If you're upper teeth were flared out...

[x]

...wouldn't that mean you need CW rotation not CCW rotation? To me it seems like the rotation would depend on the area of the deficiency. In my case I have bimax protrusion which means that my lower maxilla is ahead of my upper maxilla, wouldn't clockwise rotation be necessary to level it off?

or maybe I'm just misunderstanding the movement...

[CK]

uhhh think she might just be posing.

[x]

uhhh think she might just be posing.

right, she changed the shape of her bone structure for that particular pose. good eye CK!

[CK]

right, she changed the shape of her bone structure for that particular pose. good eye CK!

well it's difficult to judge her bone structure because of the lighting, her head position, and the color changes. so i wouldnt use it as an example for anything other than a model posing.

[x]

well it's difficult to judge her bone structure because of the lighting, her head position, and the color changes. so i wouldnt use it as an example for anything other than a model posing.

Regardless of what she actually has, what I'm seeing in that picture is similar to what I have. my guess is the lower maxillary protrusion is a result of orthodontic 'overcorrection' of the upper teeth to meet with the lower for a class iii maloclussion

[x]

more pics of her:



i think it's pretty evident that she has a really flat midface with a protruding or convex maxilla/philtrum area

my guess is her jaws are shaped like mine

like:

\
/


where both jaws angle outwards



our face shapes are very similar. long looking midface, bulgy mouth, youthful appearance, depressed looking natural frown. I'm more recessed than she is though and I don't have the fantastic upper eye area she does

[CK]

agree w/o lazlo though it needs to be emphasized that not all of us here are dealing with what "mother nature" gave us.

but yeah, if you're perfectly healthy with zero functional problems the case for surgery needs more consideration.

as far as results go it is true there are a lot of probabilities, but after doing so many surgeries it generally becomes clear where the soft tissue will fall or how advancement will affect x,y z. not 100% but reliable guesses. just saying anything could happen seems like a slippery slope that promotes recklessness. most people will never see a "top" surgeon.

[stupidjaws]

Were not scaremongering, this is really happening!!

[pumukka]

I had my teeth flared out before extractions and braces, and after it I still have them afterwards. I dont know if its because im a class III so my top teeth are flared out to reach better my bottoms, I also show a lot of lower incisors when resting, talking and smiling (even a little of bottom gum)

but they tell me in some cases , flared teeth cant just be corrected with braces because of my maxilla position/rotation, like if you try to pust them in "the roots would come out" they didnt say it like that but im not sure how to explain it.

Some people have the opposite, top teeth facing inwards, i cant think of anyone but ive seen in a few people with staight teeth ( i think its cute lol)

So to answer your questions yes, I would need some degree of CW, My oclusal plane is on the flat side, only problems is I have a short ramus too and that would make my gonial angle even more steep and that is not a good either.