Author Topic: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW  (Read 14165 times)

Sharptoys

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2012, 01:14:59 AM »
My prediction is that within the next 5-10 years this is going to become the norm, and jaw surgery will be carefully phased out.


I hate to be that guy, but do you have a source?

Seems like you can in fact exhibit a far greater degree of precise control over what parts you want lengthened and how with these new intraoral distracting devices.

Again, source?
 
Traditional orthognathic surgery is still used precisely because osseous segments can be repositioned accurately and instantly.

jawless

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2012, 06:35:52 AM »
What exactly do you hope to accomplish by capturing 'human perfection'? Even if you get your v-jawline it probably won't look natural cause your face biologically isn't that shape. My guess is you'll never be happy with the results unless you adjust your expectations.

I don't know what you mean about "capturing 'human perfection'", I didn't comment on that thread I posted, I was just using it as an example that you can widen the lower jaw.

I'm not trying to look perfect by the way, alythough that would be nice (probably impossible). I just want to look normal, to me that means having a "slightly" wider jaw.

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2012, 09:17:26 AM »
I don't know what you mean about "capturing 'human perfection'", I didn't comment on that thread I posted, I was just using it as an example that you can widen the lower jaw.

I'm not trying to look perfect by the way, alythough that would be nice (probably impossible). I just want to look normal, to me that means having a "slightly" wider jaw.
Well you're recent comment that we're all laughing at sure seemed to suggest you had delusions of grandeur. I mean most of us here like to stay within the realm of reality.

jawless

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2012, 10:17:55 AM »
Reality means being true to yourself my friend. If you were in touch with reality you wouldn't be visiting jaw surgery websites and dreaming about having a different face.

Lazlo

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2012, 07:24:07 PM »


I hate to be that guy, but do you have a source?

Again, source?
 
Traditional orthognathic surgery is still used precisely because osseous segments can be repositioned accurately and instantly.

Oh no you're correct sharptoys. No source on this, that's why I said it was my "prediction," and just a speculation. Though I must say I do have several sources for devices that are being developed which allow for greater control and accuracy than the distraction devices available in the past decade. Moreover, if you do any google search on the term, you'll find distraction osteogenesis for many, many different applications is one of the most exciting areas of body augmentation out there. So I predict this technology is going to start making a major impact in the near future, especially for cosmetic purposes.

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2012, 07:44:23 PM »
Reality means being true to yourself my friend. If you were in touch with reality you wouldn't be visiting jaw surgery websites and dreaming about having a different face.
Uh, no. Reality means reality. I have the means to change my face and hopefully correct the issues. I want a normal face, that's it. Seems most jaw surgery at least accomplishes that. That's the reality of the situation.

Lazlo

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2012, 08:56:31 PM »
Uh, no. Reality means reality. I have the means to change my face and hopefully correct the issues. I want a normal face, that's it. Seems most jaw surgery at least accomplishes that. That's the reality of the situation.


Again, you're more than free to begin a separate thread dedicated to your epistemological speculations about the nature of "reality" If you wish. I can start you off by suggesting you wiki nominalist, naturalist, empiricist, post-modern/socially constructed, idealist, pragmatist etc.. positions. This thread is dedicated to DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS.

I really DO NOT UNDERSTAND what the big deal is with some of you people!!?? Some people just want to normalize their face....good for you! Some people may already have "normal-ish" faces and want to use jaw surgery as a means to attain some kind of aesthetic ideal...and good for you too!  No one side is morally justified (or the many, indeed most people who exist somewhere between these polarities) in condemning the other with regards to their motivations.
Indeed, I would say that most everyone would like to maximize the aesthetic outcome of this operation.

I started this thread for people who are interested in the possibilities of distraction osteogenesis and it's aesthetic advantages and applications (if any!) --clearly there are doctors using this technology both in place of jaw surgery and to supplement the augmentation of other parts of the face related to jaw surgery. Indeed it's more widespread than we assume and more specific applications may be available in the future, but that's no reason we shouldn't keep an open mind about it and discuss it.

I for one believe that technologies for major aesthetic enhancement are currently in existence, but you have to be very careful about what procedures, surgeons etc. you use. For example, if you didn't know about maxillofacial surgery you might go to a PS as I did a few years back and get recommended a chin implant. I did a bit of research thankfully and found out that genioplasties are far superior both aesthetically and in relation to various health parameters than a genioplasty. I further found out that a BSSO could approximate many of the results of jaw angle implants, though not in all directions (i.e. width or gonal angle shape). I had teeth extracted by my ortho, but had I known about distraction osteogenesis I would have most certainly had that done first to make space for my crowded teeth instead of extractions, then I might have gone on and had traditional jaw surgery.

The point is, this site is a place for free discussion and indeed criticism(with evidence on both sides) but more often the discussion is devolving into ad hominem attacks based on the presumption that some people are harbouring "unrealistic" or more probably socially unsanctioned aspirations. I really don't care whether you aspire to look normal, heroic, subhuman, or monstrous, I just want to get a clearer sense of what  technologies  for craniofacial remodelling are out there and what they can do.  

For those interested, "beauty," in my understanding is a "gestalt" that is, it is predominantly relational. I agree you cannot simply attain aesthetic harmony by augmenting one part of your face, though for some it may be all they need to complete the ideal gestalt. For others, tweaking or augmenting other parts of the face may be necessary which is why I think distraction osteogenesis needs to be thought about in relation to overall craniofacial remodelling.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 09:27:29 PM by Lazlo »

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2012, 09:00:10 PM »

Again, you're more than free to begin a separate thread dedicated to your epistemological speculations about the nature of "reality" If you wish. I can start you off by suggesting you wiki nominalist, naturalist, empiricist, post-modern/socially constructed, idealist, pragmatist etc.. positions. This thread is dedicated to DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS.

Do me a favor and give it a rest. This is the second time jack's directed a post at me, I've responded to it, and then you've called me out for merely responding to him. You are not an admin on these forums, you don't have the power to tell me what I can and can't post.

You are free to discuss whatever you want. If someone quotes me though, I'm going to respond. Feel free to ignore my posts if it gives you peace of mind.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 10:00:04 PM by Euphoria »

Lazlo

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2012, 09:08:13 PM »
Do me a favor and shut the f**k up. This is the second time jack's directed a post at me, I've responded to it, and then you've called me out for merely responding to him. You are not an admin on these forums, you don't have the power to tell me what I can and can't post.

You are free to discuss whatever you want. If someone quotes me though, I'm going to respond. Feel free to ignore my posts if it gives you peace of mind.

I don't believe you're following the forum decorum.  see following:

http://jawsurgeryforums.com/general-chat/forum-decorum/

x

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2012, 09:20:42 PM »
I don't believe you're following the forum decorum.  see following:

http://jawsurgeryforums.com/general-chat/forum-decorum/
As much as you'd like it that way, I don't think this place is run like Nazi Germany. The nature in which you police threads makes me think you're new to forums, or simply lack the ability to ignore posts that aren't pertinent to what you're trying to find out. So a.) get over it, and b.) stop baiting me by calling me out.

Secondly, you make a bunch of erroneous assumptions about me and my thought process in all this. No, I don't use "unrealistic" and "aesthetic ideal" interchangeably, you have nothing to go on except the posts I've made in this thread. Everything I said was directed at jack and his expectations, you are well within your rights to get surgery for whatever reason you see fit, so stop taking everything I say so damn personally.

Lazlo

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2012, 09:23:27 PM »
For those of you who are interested distraction osteogenesis is now commonly used in advanced orthodontic practices to grow more jawbone to fit in implants. This suggests to me that it renders the need for most extractions(a process I unfortunately was the victim of).

http://www.drsmilneandbozich.com/procedures/distraction-osteogenesis.asp

Lazlo

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2012, 09:33:31 PM »
And I was correct, it has in fact already been done several years ago. If your ortho is recommending extractions of all four biscuspids, you might want to find an ortho and/or surgeon combo who would be willing to do this instead --aesthetically the results would be FAR superior and you can still continue on with traditional jaw surgery.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15024792

Lazlo

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2012, 01:55:05 AM »
Three surgeons here in Toronto Dr. Stephen Ho
Dr. Tocchio, Dr. CLokie --also head of max fac residency here in Toronto.
Spoken to Schendel on phone. Have Gunson/Arnett and Schendel apps next month.
Spoke to Dr. Kawamoto (student of Tessier as was Schendel) over the phone and he told me some interesting things as well,
suggested as far as possible never get implants of any kind, try and use your own bone whenever possible.
Admittedly, I have not raised the topic of distraction osteogenesis yet or the quadrangular Lefort 1 because I have only learned of them recently.
Had a virtual consultation with Mommaerts who analyzed my ceph and photos from every angle and bite --he said he could advance the malar complex and it
a routine, low risk procedure.
I will be especially interested to see what Schendel, and Keller at the Mayo clinic have to say about quadrangular lefort 1 and malar osteotomies or distraction.

Sharptoys

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2012, 02:40:22 AM »
Three surgeons here in Toronto Dr. Stephen Ho
Dr. Tocchio, Dr. CLokie --also head of max fac residency here in Toronto.

Fantastic! Did they diagnose you with anything particular? Or perhaps suggestions for operations?

Lazlo

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Re: MORE ON DISTRACTION OSTEOGENESIS FOR JAW
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2012, 02:50:11 AM »
Fantastic! Did they diagnose you with anything particular? Or perhaps suggestions for operations?

yes, one suggested just bsso with genioplasty, one suggested bi-max, no genioplasty, and one suggested bsso without genio.
one suggested implants for malar region,  the other suggested malar osteotomy plus ha paste. (along with bsso).

I had only a class one, slightly retrusive lower jaw, which i belive the ortho treatement has made worse (sorry typos, typing without glasses)