jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: Lazlo on June 28, 2013, 05:50:52 PM
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Since some of us are facing this problem, thought I'd start a thread for it. if anyone has any good tips or procedures let us know. I know the following: traditional gum graft surgery where they take tissue from the roof of your mouth and stitch it between your teeth is terrible because it comes out looking a different color than your native gum tissue. thus far they have some kind of "alloderm"(bovine tissue) they sometimes stitch there and I've heard of the possibility of this regenerating some tissue, but really, if you have dark triangles caused by recession or othodontincs it's not going to fill that space up.
this, I think is another area where science will have to invent some kind of regenerative thing. honestly, BICUSPID EXTRACTIONS are so INCREDIBLY detrimental to your oral health --and also, long term in braces, esp. as you get older...
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well a lot of people get gum recession, when there in their f**kING SIXTIES!!!! I know mine has been caused by extractions of bicuspids and wearing braces for 2.7 years as an adult. Most recent doc. I spoke to said your teeth should have been prepared in 12-16 months tops for surgery 2 years is the overall turnaround time....
ORTHODONTISTS ARE VERY CORRUPT
i've posted this already, just outlines how bad braces are for you: http://www.dentistrytoday.com/restorative/6800-qthe-mother-of-all-black-trianglesq-case (http://www.dentistrytoday.com/restorative/6800-qthe-mother-of-all-black-trianglesq-case)
of course AFTER my extractions are done I see this site where a guy asks if he needs extractions for crowding and like 30 different orthos warn him not to do so!!!
http://www.realself.com/question/fix-mild-crowding-without-extraction-bicuspids (http://www.realself.com/question/fix-mild-crowding-without-extraction-bicuspids)
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Lazio .. Have you ever looked into reopening the bicuspid spaces?
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Lazio .. Have you ever looked into reopening the bicuspid spaces?
would take another two years in braces so would just make everything much, much worse, and then this would also need artificial implants which aren't very good for you. that said, i will be getting palatal expansion.
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This should be my priority #1 for getting fixed i've been told by both a maxfac surgeon and my dentist. Dentist told me it's very likely that mouth breathing at night is heavily responsible for it as it dries out the anterior part of the mouth
I don't have the dark triangles.... yet.
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can we please keep this thread focussed on SOLUTIONS to gum recession....thanks.
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i'll tell you one thing: the whole "crowding argument" that crowding causes recession is a bunch of BS --why then did my recession only get much worse after teeth were extracted and crowding was solved.
here's the same technology from their site. strangely, the dark triangles actually got WORSE after treatment. this example also looks kind of suspect. i mean these look like really healthy teeth and gums save for the f**king recession on the corners. it almost looks like more of an injury. did nothing for dark triangles.
http://www.biohorizons.com/gumgrafting-alloderm.aspx (http://www.biohorizons.com/gumgrafting-alloderm.aspx)
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another product for gum grafting.
the options right now are alloderm (which is actually donated human tissue, that's right, from corpses) or tissue from your palate.
this is some other option:
http://www.geistlich.com/?dom=2&rub=19 (http://www.geistlich.com/?dom=2&rub=19)
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question: i know there's a such thing as an alkaline diet (basically high green veggies and such, low simple carbs, no sugar).
Any advice on keeping mouth acidity low? I've heard xylitol gum is really good:
http://www.drellie.com/Xylitol.php (http://www.drellie.com/Xylitol.php)
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Guys.......there is a mouth wash called thieves made by young living oils
It tastes pretty funky but I bet it would help. It is made up of essential oils and all natural.
Lots of natural healing properties.
If I had your problem I would definitely use it
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Guys.......there is a mouth wash called thieves made by young living oils
It tastes pretty funky but I bet it would help. It is made up of essential oils and all natural.
Lots of natural healing properties.
If I had your problem I would definitely use it
thanks for the advice on that Kristen!
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the actual name of the problem is a "blunting" of the "interdental papilla".
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Yeah he said it's impossible to be attractive if you have apnea (something along those lines)
he is the guy behind this result
(http://www.sailerclinic.com/media/content/jochbeinaufbau/1b.jpg)
I think he says it in the ante-face theory video
Beauty & Success with the Help of a Reverse Facelift (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K62MdksqAys#ws)
lol he's the perfect caricature of a mad scientist. looks the part too, like he's ready to carve up some faces like they were clay: http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/ueber_schoenheit.html (http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/ueber_schoenheit.html)
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lol he's the perfect caricature of a mad scientist. looks the part too, like he's ready to carve up some faces like they were clay: http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/ueber_schoenheit.html (http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/ueber_schoenheit.html)
yeah he is nuts, he reminds me of the mad scientist from The Human Centipede Part 1
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well you can have class I and still not be the ante-face that Sailer and those puahate guys are obsessed with. it has to do with the relation of your lower face to your upper, not the relation of your jaws
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I'm getting gum graft surgery in December.
anyone else done it or doing it?
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I'm getting gum graft surgery in December.
anyone else done it or doing it?
would love more info on this Euphoria. Could you maybe post a pic of your gumline places where grafting is happening. Do you just have deep pockets or gum missing between the teeth as well(interdental papilla). Fixing the latter is much more tricky, and most perio's say impossible. Also, have you ever had a deep scaling and planing procedure? Will the perio be using autologous (i.e. your own palate tissue for the graft) or some sort of synethetic/bovine/or other derived graft. I'm seeing a perio on Oct. 9th so I'll keep you up to date after my consult. Very interested in this procedure. thanks.
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Also, Euphoria, I'm a little curious about why you're experiencing gum recession at all. I mean I myself am somewhat young to be going through the problem, but you're ridiculously young to be expreriencing this. The truth is sometimes it's not actually bad hygiene but the nature of your saliva and the chemical imbalances in it, but I did read that because of the high processed food diets and high sugar many of us eat even younger children are now showing signs of gum recession. Do you follow a good oral hygiene protocal i.e. flossing, brushing (with proper technique), regular dental cleanings. I'm actually quite perplexed by this problem because many times even people who do follow such regimens have bad gum recession. There have even been studies of indigenous tribes who have little gum recession even though they don't have access to any modern dental tools. So what's your history and what do you think are the likely causes of this?
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would love more info on this Euphoria. Could you maybe post a pic of your gumline places where grafting is happening. Do you just have deep pockets or gum missing between the teeth as well(interdental papilla). Fixing the latter is much more tricky, and most perio's say impossible. Also, have you ever had a deep scaling and planing procedure? Will the perio be using autologous (i.e. your own palate tissue for the graft) or some sort of synethetic/bovine/or other derived graft. I'm seeing a perio on Oct. 9th so I'll keep you up to date after my consult. Very interested in this procedure. thanks.
Just deep pockets on my 4 lower incisors which is why I'm taking action NOW. He's going to be using autologous grafts, said it would take 2 days of full healing (laying around and doing nothing) and then 7-10 days of no hard exercise. He said the palate tissue will also grow back, do you know if that's true? Because they take 2 small slivers in a newer method, it apparently grows back easier I hope this is the case.
as for why I'm having it so young he said just genetics, my dentist said mouth breathing could be a contributor, and the dental assistant said poor hygiene so everyone has their own opinions. but my older brother brushes once a day and doesnt floss and as far as I know has no recession, so sometimes it's just s**t luck. My mom has it bad too so I'm gonna say genetics
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class I, wide palates, in and out of braces in a year. He probably didn't even need braces and would've grown into his crooked teeth but getting them on seems to be a customary for American teenagers
do you know how many mm your pockets are?
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it's not horrible, but on the two central incisors it's getting bad. I'm wondering if I should be getting it on the canines too since they're getting low but he made no mention of them...
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(http://i.imgur.com/bRIvoMI.jpg)
it's not horrible, but on the two central incisors it's getting bad. I'm wondering if I should be getting it on the canines too since they're getting low but he made no mention of them...
yeah it's not too bad, they should be able to fix that no problem. And you have good interdental papilla as well, which is great. Let us know how it goes.
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I've got ~2mm of recession on one lower incisor and 1mm on the other. I didn't get sweets as a kid, never had a filling, and have been on a low-carb no sugar pale diet for the past 6 years (before it was trendy!)
My gum recession is apparently caused by
a) high levels of calcium in my saliva, meaning I am prone to calcified plaque
b) wire retainer making it impossible to properly clean and floss lower teeth (I've had it removed)
c) teeth being pushed to far forwards towards the edge of the gum and bone via orthodontics to correct class 2
I saw one ortho who told me to consider a graft and see a perio. The perio said it I was getting braces to move the teeth back to where they should be, I didn't need a graft as the gum would close back around the teeth. I had an aggressive scaling and cleaning and it's much better
Black triangles are very hard to fix. I think you have to build up the teeth to fill them up
Euphoria that doesn't look too bad, 2 or 3mm at the most. Did you have a class2 corrected by moving forward the lower teeth?
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I've got ~2mm of recession on one lower incisor and 1mm on the other. I didn't get sweets as a kid, never had a filling, and have been on a low-carb no sugar pale diet for the past 6 years (before it was trendy!)
My gum recession is apparently caused by
a) high levels of calcium in my saliva, meaning I am prone to calcified plaque
b) wire retainer making it impossible to properly clean and floss lower teeth (I've had it removed)
c) teeth being pushed to far forwards towards the edge of the gum and bone via orthodontics to correct class 2
I saw one ortho who told me to consider a graft and see a perio. The perio said it I was getting braces to move the teeth back to where they should be, I didn't need a graft as the gum would close back around the teeth. I had an aggressive scaling and cleaning and it's much better
Black triangles are very hard to fix. I think you have to build up the teeth to fill them up
Euphoria that doesn't look too bad, 2 or 3mm at the most. Did you have a class2 corrected by moving forward the lower teeth?
CCG how did you find out that your saliva has high levels of calcium? Is there a test for this?
here's a doc who claims to do interdental papilla reconstruction. don't know if it's bs, i called his office and receptionist said "we try our best," also cost was 2 grand per papilla!!!
Papilla Reconstruction Animation By Peter Nordland D.M.D, M.S. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WoIfz6yGrs#)
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I've got ~2mm of recession on one lower incisor and 1mm on the other. I didn't get sweets as a kid, never had a filling, and have been on a low-carb no sugar pale diet for the past 6 years (before it was trendy!)
My gum recession is apparently caused by
a) high levels of calcium in my saliva, meaning I am prone to calcified plaque
b) wire retainer making it impossible to properly clean and floss lower teeth (I've had it removed)
c) teeth being pushed to far forwards towards the edge of the gum and bone via orthodontics to correct class 2
I saw one ortho who told me to consider a graft and see a perio. The perio said it I was getting braces to move the teeth back to where they should be, I didn't need a graft as the gum would close back around the teeth. I had an aggressive scaling and cleaning and it's much better
Black triangles are very hard to fix. I think you have to build up the teeth to fill them up
Euphoria that doesn't look too bad, 2 or 3mm at the most. Did you have a class2 corrected by moving forward the lower teeth?
Nope always been a class iii. the ortho restricted the forward growth of my lower jaw instead, now I'm left wondering if he did more harm than good
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you mofos better start drinking your green tea!
http://www.besthealthmag.ca/get-healthy/oral-health/5-ways-green-tea-is-good-for-your-oral-health (http://www.besthealthmag.ca/get-healthy/oral-health/5-ways-green-tea-is-good-for-your-oral-health)
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CCG how did you find out that your saliva has high levels of calcium? Is there a test for this?
It's just what a dentist told me based on the fact that I form calcified plaque easily and I've ever had a filling despite some of my teeth having poor enamel (the teeth are in a constant state of mineralisation and demineralisation). Maybe it's total bollocks!
It also depends on your particular microflora
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This may not help people who already have it, but since braces contribute to gum recession I will share a few tips.
1. Flossing day and night
2. Using a soft bristle baby toothbrush to brush, and sweeping the gum downward over the teeth when cleaning the gums
3. I read a testimony on curezone that someone's dad cured himself of periodontal disease by rubbing Pepto-Bismol over his gums before bed.
4. Homemade bone broth soup restores cartilage, among many other things like digestion and skin clarity. [sidenote: I usually don't consume animal products, but I'm going to try this as part of the GAPS diet, so maybe someone else would like to be my guinea pig first? :P]
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Where do you get yours from? Are wing bones no good?
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Emish.... Is your instructions for the complete bone broth recipe somewhere on this forum?
So you don't have to peel off raw meat off the bone?
I don't think I could do that. Ever think of selling your soups?
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Just had the surgery, guess this is a good little taste of what's to come with jaw surgery lol
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I dunno, I don't like this hard sell CHAO seems to be doing. f**king hilarious that most of those perio guys taking the course have the worst teeth (saw one guy with all his papillae missing) and that Chao is drinking a friggin coke during one of his demonstrations.
I dunno, looks good on paper but and maybe it's just new. But I have my doubts. Also it clearly does nothing for black triangles, the worst possible thing in the world. Man those are ugly. I don't think they'll be able to fix that s**t till they can grow bioteeth (2020).
Just hold on till 2020 that's the year I have predicted a paradigm shift will occur in regenerative medicine and by the latest the year 3000.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjpY9LhIdqQ
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Are those teeth in the video above healthy? The root of the teeth looks REALLY dark on some of them. I can't tell the difference between a root that looks natural and one that is basically rotting.
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I'm 34 and have recession on two symmetric molars on my upper jaw. Surgeon thought that was strange. I couldn't help but notice that those teeth were both used as anchors when I had braces 20 years ago. They had a large metal ring around them. My teeth appear to be fine otherwise. Imaging shows no problems with the roots, despite not being treated for so long. Still, my dentist says I should get a graft just in case.
As for my other teeth, I've had 4-5mm pockets in a few the past 1-2 years but in my last visit they all decreased to 1-2mm. I didn't think that was possible but ok I'll take it.
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So did anyone here try that "Lunchtime Gum Lift" technique? I don't understand how they can keep the gum tissue in place once they lower it.
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Got sudden bad recession on my lower incisors. Teeth look really long from the front, but the papilla looks intact. However... when I look in the back (lingual side) there are spaces forming between my teeth, like the papilla is disappearing there. Teeth also look really long from the back as well.
Really bummed out. Any ways to fix this in 2017? :(
Especially the spaces between the teeth forming... which will soon turn to black triangles.
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Got sudden bad recession on my lower incisors. Teeth look really long from the front, but the papilla looks intact. However... when I look in the back (lingual side) there are spaces forming between my teeth, like the papilla is disappearing there. Teeth also look really long from the back as well.
Really bummed out. Any ways to fix this in 2017? :(
Especially the spaces between the teeth forming... which will soon turn to black triangles.
I just saw my dentist for a cleaning last week, and the word is there's not much progress with all this. Stem cell technology will be here one day, but the typical "maybe in our lifetime"...doesn't sound around the corner.
It's such a brilliant solution, and there is such demand for it, that it's hard to understand why doctors all foresee it taking so long and/or why research dollars aren't being poured into it.
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Got sudden bad recession on my lower incisors. Teeth look really long from the front, but the papilla looks intact. However... when I look in the back (lingual side) there are spaces forming between my teeth, like the papilla is disappearing there. Teeth also look really long from the back as well.
Really bummed out. Any ways to fix this in 2017? :(
Especially the spaces between the teeth forming... which will soon turn to black triangles.
I have the same on my bottom incisors and it happened all of a sudden more than 18 months after braces. My ortho never informed me about black triangles or gum recession as a possible side effect of braces.
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I have the same on my bottom incisors and it happened all of a sudden more than 18 months after braces. My ortho never informed me about black triangles or gum recession as a possible side effect of braces.
Same. Happened about in that same time period after braces as well.
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Same. Happened about in that same time period after braces as well.
Do you wear retainers at night?
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Yes, a bonded on the lower six, and an Essix on the top. I'm not sure how retainers affect things.
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Yes, a bonded on the lower six, and an Essix on the top. I'm not sure how retainers affect things.
They probably don't. Some say wearing anything at all causes allergies and irritation to the gums making them recede. Maybe it was the bruxism splint I wore as well. Maybe it's because I sleep with an open mouth now and it's dry in the morning (I don't think I ever slept with an open mouth before surgery).
Fwiw my dentist switched me to an Invisalign retainer - should keep the teeth aligned and prevent wear from grinding. He says he's worn a retainer every night since completing his orthodontics 20 years ago. He has pretty bad gum recession too. He says it runs in his family.
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I just saw my dentist for a cleaning last week, and the word is there's not much progress with all this. Stem cell technology will be here one day, but the typical "maybe in our lifetime"...doesn't sound around the corner.
It's such a brilliant solution, and there is such demand for it, that it's hard to understand why doctors all foresee it taking so long and/or why research dollars aren't being poured into it.
f**k this is depressing. I don't just need gum tissue. I need new teeth. f**k this there have got to be ways. If I could go back I'd never have gotten braces ever. That was a bad decision, but having bicuspids taken out is what killed things. The TRAUMA TO THE GUMS!!!!???? Why was I never warned about that those motherf**kers.
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though i don't believe there aren't solutions. it's a matter of bone and flesh. What there are surgeons who can do face transplants but they can't fix your f**king gums?????
Get the f**k out of here.
They can do minute bone grafts and do minute gum surgery and grafts as well. That's all. I wanna get all my tooth pulled and put in implants sometimes but i know that will be even more of a horror.
I listened to a lecture from 2005 where paul sharpe talks about bioteeth and growing new teeth someone says when will this be in clinics he says we'll be doing firrst human trials in 3 years which would be 2008. Well 10 years later they haven't done one human trial motherf**kers.
f**k
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so weird i have a tutor who is like 60 no recession on any of her teeth, and yes i asked if they were natural. and yet i have a black triangles now betweeen all of them.
anyway, if you look at the second newsitem after the fish stuff it sounds like this isn't THAT far off, but who nknows f**king fs**t
http://sackler.tufts.edu/Faculty-and-Research/Faculty-Research-Pages/Pamela-Yelick