Author Topic: Please help! Really need recommendation for surgeons specialized in CCW-rotation  (Read 5150 times)

Nicole13

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Hi there,

I´m desperately searching for a surgeon who specializes in CCW-rotation.

Does anyone have any recommendations of surgeons who are great at CCW-rotation and have a great aesthetic eye?
I´m open for surgeons worldwide.
Any recommendation is more than welcome.

Thanks a million in advance!

Luis_McLovin

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Mirco raffaini in Italy
Alfaro in Spain?
Zarrinbal in berlin

PloskoPlus

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I don't think Zarrinbal does it regularly. He rather simulates the effect with chin wings.  Most CCW surgeons seem to be in the states. Wolford, Sullivan would have the most experience of the currently active surgeons.  There are many others.

Gadwins

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Zarrinbal doesn't perform any CCW via downgraft. I remember a forum Memeber, who went to Z and wanted to have a CCW via downgraft. Z just tried to wiggle around.

kavan

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This question ALONE in the absence of a ceph, tells us nothing about whether the person asking about CCW actually needs it or even which type they are inquiring about; posterior downgraft or anterior impaction.

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Nicole13

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That´s right Kavan!
I´ve had previous jawsurgery in Belgium.
Attached you find a picture of my side profile before and after surgery.
They performed a bsso + lefort 1 + sliding genioplasty on me. The surgery was focussing on correcting the bite and not so much about aesthetics.
As the bite is correct now, I still don't really like the aesthetic outcome. I feel like the lower third of my face is too long and still a bit recessed.

That's why I'm now seeking a revision jawsurgery with CCW-rotation.


kavan

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That´s right Kavan!
I´ve had previous jawsurgery in Belgium.
Attached you find a picture of my side profile before and after surgery.
They performed a bsso + lefort 1 + sliding genioplasty on me. The surgery was focussing on correcting the bite and not so much about aesthetics.
As the bite is correct now, I still don't really like the aesthetic outcome. I feel like the lower third of my face is too long and still a bit recessed.

That's why I'm now seeking a revision jawsurgery with CCW-rotation.

Just to confirm, the photo against the greenish background is the before and the photo with the blue background and surrounded by black called 'screen shot' is the after. Yes? (When the photos are not labeled 'before' and 'after', I need to confirm.)
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GJ

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Yes, that's right.

I told her she looks very good, but if anything do a CCW (up/out) genio revision to refine things. I really don't see the need for a second surgery, and I think 99% of people would be very happy with that result.
Millimeters are miles on the face.

Post bimax

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The after photo looks good. As others have said, you could get a sliding genio to decrease chin height slightly if you wanted.  I'm really not sure you want to put yourself through a full revision, nor does it look to me like you need one.  Are you sure your occlusal plane even warrants CCW?

PloskoPlus

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Not sure a revision is worth it.

Nicole13

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Thank you all for your replies!

@Kavan: Yes, the photo against the greenish background is the before and the photo with the blue background and surrounded by black called 'screen shot' is the after.

I will definitely consider to do just genio revision instead.

I was just thinking that it will look weird to only slide the chin even more forward.
They already slided the chin 7 mm forward.
The surgeon told me that sliding just the chin more than 7mm forward, will give the jaw a weird hourglass-form in the front.

That´s why I was seeking a revision jawsurgery with CCW-rotation.

kavan

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Thank you all for your replies!

@Kavan: Yes, the photo against the greenish background is the before and the photo with the blue background and surrounded by black called 'screen shot' is the after.

I will definitely consider to do just genio revision instead.

I was just thinking that it will look weird to only slide the chin even more forward.
They already slided the chin 7 mm forward.
The surgeon told me that sliding just the chin more than 7mm forward, will give the jaw a weird hourglass-form in the front.

That´s why I was seeking a revision jawsurgery with CCW-rotation.

Your outcome is very good. I would not do full revision. All you need to do is a sliding up and out genio which give shorter and more projected chin and 'look' of more CCW.
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SMSOMS

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Genioplasties beyond 4mm have the tendency to look OK in profile and odd in the frontal view.  They also tend to deepen the labiomental fold at he expense of natural esthetics.  My philosophy is only do a genioplasty to alter the shape of the chin and to make the shape look more normal, not substitute it for putting the mandible in the correct position in the first place.  Many surgeons are uncomfortable with very large CCW rotations and add a genioplasty to get added projection, often doing chin procedures on chins that already have great natural shape. I would estimate that of the 150 DJS per year with 2/3 being Class II with some degree of CCW rotations, that I only do 20 genioplasties. Food for thought

kavan

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Genioplasties beyond 4mm have the tendency to look OK in profile and odd in the frontal view.  They also tend to deepen the labiomental fold at he expense of natural esthetics.  My philosophy is only do a genioplasty to alter the shape of the chin and to make the shape look more normal, not substitute it for putting the mandible in the correct position in the first place.  Many surgeons are uncomfortable with very large CCW rotations and add a genioplasty to get added projection, often doing chin procedures on chins that already have great natural shape. I would estimate that of the 150 DJS per year with 2/3 being Class II with some degree of CCW rotations, that I only do 20 genioplasties. Food for thought

What if the person has an obtuse labial mental fold (groove between lip and chin) as the OP has and does not risk an overly acute angle to the LMF with a modest outward and upward advancement yet would be RELIEVED with more projection there and also some shortening? Her complaint seems very consistent with what the sliding genio could do for her and of course, also spare her from revision surgery.

What if the chin has a good shape (is not asymmetrical in its own right) BUT could look better re positioned outward and upward. Are you saying that in your practice you would preclude a patient who wanted their chin moved outwards and upwards 'because' the shape of it was not inherently bad?

I get the general guideline about not using a genio to compensate for mandibular recession but not the admonition against using a genio to selectively address the chin when a chin area, in its own right could be improved with a targeted genio and also spare a person from total bimax revision.
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SMSOMS

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You are correct that genioplasty must be individualized to the needs of the patient. My point was inexperienced surgeons often over use advancement genio just to get the chin forward. The things you point out are often chin shape issues. Long, short, straight etc.