Getting custom 3D CT-designed wraparound jaw and cheek implants in a few weeks

[kavan]

@Kagan I was just trying to do some basic measurements a few minutes ago based on eyeballing the changes you made in the morph, and it looks like my jaw angles were each probably dropped by about an inch (or maybe a little less)? Would you say this is roughly correct? The reason I ask is because it looks like they were lowered by way more than 5 mm and 7 mm each, but I could be wrong. Just curious...

I'm sorry but this is getting incredibly tedious because it takes a LOT of TIME for me to
do this stuff. It's even more tedious to explain. I shall try.

When I did your morph, I viewed the implants (from the front) and noted that the base of chin was not dropped vertically. So, I kept that constant. I eyeballed the angle DECREASE to be approx 8-10 deg. decrease. So, on the morph, I eyeballed approx an 8-10 angle decrease.

Now the tedious part was CHECKING that for you via hand held protractor against screen.

I took your before photo and lined it up with the after morph. I measured the degrees from start which was about 45 and degrees from end (on morph) which was about 37 and I got a 8 degree DECREASE.

I then checked the implant diagram and reversed it so the side of the 'good eye' where there was less midface projection was on same side as morph with 'good eye'.

I measured the start angle which was about 34 deg. I measured the end angle which was about 26 deg. The DECREASE was 8 deg.

Low and behold, I find the angle decrease measured on the implant diagram is SAME as that on the morph. 8 degree angle decrease in mandibular border as seen from the FRONT.

That's the best angle approximation I can do with a 'selfie' photo when comparing it to the implant diagram. I look at approximate angle DECREASE from the FRONT and give the morph the same/similar angle decrease from the FRONT.

There are NO 'inches' here. There is NO way to predict 'exactly' what you would look like. But my approximation of about an 8-10 degree angle DECREASE where your morph has an 8 deg angle decrease is consistent with the angle decrease seen on the implant diagram.

That was the METHODOLOGY I used to do the morph APPROXIMATION.

You will NOTE that the VSP (program) used for the implant design isn't even one where it SHOWS YOU a prediction of your (soft tissue) FACE from the front. So, my approximation isn't bad.

Again, the angle DECREASE along the mandibular border as shown on the implant diagram is about 8 degrees. The morph (and mind you after I took extra time to MEASURE my 'eyeball' angle decrease) was ALSO an 8 degree angle decrease along the mandibular border you see from the FRONT.

That's pretty much the LIMIT of what I can do here for you when using a selfie.

I realize that other people can morph you as to provide something that looks good to their EYE and look better to you than this morph. That's fine BUT I'm NOT doing that. So the morph is not MY aesthetic preference for your face. I'm NOT designing your face. What I'm doing (here as to the jaw) is using a METHODOLOGY where I gave the morph the same/similar ANGLE DECREASE from the FRONT that I observed on the implant diagram.

That's the methodology I used. It is SUFFICIENT to illustrate SOMETHING in the VENUE of what MMs have and I've already TOLD you that requests based on wanting a PART that a MM has do NOT necessarily result in the WHOLE 'gestalt' of what the MM has.

What you need is CERTAINTY, an exact prediction of how the jaw implant will look on your face when YOU look in the mirror..or here an exact prediction of what this 'selfie' would look like where the prediction would have to be 'exactly' to YOUR liking. No such certainty can be achieved here and IF it could, the VSP program used by Y would be able to SHOW you the prediction. Not just the implants but HOW your face would look (from the FRONT).

That said, in the absence of the CERTAINTY you need to make a decision where this approximation and methodology used to do the morph does not kick up what's in your MINDS EYE as to what you might like to see INSTEAD, then you would need to RESOLVE the UNCERTAINTY as INDECISION and make a DECISION NOT TO decide to go through with the whole jaw augmentation and that also includes the CHIN that was designed with the REST of the JAW in mind.

If Dr. Y doesn't mind the indecision and FLOUNDERING on a decision, FINE. But if you need a morph where you want a different methodology used to show you what you might want to see on your face, then have HIM do it.

If you've already asked him to SHOW you a prediction of what the implants will look like ON YOUR FACE/photo (because that's what you need to see in order to decide) and he told you; 'Oh, that's just moving around pixels', that would mean what I told you which is that type of CERTAINTY can't be predicted.

All that said, enclosed is the original morph where I used the implants for jaw as basic guide and one with absolutely no consideration or reference to the implant diagram or request to look like Cavill. Instead only what MY eye would like to see.

[ben from UK]

That result is definitely a failure, the after is both more feminine and unnatural looking.

My main concern is that, while silicone implants can be removed, they can cause damage to both soft tissue (scarring, skin stretching/sagging) and bone (erosion) over time. You're already hyper sensitive to minor defects so I'm afraid any side effects will cause you more psychological torment if/when implants are removed.

In your case I really think fixing your eye plus some minor horizontal chin augmentation would give you the best result while minimizing risk. And honestly the eye takes precedence above all else. It's not severe by any means, but it would make the biggest difference.

The thing is that noticeable abnormalities have a much greater (negative) impact than whatever positive effects you can obtain by 'optimizing' other parts of your face, assuming things work out. You are already GOOD LOOKING with GREAT structure and balance. The asymmetrical 'lazy' eye issue is your biggest (and IMO your only substantive) problem, and that's what should be addressed above all else.

That's because his jaw and chin now look too small compared to the cheekbone. Facial harmony. The result of his cheeks implant are perfect imo, but his jaw and chin look too small compared to the cheekbone after the procedure. That's the problem with facial plastic surgery. Facial harmony is easily disrupted. Same with jawimplants. Someone takes jawimplants, lowering the jawangle, but how is it going to look compared to the chin? Too boxy because chin length stays the same? That happens alot of times. And then the client is dissatisfied and wants to take them out, or he does a revision. The revision rate is approximately 40-50 percent. It's an extremely difficult procedure to get it right.

[ODog]

Oh God bro I haven’t read through all the comments yet and I’m looking forward to it, but you need to understand that implants are specifically for people with underdeveloped facial bone structure, which you do not have in the slightest.

The people who get the best results from implants are those with weak facial bone structure but good soft tissue features.

The reverse is equally true... the people who benefit the most from doing things like getting jacked, cutting to low body fat levels, getting a good haircut maybe with a well maintained beard, getting a sense of style, working on your personality, getting healthier skin, and perhaps finally some surgery for soft tissue defects, e.g rhinoplasty, fillers, or even eyes  (this would be the MOST I’d do in your case), are those with well developed bone structure, which you have.

You are going about this the wrong way. I don’t see how facial implants are going to improve your chances with women. You need to do the things above ^.

[kavan]

@Kagan I was just trying to do some basic measurements a few minutes ago based on eyeballing the changes you made in the morph, and it looks like my jaw angles were each probably dropped by about an inch (or maybe a little less)? Would you say this is roughly correct? The reason I ask is because it looks like they were lowered by way more than 5 mm and 7 mm each, but I could be wrong. Just curious...

I just gave a very long (winded) post with diagram explanation of what I did in the morph. Also gave an illustration of what I, myself, would have done in total absence of any reference to any implant designs or consideration of Cavill.

In short, I looked at the angle DECREASE of the mandibular border as could be seen on the FRONT of the implant diagram. FRONT view. It was about an 8 degree angle decrease. This decrease was in reference to the fact that your CHIN, in the implant specs remained vertically 'long' for your already somewhat HIGH jaw angles. It (chin) stayed approx same vertical length.

So, using the vertical length of the chin as a CONSTANT in the morph where it was basically a constant in the FRONT view of the implant specs, I looked at the angle DECREASE of the mandibular border which could be viewed on the FRONT implant diagram. The angle DECREASE to the mandibular border is about the SAME on your morph.

My method was to give same/similar angle decrease at mandibular border on the morph (front) as I saw on the (front) implant diagram as to lower the 'slope' of your jaw line by similar angle the 'slope' was lowered in the implant design with FRONT used to look at that.

When your jaw angles are somewhat on the high side and look HIGHER due to the vertical length of the chin, keeping the vertical length of the chin results in having to do more of a drop to the mandibular border to 'blend' with the long chin which is why the morph looks 'boxy'.

My own preference--but that's just me with no consideration of Calvill-- would be to vertically SHORTEN the chin with goal of giving LESS of a drop to the back angles.

As to 'boxy' MM's have boxy jaws. But more of a 'square' box than 'rectangle' box.

You got 'rectangle' boxy due to long chin.

By the way, the morph the other person did where you liked the MODEST drop to the jaw line was in reference to your selfie PHONE CUTTING OFF the base of your long chin. (The one where he also took your good eye 'flipped it' and pasted it on to your bad eye.) So, of course, something where the chin is actually vertically shortened (because it's covered by your phone) will look better. I didn't cut off your chin in my morph approximations relative to the implants because it was NOT vertically shortened in your implant diagrams. I just gave you the same/similar angle decrease of the mandibular border that I saw on the implant diagrams when viewed from the front.

That's the methodology I used.

[Post bimax]

you go for the wrap around and then you're not satisfied and take it out, it can cause all kind of problems. Chin ptosis, disrupted masseters, scar tissue, etc. Especially if you're not in your 20s anymore. So be carefull with it. Also, a morph is almost never the same as the result after real surgery. Like I said, scar tissue will be built around a silicone implant, there is a part underneath the upper part of the masseter, it can make it look bloated. This is a good example of the difference between the morph and real result:

https://www.realself.com/question/long-swelling-completely-after-jaw-implants

You see the jaw angle is less angular than the before and his face is more boxy, although there is still some swelling.

His morph was ideal, but you probably can't get the morph through implants. Weather it's because of the design or material, maybe it was too big, I don't know. Maybe only with fillers, cause fillers target only the jawangle, while implants need to go higher than the jawangle to be able to fix them (but that part risks pushing the masseter outwards, making the face seem bloated).

As one of the docs pointed out, those were posted about a month post-op.

But still, oof.

That's a perfect example of a guy who had great features and may have f**ked up his face with implants.

[ben from UK]

As one of the docs pointed out, those were posted about a month post-op.

But still, oof.

That's a perfect example of a guy who had great features and may have f**ked up his face with implants.

Still, I can see why he wanted the morph. It's strange that surgeons don't seem to be able to deliver a subtle change like that. Is it a lack of aestethic eye? Implants too big? Wrong material?

But okay, 1 month is still early in the swelling process. Should wait appr. 6-8 weeks.

[SurgerySoon]

I'm sorry but this is getting incredibly tedious because it takes a LOT of TIME for me to
do this stuff. It's even more tedious to explain. I shall try.

When I did your morph, I viewed the implants (from the front) and noted that the base of chin was not dropped vertically. So, I kept that constant. I eyeballed the angle DECREASE to be approx 8-10 deg. decrease. So, on the morph, I eyeballed approx an 8-10 angle decrease.

Now the tedious part was CHECKING that for you via hand held protractor against screen.

I took your before photo and lined it up with the after morph. I measured the degrees from start which was about 45 and degrees from end (on morph) which was about 37 and I got a 8 degree DECREASE.

I then checked the implant diagram and reversed it so the side of the 'good eye' where there was less midface projection was on same side as morph with 'good eye'.

I measured the start angle which was about 34 deg. I measured the end angle which was about 26 deg. The DECREASE was 8 deg.

Low and behold, I find the angle decrease measured on the implant diagram is SAME as that on the morph. 8 degree angle decrease in mandibular border as seen from the FRONT.

That's the best angle approximation I can do with a 'selfie' photo when comparing it to the implant diagram. I look at approximate angle DECREASE from the FRONT and give the morph the same/similar angle decrease from the FRONT.

There are NO 'inches' here. There is NO way to predict 'exactly' what you would look like. But my approximation of about an 8-10 degree angle DECREASE where your morph has an 8 deg angle decrease is consistent with the angle decrease seen on the implant diagram.

That was the METHODOLOGY I used to do the morph APPROXIMATION.

You will NOTE that the VSP (program) used for the implant design isn't even one where it SHOWS YOU a prediction of your (soft tissue) FACE from the front. So, my approximation isn't bad.

Again, the angle DECREASE along the mandibular border as shown on the implant diagram is about 8 degrees. The morph (and mind you after I took extra time to MEASURE my 'eyeball' angle decrease) was ALSO an 8 degree angle decrease along the mandibular border you see from the FRONT.

That's pretty much the LIMIT of what I can do here for you when using a selfie.

I realize that other people can morph you as to provide something that looks good to their EYE and look better to you than this morph. That's fine BUT I'm NOT doing that. So the morph is not MY aesthetic preference for your face. I'm NOT designing your face. What I'm doing (here as to the jaw) is using a METHODOLOGY where I gave the morph the same/similar ANGLE DECREASE from the FRONT that I observed on the implant diagram.

That's the methodology I used. It is SUFFICIENT to illustrate SOMETHING in the VENUE of what MMs have and I've already TOLD you that requests based on wanting a PART that a MM has do NOT necessarily result in the WHOLE 'gestalt' of what the MM has.

What you need is CERTAINTY, an exact prediction of how the jaw implant will look on your face when YOU look in the mirror..or here an exact prediction of what this 'selfie' would look like where the prediction would have to be 'exactly' to YOUR liking. No such certainty can be achieved here and IF it could, the VSP program used by Y would be able to SHOW you the prediction. Not just the implants but HOW your face would look (from the FRONT).

That said, in the absence of the CERTAINTY you need to make a decision where this approximation and methodology used to do the morph does not kick up what's in your MINDS EYE as to what you might like to see INSTEAD, then you would need to RESOLVE the UNCERTAINTY as INDECISION and make a DECISION NOT TO decide to go through with the whole jaw augmentation and that also includes the CHIN that was designed with the REST of the JAW in mind.

If Dr. Y doesn't mind the indecision and FLOUNDERING on a decision, FINE. But if you need a morph where you want a different methodology used to show you what you might want to see on your face, then have HIM do it.

If you've already asked him to SHOW you a prediction of what the implants will look like ON YOUR FACE/photo (because that's what you need to see in order to decide) and he told you; 'Oh, that's just moving around pixels', that would mean what I told you which is that type of CERTAINTY can't be predicted.

All that said, enclosed is the original morph where I used the implants for jaw as basic guide and one with absolutely no consideration or reference to the implant diagram or request to look like Cavill. Instead only what MY eye would like to see.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this stuff to me. After reading your analysis and thinking more about it, I think I'm going to forego the jaw implant for now and just stick with the midface and chin implants (when I originally told him a few weeks ago that I didn't want the jaw implant, he said he would go back and redesign the chin on it's own-- which hasn't been sent to me yet). I'm assuming they've just forgotten to send me the standalone chin implant design since the surgery is scheduled for next week.

[kavan]

Thanks for taking the time to explain this stuff to me. After reading your analysis and thinking more about it, I think I'm going to forego the jaw implant for now and just stick with the midface and chin implants (when I originally told him a few weeks ago that I didn't want the jaw implant, he said he would go back and redesign the chin on it's own-- which hasn't been sent to me yet). I'm assuming they've just forgotten to send me the standalone chin implant design since the surgery is scheduled for next week.

Then you have not understood all correctly. A chin implant will not SHORTEN your chin in the vertical dimension. Chin + jaw should be done TOGETHER for the for the entire 'blend'. Just as dumb to do one (chin) and not part to go with it (rest of jaw) as it is to request to have what the MM has.

 Last try and then you are on your own:

Your jaw angles have GOOD angularity from front BUT they are HIGH and HIGHER than what MMs have. MMs have it that a horizont passing to 'cut' through the jaw angles is found below the lower lip. To be given 'close' to what the MM has, a line found below the lower lip would also have to 'cut' through the jaw angles and does so in the morph. Although I agree that doesn't look 'right' on you, that's one of the draw backs of requesting to have 'what the MM has'. Here you DON'T start with what the MM has. The chin casts too LONG. IF you did NOT request to have Cavill as a point of reference and INSTEAD just got your chin SHORTENED and your jaw angles dropped MODESTLY where a line 'cutting' through them was not as LOW as it's found on the MM, than THAT would have been working WITH what you already have; a long chin and high jaw angles.

Sorry, but I just think it's dumb to ask a doctor to give 'what a model has'. Recall, one of my PRIOR posts where I said asking to have a PART like a model has is like asking to look like a block head but without knowing that's what you're asking for. They can give you 'something' like what a MM has. But it's never the same 'GESTALT' of all the parts working TOGETHER like a MM has.

The smart thing to do is observe aesthetic improvement for YOU (here the jaw area) and seek correction and with NO reference to a specific MM. NONE.  Your aesthetic problem has NOTHING TO DO with 'not looking like a MM'. The aesthetic SOLUTION for YOU would be to have the chin shortened (and advanced for the profile view) and also to have the jaw angles 'dropped down MODESTLY but NOT as much as a MM.

You would look better IF you just let the surgeon address your PROBLEM areas and DROP the request to be close to Cavill. I'm sure Y could see your chin could be shortened (and advanced) and your jaw angles dropped modestly. But both should be done in SAME surgery for the total 'blend'.

[PloskoPlus]

I don't think there is some kind of MM face formula.  I have not followed the whole thread, so I am not sure what you showed Y, but doctors hate it when patients bring them photos of celebrities - "such people are never happy".  Morphs are OK, other peoples photos are not.

[Tezcatli]

IF you did NOT request to have Cavill as a point of reference and INSTEAD just got your chin SHORTENED and your jaw angles dropped MODESTLY where a line 'cutting' through them was not as LOW as it's found on the MM, than THAT would have been working WITH what you already have; a long chin and high jaw angles.

I think that's solid advice, a chin advancement and vertical reduction with a sliding genio could achieve that I guess. I wouldn't do much about the jaw angle, I think his jaw looks good as a whole.
I'd never put one of these wrap around implants, btw, but I'm against implants in general.

Another thing, I don't know anything about eyes but could orbital decompression help him? One of his eyes looks like it's going to jump out of the socket.

[Lazlo]

He's telling you your expectations are unrealistic and reasons for wanting PS are absurd in the first place.

f**k you have severe bdd.

[kavan]

I think that's solid advice, a chin advancement and vertical reduction with a sliding genio could achieve that I guess. I wouldn't do much about the jaw angle, I think his jaw looks good as a whole.
I'd never put one of these wrap around implants, btw, but I'm against implants in general.

Another thing, I don't know anything about eyes but could orbital decompression help him? One of his eyes looks like it's going to jump out of the socket.

It was offered to him by an 'eye guy' and he was told repeatedly that he had one 'bad eye' that was key culprit to his overall appearance. But he elected to mask it with the implants. Not to mention that targeting the very thing that threw of his appearance could not compete with pursuing his fantasy of looking like Superman.

[kavan]

f**k you have severe bdd.

Does that stand for Brain Dysmorphic Disorder? It should.

[Richards]

Can't see all the pics as some have been taken down. From what I can see, looks like an eye guy would be the person to see. Some sort of decompression, cantho is the way to go. Your ipd, palpebral fissure width and inner canthi look good from what I can so you have a good base to work from. Need a good photo to judge

[eastcoastian1]

I  know this is an old one but had to comment. I shake my head at some of these threads. I really hope you didn't get surgery.

As far as eyes, man, they are not even asymmetrical and you should NOT touch them. I have MAJOR orbital asymmetry where one eye is literally placed higher than the other and have thought long and hard to fix but the risks are just too great (blindness, double vision, need to do even more surgery on the eyelids). There is literally one guy who pitches cosmetic orbital decompression named Taban, who I've seen, and he has quite the number of pissed patients from specifically this procedure. I wish there was a low risk option to fix....