my chin points upward - can anything be done?

[lookism]

a little bit like this but even more extrem



it bothers me a lot and it also cause a deep mentolabial fold and pulls my lower lip "back" which make the lower lip appear thinner.

i probably have something called short faced syndrome (even though my teeth show when i smile)

i already figured out that in an ideal world i would get double jaw surgery + genioplasty to solve the problem but considering my bite is fine and im an adult male with family and responsibilties i think jaw surgery is not in the cards for me.

however what about genioplasty or chin wing? can you rotate the chin more downwards? and how would that affect the lower lip?

thanks in advance

[lilaboy]

Theres a possibility of getting a downward genio. Im getting it too. But the risk is that it makes the chin more pointy the more you advance it down

[lookism]

you mean more pronounced? thats bad i already have a very deep mentalobial fold...

[kavan]

a little bit like this but even more extrem



it bothers me a lot and it also cause a deep mentolabial fold and pulls my lower lip "back" which make the lower lip appear thinner.

i probably have something called short faced syndrome (even though my teeth show when i smile)

i already figured out that in an ideal world i would get double jaw surgery + genioplasty to solve the problem but considering my bite is fine and im an adult male with family and responsibilties i think jaw surgery is not in the cards for me.

however what about genioplasty or chin wing? can you rotate the chin more downwards? and how would that affect the lower lip?

thanks in advance

Although I don't advise based on someone ELSE'S photo, nor do I want to get into questions that ask me to predict outcomes or coach in accordance to any one person's specific needs, what I can do is provide general info as to what the RELATIONSHIPS are.

2 common types of genios advance 'forward' over a DIAGONAL meaning there will be 2 displacement vectors; horizontal and vertical.

1: Long and recessive chin.

 A 'sliding' genio advances diagonally 'forward' where the 2 displacement vectors are horizontally outward and vertically UPWARD. (Projects outward and shortens chin.) That type is good for someone with a long and backwards chin, in which case they probably have a chin 'groove' that is overly OBLIQUE. (Chin groove in that photo is overly acute.)

2: Short and recessive chin.

The other type of genio that advances diagonally, advances diagonally DOWNWARD where the 2 displacement vectors are horizontally outward and vertically DOWNWARD. (Projects outward and lengthens the chin.) That type is good for someone who already has a short (and recessive) chin who doesn't want to make it shorter via the above sliding genio or make the chin 'groove' they have more acute. So, a 'down and out' genio would tend toward making the chin groove LESS acute

Now, those are the RELATIONSHIPS and they both assume RECESSION of chin. But if there is hardly any  to no recession of the chin as it kind of looks like in that photo or if the person in the photo ONLY wanted the groove filled, some people who have that get FILLER into the groove.

Also, chin wing doctors do something called a 'Chin Shield' osteotomy' so that when they advance the chin, the chin groove doesn't get deeper when the chin gets advanced via the chin wing.



"Chin shield osteotomy--a new genioplasty technique avoiding a deep mento-labial fold in order to increase the labial competence"  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19640681/

[lookism]

Although I don't advise based on someone ELSE'S photo, nor do I want to get into questions that ask me to predict outcomes or coach in accordance to any one person's specific needs, what I can do is provide general info as to what the RELATIONSHIPS are.

2 common types of genios advance 'forward' over a DIAGONAL meaning there will be 2 displacement vectors; horizontal and vertical.

1: Long and recessive chin.

 A 'sliding' genio advances diagonally 'forward' where the 2 displacement vectors are horizontally outward and vertically UPWARD. (Projects outward and shortens chin.) That type is good for someone with a long and backwards chin, in which case they probably have a chin 'groove' that is overly OBLIQUE. (Chin groove in that photo is overly acute.)

2: Short and recessive chin.

The other type of genio that advances diagonally, advances diagonally DOWNWARD where the 2 displacement vectors are horizontally outward and vertically DOWNWARD. (Projects outward and lengthens the chin.) That type is good for someone who already has a short (and recessive) chin who doesn't want to make it shorter via the above sliding genio or make the chin 'groove' they have more acute. So, a 'down and out' genio would tend toward making the chin groove LESS acute

Now, those are the RELATIONSHIPS and they both assume RECESSION of chin. But if there is hardly any  to no recession of the chin as it kind of looks like in that photo or if the person in the photo ONLY wanted the groove filled, some people who have that get FILLER into the groove.

Also, chin wing doctors do something called a 'Chin Shield' osteotomy' so that when they advance the chin, the chin groove doesn't get deeper when the chin gets advanced via the chin wing.



"Chin shield osteotomy--a new genioplasty technique avoiding a deep mento-labial fold in order to increase the labial competence"  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19640681/

my aim would be

1. add vertical height
2. make the mentolabial fold smaller
3. possible improvement of the lower lip
4. make my chin appear less upswing (it literally looks my chin is growing upwards towards my lower lips)

my bite is fine, i dont have a hollywood smile but teeth are not totally hidden. i still classify for the short face syndrome however as i already stated jaw surgery isnt really in the cards for me right now due to responsibilities etc.

is it hopeless?

[kavan]

my aim would be

1. add vertical height
2. make the mentolabial fold smaller
3. possible improvement of the lower lip
4. make my chin appear less upswing (it literally looks my chin is growing upwards towards my lower lips)

my bite is fine, i dont have a hollywood smile but teeth are not totally hidden. i still classify for the short face syndrome however as i already stated jaw surgery isnt really in the cards for me right now due to responsibilities etc.

is it hopeless?

Does not seem hopeless. It seems like you would be a candidate for the chin wing where they would elongate (drop down) the border of the mandible (including the chin), advance forward and use the chin shield technique so the groove is made LESS.

Chin wing= no change in bite.  Chin wing with vertical 'drop down'/ elongation of border of mandible =  Harvest bone from the hip area to do it.

[lookism]

Does not seem hopeless. It seems like you would be a candidate for the chin wing where they would elongate (drop down) the border of the mandible (including the chin), advance forward and use the chin shield technique so the groove is made LESS.

Chin wing= no change in bite.  Chin wing with vertical 'drop down'/ elongation of border of mandible =  Harvest bone from the hip area to do it.

chin shield technique sounds very promising? any more info on that? i just could find one article behind a paywall. is it only possible with chin wing? the problem i see with chin wing in my case and correct me if im wrong

1. that it lowers the jaw angle vertically and since these are already low in my case this might wont be a good idea. i dont want my chin and jaw angle to be on the same vertical level (hyperbole)  like robert z‘dar



2. it widens the chin horizontally which in my case also might wont be a good idea

[kavan]

chin shield technique sounds very promising? any more info on that? i just could find one article behind a paywall. is it only possible with chin wing? the problem i see with chin wing in my case and correct me if im wrong

1. that it lowers the jaw angle vertically and since these are already low in my case this might wont be a good idea. i dont want my chin and jaw angle to be on the same vertical level (hyperbole)  like robert z‘dar



2. it widens the chin horizontally which in my case also might wont be a good idea

I've given sufficient info for you to look into things. I shall REPEAT link I gave prior: "Chin shield osteotomy--a new genioplasty technique avoiding a deep mento-labial fold in order to increase the labial competence"  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19640681/

I am DECLINING communication that references photo presentation of others.

If the only problem is your CHIN, then review prior info given about 'down and out' genio.

If you seek a DROP DOWN of the WHOLE border of the mandible, then that's done with the chin wing. If you don't want that, then no chin wing.

Enough info about the RELATIONSHIPS were given for you to 'digest' as to which surgery with what relationship is closest to what you seek.

[lookism]

I've given sufficient info for you to look into things. I shall REPEAT link I gave prior: "Chin shield osteotomy--a new genioplasty technique avoiding a deep mento-labial fold in order to increase the labial competence"  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19640681/

I am DECLINING communication that references photo presentation of others.

If the only problem is your CHIN, then review prior info given about 'down and out' genio.

If you seek a DROP DOWN of the WHOLE border of the mandible, then that's done with the chin wing. If you don't want that, then no chin wing.

Enough info about the RELATIONSHIPS were given for you to 'digest' as to which surgery with what relationship is closest to what you seek.

the lower pics are mine. and the article is unfortunately not accessable for me. however thank you for the advise. i will have a consultation with a surgeon soon. i will ask him about the chin shield technique. chin wing isnt for me thats more for people with a rather steep occlusal plane i think.

[kavan]

the lower pics are mine. and the article is unfortunately not accessable for me. however thank you for the advise. i will have a consultation with a surgeon soon. i will ask him about the chin shield technique. chin wing isnt for me thats more for people with a rather steep occlusal plane i think.

Here is the ABSTRACT of the article (I don't get the whole one either):

"Abstract
The authors report a genioplasty technique in which the advancement of an anterior mandibular segment is executed with a specific osteotomy form that helps to avoid a deep mentolabial fold and improves labial competence. The osteotomy presented achieves this by creating a 'chin shield' where the mandibular segment advanced is relatively high on the side of the buccal cortex and lower on the lingual side and where the osteotomy or down-fracture in between is in an oblique angle in the sagittal plane."

You probably don't need to even read the whole thing because the SALIENT point is the chin wing doctors do the chin shield technique. Triaca in Switzerland came up with it and taught to Brusco in Switzerland and Zarrinbal in Germany. So, those are the main chinwing doctors who I know of who use the technique. So, you would need to set up a consult with at least one of them, tell them what you DO want and what you DON'T want.

ETA: If no chin wing then 'down and out' genio. If no 'down and out' genio then people who want to address ONLY the chin groove often get that filled in with filler. Those are the options I know of. So, choose which one adapts more to what you want.

[Gadwins]

the lower pics are mine. and the article is unfortunately not accessable for me. however thank you for the advise. i will have a consultation with a surgeon soon. i will ask him about the chin shield technique. chin wing isnt for me thats more for people with a rather steep occlusal plane i think.

So like kavan said, it seems, that almost every surgeon, who can perform a chin wing, can also perform all the other stuff, what Triaca could, because they learned the techniques by Triaca himself. That is what I learned, when I asked around. So it is also worth to ask Andreishchev in Russia.

Also there seems to be some unknown surgeons who can also perform a chin wing. It is worth just to google it.

[lookism]

Here is the ABSTRACT of the article (I don't get the whole one either):

"Abstract
The authors report a genioplasty technique in which the advancement of an anterior mandibular segment is executed with a specific osteotomy form that helps to avoid a deep mentolabial fold and improves labial competence. The osteotomy presented achieves this by creating a 'chin shield' where the mandibular segment advanced is relatively high on the side of the buccal cortex and lower on the lingual side and where the osteotomy or down-fracture in between is in an oblique angle in the sagittal plane."

You probably don't need to even read the whole thing because the SALIENT point is the chin wing doctors do the chin shield technique. Triaca in Switzerland came up with it and taught to Brusco in Switzerland and Zarrinbal in Germany. So, those are the main chinwing doctors who I know of who use the technique. So, you would need to set up a consult with at least one of them, tell them what you DO want and what you DON'T want.

ETA: If no chin wing then 'down and out' genio. If no 'down and out' genio then people who want to address ONLY the chin groove often get that filled in with filler. Those are the options I know of. So, choose which one adapts more to what you want.

yes thank you very much. i got access to the whole thing now. in case sombody else interested i would post it here but thats probably against forum policies right?

[lookism]

So like kavan said, it seems, that almost every surgeon, who can perform a chin wing, can also perform all the other stuff, what Triaca could, because they learned the techniques by Triaca himself. That is what I learned, when I asked around. So it is also worth to ask Andreishchev in Russia.

Also there seems to be some unknown surgeons who can also perform a chin wing. It is worth just to google it.

i will have a consultation with a surgeon who already got mentioned here a few times. to be precise next week. after this i will know more. im also curious about possible changes of the lips if would go through with genioplasty and my aim to reduce the mentolabial fold. i wouldnt be suprised if that would have an impact on the lower lip

[kavan]

i will have a consultation with a surgeon who already got mentioned here a few times. to be precise next week. after this i will know more. im also curious about possible changes of the lips if would go through with genioplasty and my aim to reduce the mentolabial fold. i wouldnt be suprised if that would have an impact on the lower lip

The chin shield technique is also called the 'balcony' genio or 'visor' genio by doctors who use similar technique but may be different from the 3 I mentioned. So, you could Google those terms too. So, the technique can be used in advancement genio even if not a chin wing and it is used specifically to mitigate the groove between lower lip an chin.

[kavan]

yes thank you very much. i got access to the whole thing now. in case sombody else interested i would post it here but thats probably against forum policies right?

It could be against the author's or the publication's copyright policies to do so. But the protocol for copyright infringements would be for JSF to remove subsequent to a take down request. So, in the interim, we would have some time to read it if it were posted here.