Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery

[Lestat]

A not to be underestimated problem is that the pioneers of our time are often described as megalomaniac or totally crazy, especially by the media. This happens at the moment, e.g. the Italian genius whom I like to refer to as the new Da Vinci, the neurosurgeon Sergio Canavero, who will succeed with the world's first head transplantation in 2018 and will silence the critics.

[kavan]

A not to be underestimated problem is that the pioneers of our time are often described as megalomaniac or totally crazy, especially by the media. This happens at the moment, e.g. the Italian genius whom I like to refer to as the new Da Vinci, the neurosurgeon Sergio Canavero, who will succeed with the world's first head transplantation in 2018 and will silence the critics.

I love head transplant stuff.

[GJ]

Stanford isn't what it used to be. Hasn't been that for 40 years.
Strange it still has the elite perception. Many Ivy's suffer the same problems. Education is watered down.

[kavan]

Stanford isn't what it used to be. Hasn't been that for 40 years.
Strange it still has the elite perception. Many Ivy's suffer the same problems. Education is watered down.

Harvard has gone way down hill too.

[GJ]

Harvard has gone way down hill too.

Yes.

[Lazlo]

Yes.

Harvard was never a place, or I should say the Medical School was never a place where state of the art maxillofacial surgery was done. It's always been Texas and California, that's where you'll find the best programs and docs and state of the art medicine. I don't even think Stanford is that great. Its more people like Wolford and Sinn who have spent their entire lives perfecting and practicing techniques that would never be sanctioned or taught in orthodox programs and then Arnett and Gunson who developed maverick technques and continue to push the art of maxillofacial surgery. The next bump will come from growing bone and gum/teeth in the lab, but that will be anywhere from 10-30 years from now. Don't hold your breath.

[GJ]

The next bump will come from growing bone and gum/teeth in the lab, but that will be anywhere from 10-30 years from now. Don't hold your breath.

When was the last major breakthrough in the surgery?

I can think of CCW and not wiring the jaws shut as two in the past 25 years. It's time for another major breakthrough. Everything tech and medical is moving fast, yet it seems jawsurgery isn't keeping up.

[kavan]

When was the last major breakthrough in the surgery?

I can think of CCW and not wiring the jaws shut as two in the past 25 years. It's time for another major breakthrough. Everything tech and medical is moving fast, yet it seems jawsurgery isn't keeping up.

How about the piezoelectric saw.

[Lazlo]

How about the piezoelectric saw.

I remember almost 9 years ago I saw a surgeon who was once the head of the maxillofacial surgeons union (or whatever its called) for north america and he was mostly a researcher. He told me that they were working on finding the correct lasers to be able to do incredibly precise osteotomies without disturbing or harming the soft tissue and preventing most surgical numbness etc.. and he said they were close but to not wait for it since iit would be at least 7-10 years. Well that research project. Flash foward 9 years must have not worked.

Medical is moving fast but disciplines and practice are slow to change. I think the innovations will come once we've established quantum computing. The human mind is too stupid to figure out how to jank all the stem cell stuff and grow cells for dental and jaw implantation. Without some serious janking this isn't gonna work. But again, are we even close?

[kavan]

I remember almost 9 years ago I saw a surgeon who was once the head of the maxillofacial surgeons union (or whatever its called) for north america and he was mostly a researcher. He told me that they were working on finding the correct lasers to be able to do incredibly precise osteotomies without disturbing or harming the soft tissue and preventing most surgical numbness etc.. and he said they were close but to not wait for it since iit would be at least 7-10 years. Well that research project. Flash foward 9 years must have not worked.

Medical is moving fast but disciplines and practice are slow to change. I think the innovations will come once we've established quantum computing. The human mind is too stupid to figure out how to jank all the stem cell stuff and grow cells for dental and jaw implantation. Without some serious janking this isn't gonna work. But again, are we even close?

A lot of studies and practices that use the piezoelectric saw. It's modern innovation surgery tool. http://www.wh.com/en_global/dental-newsroom/reportsandstudies/new-article/04787/

Not sure about lasers for that though as there is no vibration to them as has a saw and it seems like a good number of practices are using the pz saw now to cut through bone and not lasers.

[Lazlo]

This will be the future, but its at least 10 years away and then who knows how long till it will be used in jaw surgery.


THIS IS WHAT WE NEED!

http://www.epibone.com/#

[Lazlo]

In fact I've essentially given up hope.

Until we have precise biological implants for both onlay and grafting and advanced computers that can predict bone and soft tissue movement WE ARE f**kED.

It's basically a huge huge toss-up what the outcome of your surgery will be like. For those of us in the neg with looks we're f**ked. Too late. Might as well just get good at something or indulge in some other interest. You're not gonna ascend with this surgery. Guaranteed.

[Lazlo]

And if we look at this

"state of the art appraisal" of tissue engineering prospects for plastic surgery it says it takes about 20-30 years from basic science to clinical avaialbility based on how fast bone-marrow tech became a reality (or reflected in that as an example).

We're just at the level of "basic science" with tissue engineering and this article is even skeptical it is really possible. Too many barriers. Epibone is basically full of s**t. They're just probably setting up all this s**t so they can get venture capital funds and they're not even working on the basic science. A lot of companies like that out there right now. If they're little five-man company can get  10-20 million in funding they're good for salaries for the next 10 years, whether they produce anything or not.

Science is full of WAY WAY more bulls**t than any other enterprise. I know, I've seen it all.

[Lazlo]

here's the article

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5322281/

[GJ]

We're just at the level of "basic science" with tissue engineering and this article is even skeptical it is really possible. Too many barriers. Epibone is basically full of s**t. They're just probably setting up all this s**t so they can get venture capital funds and they're not even working on the basic science.

For sure. I have friends peddling penny stocks of these types of companies. No thanks.