Author Topic: Radiation  (Read 2609 times)

Rico

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Radiation
« on: September 24, 2015, 05:13:25 PM »
I had CT and X-Ray of the the head
and I'm gonna have CBCT or CT in 2 months

All scans of the head within 3 years . Is not too much ?

I'm afraid of too much radiation which significantly increases risk of a cancer

What do you know about that issue ? (radiation)

Rico

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2015, 03:32:16 AM »
what about CBCT ?

even 150 X-rays.. i'm really worried

is there any detailed scanning which can show skull bones without so huge radiation ?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 03:56:10 AM by Rico :) »

molestrip

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2015, 11:24:01 PM »
Not to add to your anxieties Rico but radiation also impacts growth and ability to heal. Surgery is riskier in people who've been exposed to a lot of radiation in other words. I know a Radiologist and he said not worry unless you're getting more than 1 CT / year. Risks for cat scans are variable but the head is a relatively good spot. The cross section of the head is low as is scatter radiation. Cells reproduce slowly there too. Age matters too, younger is worse because the damage will spread as cells reproduce and cells are reproducing more in general.

A CBCT is equivalent to about 11 days of background radiation. A medical CT of the head is about 10 times that so about 3mo of radiation. Radiation from today's scanners is orders of magnitude less than a few decades ago. I don't understand it well but I hear it's not really 150 x-rays, knowing that they're going to be stitched together they can save radiation in various ways. This stuff is largely interesting two groups - those who study the effects of radiation on populations and those who are receiving megadoses of it for chronic conditions. The surgery itself is much more likely to cause you problems. It gets written about a lot because, all things equal, yeah less is better.

It's probably also useful to point out that there are many normal people who are regularly receiving far more radiation than you're getting here, people like airline pilots and those living in places like Denver. Businessmen who travel a lot and doctors/dentists can be exposed to a lot too. Astronauts... now that's insane radiation! The greatest source of radiation in this country is not even medical imaging, it's radon gas. I like my air exchanger.

You know, it's not even clear what the impact of low level radiation is. My understanding is that most of the models are based on data from nuclear bombs and the radiation we receive today is quite different and in different magnitudes. There's one theory out there that low level radiation like from a CT scan may in fact be protective by stimulating DNA repair mechanisms that would otherwise lay dormant under background radiation. I wouldn't bank on it but it's comforting to read lol. To date, I've had 3-4 medical CTs of my head, 1 of my pelvis, and 3-4 CBCTs plus normal imaging from dentists. I still have a full head of hair and multiple kids.

That or maybe I'm just trying to make myself feel better :D Cheers!

Rico

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2015, 01:25:17 PM »
thx :) 

molestrip

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2015, 10:43:04 AM »
Found this article today. The amount of radiation we're receiving is large and notable. It's also amounts obtainable through other life circumstances. I guess that's why my brother says not to worry at 1/yr or less, the link to cancer isn't well known. The annual exposure limit for radiation workers is 20-100mSv/yr, depending on citing source, and I'm certainly under that and yet there's no evidence of increased cancer rates among those workers. That's because the lowest dose clearly linked to cancer is 100mSv. Still, knowing what I know (and should have known when the pelvic CT was ordered), for the most part we're otherwise healthy people and the odds of having real health problems is very small. The odds of having health problems from radiation is also probably very small but I suspect larger than the odds of having other problems in the first place.

In light of this, my position at this point is not to do imaging to pursue abnormalities. You saw a bulge in my bladder that MIGHT be a tumor? Whatever, it could be anything. It could be stool. It could be anatomy. I'm 35 and the odds of having a tumor worth worrying about there are very, very small. The odds that your imaging would cause problems later is less small. This is why conservative doctors don't like ordering tests. One test leads to another leads to another. And once they discover something, they feel compelled to pursue it for malpractice reasons if nothing else. That's why it's important to be up front with doctors, no imaging unless it's clearly linked to some gain and I don't want to be told about incidental findings unless they're sure it's a problem.

terry947

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2015, 02:16:44 PM »
The amount of things that cause cancer is ridiculous. Getting some radiation from X-rays is my last worry.

How about the water we drink, the air we breathe, the food we eat or even the things we touch like plastic and things covered in other chemicals. Plus if one were to get cancer you can't link it to radiation caused by X-rays/ct scans.

Rico

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2015, 03:04:31 PM »
when you irritate your mucous membrane in mouth and generally in digestive tract, the risk of cancer increase significantly (of course it means something like from 0.5 to 1% :P  ), especially for men

remember about that if you eat too hot food, drink a lot of alcohol and you are older than 40

an example how easily you can get cancer :) and how unpredictible it is ..just random thing

I think if you avoid sun bathes for a 3 years (I guess) , then you can get your credit back which was reduced by CT :P
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 03:17:54 PM by Rico :) »

molestrip

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2015, 12:25:09 PM »
Agreed, confounding factors like good sleep, good eating habits, and not smoking/drinking are also big ones. Radiation is just another method of damaging cells, no different than chronic reflux or other chronic conditions. However, it hits all the cells in a cross section unlike these other problems. Radiation from the sun doesn't penetrate deeply either. .5% is way too large a risk when it comes to gambling with life. With 25mSv exposure total, I'm told my odds increased by .2% though probably somewhat higher when you consider the localized effects. That aside, it's not just that you're risking death but what kind of death. A .5% chance of a sudden cardiac arrest is one thing. Years of inescapable agony is a whole other thing. Hopefully by that point assisted suicide will be more acceptable and/or treatments will become more tolerable. The common cancers don't look too terrible, it's just the kinds of cancers these things seem to cause. I'd take breast cancer over brain or bone cancer for instance.

What I was told is that it's a large dose of radiation, especially relative to background radiation. But the effects are still controversial and it hasn't been definitely proven to be harmful. Some people believe the body is capable of repairing occasional large doses of radiation with no long term ill effects. Others think it gradually builds up, no one knows. The radiologist I know says we don't even know typically how much radiation we've gotten, as it needs to be calculated by a physicist. We just know the averages. Looking around some more, this page has some really nice information. Basically, I'm still at a point that with some minor lifestyle changes, I could have gotten equivalent amounts of radiation. Living in a different city, choosing different career, etc. My untreated sleep apnea for many years with associated reflux is probably still a far, far greater risk factor to me but the radiation is scarier as I said. The CBCTs are closer to 1/5 the radiation of a medical scan btw, 200uSv - 1000mSv. That's not small either.

I don't know if there's any truth to it but rumor has it Russians administered spirulina as a treatment for radiation sickness. It's a very potent antioxidant that I guess helps to contain the damage caused by radiation from spreading to neighboring cells. It's never been studied in the US to my knowledge and Russians never published a lot of the studies that led to treatments like these but I suspect they did them, they had a lot of incentive to get it right. Phage therapy was common there, for example, but ignored in the US due to the advent of antibiotics but now that they're becoming less effective Western scientists are revisiting this age old Russian technology for fighting infections and it looks very promising. Anyway, Spirulina is readily available in health stores and is a decent thing to be eating anyway so I say give it a shot around your exposures, along with vitamin C and generally nutritious food and good sleep habits.

I'm just annoyed because many of my scans were unnecessary. Computer locking up isn't a great reason to give a child a second CT scan, I don't think my parents explored many options before jumping to that either. Another from an ER doc who knew everything would be fine but wanted to CYA. Another by a surgeon who was offering unnecessary surgery. The pelvic scan happened because the urologist asked me right after doing the cystoscopy which way I wanted to go. It hurt like hell and I made a decision on the spot but he should have known better. It's just not indicated and he shouldn't have even offered that option. I think as a general rule, avoid emergency rooms like the plague unless you know the ER doc personally and whenever imaging is offered, just say no. If it's really that important, the doctor will insist and then, let them know you'll think about it and maybe even get a 2nd opinion. Treat a CT scan like a surgical procedure. Sure, everyone will think you're insane but all the evidence indicates that its the doctors who are negligent here. It's just way too easy for doctors to light us up in this country.

Another way to look at it is, it prunes the weak and only the strong survive lol :D
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 12:34:46 PM by molestrip »

dantheman

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2015, 08:07:38 PM »
Remember the following:

We all are irradiated constantly by virtue of background cosmic radiation.

Cancer risks are dose dependent, to the best of our knowledge.

Every day on earth and every minute in an airplane carry with them a radiation dose.

At the end of the day, none of us are irradiated for fun.

You didn't choose the card you were dealt in life, you are simply weighing benefits and risks.

I am optimistic that the ends more than justify the means and the benefits far exceed any risks.

Rico

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Re: Radiation
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2015, 10:49:56 AM »
ok thx :)  please take a look into my thread about sinus infection.. in General Section