Mouth is sunken in during decompensation.

[Lazlo]

So most of you guys know my story. I had four bicuspids removed in preparation for jaw surgery. It's been hell for my mind and life cause my arches are so small my tongue can't even sit inside my mouth properly which lead to massive panic attacks. I've lost all the interdental tissue between ALL of my teeth, partly cause the teeth at the roots level are too far and partly because of the massive movement done as an adult. I was never warned about ANY of this from my f**kFACE orthodontist.

Anyway, I've learned to live with it after going mad essentially, getting addicted to ativan, going to rehab, going on other meds (other things happened in my life at the same time, pretty unfortunate traumatic things I won't discuss right now).

One thing I'm freaking out about and I'm just wondering if there are any veterans who've had this. I have no support for my upper lip the way my jaws are set right now NOR for my bottom lip so if I were to just close my bite, my lips fall inward and almost disappear. It's very pronounced and noticeable and I NEVER had this before the bite was "decompensated"or whatever it's called for jaw surgery.

Now my ortho says when I have surgery and the jaws are set right i'll have lips again, but I'm kind of paranoid it won't happen. I mean will the movement of rotating upwards and out both jaws create support for my lips? How will they rest? Right now I look if I were to really relax my mouth like one of those old people who don't have lips. And I used to have really full almost Tom Hardly like mouth at least with full lips. This is so bad I almost think the only solution "might" and a strong might be to to grow my jaws with DO and then have implants put in --but f**k opening the spaces.

Sorry, I guess I'm going a bit Rico here but that's what this forum is for right? Warning others too to not have extractions. EVER. Any of you had this feeling of loss of support of lips both upper and lower and then it was fixed after surgery?

[kjohnt]

I mean will the movement of rotating upwards and out both jaws create support for my lips?

Yes.  Your pre-op orthodontics will ensure your incisors sit well within the arches and the advancement will push your lips forward, most prominently at the occlusal plane, which as I've seen in cephs should be right where (or close to where) the lips meet.  I think bimax advancement creating additional lip support is universally accepted as true.

[Lazlo]

Yes.  Your pre-op orthodontics will ensure your incisors sit well within the arches and the advancement will push your lips forward, most prominently at the occlusal plane, which as I've seen in cephs should be right where (or close to where) the lips meet.  I think bimax advancement creating additional lip support is universally accepted as true.

f**k bless you if you're right i could give you a kiss.

[ditterbo]

Wow that sounds like a lot to deal with, sorry you're in such a difficult position Lazlo.  The four bicuspids, I presume 2 were from the bottom and 2 taken off the top?  One bicuspid per side doesn't SOUND like so much of a gap, but I guess even a few mm will cause interdental gum decay.  And here I was already pretty turned off about teeth extractions.  All that you're going through, and the research out there linking memory loss to missing teeth, makes teeth extractions seem not worth it to me . This was recommended by Dr. Sinn for your case though?  Hopefully all these issues your experiencing are just temporary until surgery.

EDIT: PloskoPlus & others, just google "memory loss missing teeth" to see the studies. 

[PloskoPlus]

AFAIK memory loss is probably caused by the general anaesthetic. Some say it's not harmless at all and should be avoided at all cost.

[Lazlo]

memory loss? i didn't even know about that!!!??

yeah i've been through a lot in the past three years that would make you guys shudder. i lost people dear to me at the same time i initiated doing braces. No Dr. Sinn is someone i just found this past year, he said the extractions were a disaster, as did arnett when he saw me. my ortho is a serious f**k, but now I'm just hoping what dr. sinn does improves my situation and they'll figure some way to regenerate gum tissue in the future.

i mean hockey players and s**t lose all their teeth so you know this is minor.

yeah, my doc thinks I should change to zoloft. i've had severe panic disorder ever since the gaps closed and the space in my mouth disappeared.
yes two from the top and two from the bottom.

i really f**ked up my life initiating this whole jaw surgery thing but now i have to move forward.

[Lazlo]

I wish stuff like this would just come out soon.....


http://undergroundhealthreporter.com/tooth-regeneration-now-possible-with-new-stem-cell-research/#axzz44vTWe1Rs

[Lazlo]

Wow that sounds like a lot to deal with, sorry you're in such a difficult position Lazlo.  The four bicuspids, I presume 2 were from the bottom and 2 taken off the top?  One bicuspid per side doesn't SOUND like so much of a gap, but I guess even a few mm will cause interdental gum decay.  And here I was already pretty turned off about teeth extractions.  All that you're going through, and the research out there linking memory loss to missing teeth, makes teeth extractions seem not worth it to me . This was recommended by Dr. Sinn for your case though?  Hopefully all these issues your experiencing are just temporary until surgery.

EDIT: PloskoPlus & others, just google "memory loss missing teeth" to see the studies.

oh my god i almost feel like breaking down and crying tonight. it hasn't been a great day and now to learn this. that i could be permanently damaged and have an increased risk of alzheimers.

i'll tell you five years ago when I had my bicuspids taken out none of this info existed on the internet, not this forum, nothing. now i could just google "should i get my bicuspids out for ortho and jaw surgery" and basically there is a tidal wave of info warning you not to.

if you get extractions knowing all the horror stories (and yes I am one of them, I experienced SEVERE depression and anxiety after extractions and my father is convinced that the extractiosn themselves affected my mental well being) --now I learn there is actually evidence for this.

[ditterbo]

Well an article posted June 6 2013 from nhs.uk talks about how the study cannot really be generalized, and that the differences in memory are modest (skip to the conclusion for the key points). http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/06June/Pages/does-losing-teeth-cause-memory-loss.aspx

Personally I have enough difficulty with memory (anxiety and shortage of interpersonal relationships imo, but partially genetics I suspect), so I'm extra concerned about doing anything that could make it worse.  I wonder what I'd be giving up, cosmetically, if I did bimax without extractions but I'll probably never know.  Putting a lot of hope in that Gunson consultation, but my experience from the last 20 consultations to fix this chin implant tells me I'm setting myself up for a huge disappointment if I expect a doctor to help me make the right decision.  I end up with advice specific to that doctor's toolkit, what he's 'used to doing', and what they would do (given their huge bias as their type of doctor and how big or small their reputation, etc.).  Hardly ever helpful.

Also, I'm not finding that tidal wave of info for or against extractions.  I'm probably not choosing my words well, but literally typing those keywords in quotes that you posted doesn't return much.

[thinkingme]

Bro am i right or u took out 4 biscupid 4 year ago. And now take out4 more?. Do u have wisdom teeth? How many teeth u have in ur mouth?

[swsee]

I don't know if it's as cut and dry as "never have extractions." I had two lower bicuspids removed in my lower arch in order to make room to decomp and pull everything back. This was the only way to make room to advance my lower as much as required without advancing the upper an excessive amount. There was only room to move my lower ~3mm to put me in a Class 1 position, which wouldn't have done anything for my airway and aesthetics. The current plan, which involved extractions will allow me to advance my chin point by ~22mm through CCW rotation, BSSO, and genio(5mm). Upper incisor tip will move ~6mm (I think?)

 The gap has actually been closing very quickly . Only down side is that I have a ridiculous overbite that gets worse by the day. That will be resolved in due time with surgery.

It sounds like a crappy situation for you, and I'm sorry to hear you're dealing with this, but I just wanted to point out that it's not as simple as saying extractions = bad.

[Ginger]

Okay, the memory loss/missing teeth connection is related to periodontal disease and losing teeth from poor oral health -- not extractions. Let's not work people up with this.