Author Topic: Esthetic-Treatment-Planning-for-Orthognathic-Surgery  (Read 5941 times)

kavan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4034
  • Karma: 426
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

Post bimax

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
  • Karma: 68
Re: Esthetic-Treatment-Planning-for-Orthognathic-Surgery
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2019, 06:30:47 AM »
Quote
The mandibular incisors are ideally placed from 61-68° to the
mandibular occlusal plane and the maxillary incisors at 54-60° to the maxillary occlusal plane.
Attempting orthodontic overjet correction and then
resorting to surgery without decompensating the
incisors produces extremely poor facial results

Quote
treating a skeletal mandibular retrusion
with maxillary first premolar extractions, headgear, and Class II elastics will cause the maxillary
incisors to upright and the mandibular incisors to
flare. If surgery is then performed with these dental compensations present, the nasal base may be
too prominent and the chin too recessive.

I think this is part of my issue.  My upper incisors appear upright and the mandibular incisors are flared out to meet them.  My nasal base protrudes and my lower jaw still looks somewhat recessed despite 10mm BSSO and small genio.

I didn't notice any change in my bite during pre-op orthodontics and at the time I didn't know the right questions to ask about what was actually being done.  All I knew was that my teeth were 'getting ready' for surgery.  There was no change in the size of my open bite or noticeable decompensation, at least from my uninformed perspective.

april

  • Private
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 437
  • Karma: 44
Re: Esthetic-Treatment-Planning-for-Orthognathic-Surgery
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2019, 07:19:31 AM »
Clockwise rotation probably made all that worse for you too.

Quote
The mandibular incisors are ideally placed from 61-68° to the
mandibular occlusal plane and the maxillary incisors at 54-60° to the maxillary occlusal plane.
Attempting orthodontic overjet correction and then
resorting to surgery without decompensating the
incisors produces extremely poor facial results

Quote
The best recommendation for buccal segment
control is to keep the teeth and roots in the alveo-
lar bone without dental expansion or labial crown
torque. Segmental maxillary surgery can manage
archform and arch-width issues without the risk of
dental relapse or periodontal decline associated
with orthodontic expansion of the maxillary pos-
terior segments. Excessive orthodontic buccal
crown torque, in particular, can lead to complica-
tions in orthognathic surgery

I haven't had surgery, but it's like a checklist of everything that's been done wrong with my pre-surgical ortho tbh. Gunson pointed all of this out too. I had a bunch of compensations (and still do have some). Ortho was 'correcting' tooth show and cants etc dentally. My overjet reduced from 9mm to 4mm at one stage. My mandibular incisor angles are still 75°, so I guess that means they are not in the bone correctly? I've also been dentally expanded, with the hanging cusps. It's a big ol' mess. I'm not sure how some orthodontists can get it so wrong
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 07:48:40 AM by april »

Lefortitude

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 536
  • Karma: 49
Re: Esthetic-Treatment-Planning-for-Orthognathic-Surgery
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2019, 07:55:14 AM »
I'm not sure how some orthodontists can get it so wrong

I've seen more incompetent orthodontists than I can count.  To the point I've been thinking about going to school in SoCal so i can have my surgical prep ortho there.

Post bimax

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 773
  • Karma: 68
Re: Esthetic-Treatment-Planning-for-Orthognathic-Surgery
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2019, 08:04:36 AM »
I've seen more incompetent orthodontists than I can count.  To the point I've been thinking about going to school in SoCal so i can have my surgical prep ortho there.

I don't understand how this is possible.  You have to go through SO MUCH SCHOOL to become an orthodontist.  How can you learn that much and still miss information that is so essential to aesthetics.

april

  • Private
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 437
  • Karma: 44
Re: Esthetic-Treatment-Planning-for-Orthognathic-Surgery
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2019, 07:56:15 PM »
I don't understand how this is possible.  You have to go through SO MUCH SCHOOL to become an orthodontist.  How can you learn that much and still miss information that is so essential to aesthetics.

I guess it's just like some surgeons out there. They go through a lot of schooling, become professors, and some still don't take into account overall aesthetics when planning surgeries.

It's like different paradigms.

InvisalignOnly

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 325
  • Karma: 18
Re: Esthetic-Treatment-Planning-for-Orthognathic-Surgery
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2019, 02:37:35 AM »
I think it's because most surgeons and orthodontists focus on making the bite perfect instead of making someone's face look better; in fact, both braces and jaw surgery were developed for that and not for making people better looking. I read a few studies where they asked the opinion of orthodontists and lay people on how people looked (for example, before and after jaw surgery or with different degrees of gum show) and often there was a statistically significant difference between the two groups; i.e. what most lay people thought looked good was different from what most orthodontists thought looked good.

Also, it's interesting that Invisalign was not invented by orthodontists but by a random guy with no medical background that happened to be an adult orthodontic patient. Orthodontists just can't see what's wrong with having your mouth full of metal for years and years. I am a middle aged woman and I have to regularly speak and present in front of people as part of my work, I have severe lip incompetence etc. so my teeth are always on show and the orthos I spoke to recently could not understand why I did not want to wear traditional metal braces for years - they gave the impression I was fussy and one literally said nobody would notice the braces :). I'm sure they're trying to help patients but they just have a different perspective, at least that's been my experience.