Facelift Dentistry?

[fulcanelli]

Does anyone know anything about this or had it done? Results seem pretty impressive to correct minor- ish bite and jaw flaws without braces and invasive surgery. I had a genioplasty about 12 years ago now and got a great result but my chin still looks s little short because I have an overbite. If this was fixed there would be more length in my jaw and chin and it would look much better. No way I am getting braces and surgery now , I am 37 with kids and a job but I’d consider this if it’s legit.

Here’s a link: https://www.faceliftdentistry.com/overbite/correcting-overbite-without-surgery.html

[kavan]

Does anyone know anything about this or had it done? Results seem pretty impressive to correct minor- ish bite and jaw flaws without braces and invasive surgery. I had a genioplasty about 12 years ago now and got a great result but my chin still looks s little short because I have an overbite. If this was fixed there would be more length in my jaw and chin and it would look much better. No way I am getting braces and surgery now , I am 37 with kids and a job but I’d consider this if it’s legit.

Here’s a link: https://www.faceliftdentistry.com/overbite/correcting-overbite-without-surgery.html

I think a lot of it is a matter of bulking up the teeth and/ or elongating them (back molars) to give more support to the face which can be a lot of caps/crowns and veneers. Could run close to 70 grand.

[fulcanelli]

70G? Wow that’s a lot. If it can be done more cheaply I’d seriously consider it.

 If I move my lower jaw forward so that my bottom teeth meet my top teeth perfectly every thing looks great. At the time I was getting my genioplasty done the surgeon tried to convince the orthodontist to help so that I could have braces and eventually a bsso but she wouldn’t do it because she said it wasn’t that bad an overbite (it was NHS). So we just did the genioplasty and 12 years later it looks great just that my chin looks a little short when my jaws are shut. I’ve got a load of veneers that I got when I was young and stupid and they need to be replaced sooner rather than later anyway. I’ll look into other surgeons that do this in Europe and if I find it cheaper I’ll post more info here.

[kavan]

70G? Wow that’s a lot. If it can be done more cheaply I’d seriously consider it.

 If I move my lower jaw forward so that my bottom teeth meet my top teeth perfectly every thing looks great. At the time I was getting my genioplasty done the surgeon tried to convince the orthodontist to help so that I could have braces and eventually a bsso but she wouldn’t do it because she said it wasn’t that bad an overbite (it was NHS). So we just did the genioplasty and 12 years later it looks great just that my chin looks a little short when my jaws are shut. I’ve got a load of veneers that I got when I was young and stupid and they need to be replaced sooner rather than later anyway. I’ll look into other surgeons that do this in Europe and if I find it cheaper I’ll post more info here.

To the best of my knowledge, they ELONGATE the back molars so they can touch (or almost touch) when you put your jaw forward so you don't have an 'open bite' when doing that. They also bulk 'em out sideways to fill out the face. That's just the upper and lower molars which they would need to do with CAPS. They probably also want to do overlays/veneers to the the rest of the teeth too. Just that sort of thing is uber expen$$IVE and then they guy is going to want MORE over that because he calls a 'face lift'. No doubt he can do what he shows on there but he's appealing to LA patients with money burning hole in pocket. It would be possible for other dentists to do similar BUT this dentist trademarked the name; 'Face lift dentistry' and for that reason, other dentists who could do at a lower rate can't use the word 'face lift'.

[Meefly]

I'm the same, Fulcanelli, if I move my lower jaw forward so my front teeth meet my TMJ feels more comfortable and my profile improves.  Is there a way of achieving this with orthodontics and crowns. Or is surgery or 70k for 'Venlays' the only option?

[kavan]

I'm the same, Fulcanelli, if I move my lower jaw forward so my front teeth meet my TMJ feels more comfortable and my profile improves.  Is there a way of achieving this with orthodontics and crowns. Or is surgery or 70k for 'Venlays' the only option?

I believe, that's part of what this dentist is doing; using orthodonture and crowns to do what you are doing when you advance jaw.

[fulcanelli]

London cosmetic dentistry supposedly do venlays but no idea how much it costs or what their results are like. There’s probably dentists who can achieve a similar result for cheaper but I’d want to see a lot of before and afters and testimonials before paying anything. A lot of people from the U.K. went over to Poland in the 2000’s for veneers. I don’t know how they’re holding up now. That’s another point. If you don’t have veneers already do you really want them? I think they use them on the front teeth so that top and bottom line up once the bite is corrected. I have them already snd they need replacing anyway so that’s why I am thinking about this. I wouldn’t recommend them to someone who doesn’t have them, especially if their teeth are good.

[fulcanelli]

Found this while searching around the web. A lot of info around the procedure that seems to be missing elsewhere. Also interesting that they claim that they don’t use traditional veneers and don’t require to grind down the tooth surface to fit the venlays.

Link here http://www.google.com/patents/US20150157423

[kavan]

'Venlay' is a TRADEMARK name (his trademark). So, if he's building up the teeth, either making them longer for increased face height or making them 'fatter' for width support, there is actually no need to grind down the teeth. He would have to etch the surface though to glue them on.

[fulcanelli]

I think they claim not to damage the existing tooth at all so that would rule out etching the surface before adhering the venlay. The details are pretty hazy how Venlays differ from regular veneers. Also I’d be surprised if he got a patent reading that submission. Looking back at the site, he achieved great results in regards to changing the jaw/face of his patients but their actual teeth look really fake and unnatural. My veneers look way better I have to say.

[kavan]

I think they claim not to damage the existing tooth at all so that would rule out etching the surface before adhering the venlay. The details are pretty hazy how Venlays differ from regular veneers. Also I’d be surprised if he got a patent reading that submission. Looking back at the site, he achieved great results in regards to changing the jaw/face of his patients but their actual teeth look really fake and unnatural. My veneers look way better I have to say.

Surface has to be etched to accept a veneer; onlay. When reading his patent, as I recall, that was part of the process. One of the problems with the US patent office is they really don't go through the patents to notice that people are often patenting a type of process that's actually in the public venue as in methods commonly used. So, many applicants kind of get away with patenting a method that's already in common use such as the way he prepares the teeth before he puts something over them as in cleaning, germ killing and etching. Now the reason his teeth look fake as you note relates to what I said prior which is what he is doing is building them to be thicker and longer. So this 'venlay' (trademark term) will resolve to a THICK overlay in which translucency will be lost which I think explains why you've noticed these very thick overlays; 'Venlays' don't look as natural (translucent) as veneers which are usually thinner.

[fulcanelli]

Been thinking about this some more as alternative to bsso to bring lower jaw forward and fix overbite. But if jaws are open . Ie when resting or talking will the lower jaw fall back into recessed position because at that moment the back teeth won’t be touching to hold everything up?

[kavan]

Been thinking about this some more as alternative to bsso to bring lower jaw forward and fix overbite. But if jaws are open . Ie when resting or talking will the lower jaw fall back into recessed position because at that moment the back teeth won’t be touching to hold everything up?

I would imagine if you've been camouflaging the retrusive position by holding the jaw forward when talking anyway, you would still be able to do that.

[fulcanelli]

I’ve emailed them with this question. If you need to consciously hold the jaw forward when the teeth are not meeting that’s not ideal. Interestingly they now say on the website that there will be a course to train other dentists in the procedure.

[kavan]

I’ve emailed them with this question. If you need to consciously hold the jaw forward when the teeth are not meeting that’s not ideal. Interestingly they now say on the website that there will be a course to train other dentists in the procedure.

What I'm saying is that IF one consciously holds their jaw forward where the teeth are NOT meeting and that looks good to them, getting the teeth elongated so they have that position when the teeth ARE meeting is basically what this process does.