Sailer transformation: what was done in this case?

[Abdulrahman]

I saw this before and after in Sailer's website, facelift section. It's clearly more than just a facelift. It seems she had her upper and lower jaws moved forward. Maybe a CCW rotation. Most likely a genioplasty and defiantly a rhinoplasty. 

What do you think she had and what do you think of the quality of her transformation?

https://www.sailerclinic.com/en/specialist-fields/aesthetic-surgery/facelift/

       

[Post bimax]

Looks like jaw implants too

[kavan]

Double jaw forward advancement with ccw, genio, rhinoplasty, onlay augmentation to cheeks and jaw, face and neck lifting and some PHOTO SHOP.

Yes. It's clearly more than just a face lift to THIS audience on a JAW SURGERY board. But his calling it a 'face lift' would not be clear to many others looking for a face lift but who were not familiar or directly pursuing bone cutting maxfax surgery with facial implant augmentation.

The fact that you HAD TO ASK what she had means that he failed to CLEARLY disclose ALL the procedures she had and uses a form of TRICKERY in his presentation.

In my opinion, he's a deceptive doctor who (Swiss) BANKS on such duplicity not being detected by those he's wanting to dupe by it.

Take for example the twist of words: "In the method developed by Professor Sailer,......This unique operation......." The claim is that he 'developed a face lifting' method that is 'unique'. Well, he didn't develop methods used in MAXFAX surgery with face implants, genios and rhinos, ect. Another example is saying this 'FACELIFT' (performed under general anesthesia) is 'painless'. Well ALL surgeries performed under GA (before the patient wakes up) are painless.

The main thing that is unique to Sailer is SUBTERFUGE; the act of using duplicity to decieve. Here by appropriating the term 'face lift', slapping the prefix of 'reverse' to it and NOT making CLEAR the main method is MAXFAX surgery. Given that the average person seeking out a FACE LIFT is not specifically seeking out a laundry list of BONE CUTTING and facial implant surgeries and he WITHHOLDS--omits to make clear the laundry list of procedures which are NOT 'face lift' techniques, it's SUBTERFUGE.

TBH, the mods here at JSF are not impressed with this type of marketing and we find mention of him somewhat of a board burden because then we have to end up disclosing what he doesn't. Let me put it this way, if Sailer didn't purposely makes UNCLEAR every procedure that woman got and didn't attempt to deceive by using the term 'face lift', you would not have had this question, nor would this site been 'graced' by a link to bulls**t way of marketing.

[Abdulrahman]

Looks like jaw implants too

Yea I was wondering about the mid face, weather le fort 2 could be the cause of such change, but implants make more sense, in the back of the lower jaw as well. 

Double jaw forward advancement with ccw, genio, rhinoplasty, onlay augmentation to cheeks and jaw, face and neck lifting and some PHOTO SHOP.

I would like to add to the list makeup, as that does make a difference but what do you mean by the part in bold, that's basically like implants with mold-able materiel such as the bone cartilage stuff on his website, right?

As for photoshop, which part do you think was enhanced beyond the results of of the surgery? 

Yes. It's clearly more than just a face lift to THIS audience on a JAW SURGERY board. But his calling it a 'face lift' would not be clear to many others looking for a face lift but who were not familiar or directly pursuing bone cutting maxfax surgery with facial implant augmentation.

The fact that you HAD TO ASK what she had means that he failed to CLEARLY disclose ALL the procedures she had and uses a form of TRICKERY in his presentation.

In my opinion, he's a deceptive doctor who (Swiss) BANKS on such duplicity not being detected by those he's wanting to dupe by it.

Take for example the twist of words: "In the method developed by Professor Sailer,......This unique operation......." The claim is that he 'developed a face lifting' method that is 'unique'. Well, he didn't develop methods used in MAXFAX surgery with face implants, genios and rhinos, ect. Another example is saying this 'FACELIFT' (performed under general anesthesia) is 'painless'. Well ALL surgeries performed under GA (before the patient wakes up) are painless.

The main thing that is unique to Sailer is SUBTERFUGE; the act of using duplicity to decieve. Here by appropriating the term 'face lift', slapping the prefix of 'reverse' to it and NOT making CLEAR the main method is MAXFAX surgery. Given that the average person seeking out a FACE LIFT is not specifically seeking out a laundry list of BONE CUTTING and facial implant surgeries and he WITHHOLDS--omits to make clear the laundry list of procedures which are NOT 'face lift' techniques, it's SUBTERFUGE.

TBH, the mods here at JSF are not impressed with this type of marketing and we find mention of him somewhat of a board burden because then we have to end up disclosing what he doesn't. Let me put it this way, if Sailer didn't purposely makes UNCLEAR every procedure that woman got and didn't attempt to deceive by using the term 'face lift', you would not have had this question, nor would this site been 'graced' by a link to bulls**t way of marketing.

The way his website is designed the same set of pictures can show up in several sections. For example, there is one guy who shows up in all sections, but this set only shows up in facelift which does not make sense. Weather this was intentionally deceptive I have no idea. You obviously have knowledge about Sailer and his ways.


Putting this aside for a second what do you guys think of this result, is it good? I honestly didn't expect to see this kind of transformation and do indeed wonder if photoshop had any role?

[kavan]

Yea I was wondering about the mid face, weather le fort 2 could be the cause of such change, but implants make more sense, in the back of the lower jaw as well. 


I would like to add to the list makeup, as that does make a difference but what do you mean by the part in bold, that's basically like implants with mold-able materiel such as the bone cartilage stuff on his website, right?

As for photoshop, which part do you think was enhanced beyond the results of of the surgery? 


The way his website is designed the same set of pictures can show up in several sections. For example, there is one guy who shows up in all sections, but this set only shows up in facelift which does not make sense. Weather this was intentionally deceptive I have no idea. You obviously have knowledge about Sailer and his ways.


Putting this aside for a second what do you guys think of this result, is it good? I honestly didn't expect to see this kind of transformation and do indeed wonder if photoshop had any role?

Face implants are 'onlays' to augment the face. Photo shop means tinkering with the photos to make the results look better such as shadowing the back angle and adding an outline to the jawline. Besides, there have been other photos on his site that had all the ear marks of being photo shopped and confirmation of a patient of his that photo shopping is done.

Discussion of his results; DISALLOWED.
Grounds: Deceptive tactics in the presentation, failure to disclose ALL the procedures used and instead using implication they arose from a 'facelift' technique.

[Lefortitude]

Discussion of his results; DISALLOWED.
Grounds: Deceptive tactics in the presentation, failure to disclose ALL the procedures used and instead using implication they arose from a 'facelift' technique.

At first this was kind of jarring to hear, being a board for discussion on the topic.  However, thinking about it for a second it makes sense based on the confirmation of photoshop being used.  Imagine if people just started posting PS morphs and discussing the "result"?.  It could deceive anyone reading into thinking that kind of result is even possible from such a surgery.

I've also seen some hideous results from sailer patients in real life.

[Dogmatix]

Another example is saying this 'FACELIFT' (performed under general anesthesia) is 'painless'. Well ALL surgeries performed under GA (before the patient wakes up) are painless.

Haha, this is so close to what's normally going on in my head when reading around on different surgeons sites. There is so much effort put into marketing procedures with fast recovery and how easy everything is that it get ridiculous. We all know that these are very serious procedures and at least what attracts me is when it's not glorified and just getting down to what's actually going on. These are hard decisions as it is, and to always have the focus shiftet to nonsens marketing is confusing when you struggle to get the real facts.

A fun idea would be if a surgeon would put up all of his worst cases on his site, and have all patients being positively surprised at their outcome . We're not interested in the best cases, any surgeon can be lucky. We're interested in where the lower bar is.

[kavan]

At first this was kind of jarring to hear, being a board for discussion on the topic.  However, thinking about it for a second it makes sense based on the confirmation of photoshop being used. Imagine if people just started posting PS morphs and discussing the "result"?.  It could deceive anyone reading into thinking that kind of result is even possible from such a surgery.

I've also seen some hideous results from sailer patients in real life.

Very good point.

Discussion disallowed refers to my not engaging discussion as to if this is a good 'result' and also giving a heads up to others not to fall into the trap of discussing 'results' when doctors are NOT forthright about what the after is actually a result of. Results of WHAT?

The OP is effectively requesting that we 'put aside' the type of deception being used and comment on whether this 'result' is good. It's not too far from what Sailer wants his audience to do when he presents a patient with a LITANY of maxfax ,facial implant,ect procedures, plays things up by photo shopping and calls the 'result' a FACE LIFT. OK, well, that's the best 'facelift' that anyone has ever seen, EXCEPT for ONE thing. It ISN'T a facelift.

The fact that that it has to be asked; 'What is this a result of?' for a photo that's marketed as Sailer's 'unique' facelift technique that he 'developed' only deserves to bring forth discussion that calls into question the type of subterfuge Sailer uses. IMO, it doesn't deserve any discussion of whether this 'result' is good. Basically, WHY should we be discussing 'results' of something when a doctor isn't forthright as to what the outcome is actually a result of.

IMO, doctors who are worthy of having their results discussed are those who are forthright enough to make very clear as to ALL of the procedures that produced them and of course, having no history of photoshopping.

[kavan]

Haha, this is so close to what's normally going on in my head when reading around on different surgeons sites. There is so much effort put into marketing procedures with fast recovery and how easy everything is that it get ridiculous. We all know that these are very serious procedures and at least what attracts me is when it's not glorified and just getting down to what's actually going on. These are hard decisions as it is, and to always have the focus shiftet to nonsens marketing is confusing when you struggle to get the real facts.

A fun idea would be if a surgeon would put up all of his worst cases on his site, and have all patients being positively surprised at their outcome . We're not interested in the best cases, any surgeon can be lucky. We're interested in where the lower bar is.

....and after this painless surgery (that's painless WHILE you're under), you'll be in the hospital for 4 days (perhaps including the administration of IV pain drips like morphine?) and after that,  in close by hotel for about 6 or so to get daily medical attention (perhaps including the transition to oral narcotics for pain control?).