Appearance of youthfulness w/ retrognathic mandibles + impaction

[Optimistic]

People with retrognathic mandibles are often perceived as being younger than their biological age due to the fact that recessed chins are neotenous in nature. However, along with a retrognathic mandible comes the optical illusion of a smaller chin. For those of you who have one, you'll notice things like having a bit of a shadow cast around the edge of your chin, making it look a lot smaller. What I'm trying to establish is whether small chins (short in length) are also neotenous, or just recessed ones. Thoughts?

Moreover, I'm currently anxious about having jaw surgery as I don't think I'll like my appearance with a vertically longer chin. I understand facial thirds, and wouldn't want to go against that to any great amount, but have been thinking that some impaction of the lower jaw could retain a bit of my youthful appearance as well as minimise the post-surgery shock of my lower-third being different.

People who have a hard time getting used to their faces post-op are probably struggling with the fact that they don't have these small, cute, child-like chins anymore, and instead have rather normal, proportional faces that reflect their true age better. Finally, in some unfortunate cases I've also seen people with lower thirds that are too long post-op, and undefined chins. I'd say this has more to do with poor aesthetic taste of the surgeon than an inherent risk of jaw surgery.

[MrRochester]

Do you have any pictures of a male that looks worse after surgery and has a lower third that is too long and disproportioned? I cannot recall having ever seen this on a male although I have seen some questionable cases with women. You can PM the pictures if you're not comfortable calling someone's surgery bad publicly on the forum.

I agree that a recessed chin will certainly create the impression of an underdeveloped, immature and thereby younger face (for example, Jay Baruchel and Joseph Gordon-Levitt). However, I don't think this is at all desirable as a man and certainly is not sexually attractive to women based upon the studies I've read.

[notrain]

I agree that a recessed chin will certainly create the impression of an underdeveloped, immature and thereby younger face (for example, Jay Baruchel and Joseph Gordon-Levitt).

I agree WRT to Jay Baruchel, but JGL has a good chin and normal facial proportions:


Also, the youthful look comes from small jaws and not necessarily the small chin. If you have the jaw size of a 14 year old, you will always look young (note: YOUNG but not attractive).

[overbiter]

I agree WRT to Jay Baruchel, but JGL has a good chin and normal facial proportions:

Yes, Joseph Gordon Levitt has a strong jawline. That is why he is a movie star. In real life he is short, so is a lot less attractive. In movies it doesn't matter though. So he gets away with it.

Also, the youthful look comes from small jaws and not necessarily the small chin. If you have the jaw size of a 14 year old, you will always look young (note: YOUNG but not attractive).

This may be true of men but not necessarily women. A lot of women with small jaws look ok. Not better than if they had good jawlines, just different. Not many men with weak jawlines/chins look good though. If they do they are incredibly lucky.

[Tiny]

Short chins are neotenous, too.  Kids have round faces, and short chins, and a reduced lower 1/3rd of the face compared to adults.  Having a short chin also pushes all the fat up into your cheeks.

I hate my short chin and my round face - hate it!!  Definitely looking forward to more length.  I am 27 next month and in all seriousness, most people put my age as 23 at the most.  I even get asked if I am still in highschool.

WJB I think you're over thinking things a bit, you're a guy, you don't have to worry about ageing!!! 

[notrain]

WJB I think you're over thinking things a bit, you're a guy, you don't have to worry about ageing!!! 

I agree. With men, it's basically attractive vs. unattractive. It doesn't really matter if you are young and unattractive, an old, attractive guy will still be more desirable. For women, youth is very important. Even the prettiest celebreties tend to look like s**t once they hit 35-40.

[Optimistic]

I agree. With men, it's basically attractive vs. unattractive. It doesn't really matter if you are young and unattractive, an old, attractive guy will still be more desirable. For women, youth is very important. Even the prettiest celebreties tend to look like s**t once they hit 35-40.

I don't really want to argue this here, though I do disagree.

George Clooney only attracts middle-aged women, whereas the younger stars attract younger women. Youth seems pretty important for everyone, even if it is true that men age a bit better than women.

[Optimistic]

WARNING! THESE ARE MODELS BECAUSE THEY PROVIDE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT AND ARE EASY TO FIND PHOTOS OF. NO, IT DOESN'T MEAN WHATEVER YOU THINK IT MIGHT.

Here is an example of a well-developed mandible with a vertically short chin:



Forget that he looks like a girl and all that, I still think it makes him look very young. In fact, I don't mind this type of look.

Two less androgynous looking males with vertically short chins:



Vertically longer chin:

[notrain]

yes, it makes him look young but more importantly he is sexually unattractive because he looks like a 19yo girl.

and lol @ the george clooney comment. have you seen his last three girlfriends? they were all young and hot, certainly better looking than all my girlfriends i had since i was 15. yeah, obviously clooney won't attract 16 year old schoolgirls, but who the hell wants that anyway?

my point is, that an unattractive young guy will only attract unattractive young girls (or older unattractive ones) whereas an attractive older guy will attract attractive members of the opposite sex YOUNGER than him AND the same age as him. but more important than age is the fact that he will have attractive partners overall whereas the young unattractive guy will never have access to attractive girls regardless of his age.

sorry, i don't think we will reach any meaningful consensus on this.

[overbiter]

and lol @ the george clooney comment. have you seen his last three girlfriends? they were all young and hot, certainly better looking than all my girlfriends i had since i was 15. yeah, obviously clooney won't attract 16 year old schoolgirls, but who the hell wants that anyway?

Lots of men lol, and for all you know he gets them anyway.

WARNING! THESE ARE MODELS BECAUSE THEY PROVIDE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT AND ARE EASY TO FIND PHOTOS OF. NO, IT DOESN'T MEAN WHATEVER YOU THINK IT MIGHT.


Forget that he looks like a girl and all that, I still think it makes him look very young. In fact, I don't mind this type of look.

You actually want to look like this? Freaky.

[Lazlo]

another retarded thread.

[dantheman]

That's a guy??? Looks like Avicii's female equivalent.

[Tiny]

Pejić is transgendered but not transexual.  Biological sex is male but she identifies her gender as 'female' or 'neutral'.  Sex and gender really are not biologically cut, dried and packaged into 'male' and 'female'.  The brain (the root of gender) is a complicated organ.

Actually I think that Pejić is an extremely beautiful person and if you read his/her interviews, (s)he sounds very balanced, eloquent and intelligent. She is also interesting in that she's a living example of how similar male and female fashion models really look and indeed how little variation there is in 'model beautiful' faces.  However her lower facial third/chin does not look short to me - looks balanced

However, while (s)he is beautiful and a great model, there is a large part of me that objects to her modelling women's clothing.  It's bad enough that designers are so lazy (/repulsed by actual female curves) that they use very skinny, pre-pubertal women as runway models, now instead of being content with using female models who look like adolescent boys, they're using actual adolescent boys.  Honestly I have had it up to they eyeballs with clothing that could not be worn by anyone with an actual womanly figure (ie, hips and a bust). 

Regarding the actual thread topic, WJB honestly I think you're splitting hairs.  Men at 35 have a much greater choice of women than men under 25.  There are 1000 other things that are going to age a face/body more.  A lot of 'baby-faced' people don't really look literally younger and if they do it's often because they are retaining more facial fat than their peers.  Yes a baby-faced 25-year old might look a few years younger but once you get to 35 or 40 I don't think it makes much difference, and to be honest who cares about 2 years on or off your age, especially if you're a guy?!  Also, a longer face is more 'masculine'.
Pointless thread is pointless...honestly for guys, getting older is usually a good thing until at least 40

[Optimistic]

Pejić is transgendered but not transexual.  Biological sex is male but she identifies her gender as 'female' or 'neutral'.  Sex and gender really are not biologically cut, dried and packaged into 'male' and 'female'.  The brain (the root of gender) is a complicated organ.

Actually I think that Pejić is an extremely beautiful person and if you read his/her interviews, (s)he sounds very balanced, eloquent and intelligent. She is also interesting in that she's a living example of how similar male and female fashion models really look and indeed how little variation there is in 'model beautiful' faces.  However her lower facial third/chin does not look short to me - looks balanced

However, while (s)he is beautiful and a great model, there is a large part of me that objects to her modelling women's clothing.  It's bad enough that designers are so lazy (/repulsed by actual female curves) that they use very skinny, pre-pubertal women as runway models, now instead of being content with using female models who look like adolescent boys, they're using actual adolescent boys.  Honestly I have had it up to they eyeballs with clothing that could not be worn by anyone with an actual womanly figure (ie, hips and a bust). 

Regarding the actual thread topic, WJB honestly I think you're splitting hairs.  Men at 35 have a much greater choice of women than men under 25.  There are 1000 other things that are going to age a face/body more.  A lot of 'baby-faced' people don't really look literally younger and if they do it's often because they are retaining more facial fat than their peers.  Yes a baby-faced 25-year old might look a few years younger but once you get to 35 or 40 I don't think it makes much difference, and to be honest who cares about 2 years on or off your age, especially if you're a guy?!  Also, a longer face is more 'masculine'.
Pointless thread is pointless...honestly for guys, getting older is usually a good thing until at least 40

I'm not going to argue the gender thing. Regardless of how it's been redefined, you're literally saying 2+2=5. He is a man. He is a male.

Andrej is more an example of the once-popular androgynous look, if you ask me. Most male models don't look that way these days.

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I really didn't want to get into this argument EITHER, however it has been forced so here goes...

What are you talking about a man at 35 has a greater choice of women than men under 25? Never mind that that actually doesn't make any sense as with age more and more enter into marriages or long-term relationships. The good ones with degrees and/or who are religious are very unlikely to divorce too - the ones you actually want to marry. The pool DECREASES over time. Options decrease.

Age is everything. Youth is beauty. As a man you want to date a young woman because well, they're -more attractive-. Not only that, they will bear better children with fewer problems. Now for the shocking truth: Men have an EXCEPTIONALLY hard time dating women much younger than them. 99.9% of men are not hollywood actors with billions of dollars. They're average people with average faces. No young woman in her right mind will choose an uglier male who's out of his prime. Even biologically a young male will provide her with the best offspring possible.

Sorry, but what you're saying is absolutely ridiculous. Walk around the city, look at couples, go to universities, any place where young women go and guess what? They aren't fawning over the 38 year old government worker with an average face and the onset of male pattern baldness. They want the young, verile man who is in shape.

[Nevermind]

I'm not going to argue the gender thing. Regardless of how it's been redefined, you're literally saying 2+2=5. He is a man. He is a male.

Andrej is more an example of the once-popular androgynous look, if you ask me. Most male models don't look that way these days.

---

I really didn't want to get into this argument EITHER, however it has been forced so here goes...

What are you talking about a man at 35 has a greater choice of women than men under 25? Never mind that that actually doesn't make any sense as with age more and more enter into marriages or long-term relationships. The good ones with degrees and/or who are religious are very unlikely to divorce too - the ones you actually want to marry. The pool DECREASES over time. Options decrease.

Age is everything. Youth is beauty. As a man you want to date a young woman because well, they're -more attractive-. Not only that, they will bear better children with fewer problems. Now for the shocking truth: Men have an EXCEPTIONALLY hard time dating women much younger than them. 99.9% of men are not hollywood actors with billions of dollars. They're average people with average faces. No young woman in her right mind will choose an uglier male who's out of his prime. Even biologically a young male will provide her with the best offspring possible.

Sorry, but what you're saying is absolutely ridiculous. Walk around the city, look at couples, go to universities, any place where young women go and guess what? They aren't fawning over the 38 year old government worker with an average face and the onset of male pattern baldness. They want the young, verile man who is in shape.

Well according to medical science older men can too bring their fair share of  problems to the table. http://healthland.time.com/2013/04/11/too-old-to-be-a-dad/.  There is more to beauty than age, the right features are essential. Women who possess high cheek bones, striking eyes, fuller lips , good skin and who are in shape will always be deemed more attractive. There are  beautiful women  as well as those who would be considered  average who are 30 plus , the same can be said for those in their 20's , some are average and some well beyond.   There are many people out there that are not hung up on age so one should never have a problem dating someone younger if they wished.