Author Topic: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?  (Read 16041 times)

eastcoastian1

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Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« on: October 07, 2015, 04:07:55 PM »
Hi everyone,

I have a bit of an overbite which I think is causing the lack of a masculine jawline and bit of receded chin. I'm trying to decide whether or not the best approach would be jaw advancement surgery which is quite involved, or chin/jaw implants which, while still involved, is a bit less dramatic of procedures. Would you give me your feedback based on my photos? Really seeking a more masculine facial profile......

http://imageshack.com/a/img909/479/e7qzNN.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img912/5815/986jZA.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img912/6939/is94bb.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img631/360/sjg6st.jpg

Bobbit

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2015, 04:19:14 PM »

How is your bite ?

eastcoastian1

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2015, 04:21:56 PM »
Here is a picture with me biting full down: https://fi.realself.com/full/43400d3084fdc42c7b79be3c6b2e07aa/f/9/8/userimage-1191962.jpeg
https://fi.realself.com/full/43400d3084fdc42c7b79be3c6b2e07aa/a/2/a/userimage-1191959.jpeg


You can see there is a slight horizontal misalignment and a bit of an overbite.   

Bobbit

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2015, 05:14:36 PM »

Any sleep apnea ?

I have seen a lot worse - - that ended up with very good results after jaw surgery.   Prefer moving the jaw or jaws to just trying to do something with implants. 

Go find a good orthognathic surgeon - -  see that surgeon and let them recommend to you.  If they think surgery then let them also recommend an orthodontist they work with and then get the ortho's buy-in  to the surgeon's plan.




eastcoastian1

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2015, 05:25:23 PM »
No sleep apnea.

Was just hoping to avoid possible 6 months of braces and long recovery, especially when I don't have any pain from the overbite. You think jaw surgery is a better option than a sliding genioplasty as well?

Bobbit

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2015, 05:59:33 PM »
No sleep apnea.

Was just hoping to avoid possible 6 months of braces and long recovery, especially when I don't have any pain from the overbite. You think jaw surgery is a better option than a sliding genioplasty as well?

What I think is really not very helpful.  A  sliding genio may improve the appearance.   And you may not need the braces in advance.   But rather than agonizing over the uncertainties - - it is really easier to find a good surgeon and get some advice - -  If you think the surgeon is exercising good judgment in his or her advice - -  then you probably ought to follow that advice - -  not mine for sure. 

eastcoastian1

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2015, 11:55:30 AM »
Just wanted to provide an update.

I had a consultation with Yaremchuk today. While I understand he's a PS, and in the business to make money, he strongly advised against any kind of jaw advancement/BSSO surgery, especially for cosmetic reasons, as he said by advancing the lower jaw forward I would actually have a more narrow/feminine jawline. He suggested jaw/chin implants. Seems very knowledgeable.

Anyone has any experience with him?

ForeverDet

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2015, 12:00:25 PM »
I tend to suggest going the corrective route with dentofacial defects where the root of the problem is treated rather than camouflaged. However in your case..

-You don't seem to have noticeable vertical issues e.g. lip incompetence, chin strain, gummy smile, maxillary retrusion, etc
-You say you don't have sleep apnea
-I'm assuming you don't have TMJ issues
-Your teeth are off center yet your jaw line is fairly symmetrical even tho your chin does veer a bit to one direction. It's not severe at all.
-Your bite looks solid despite appearing to maybe be mild class II
-Your mental-labial fold (that's the area between your bottom part of your lower lip and top of chin) isn't deep because you don't an overbite (deep bite). This is important because if you had that, it would not only indicate a bad bite that orthodontics probably alone couldn't solve, requiring jaw surgery to correct. But with a deep mental-labial fold, a chin advancement would most likely worsen it which is not aesthetically pleasing.
-Your chin retrusion is moderate and an isolated chin advancement would probably put it in a almost ideal position.

So I actually agree with a sliding genioplasty. Jaw implant are up to you obviously but I would do one procedure at a time because you never know how you'll feel after. You could love your new chin and be fine with your jawline after.

eastcoastian1

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2015, 12:13:27 PM »
I tend to suggest going the corrective route with dentofacial defects where the root of the problem is treated rather than camouflaged. However in your case..

-You don't seem to have noticeable vertical issues e.g. lip incompetence, chin strain, gummy smile, maxillary retrusion, etc
-You say you don't have sleep apnea
-I'm assuming you don't have TMJ issues
-Your teeth are off center yet your jaw line is fairly symmetrical even tho your chin does veer a bit to one direction. It's not severe at all.
-Your bite looks solid despite appearing to maybe be mild class II
-Your mental-labial fold (that's the area between your bottom part of your lower lip and top of chin) isn't deep because you don't an overbite (deep bite). This is important because if you had that, it would not only indicate a bad bite that orthodontics probably alone couldn't solve, requiring jaw surgery to correct. But with a deep mental-labial fold, a chin advancement would most likely worsen it which is not aesthetically pleasing.
-Your chin retrusion is moderate and an isolated chin advancement would probably put it in a almost ideal position.

So I actually agree with a sliding genioplasty. Jaw implant are up to you obviously but I would do one procedure at a time because you never know how you'll feel after. You could love your new chin and be fine with your jawline after.

Thank you for such a detailed response. It rivals that of the surgeon I saw today!

I forgot to mention in my previous post that I also had a consultation with an oral/maxiofacial surgeon over at Boston Medical. Her diagnosis was the same as yours (mild class II malocclusion with slight jaw misalignment). That said, she said it was "up to me" whether I wanted to do the surgery and I could pretty much go either way.

I do have TMJ issues (clicking on the right side when I open my mouth) but it doesn't interfere with my bite or cause sleep issues and is mostly just an annoyance for the people around me who have to put up with my clicking! Also, she told me there is no guarantee that my TMJ would be resolved and it could actually get worse, so NOT to do it for that reason alone. If I wanted it done for bite/jaw alignment, then thats a different story. I really just dont want to do the 6 months of braces before and after to be honest, which she said was needed.

To be frank, I'm really considering surgery for cosmetic purposes only, to add more balance to the lower part of my face. Yaremchuk did say though he elects to do chin implant rather sliding genioplasty along with jaw implant since he said they go hand and hand (he said if I were ONLY to do the chin implant, while adding more prominence, it could actually made the jaw seem narrower. Highyl advised doing both the same time in my case)....

eastcoastian1

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2015, 04:23:43 PM »
Stop, stop, stop, stop.  You have either a skeletal or dental discrepancy.  One side of your face is very slightly larger.  That is what is causing the trouble with the joint.  The facial difference will continue unless the discrepancy is corrected.  At some point the work load on the joint with overtake it's capacity to adjust and you will have problems.  It may take a decade or two, may not.  You need that joint in order to be able to eat.  Most max-fac surgeons will not even attempt to treat TMJ issues because they are complex and cannot always be successfully treated.  Google condylar hyprplasia for an idea of what could happen.  Is there canting or tilting on one side of your molars?  The fix is to stabilize the bite/joint either thru dental work or skeletal correction, depending on where your issue is.

Of course Yarmachuk suggested facial implants.  That's what he does.  Before you go any farther use the search function so you can understand why it is a very bad idea to put implants in your face.  In short, they will look good for 7 to 10 years, then you will begin to have problems.

You face shape is the upside down triangle from the cheeks which is not the currently "in style" face shape for men.  You are going to have to go with it.  Even with implants, you will not be able to obtain the hyper-masculine prognathic dick-tracy type jaw that everyone wants right now.

You won't listen to me, but you need one of the better surgeons who does treat TMJ to evaluate you and determine where the issue is.  If not, you can go ahead and get the genio or implants, but will have to deal with this issue later on and it will be worse at that time.  If I were you, I would fix the function first, then consider the aesthetics.

Thanks for the reply.

Last week I saw a Dr. Gerald Maher who supposedly is an expert in TMJ and actually invented a mouthguard many NFL players use to prevent concussions (the Maher Mouthguard).

He examined me and said the TMJ issue would be resolved by using a MORA mouthguard at night (it supposedly helps line the top teeth bite up). He was very confident it would relieve symptoms within a few months.

In fact the oral surgeon I saw at Boston Medical said they usually treat TMJ with just sprints and muscle relaxers. Doesn't seem like an approach that could fix skeletal deficiencies. What are some of the procedures you know of that would be used to treat me for my case?

chinnychinchin

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2015, 04:40:40 PM »
I would recommend a genio over a chin implant simply because it always looks more natural. Every chin implant outcome I've seen looks a bit off.

ForeverDet

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2015, 01:36:27 AM »
Thank you for such a detailed response. It rivals that of the surgeon I saw today!

I forgot to mention in my previous post that I also had a consultation with an oral/maxiofacial surgeon over at Boston Medical. Her diagnosis was the same as yours (mild class II malocclusion with slight jaw misalignment). That said, she said it was "up to me" whether I wanted to do the surgery and I could pretty much go either way.

I do have TMJ issues (clicking on the right side when I open my mouth) but it doesn't interfere with my bite or cause sleep issues and is mostly just an annoyance for the people around me who have to put up with my clicking! Also, she told me there is no guarantee that my TMJ would be resolved and it could actually get worse, so NOT to do it for that reason alone. If I wanted it done for bite/jaw alignment, then thats a different story. I really just dont want to do the 6 months of braces before and after to be honest, which she said was needed.

To be frank, I'm really considering surgery for cosmetic purposes only, to add more balance to the lower part of my face. Yaremchuk did say though he elects to do chin implant rather sliding genioplasty along with jaw implant since he said they go hand and hand (he said if I were ONLY to do the chin implant, while adding more prominence, it could actually made the jaw seem narrower. Highyl advised doing both the same time in my case)....

Your welcome! :)

FaceNit - While I can understand why you are pushing for him to see a maxillofacial doc to treat his dentofacial issues and like I said, I too will usually strongly suggest that because for optimal aesthetics outcome and functional/long-term stability. You're exaggerating about an isolated genioplasty being necessarily wrong in this particular case. 

Clicking in joints and natural jawline asymmetry by itself is not the slightest sufficient to predict his joints will deteriorate or lead to other skeletal issues. He doesn't mention pain (correct me if you do OP), no interference with bite or mastication and no breathing issues. All good. He is also doesn't have an open/cross bite. Also very good.

Drawing on my personal experience, I had joint clicking and symmetry before surgery and I still have it after successful double jaw surgery. Dr. Gunson told me that even without surgery my joints would be fine. I even had a small airway (I had mild sleep apnea).

Of course there's individual variation and everyone's developmental trajectory won't be the same. Good thing we aren't all basing our opinions off personal outcomes. OP, has you jaw unevenness of your visibly worsened over time? Or the clicking?

OP I would do three things:

1. Avoid any kind of TMJ treatments for now. Maybe forever. Unless your currently benign symptoms worsen.
2: Avoid jaw implants, I'll agree with Facenit on this point. Not that jaw implants can't give a good result for some people. And while I don't know Dr. Y's history, plenty of doctors will operate on a person even though it's contra-indicated, either out of genuine ignorance or because they just don't care.
3. If you do not want to go the jaw surgery route, go have at least several consultations with competent, experienced surgeons with good reputations about having a sliding genioplasty.

Then re-asses 6 months to a year down the line, both how you look and your functioning. Be prepared to have some residual partial numbness on your chin and lower lip that may be permanent. This happens in many cases even when the doc does everything right.

And finally a sliding genio, while not an insignificant surgery, will have no affect of potential future jaw surgery if needed. Other positives is that it's your own bone and it's a very stable procedure that will not negatively affect your bite or joints.

PloskoPlus

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2015, 01:57:58 AM »
OP,

If you don't want a full on jaw surgery, then consider a chin wing osteotomy. It would improve your whole jaw line.  You'd have to go to Europe for this.  It can also be combined with traditional jaw surgery, so you will not end up with a long narrow jaw that Yaremchuk is talking about.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 08:51:52 PM by GJ »

jesterofmalice

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2015, 04:58:55 AM »
I can't quite get my head around the chinwing i've seen mentioned a few times.
I've seen these pics:


But i'm still not sure how that would have the desired effect that lots of people seem to want.
I've attached a little pic I made, lol

OP,

If you don't want a full on jaw surgery, then consider a chin wing osteotomy. It would improve your whole jaw line.  You'd have to go to Europe for this.  It can also be combined with traditional jaw surgery, so you will not end up with a long narrow jaw that Yaremchuk is talking about.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 08:52:21 PM by GJ »

terry947

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Re: Jaw/Chin implant vs Jaw Advancement?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2015, 12:20:38 PM »
@facenit - what if you have no joint clicking or pain but just random muscular fatigue from grinding teeth at night and limited opening? (PM me if you dont want to talk about tmj here thx)