Facelift Dentistry?

[fulcanelli]

I get that. My point is that if you get this done how would the lower jaw look when resting, talking when the upper and lower teeth are not meeting? They kinda imply that the jaw realignment is permanent but I don’t see it can be if the teeth aren’t closed to support everything. Maybe the muscles readjust to this new position? Seems a bit unlikely though.

[kavan]

I get that. My point is that if you get this done how would the lower jaw look when resting, talking when the upper and lower teeth are not meeting? They kinda imply that the jaw realignment is permanent but I don’t see it can be if the teeth aren’t closed to support everything. Maybe the muscles readjust to this new position? Seems a bit unlikely though.

Same way it would look if you didn't get the teeth elongated.

[fulcanelli]

 Yeh that’s what I think too. So it’s not really an alternative to jaw surgery as claimed. Well maybe if you want to walk around with your mouth shut all the time..

[kavan]

Yeh that’s what I think too. So it’s not really an alternative to jaw surgery as claimed. Well maybe if you want to walk around with your mouth shut all the time..

Ya. That's basically it.

Let's say, someone has a deep bite and a retrusive mandible and they learn to hide that by dropping their jaw down and out at rest where they get the FRONT lower teeth to meet the FRONT upper teeth where they should be. If they look to see what's going on when they do that, they will find that it basically yields a massive posterior OPEN BITE.  So, solution would be to ELONGATE the MOLARS so the person doesn't go back into the deep bite when chewing or when getting their back molars to meet in repose. Voila! That's part of the guy's 'secret' as to 'correcting the bite' so the person looks better WHEN they are occluding with their back molars.

His closed mouth before photos show people occluding the back molars and their lower '1/3rds' looking kind of 'short' and or retrusive due to that. So when the back molars are ELONGATED, the closed mouth position no longer yields the retrusive or short look.

[fulcanelli]

They have responded:

“As far as the jaw goes, everyone is different and we know nothing about you or your structures, bite, jaw position or jaw sizes.  Most of the time your jaw is not "brought forward" because it usually does this naturally.  Right now if you have an overbite, you jaw is forced backwards.”

I am sceptical on the overbite forces the jaw backwards point. Thoughts on this?

But it got me thinking maybe my lower jaw is short due to posterior open bite and front over bite but not actually recessed. How can I check? I’ve tried jutting lower jaw forward and also letting it hang down trying not to let it come forward and there isn’t that much difference, both are an improvement. Probably not an accurate indicator I know.

[kavan]

They have responded:

“As far as the jaw goes, everyone is different and we know nothing about you or your structures, bite, jaw position or jaw sizes.  Most of the time your jaw is not "brought forward" because it usually does this naturally.  Right now if you have an overbite, you jaw is forced backwards.”

I am sceptical on the overbite forces the jaw backwards point. Thoughts on this?

But it got me thinking maybe my lower jaw is short due to posterior open bite and front over bite but not actually recessed. How can I check? I’ve tried jutting lower jaw forward and also letting it hang down trying not to let it come forward and there isn’t that much difference, both are an improvement. Probably not an accurate indicator I know.

Your jaw is brought backwards with an overbite. That is true.

But the jaw can easily be brought forwards with concious effort to mask it's backwards orientation from the overbite. So what they can do is elongate the back molars so they touch in the position where one is bringing their jaw forwards to mask the retrusion the overbite gives them.

[sooq]

I saw this guy when I was in CA to see Arnett in 2016. I was sceptical too but thought I may as well see him whilst I was doing the rounds of a few CA surgeons.

I can't remember exactly, without digging out the paperwork, but I think the cost was around 100k US. So irrespective of anything else, that was me out!

I didn't come out with a better understanding of the process than anything that has been posted here - all I even remember was just that he emphasised that they do not grind down teeth like with veneers. Other than that I am still in the dark as to what the hell he does. I very much got the impression that everything he was saying was just regurgitation of sales patter he says to every patient. He was friendly and warm, I just didn't feel comfortable with any of it, considering this was my entire mouth of teeth and a cost that was astronomical. Plus, the teeth in his after photos do look pretty fake and plasticky. It would look ridiculous on my face.

Even if you ignore the above and could afford it, I think there is a limitation as to what it can achieve and who it can help anyway. Just imagine spending this amount of money and then realising after that it hasn't really been a substitute for jaw surgery. I think the truth is there is no real alternative to jaw surgery. If you need it you need it. You can of course choose not to have it and live with your face, thereby avoiding the risks that surgery entails. But IMO you aren't ever going to be satisfied with masking procedures if you have true boney issues and imbalances.

[fulcanelli]

100k is insane I can’t believe anyone would pay that. I have a suspicion  they’re vague about their methods because essentially it’s build up the back teeth and stick veneers on the front. Obviously it takes a good dr to get the bite in the right place and look good but I can’t see why it costs that much.

I think you’re right it can never replace surgery if you really need it but for borderline cases or people who want to improve aesthetics I can see the benefit over years in braces, surgery and even then a unpredictable outcome. If it was cheaper and other dentists start offering similar services without the facelift schtick I’d probably do it.

[Hope]

I also was interested once.
Asked the price per email, they said about 70k.

Then i saw a video testimonial. The women was happy, but i did not like the result too much when she was talking. Really very bulky teeth and she seemed to have a bit trouble talking. (the pictures looked better to me than actual video)

[GJ]

What I'm saying is that IF one consciously holds their jaw forward where the teeth are NOT meeting and that looks good to them, getting the teeth elongated so they have that position when the teeth ARE meeting is basically what this process does.

That would pretty much destroy the condyle and cause all kinds of other problems.
Don't do this, OP. It's snake oil.

[fulcanelli]

That would pretty much destroy the condyle and cause all kinds of other problems.
Don't do this, OP. It's snake oil.

Tbh I have been kinda thinking about it. Not the facelift dentistry but getting the back teeth built up with crowns. I have an open bite back there and they’re really worn down compared to my other teeth  and I am not that old (38).

Are you able to elaborate on the problems this can cause to the condyle?

[Lazlo]

its a total scam, will leave you disfigured. end of story.

[fulcanelli]

I don’t want to flog a dead horse with this but I recently had a check up at the dentist and he said my back teeth were seriously worn down. He recommended I get s bite guard to stop grinding in my sleep.

But that won’t fix my teeth. This combined with my deep bite makes my lower third short when I close my jaws so now I am back to thinking about building up the back teeth, does anyone have experience of doing this?

[kavan]

If you are wearing the back teeth down now, you will STILL have that HABIT after you pay big $$$$ to have them built up with crowns. The amount that FLD charges is more than a maxfax surgeon who could give CORRECTION for deep bite.

[Tezcatli]

Surface has to be etched to accept a veneer; onlay. When reading his patent, as I recall, that was part of the process. One of the problems with the US patent office is they really don't go through the patents to notice that people are often patenting a type of process that's actually in the public venue as in methods commonly used. So, many applicants kind of get away with patenting a method that's already in common use such as the way he prepares the teeth before he puts something over them as in cleaning, germ killing and etching. Now the reason his teeth look fake as you note relates to what I said prior which is what he is doing is building them to be thicker and longer. So this 'venlay' (trademark term) will resolve to a THICK overlay in which translucency will be lost which I think explains why you've noticed these very thick overlays; 'Venlays' don't look as natural (translucent) as veneers which are usually thinner.

I'm a novice patent agent outside of the US, here we can't patent medical treatments, how does that work in the US? Other dentists can't use his procedure or does it refer to a kind of kit that contains the veneers, etching products etc that only that specific patent holder can now sell?