it's actually shorter than most men.

Second, both guys have wide-set eyes, AGAIN WIDE-SET EYES ARE VERY important for attractiveness because they make a longer face seem shorter. Yes, it's all about balance exactly. But there are certain proportions you CANNOT change, at least given current medical science. You cannot change the width of your eyes(crucial for beauty) and you cannot change the distance between pupil and upper lip really (there are lip lifts, but they produce HORRIBLE looking results).


 

[Eroica]

Unfortunately, you are absolutely wrong. Midface height IS nasal height. This is how it is defined by all physical anthropologists and maxillofacial surgeons. Infact the greater the nasal height, the SHORTER the distance between the nasal base and the upper lip generally is. A short midface is usually associated with a long upper lip/philtrum ala William H Macy.



By the way, the second dude has fairly close-set eyes, actually.

[Jack]

Unfortunately, you are absolutely wrong. Midface height IS nasal height. This is how it is defined by all physical anthropologists and maxillofacial surgeons. Infact the greater the nasal height, the SHORTER the distance between the nasal base and the upper lip generally is. A short midface is usually associated with a long upper lip/philtrum ala William H Macy.



By the way, the second dude has fairly close-set eyes, actually.

The second dude, Eric Balfour, I've actually met him at a club in LA, he's not really that good looking, what helps him is that he has very good skin and hair and his eyes are far apart enough that they mitigate the length of his face somewhat. It's like Arnett/Gunson say, beauty if based on two factors your bone structure and the quality of your skin/hair. That guy has amazing skin and hair --Arnett even writes, a weak chin(and presumably an overprojected one) will go unnoticed if the person has great hair and skin.

I still don't believe that beauty is subjective though. They've done tons and tons of tests on this with babies for example, cross culturally are attracted to the same proportioned faces. I mean if you have a long-face just ask someone if they think you're good looking, you'll have your answer either way.

[Jack]

cool story bro.

lol

[CK]

lol

tell it again.

[CoolStirfryBro]

Unfortunately, you are absolutely wrong. Midface height IS nasal height. This is how it is defined by all physical anthropologists and maxillofacial surgeons. Infact the greater the nasal height, the SHORTER the distance between the nasal base and the upper lip generally is. A short midface is usually associated with a long upper lip/philtrum ala William H Macy.

The midface is only the nasal height according to the rule of thirds, otherwise it's the region which comprises the nasal/cheek bones as well as the maxilla.

The "perceptive midface" is the region between your eyes and mouth - when someone says they have a "long midface", they are usually referring to this.

Short nasal height doesn't mean long philtrum, as that neglects all the cases where both the nasal height and philtrum are too long/short.

If the guy in your pic was to get an intense lip lift to reduce his philtrum, he would be left with overexposed gums and thus would need maxillary impaction.

[CoolStirfryBro]

sorry but what you are completely ignoring here is how short the distance from the upper lip to the base of the nose is on both of these people. This is a dominant characteristic of attractive people, so sorry, if you measure the distance from the pupil to the upper lip, it's actually shorter than most men.

Second, both guys have wide-set eyes, AGAIN WIDE-SET EYES ARE VERY important for attractiveness because they make a longer face seem shorter. Yes, it's all about balance exactly. But there are certain proportions you CANNOT change, at least given current medical science. You cannot change the width of your eyes(crucial for beauty) and you cannot change the distance between pupil and upper lip really (there are lip lifts, but they produce HORRIBLE looking results).

Azn guy has a heart-shaped face. Both his eyes and cheeks are wide set, this balances out his facial length and gives him an "intelligent" look.

Second guy isn't really that good looking at all. He has close-set eyes and a rectangular face, both of which only serve to make the overall face look longer. My first point of focus wasn't the midface though, but rather his nasal bridge and chin length.

Why do you think lip lifts produce horrible results? They're really the only hope in some people.

[Eroica]

Ashton Kutcher looks like an "alpha male" now? Lolz.

If we're dealing purely with physical characteristics, then this is what a alpha male looks like.

[neferkitti]

Good grief. Ashton Kutcher's chin looks ridicously long here. Has he always had this or did he get an implant?

[Heavyweight]

You can get a lip lift after maxillary impaction to get rid of the skin excess.

Is this just speculation, or have you seen it done? The maxilla is a huge bone, and I don't see how a lip lift (which raises only a small portion of the upper lip beneath the nose) would pick up the excess soft tissue in a patient who underwent maxillary impaction without an anatomical need for it. I suppose a facelift would be a better option, but that strikes me as quite impractical and extremely risky.

[fedfan]

Is this just speculation, or have you seen it done? The maxilla is a huge bone, and I don't see how a lip lift (which raises only a small portion of the upper lip beneath the nose) would pick up the excess soft tissue in a patient who underwent maxillary impaction without an anatomical need for it. I suppose a facelift would be a better option, but that strikes me as quite impractical and extremely risky.

You think this amount of soft tissue removed from the philtrum wouldn't be enough to compensante for the shorter maxillary height?
http://niamtu.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/untitled-21.jpg
http://www.sacramentoplastics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/bullhornsmall.jpg

[Hellojoe]

I personally wouldn't EVER play around with my soft tissue. It seems to rarely (if ever?) look natural. Also, I personally think there's a big difference between fixing something that has been under/over-developed, like your jaw, versus modifying parts of your face that has (presumably) grown into its genetically intended shape and size.

[x]

Does lip incompetence necessitate impaction or can the gap be closed by CCW? I guess to answer that question I l'd have to know what sort of growth causes the lip incompetence

I don't have a gummy smile but do have a rather large amount of lip incompetence (10-12 mm ballpark figure) and would rather not undergo impaction.

Ok it looks to be more around 8 mm