Getting custom 3D CT-designed wraparound jaw and cheek implants in a few weeks

[kavan]

I agree with most of what you said, but at this point, I would be happy with a 60-70% improvement to my eye area so that it at least comes across as looking even just fairly attractive and not repulsive like it appears now. I realize that nothing is going to give me a legit MM-tier eye area, but by adding several mm of projection to/around the eye sockets and lifting the lower lids so as to eliminate roundness and scleral show (Dr. Y said 2-3 mm of lower lid lift would be possible via the midface lift), I'm hoping I can at least create the illusion of having deeper-set and better-shaped eyes that at least appear to be baseline attractive.

Have you seen some of Dr. Y's work? You might be surprised to see the eye area improvements he's achieved with the combination of orbital rim/midface implants, midface lifts, and canthopexies. Again, I agree with you that getting the eye area of an actual MM isn't happening (at least not without major reconstructive surgery), but don't you rhink that getting enough improvement to at least make it come across as somewhat attractive is within the realm of attainability?

BTW, the reason I decided to augment both the cheeks and jaw/chin is because I figured if I'm going to travel to have surgery, I might as well improve as many aspects of my attractiveness that could use improvement as possible.

I've seen a LOT of Y's work and enough to know that the people with the most eye POTENTIAL end up looking the best and those with inherent issues with the eyes--especially asymmetry where one eye is really 'off'-- start noticing it more even after it's technically improved.  If I were you, I would specifically ask to see photos of 'unWONKING' a wonky eye.

You have some kind of opthomology thing or inner orbital socket issue going on. You have something where one eye is looking at you and the other one looks like it's doing something else. ('Lazy eye'?) Sure, he will kick up some improvement to the eye area. But I think you should set your expectations to 'less asymmetry' and leave it at that.

[ben from UK]

Also @Ben from UK -- check out the Photoshop morph someone made for me in which they lowered my jaw angles and at least attempted to fix my eyes:

https://imgur.com/a/FQxhcEb

You don't think having lower jaw angles (as seen in the photo) would be a positive change for me? What about augmenting the cheeks and fixing the eyes, at least?

Of course the Photoshop morph looks better. Photoshop has nothing to do with silicone implants. It's crazy to believe that silicone implants give Photoshop results. That is just not true. With photoshop, the ogee line is preserved. But look at the majority of wrap around implants. They go high up under the masseter, pushing the masseter above the jaw angle in horizontal direction, often ruining the ogee line. That's why sometimes you see good results with fillers, because fillers only adress the jawangles, and silicone jaw angles go high up under the masseter. Add to that the fact that a thick layer of scar tissue builds up around the silicone implant, and the fact silicone almost never blends well into the face, and then you'll understand why dr. Y proposed silicone instead of Medpor. Cause he knows there's 50 percent chance you'll be dissatisfied with the results, and he'll just take if out and he won't care anymore. That's why they love to use silicone. It's easy money, once someone is dissatisfied, they'll just take the thing out. It's an outdated material.

[SurgerySoon]

I've seen a LOT of Y's work and enough to know that the people with the most eye POTENTIAL end up looking the best and those with inherent issues with the eyes--especially asymmetry where one eye is really 'off'-- start noticing it more even after it's technically improved.  If I were you, I would specifically ask to see photos of 'unWONKING' a wonky eye.

You have some kind of opthomology thing or inner orbital socket issue going on. You have something where one eye is looking at you and the other one looks like it's doing something else. ('Lazy eye'?) Sure, he will kick up some improvement to the eye area. But I think you should set your expectations to 'less asymmetry' and leave it at that.

@Kavan You're right, it's probably best to set my expectations low. I know that people have commented on whether or not I should do the jaw implants, but what's your opinion on the midface implants (technically a combined cheek + orbital rim implant)? Aside from improving the eye area to at least a mild-moderate extent, do you think I'd look better with more anterior projection (which Dr. Y is giving me quite a lot of at ~5 mm) of the cheekbones? I specifically told him I didn't want any submalar augmentation and that I wanted it to look masculine, defined, etc. I'm not sure if it's possible to tell in any of the photos I linked you to, but I actually have a relatively flat midface.

Here are a couple photos I took just now that give you an idea of just how much my cheeks lack anterior projection (also note the droopy/retracted lower eyelids):

https://imgur.com/a/tNh1UG4

You can also see that the chin is fairly weak as well. Dr. Y's plan for the chin is to add 5 mm of additional projection, which is a bit more than 2.5 nickels' widths, so that seems fairly conservative, I think. He also is planning on making it a bit wider to increase squareness.

Do you think I'm most likely to get a good result if I just do the cheeks and chin and leave the jaw alone?

[ben from UK]

Yeah okay, it looks a bit weaker from profile, but the problem is: how is it going to look from the front after implants? That's just my opinion. You might fix the weak chin from profile with implants and lower the jawangle, but how will the front look? You might win something from profile and lose from the front. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how i feel about it.

[SurgerySoon]

Of course the Photoshop morph looks better. Photoshop has nothing to do with silicone implants. It's crazy to believe that silicone implants give Photoshop results. That is just not true. With photoshop, the ogee line is preserved. But look at the majority of wrap around implants. They go high up under the masseter, pushing the masseter above the jaw angle in horizontal direction, often ruining the ogee line. That's why sometimes you see good results with fillers, because fillers only adress the jawangles, and silicone jaw angles go high up under the masseter. Add to that the fact that a thick layer of scar tissue builds up around the silicone implant, and the fact silicone almost never blends well into the face, and then you'll understand why dr. Y proposed silicone instead of Medpor. Cause he knows there's 50 percent chance you'll be dissatisfied with the results, and he'll just take if out and he won't care anymore. That's why they love to use silicone. It's easy money, once someone is dissatisfied, they'll just take the thing out. It's an outdated material.

Do you think that silicone is a bad material for cheek/orbital rim implants as well? What about for chin implants? Should I have opted for medpor for all the implants?

[ben from UK]

Do you think that silicone is a bad material for cheek/orbital rim implants as well? What about for chin implants? Should I have opted for medpor for all the implants?

Silicone is (my opinion) bad material for everything in the face. It's easy material. Put it in, put it out. Takes about 20 minutes. Easy money. It simply doesn't blend into the face, only in very rare cases maybe. It's soft material, you need hard material that replicates bone. Screws will fall out over the course of months or years, because it's soft, it will move to the bottom of the face when ageing. I'm not a fan of Medpor because what if you don't like the results? How are you going to take it out without cutting soft tissue? I won't say peek or titanium are better, because we just don't have enough data, and we simply don't know the infection rates, bone erosion, etc. But aestethically, they are superior to silicone.

[jusken]

It's absurd to me that you want to pursue surgery in your case. Most likely you'll go in thinking of the best case scenario, and slightly regretting it ultimately.  I mean, I get it - looks are very important. But all I see is a bunch of people getting funneled into a massively over sold industry with generally mediocre or worse results.

[kavan]

@Kavan You're right, it's probably best to set my expectations low. I know that people have commented on whether or not I should do the jaw implants, but what's your opinion on the midface implants (technically a combined cheek + orbital rim implant)? Aside from improving the eye area to at least a mild-moderate extent, do you think I'd look better with more anterior projection (which Dr. Y is giving me quite a lot of at ~5 mm) of the cheekbones? I specifically told him I didn't want any submalar augmentation and that I wanted it to look masculine, defined, etc. I'm not sure if it's possible to tell in any of the photos I linked you to, but I actually have a relatively flat midface.

Here are a couple photos I took just now that give you an idea of just how much my cheeks lack anterior projection (also note the droopy/retracted lower eyelids):

https://imgur.com/a/tNh1UG4

You can also see that the chin is fairly weak as well. Dr. Y's plan for the chin is to add 5 mm of additional projection, which is a bit more than 2.5 nickels' widths, so that seems fairly conservative, I think. He also is planning on making it a bit wider to increase squareness.

Do you think I'm most likely to get a good result if I just do the cheeks and chin and leave the jaw alone?

Doesn't matter. You didn't go in there with a focus on improvement as in looking like a better YOU. You went in there wanting some facial parts of a MM/celeb and the implants approximate THOSE parts. So, you will be getting the MM PARTS you requested.  You will just have to wait and see how those parts look on YOUR face. Divine or Different. Besides, last I checked, once the implants are designed and surgery is soon, no room for changes.

As to the 'should I get more projection', let it be known that he gets a lot of guys who want to look like BLOCK HEADS. They don't go in there specifically asking to look like a dumb LUNK and they don't know that's what they are asking for with the 'make me look like superman' genre of requests. It's just that their emphasis is having a jaw (or cheeks) 'just like' this or that model or celeb can just kick up a result of looking 'different' but not meet the goals of what they were exactly wanting or expecting to get out of it.

So, now with the VSP implant design programs, he gives people what they they ASK FOR. His hands are clean though if the end result is a 'monkeys paw' deal (getting what you ask for but wishing you didn't).

[SurgerySoon]

Silicone is (my opinion) bad material for everything in the face. It's easy material. Put it in, put it out. Takes about 20 minutes. Easy money. It simply doesn't blend into the face, only in very rare cases maybe. It's soft material, you need hard material that replicates bone. Screws will fall out over the course of months or years, because it's soft, it will move to the bottom of the face when ageing. I'm not a fan of Medpor because what if you don't like the results? How are you going to take it out without cutting soft tissue? I won't say peek or titanium are better, because we just don't have enough data, and we simply don't know the infection rates, bone erosion, etc. But aestethically, they are superior to silicone.

I had no idea silicone was such a s**tty material for face implants. Not that I'm arguing, but do you have any articles I could check out that mention screws being likely to fall out of silicone implants eventually?

Now I'm thinking I should've gone with medpor and just dealt with the risk that future removal might be really difficult.

Here are a few more photos I uploaded where you can really see the deficiencies in my bone structure. Obviously, the first series of photos I uploaded were taken in flattering lighting, after exercising and losing a lot of water weight, etc. These weren't:

https://imgur.com/a/hYjgfjg

Looking at those photos, do you still think I wouldn't benefit from getting implants placed to improve cheek and chin projection at least (not to mention the midface lift to improve lower eyelids)? You don't see how flat the midface is when I'm not frauding by clenching my jaw, flexing my cheek muscles, etc?

[SurgerySoon]

Doesn't matter. You didn't go in there with a focus on improvement as in looking like a better YOU. You went in there wanting some facial parts of a MM/celeb and the implants approximate THOSE parts. So, you will be getting the MM PARTS you requested.  You will just have to wait and see how those parts look on YOUR face. Divine or Different. Besides, last I checked, once the implants are designed and surgery is soon, no room for changes.

As to the 'should I get more projection', let it be known that he gets a lot of guys who want to look like BLOCK HEADS. They don't go in there specifically asking to look like a dumb LUNK and they don't know that's what they are asking for with the 'make me look like superman' genre of requests. It's just that their emphasis is having a jaw (or cheeks) 'just like' this or that model or celeb can just kick up a result of looking 'different' but not meet the goals of what they were exactly wanting or expecting to get out of it.

So, now with the VSP implant design programs, he gives people what they they ASK FOR. His hands are clean though if the end result is a 'monkeys paw' deal (getting what you ask for but wishing you didn't).

I get what you are saying, but I was under the impression that Dr. Y was still somewhat conservative when it comes to trying to give patients results that are still aesthetically pleasing. In other words, if getting "only" 60% of a certain look is as far as he feels someone can go while still looking attractive and normal, then he won't go any further than that.

That's one reason I never considered going to Eppley -- I understand that he truly will give a patient whatever they want, even if it isn't likely to result in an aesthetically pleasing outcome. There are plenty of before/after results that demonstrate this willingness as well. So now you're saying that Dr. Y is just as bad as Dr. E in that regard?

To be honest, one of my reasons for choosing Dr. Y for these procedures was because I trusted him to design implants that would get me somewhat close to my goal while still looking "good" in a general aesthetic sense.

[kavan]

I get what you are saying, but I was under the impression that Dr. Y was still somewhat conservative when it comes to trying to give patients results that are still aesthetically pleasing. In other words, if getting "only" 60% of a certain look is as far as he feels someone can go while still looking attractive and normal, then he won't go any further than that.

That's one reason I never considered going to Eppley -- I understand that he truly will give a patient whatever they want, even if it isn't likely to result in an aesthetically pleasing outcome. There are plenty of before/after results that demonstrate this willingness as well. So now you're saying that Dr. Y is just as bad as Dr. E in that regard?

To be honest, one of my reasons for choosing Dr. Y for these procedures was because I trusted him to design implants that would get me somewhat close to my goal while still looking "good" in a general aesthetic sense.

I think Y is more skilled than Eppley. But this is big biz and the present day market of guys wanting to have block head looks (even if they don't know they are asking for it) has SKEWED things. Y sees that a lot of dumb lunks are HAPPY when they get a disproportionate look. So it looks like he's just letting people take more responsibility for their requests.

You didn't go in there with a general request to look good. Don't bulls**t me. You went in there wanting the face PARTS of Superman just like a lot of Eppley patients and/or Lookism types wanting to increase their lay base.

As I said, the PARTS you requested DO look to be the parts models have but I don't see you getting the whole 'gestalt' of the MM because that's directly attributable to the EYES.

One of your eyes is OK but you do have one problem eye which throws of the whole balance of your face.  Here's your most recent photo where I've flipped the sides of your face. This should make it easier for people to see that it's ONE eye that's changing the whole look of your face. I know we speak in PLURAL as in eyeS. But I would suggest you ask him more questions about the SINGULAR eye and what 'matching up' with the other one you can expect.

[fulcanelli]

Wow yep it’s just that eye. Scrap the implants and fix that. And seriously get a stubble trimmer and do number 5 on the goatee and number 3 on the sides . It’ll look great

[Post bimax]

Kavan is right. And to repeat, you have perfectly normal and even above 'average' structure and facial balance.  If you REALLY want to add something like more chin projection or length I think you would be better off with a small SG than a silicone implant. Better long term stability and you won't be constantly worried about things shifting around because it's your own bone.

[Lazlo]

I mean this as a friend: you definitely have some kind of BDD issue. I would cancel all surgeries and see a therapist. I can't believe Dr. Y would even agree to do things like a midface lift etc. on you. It's madness.

[SurgerySoon]

I think Y is more skilled than Eppley. But this is big biz and the present day market of guys wanting to have block head looks (even if they don't know they are asking for it) has SKEWED things. Y sees that a lot of dumb lunks are HAPPY when they get a disproportionate look. So it looks like he's just letting people take more responsibility for their requests.

You didn't go in there with a general request to look good. Don't bulls**t me. You went in there wanting the face PARTS of Superman just like a lot of Eppley patients and/or Lookism types wanting to increase their lay base.

As I said, the PARTS you requested DO look to be the parts models have but I don't see you getting the whole 'gestalt' of the MM because that's directly attributable to the EYES.

One of your eyes is OK but you do have one problem eye which throws of the whole balance of your face.  Here's your most recent photo where I've flipped the sides of your face. This should make it easier for people to see that it's ONE eye that's changing the whole look of your face. I know we speak in PLURAL as in eyeS. But I would suggest you ask him more questions about the SINGULAR eye and what 'matching up' with the other one you can expect.

I have emailed Dr. Y and asked him what he plans on doing (aside from the midface lift) to improve the eyes; will report back when I hear from him. I'm still not 100% confirmed on the wraparound jaw implant, so depending on how I feel about it as I get closer to the surgery date, I might just opt for the custom cheek and chin implants.