Almost decided to do a Genioplasty. Need advice

[kavan]

Okay, I see what you’re saying. Looking at “picture 3” again it’s apparent his teeth are probably not in occlusion. Do you think he could still benefit from just a genio? It may not replicate what he’s doing in the pic but his chin is still vertically short.

They are most certainly not in occlusion. A deep biter will have a SPACE between is upper and lower BACK teeth when he lowers his jaw to get the front teeth to meet edge to edge. He would most certainly NOT have the benefit he's demonstrating in the mirror with a stand alone genio. Stand alone genio is never the 'solution' for recession to the jaw which is what he has with his DEEP bite.

[kavan]

Forgot to mention.
I have a tendency to a deep bite
I have a deep labiomental fold because of this
I have a class 1 bite.

The main thing is to increase my vertical length of the chin to reduce the labiomental fold. In my estimation around 8 mm. Forward projection around 5mm maybe? I really dont know.

Better check on that. Deep bite is often Class 2 Division 2.

[Cobolt2]

Hello kavan, thanks for your input.

I've read through all of what you have said and I still have a hard time understanding why a single genio wouldn't give me satisfying results. Of course my teeth are not in occlusion when jutting my jaw forward.
I mean, if you look at the very first picture in my post where my teeth are in occlusion, and you imagine my chin going diagonally downward, wouldn't this result in a scenario close to the picture below it? I mean, bones are being moved, something is going to happen in a downward and forward direction.
OBSERVE I'm only talking about the frontal part of my face. Look at the pictures below. Is this an unrealistic result from a genio alone?

An oral surgeon told me that I have a class 1 bite, also I do not know if I qualify of having a deep bite, the same surgeon said that I have a tendency to having a deep bite. Maybe I am a class 2 bite skeltally but masked by having a dental class1 bite idk, all I know is that I have a dental class 1 bite.

[kavan]

Hello kavan, thanks for your input.

I've read through all of what you have said and I still have a hard time understanding why a single genio wouldn't give me satisfying results. Of course my teeth are not in occlusion when jutting my jaw forward.
I mean, if you look at the very first picture in my post where my teeth are in occlusion, and you imagine my chin going diagonally downward, wouldn't this result in a scenario close to the picture below it? I mean, bones are being moved, something is going to happen in a downward and forward direction.
OBSERVE I'm only talking about the frontal part of my face. Look at the pictures below. Is this an unrealistic result from a genio alone?

An oral surgeon told me that I have a class 1 bite, also I do not know if I qualify of having a deep bite, the same surgeon said that I have a tendency to having a deep bite. Maybe I am a class 2 bite skeltally but masked by having a dental class1 bite idk, all I know is that I have a dental class 1 bite.

I don't think you have a hard time 'understanding'. That should not be the case given i broke down the explanation so most people would understand. More of a matter that you would like to believe or HOPE a genio would do for you what you're doing with your jaw in the mirror. I'm just letting you find out the easy way.

If you want to get an idea of how a genio would look, maintain your bite and put some flesh colored putty over your chin.

[Cobolt2]

I don't think you have a hard time 'understanding'. That should not be the case given i broke down the explanation so most people would understand. More of a matter that you would like to believe or HOPE a genio would do for you what you're doing with your jaw in the mirror. I'm just letting you find out the easy way.

If you want to get an idea of how a genio would look, maintain your bite and put some flesh colored putty over your chin.

I am looking at before and after pictures of genioplastys and I while looking at some incredible results I still can't see why it wouldn't be possible to get the results I want. I recently sent the same pictures to Dr Alejandro Nogueira and he told me it wasnt unrealistic.

If I were to put flesh colored putty on my chin it wouldn't have any "dragging down" effect on the soft tissue as a vertically lengthening genio would have.

Im not looking for a sliding genio, I'm looking for a 8mm vertical lengthening which would decrease my labiomental fold and a horizontal projection of max 7mm.

[Tezcatli]

Correct that he would look better with full jaw surgery. But for reasons that what he's doing in the mirror--although not an exact prediction of it-- is giving himself the type of 'face space' the type of full jaw surgery for DEEP BITE would give him. Also correct that he would need a long stretch of braces to prepare for it. They 'buck out' the top teeth as part of the correction of what he has which helps give room to move the lower jaw forward. He most certainly is NOT showing what only a genio (advance + elongation) would do.

Yeah, viewing it again you're right. I still think a genio could give him some improvement if he doesn't want real jaw surgery.
Do you agree his maxilla is recessed? Just by looking at it I'd say so, I think some people do not understand that you can have both jaws recessed, not everybody has a small mandible only or a large mandible and small maxilla. I had both of them recessed, although the maxilla more so.

[Post bimax]

Yeah, viewing it again you're right. I still think a genio could give him some improvement if he doesn't want real jaw surgery.
Do you agree his maxilla is recessed? Just by looking at it I'd say so, I think some people do not understand that you can have both jaws recessed, not everybody has a small mandible only or a large mandible and small maxilla. I had both of them recessed, although the maxilla more so.

Visually, his maxilla is at least in the ‘normal’ range. Maxilla projection isn’t that important for male aesthetics and advancing it with a LF1 rather than natural growth can have bad side effects. I see no reason to risk this when his aesthetic deficiency is due to his mandible/chin. If he were to get a bimax he should get mandible advancement via CCW while keeping the maxilla as horizontally neutral as possible.

Kavan is right from a technical perspective about what Cobolt is doing in the photos. I still maintain a genioplasty would be beneficial, and I would add that putting putty on your chin does not give an accurate representation of what a genioplasty would achieve. You would need to put the putty under your skin.

[Cobolt2]

I don't agree regarding the putty at all, basically what you are saying with that kacan, is that a genioplasty cant' level out a deep labiomental fold which in fact it really can.

[kavan]

I don't agree regarding the putty at all, basically what you are saying with that kacan, is that a genioplasty cant' level out a deep labiomental fold which in fact it really can.

One does NOT simulate a genio by jutting out the jaw. It's YOUR face. Do what you want with it. You've been advised. End of story.

[kavan]

Visually, his maxilla is at least in the ‘normal’ range. Maxilla projection isn’t that important for male aesthetics and advancing it with a LF1 rather than natural growth can have bad side effects. I see no reason to risk this when his aesthetic deficiency is due to his mandible/chin. If he were to get a bimax he should get mandible advancement via CCW while keeping the maxilla as horizontally neutral as possible.

Kavan is right from a technical perspective about what Cobolt is doing in the photos. I still maintain a genioplasty would be beneficial, and I would add that putting putty on your chin does not give an accurate representation of what a genioplasty would achieve. You would need to put the putty under your skin.

Jutting out the jaw does NOT simulate a genio. he can get the genio and find that out for himself.

[Cobolt2]

Jutting out the jaw does NOT simulate a genio. he can get the genio and find that out for himself.

Why so hostile? I have never tried to simulate a genio, I was just showing how I look most of the time (jutting my jaw) and that I would like a result kind of like that. Mostly what I'm interested in is a straight horizontal jawline and it seems to me that it can be possible with a genioplasty. My second goal is to decrease the fold by increasing my chin height which also should be possible looking at before/after pics of others.

[kavan]

I am looking at before and after pictures of genioplastys and I while looking at some incredible results I still can't see why it wouldn't be possible to get the results I want. I recently sent the same pictures to Dr Alejandro Nogueira and he told me it wasnt unrealistic.

If I were to put flesh colored putty on my chin it wouldn't have any "dragging down" effect on the soft tissue as a vertically lengthening genio would have.

Im not looking for a sliding genio, I'm looking for a 8mm vertical lengthening which would decrease my labiomental fold and a horizontal projection of max 7mm.

Then get your genio and come back to relay how it works out for you. I've given my advice. Best way for you to find out that it won't look like you are doing in the mirror is to JUST GET IT. I did NOT say 'sliding genio' in any of my posts. Check your reading comprehension.

Enough time spent giving you advice you won't be getting elsewhere. Do what you're going to do.

[kavan]

Why so hostile? I have never tried to simulate a genio, I was just showing how I look most of the time (jutting my jaw) and that I would like a result kind of like that. Mostly what I'm interested in is a straight horizontal jawline and it seems to me that it can be possible with a genioplasty. My second gold is to decrease the fold by increasing my chin height which also should be possible looking at before/after pics of others.

End of advising you because enough was already given. Do what you are going to do and report back how it works for you.

[Post bimax]

Why so hostile? I have never tried to simulate a genio, I was just showing how I look most of the time (jutting my jaw) and that I would like a result kind of like that. Mostly what I'm interested in is a straight horizontal jawline and it seems to me that it can be possible with a genioplasty. My second goal is to decrease the fold by increasing my chin height which also should be possible looking at before/after pics of others.

He writes like that don’t take it personally. He did give you some good info about what you are ‘actually’ doing in the pictures you provided along with a detailed explanation of how that would be replicated with jaw surgery. The genio IS in fact different than what you are doing and will therefore have a different aesthetic effect. I personally think you would still benefit from it even if it does not replicate what you are doing. You need to ask your surgeon about all of this before going through with it, and communicate exactly what you want. Some surgeons do morphs which would help.

[fulcanelli]

I have similar jaw issues. Deep bite, recessed chin. I didn’t qualify for full jaw surgery on NHS but they offered mrs genio and I took it. It’s a definite aesthetic improvement, really it changed my life going from weak chin to strong chin.

It’s not perfect, it’s maskinv a problem and maybe full jaw surgery would have fixed all my problems. But read around on this board, it doesn’t always go well and it’s a lot of time and money to invest.

Good luck with what ever you decide.