Chin wing without moving the chin forward

[Lestat]

I am looking only for more jaw width from the front and an improved jaw shape.
My chin is fine!

What I want is a SQUARE FACE.

Is it possible to do a chin wing without moving the chin forward?
And will the result even be better, if you dont move the chin forward?

What are your thoughts?

[Lestat]

IMO a square face is the most beautiful type of face shape.

[Lestat]

The user "Vic" asked dr.Z for me. Thank you very much Vic you are great!!

Dr. Z told him that it is possible to do a chin wing without movement of the chin. It is called a side wing.

I need more information about this side wing.
Does it give a better result for jaw widening and jaw angles than a traditional chin wing?
How many mm are possible?

Maybe Vic can ask Dr. Z and is willing to share his knowledge with us.
I would really appreciate it.

[Lestat]

A so called side wing is a variation of the chin wing.

I found this in an older thread:

I just had a phone consultation with Dr Z. He was telling me about a variation of the chin wing he does called the side wing. Anyone else heard about it?

He said its way of making the ramus longer without touching the chin

[Vic]

Yes, the side wing is the augmentation of the width and length of the jawline without touching the chin

[Vic]

Dr Z's gone for the day now, but if you let me know what you want to know about it, then I'll ask him tomorrow?

[ditterbo]

I guess the side wing would augment the most at the ramus and taper down to nothing to conform to the chin bone area, right?  I wonder if that would look natural? Anyways I defer to Lestat for questions to ask Z, he's been researching all these things way harder than me. 

[Lestat]

Thank you guys my questions are: how many mm are possible for each side and does it give better results for widening the jaw than a traditional chin wing? Is it also possible to lenghten the jawline? And could he describe the procedure a little bit maybe? Thanks.

[Lazlo]

Thank you guys my questions are: how many mm are possible for each side and does it give better results for widening the jaw than a traditional chin wing? Is it also possible to lenghten the jawline? And could he describe the procedure a little bit maybe? Thanks.

Dr, Sinn does some sort of wing only procedure --I didn't have it done but he does it I know.

[Vic]

Thank you guys my questions are: how many mm are possible for each side and does it give better results for widening the jaw than a traditional chin wing? Is it also possible to lenghten the jawline? And could he describe the procedure a little bit maybe? Thanks.

He said that how many mm's depends on the individual and how close the nerve is towards the edge of the jawline. He's sending me off to this X-ray place to tomorrow, which takes a cone beam CT, so he can see where the nerve is, but he said with his software he can plan the actual side wing by doing the cuts using the software and can see exactly what position and how far down towards the chin he will move the bone and how far he can move the bone outwards and downwards and also how the soft tissue will move and look after the surgery. So I'm hoping to have a plan all set for when I come back in 5 months for the next surgery and will pretty much know what the end result should look like

[Lestat]

Hi Vic thank you for your answer. It is really very interesting. The best would be to make an appointment with Dr. Z. and speak with him personally, because each patient is different.
Wish you the best for your further surgeries with Dr. Z. Vic.

[Vic]

Hi Vic thank you for your answer. It is really very interesting. The best would be to make an appointment with Dr. Z. and speak with him personally, because each patient is different.
Wish you the best for your further surgeries with Dr. Z. Vic.

No worries mate. Yes, it's best to have a phone consultation then a face to face consultation

[boyo]

^
that's exactly why you never use a CW to bring out your chin. Forward movement is really bad on your gonials and will reduce angularity. What that patient should have done was getting the gonials flexed vertically and bone shaved the whole mandible in a more straight line and lower angle. Would have looked far better.

[ppsk]

^
that's exactly why you never use a CW to bring out your chin. Forward movement is really bad on your gonials and will reduce angularity. What that patient should have done was getting the gonials flexed vertically and bone shaved the whole mandible in a more straight line and lower angle. Would have looked far better.

can you explain this in better detail

i hear the bone shaving thing bandied here a lot and it just sounds like trying to cosmetically contour the manidble into looking like its angular without actually addressing the problem that is causing a lack of definition (projection), sort of like removing the fat pad in the cheek to create an effect that is actually due to high and wide cheekbones.

[boyo]

True, but it is not just the forward movement of the chin wing that ruins the angularity. I've seen multiple chin wings in which either the chin was not brought forward, or even brought backwards and the jaw angle was still ruined. Because even if there is no forward movement, the wing still moves downwards which of course causes a gap between the ramus and the lower mandible.
Plus in this case that you see in the X-Ray the chin is even vertically shortened, so the gap is still far less obvious than in most chin wings where the chin is often vertically lengthened a bit or keeps the same vertical length.

This doesn't make any sense to me. The "gap" you speak of is filled with bone graft, both in between the cut and on top of the gonial angle. The wing is not only vertically dropped, but is flexed horizontally as much as possible, increasing width and projection. Are you claiming Zarrinbal told you he doesn't do segments? Because he told me just recently the opposite, he even could split the wing in pieces and fill them with grafts which will actually push the gonials backwards, lengthening them posterior. He didn't recommend it though because he isn't sure if the area will get sufficient with nutrition and not relapse.