Emotional/sad/ do we all have bdd?

[ben from UK]

I'm a recessed dork, and I've had more attractive girlfriends than many "male model" types (these guys are usually gay, for one, but other issues such as femininity in a man). I wonder how I'd fit in the incel theology.

I think athletes get more women than models. Models are feminine, and girls over 18 rarely want to date female looking guys. I have a theory that young girls like feminine guys because they're not yet mentally ready for sex and a feminine guy is safe. After 18 or so they want a neutral or masculine guy, in general.

Anyway, ugly people can date attractive women if they're funny, interesting, not desperate (most important maybe), etc. Money isn't as big an issue as people think. The big problem is when you're unattractive and possess no good personality traits. Then you're truly doomed.

What's a good personality trait? So because some incels post hateful massages about women, they don't have good personalities? Give me a break. I spoke to some incels and they seem like soft and quite nice when you speak with them privately. Everyone has different identities nowadays. Online personality/real personality/how they view themselves/how others view themselves etc. If we're going to measure someone's personality based on what the majority thinks (incels are bad), then Hitler was a good guy, cause he was liked by the majority of germans in the 30s.

Also, alot of theories about looks that are discussed here, came from online discussions between incels years ago. Canthal tilt, facial thirds, hunter eyes etc.

The blackpill is a toxic philosophy but the truth was never meant to be nice.

This board is full of incels by the way. I'm not one myself cause I slept with many women. It's better not to get involved on incel boards but that doesn't mean everything they discuss is untrue. Many things that are discussed on this board are discussed on incel boards as well. There's a thin line.

[Lefortitude]

Did you know that all modern humans have twice as many female ancestors as male? On first thought, it sounds ridiculous, but on average 50% of men in history have not been able to reproduce. So what ended up happening historically is that every man who could reproduce had an average of two children, and every woman who could reproduce had an average of one child. If you average that over a few thousand generations, 2 female ancestors for every male.

The important part is that historically 50% of men could not reproduce. I have a lot of sympathy for the suffering of those men, but at the same time its natural selection and i don't believe it should be tampered with on a mass level.  The prominence of the Catholic church and its influence on the state during the Victorian era leveled that out artificially, creating a one man/one woman system.  With the separation of church and state, the invention of contraception (and the sexual liberation movement in the 60s) the decline of religion (i.e the "death of God") and the availability phenomenon created by online dating, we're seeing a reemergence of men who can not reproduce.  I don't see it as an axiomatically bad thing unless it starts growing to the level where it destabilizes society. Again, my heart goes out to that 50% of men. Hopefully, they can find other ways to make life meaningful. 

[cambree]

CBT is frequently thought to work for bdd but what I feel is that like OCD, you are probably just dialling back the anxiety so its not always at a sky high debilitating pitch that renders you non functional. However it is always there, even if it is just background noise and this is very hard to deal with or accept as a long term prognosis

[Post bimax]

Did you know that all modern humans have twice as many female ancestors as male? On first thought, it sounds ridiculous, but on average 50% of men in history have not been able to reproduce. So what ended up happening historically is that every man who could reproduce had an average of two children, and every woman who could reproduce had an average of one child. If you average that over a few thousand generations, 2 female ancestors for every male.

The important part is that historically 50% of men could not reproduce. I have a lot of sympathy for the suffering of those men, but at the same time its natural selection and i don't believe it should be tampered with on a mass level.  The prominence of the Catholic church and its influence on the state during the Victorian era leveled that out artificially, creating a one man/one woman system.  With the separation of church and state, the invention of contraception (and the sexual liberation movement in the 60s) the decline of religion (i.e the "death of God") and the availability phenomenon created by online dating, we're seeing a reemergence of men who can not reproduce.  I don't see it as an axiomatically bad thing unless it starts growing to the level where it destabilizes society. Again, my heart goes out to that 50% of men. Hopefully, they can find other ways to make life meaningful.

The number of 'incel' men is about 27% according to the most recent research.  Better than 50% but still shocking.  That's a 3-fold increase in the past decade.  I don't think the decline of socio/religious norms has been particularly pronounced in the past 10 years, so I think there are other cultural factors at play.

Honestly the prevalence of dating apps is a big deal.  Women instantly have access to the 'highest value' men, and women are far more sexually selective than men, so there's no incentive for them to settle for a 'lesser' specimen.  I consider myself at least somewhat attractive, but my experience with dating apps was mediocre to disappointing.  I can't imagine what the experience is like for guys that are even less fortunate.  I've read stories from normal looking guys that go months without a matching with a single (real) girl.  That is just horrible.

Increasingly atomized social life in advanced capitalist society has huge drawbacks for many men's ability to properly socialize with women in the first place.  When most of our interactions are digitally mediated, real-life flirting becomes an anxiety inducing experience for many men. Digital contact becomes the default social form, and that leaves a lot of otherwise perfectly normal guys in the dust.

[GJ]

So because some incels post hateful massages about women, they don't have good personalities?

Correct. Hatred is a bad personality trait.

I spoke to some incels and they seem like soft and quite nice when you speak with them privately.

Being "soft and quit" isn't good or bad on its own. Being nice is good, but nice people don't lash out at women/society on forums and then act differently in private. I never said all incels are terrible. At least I don't think I did. But the ones who post on those forums lashing out at society for their plight have terrible personalities. That is holding them back more than looks.

[ben from UK]

Correct. Hatred is a bad personality trait.

Being "soft and quit" isn't good or bad on its own. Being nice is good, but nice people don't lash out at women/society on forums and then act differently in private. I never said all incels are terrible. At least I don't think I did. But the ones who post on those forums lashing out at society for their plight have terrible personalities. That is holding them back more than looks.

Hatred is not a personality trait, it's an emotion. You aren't born with hate, you become hateful, whether it's due to the environment, upbringing or because of mental problems, or a combination of that.


But the ones who post on those forums lashing out at society for their plight have terrible personalities. That is holding them back more than looks.

I don't agree with that. If they act normal in real life, how could it hold them back. If there's something holding them back, it's their level of anxiety and insecurity, due to their perceived looks or due to objectively bad looks. You can act like a prick in real life, there's always someone that will like you. But if you're anxious and insecure, and you don't come out of your own house, it will be difficult. Also, even pricks have good traits. There's no such thing as a bad of good person. And person A can like you, person B can hate you. Which one is right?

If I'm talking about my personal situation: before i fcked up my looks with a couple of procedures, people liked me and I had many friends. After soms bad procedures, people acted mean and bad towards me (can't blame them). I can tell you for sure that my personality hasn't changed. Now, if I wasn't so focussed on looks, I wouldn't give a damn about other people's reactions.

The evil is not within incels or another particular group, the evil is within human nature in general. Anyway, I'm not trying to have a debate here about incels or whatever.

I just think there's soms level of bdd or whatever you may call it in someone that tries to change his or her looks, whether it's an incel or not. Thing is, many procedures don't give good results. I think it would be more productive if time and energy is focused on techniques, skills, materials etc. Good results may not take away psychological damage, someone's past or all anxiety, but it can improve someone's quality of life, making him of her more accepted, improve his or her sexlife and therefore indirectly take away part of insecurity, hatred or anxiety. But you always have to look at the individual case. Some people only need an improvement in looks, others only therapy and others both.

[Lefortitude]

If I'm talking about my personal situation: before i fcked up my looks with a couple of procedures, people liked me and I had many friends. After soms bad procedures, people acted mean and bad towards me (can't blame them). I can tell you for sure that my personality hasn't changed. Now, if I wasn't so focussed on looks, I wouldn't give a damn about other people's reactions.

You lost friends after you had surgeries go wrong? Were you badly disfigured beyond reconstruction? This sounds crazy to me; I've always imagined my true friends will still treat me the same regardless of how I look. Perhaps im still somewhat delusional when it comes to this regard.

[ben from UK]

You lost friends after you had surgeries go wrong? Were you badly disfigured beyond reconstruction? This sounds crazy to me; I've always imagined my true friends will still treat me the same regardless of how I look. Perhaps im still somewhat delusional when it comes to this regard.

Not really lost friends but lost my popularity. Begane difficult to meet new people etc.

[Post bimax]

Not really lost friends but lost my popularity. Begane difficult to meet new people etc.

This is from your CW and PEEK implants?