Facial muscles' role in shaping the face

[x]

anyone have any articles that discuss this and how it would effect post-op stability?


I imagine large or improperly positioned masseter or buccinator muscles could lead to transverse maxillary relapse, maybe even more problems

[CK]

this seriously interests me since my muscle development was well outside of normal realm by multiple factors.

can this lead to relapse of the upper jaw? how would that happen? i know relapse can occur if the upper jaw is used too much early in the recovery, eating, chewing, whatever. but after...?

if your upper face didnt grow properly then it is guaranteed the muscles will not be synched properly with the soft tissue and its relationship with the hard tissue becomes compromised. i would say surgery is more likely to make things worse since only the bones can be manipulated not the soft tissue. right?

perhaps this is why some people look kind of funny when they talk before and after surgery. their speech and verbal habits are fighting against the muscle and soft tissue placement instead of working with it. how the mouth controls sounds and shapes the pronunciation of words and inflecting is highly dependent on muscle support.

[x]

this seriously interests me since my muscle development was well outside of normal realm by multiple factors.

can this lead to relapse of the upper jaw? how would that happen? i know relapse can occur if the upper jaw is used too much early in the recovery, eating, chewing, whatever. but after...?

if the tongue isn't naturally resting in the palate at rest then the buccinator muscle is unopposed in it's forces against the maxilla, which causes it to constrict. that's how transverse maxillary deficiency often occurs in the first place. that's why it's so important to follow up on retraining habits to avoid relapse.

if all of your muscles didn't develop in tandem with a normal occlusion, you have to wonder how they will react to a new jaw placement. I would venture to say the larger the movements, the more soft tissue opposition you will encounter.

[CK]

if the tongue isn't naturally resting in the palate at rest then the buccinator muscle is unopposed in it's forces against the maxilla, which causes it to constrict. that's how transverse maxillary deficiency often occurs in the first place. that's why it's so important to follow up on retraining habits to avoid relapse.

if all of your muscles didn't develop in tandem with a normal occlusion, you have to wonder how they will react to a new jaw placement. I would venture to say the larger the movements, the more soft tissue opposition you will encounter.

hmmm, i wonder how true this is. any research at all on this? my tongue rests on the palate, but it isnt exactly stable of natural. the retainer gets in the way of proper tongue placement since the tongue is in an awkward position.

[x]

hmmm, i wonder how true this is. any research at all on this? my tongue rests on the palate, but it isnt exactly stable of natural. the retainer gets in the way of proper tongue placement since the tongue is in an awkward position.

I read it in a paper that went into a great detail how malocclusions develop but can't seem to find it. will post it if I do

[x]

here you go CK:

"inferior and anterior repositioning of the tongue has several dental effects, including narrowing of the maxillary dental arch caused by the unopposed action of the buccinator muscle, retroclination of the upper incisors caused by unopposed actions  of orbiscularis oris, and proclination of the lower incisors caused by increased tongue pressure."

[CK]

narrowing of the dental arch? meaning?

my muscles were already weak, if not weaker prior to surgery. i know my whole face grew unnaturally. face is like a jenga puzzle you start pulling out pieces and eventually it falls a part. every little piece has an affect in the game.

if only people were aware just how sensitive growth is then so many wouldnt need or consider surgery. im surprised how so few people are upset about this.

[x]

narrowing of the dental arch? meaning?

my muscles were already weak, if not weaker prior to surgery. i know my whole face grew unnaturally. face is like a jenga puzzle you start pulling out pieces and eventually it falls a part. every little piece has an affect in the game.

if only people were aware just how sensitive growth is then so many wouldnt need or consider surgery. im surprised how so few people are upset about this.

meaning transverse maxillary deficiency, a narrow arch. what SARPE is used to treat

I'm not convinced surgery during early years can 'reroute growth'. if the culprit is environmental (like enlarged adenoids or thumb sucking) and is dealt with early then the face should grow naturally in theory after the obstruction is removed

[CK]

i agree i think surgery cannot reroute growth although it is clear surgery has shown measures of success based on what is posted here. especially that one kid who had d.o i dont have a link.

the best treatment is just recognizing the signs and disrupting the environmental causes before the growth becomes unstoppable. so many dentists and orthos have a very casual attitude towards children. just slap on some braces and rip out teeth and everything will be awesome possum. now where is my money?

[x]

i agree i think surgery cannot reroute growth although it is clear surgery has shown measures of success based on what is posted here. especially that one kid who had d.o i dont have a link.

the best treatment is just recognizing the signs and disrupting the environmental causes before the growth becomes unstoppable. so many dentists and orthos have a very casual attitude towards children. just slap on some braces and rip out teeth and everything will be awesome possum. now where is my money?

surgery only replicates growth and is a sucky alternative, but it's the best some people can do

surgeons are equally stupid, I'd say 95% of them are convinced it's "just genetics" cause recognizing and treating the environmental causes early means people actually grow up with normal occlusions, and that's bad for business.

[CK]

surgery only replicates growth and is a sucky alternative, but it's the best some people can do

surgeons are equally stupid, I'd say 95% of them are convinced it's "just genetics" cause recognizing and treating the environmental causes early means people actually grow up with normal occlusions, and that's bad for business.

i feel like orthos have started to invent reasons for kids to receive treatment. you have to wonder just how many people truly need braces and the various pressure/force appliances used as part of the treatment plan.

jaw surgery has way more credibility but orthodontics is slowly becoming irrelevant. since surgeons rarely interact with children and are focused on the now rather than the what if, it doesnt surprise many are so indifferent to the causes.

but normal dentists and orthos dont have much of an excuse.

[anglii]

if all of your muscles didn't develop in tandem with a normal occlusion, you have to wonder how they will react to a new jaw placement. I would venture to say the larger the movements, the more soft tissue opposition you will encounter.

I'm living proof of that! Double jaw surgery worst decision of my life!!!! Although I wasn't given any informed consent at all so wasn't really my decision. Treatment plan was for lower jaw surgery only. When I showed up at the hospital the surgeon sprung the upper jaw on me because of a so called " gummy smile" which I never noticed before  ... As a 19 year old I trusted the surgeon to know more than me. I haven't been able to look at myself since! I'm 49 now.

[Cmonster]

I'm living proof of that! Double jaw surgery worst decision of my life!!!! Although I wasn't given any informed consent at all so wasn't really my decision. Treatment plan was for lower jaw surgery only. When I showed up at the hospital the surgeon sprung the upper jaw on me because of a so called " gummy smile" which I never noticed before  ... As a 19 year old I trusted the surgeon to know more than me. I haven't been able to look at myself since! I'm 49 now.

Yikes :/ Im sorry to hear this, but did you ever consider going to another surgeon to "un-do" what was originally done. Living with a face you hate for however long is just heavy. What exactly were you told and what specifically bothers you about it... ?