Adenoid facies

[x]

I had an adenotonsillectomy at age 10-11 to correct hypertrophied adenoids and tonsils. what I want to know if anyone has any knowledge of this disorder is, is there any guarantee that growth was successfully 'rerouted' following the procedure? can a specialist say for sure whether the face grew properly after the procedure? or is there a chance that growth continued abnormally?

random question and I don't expect many responses, but I'm curious

[x]

this is extremely fascinating. CK perhaps this explains why you're a class II and I'm a class III, and we are both open bites (i think you are):

A change in breathing pattern led to a variety of skeletal and dental deformities in an animal that ordinarily does not develop malocclusions and facial abnormalities under natural conditions. It was not the change in breathing pattern that caused the malocclusion and the various forms of facial disharmony; rather, the ultimate facial and dental abnormalities depended on which of the three forms of respiration the animal developed. Animals that rhythmically lowered and raised their mandibles with each breath developed a Class I open bite and a skeletal Class I open bite (that is, long faces). Animals that rotated their mandibles in a posterior and inferior direction developed a Class II malocclusion and a skeletal Class II profile. The animals whose mandible maintained an anterior position developed a Class III malocclusion and a skeletal Class III profile.7

http://www.jeffersondental.com/assets/docs/mouthBreathing.pdf

[CK]

this is extremely fascinating. CK perhaps this explains why you're a class II and I'm a class III, and we are both open bites (i think you are):



http://www.jeffersondental.com/assets/docs/mouthBreathing.pdf

interesting. the fact is faces are incredibly vulnerable to the environment during infancy and childhood. so this doesn't surprise me, though im still not completely convinced on the mouth breathing. i never had an open bite, i probably would have developed one though if i didnt have braces early on.

[pekay]

when I first joined the .br forum there was this Asian orthodontist or at least he was pretending to be an ortho... anyway he blamed 90%+ of our bite problems/malocclusion on utensils (forks and spoons, specially spoons) since we cram them inside our mouth, bite down on it, tilt it upwards and remove it while the spoon is tilted up thus creating an open-bite. the solution to all this? CHOP STICKS!

he was either banned or left after a short while, to this today I don't know whether or not he was trolling

[CK]

when I first joined the .br forum there was this Asian orthodontist or at least he was pretending to be an ortho... anyway he blamed 90%+ of our bite problems/malocclusion on utensils (forks and spoons, specially spoons) since we cram them inside our mouth, bite down on it, tilt it upwards and remove it while the spoon is tilted up thus creating an open-bite. the solution to all this? CHOP STICKS!

he was either banned or left after a short while, to this today I don't know whether or not he was trolling

lol crazy. well we know for a fact enlarged adenoids interrupts growth, it's just an incredibly rare condition.

[x]

http://scienceblog.com/3930/enlarged-tonsils-can-cause-long-face-syndrome-in-children/

http://www.brianpalmerdds.com/pdf/adsm_section_d.pdf

this just angers me more with what that quack surgeon/ortho said about it all being genetics, same asshole who said extractions right off the bat

[x]

"Her research builds on earlier, smaller studies showing that children with nighttime breathing problems did better with cognitive and attention-directed tasks and had fewer behavioral issues after their adenoids and tonsils were removed. The children were significantly less likely than untreated children with sleep-disordered breathing to be given an A.D.H.D. diagnosis in the ensuing months and years.

Most important, perhaps, those already found to have A.D.H.D. before surgery subsequently behaved so much better in many cases that they no longer fit the criteria. The National Institutes of Health has begun a study, called the Childhood Adenotonsillectomy Study, to understand the effect of surgically removing adenoids and tonsils on the health and behavior of 400 children. Results are expected this year."

nice to know I'm stupider as a result of nasal obstructions

[ExtractionsRuinFaces]

"Her research builds on earlier, smaller studies showing that children with nighttime breathing problems did better with cognitive and attention-directed tasks and had fewer behavioral issues after their adenoids and tonsils were removed. The children were significantly less likely than untreated children with sleep-disordered breathing to be given an A.D.H.D. diagnosis in the ensuing months and years.

Most important, perhaps, those already found to have A.D.H.D. before surgery subsequently behaved so much better in many cases that they no longer fit the criteria. The National Institutes of Health has begun a study, called the Childhood Adenotonsillectomy Study, to understand the effect of surgically removing adenoids and tonsils on the health and behavior of 400 children. Results are expected this year."

nice to know I'm stupider as a result of nasal obstructions

My friend with pirahna like teeth (dental or skeletal open bite, not sure) and crowded teeth has ADHD.

Seems legit. (seriously)

[x]

My friend with pirahna like teeth (dental or skeletal open bite, not sure) and crowded teeth has ADHD.

Seems legit. (seriously)

doesn't surprise me at all

jaw surgery candidates fall pretty clearly into 2 defined groups: issues isolated to the jaw, and issues that tie back to something else but a maloclussion is a result (and obviously effects more than the jaws, effects behavior, mood...)

[Tiny]

I think environment can make a OK jaw quite bad, but not really bad.  Really bad comes from really bad genetics (e.g.hapsburg lip) or quite bad + bad environment, IMO.     I had a friend in highschool with an open bite and who absolutely crying out for bimax surgery and she had the exact same face as her mother.  She got braces but she doesn't look too different today.

In my case I have the exact same facial structure as my father but my jaw recession is significantly worse.  Now, is that because I'm female, because of poor growth at some point childhood (indicated by poor enamel in my 1st molars) or a side effect of extractions and orthodontics?  Or an example of a trait getting more exaggerated down the generations This often happens when there are lots codon repeats in the gene.  It's easier to go from 30 to 31 repeats of a codon than it is to go from 5 to 6, the checking mechanisms miss the extra codon.  The older the father, the more it tends to happen and the more the extension.  Now, I don't know anything about jaw genetics but it's not too much of a stretch to imagine.  My father was 40 when I was born; kids of older father's have more genetic defects.

[CK]

also these are all correlations. i dont like the jump from "i had breathing problems as a kid" to "and im average intelligence and education." i wouldnt say adhd is necessarily a learned condition. clearly they are environmental risk factors.

[x]

also these are all correlations. i dont like the jump from "i had breathing problems as a kid" to "and im average intelligence and education." i wouldnt say adhd is necessarily a learned condition. clearly they are environmental risk factors.

I mean it's not exactly a leap of logic. breathing problems = trouble sleeping. trouble sleeping = trouble concentraing. therefore, breathing problems = trouble concentrating.

now if you start pinning all of your issues on one thing then you're kidding yourself, it's just correlation as you said. my brother has perfect jaws and bad ADD

[x]

I think environment can make a OK jaw quite bad, but not really bad.  Really bad comes from really bad genetics (e.g.hapsburg lip) or quite bad + bad environment, IMO.     I had a friend in highschool with an open bite and who absolutely crying out for bimax surgery and she had the exact same face as her mother.  She got braces but she doesn't look too different today.

In my case I have the exact same facial structure as my father but my jaw recession is significantly worse.  Now, is that because I'm female, because of poor growth at some point childhood (indicated by poor enamel in my 1st molars) or a side effect of extractions and orthodontics?  Or an example of a trait getting more exaggerated down the generations This often happens when there are lots codon repeats in the gene.  It's easier to go from 30 to 31 repeats of a codon than it is to go from 5 to 6, the checking mechanisms miss the extra codon.  The older the father, the more it tends to happen and the more the extension.  Now, I don't know anything about jaw genetics but it's not too much of a stretch to imagine.  My father was 40 when I was born; kids of older father's have more genetic defects.

funny you mention the hapsburg jaw, I stumbled on that term for the first time a couple days ago. it's actually really close to my set-up though I don't look nearly as bad as they do

[Tiny]

funny you mention the hapsburg jaw, I stumbled on that term for the first time a couple days ago. it's actually really close to my set-up though I don't look nearly as bad as they do

It got worse over the generations.  The final member of the line couldn't even chew or speak properly.  They basically inbred themselves to extinction
At least your class 3 isn't anywhere near approaching this s**tstorm - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain