jawsurgeryforums.com
Surgeon Information => Surgeon Reviews and Leads => Topic started by: Modigliani on July 03, 2013, 01:54:51 PM
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Found a few more MM before and afters from his newly published book.
The class III guy had an amazing result!
http://www.facialmakeover.info/frontend/files/userfiles/files/book2.pdf (http://www.facialmakeover.info/frontend/files/userfiles/files/book2.pdf)
http://www.facialmakeover.info/frontend/files/userfiles/files/book1.pdf (http://www.facialmakeover.info/frontend/files/userfiles/files/book1.pdf)
ETA: I ended up having bimax and genio with him, he destroyed my face due to a combination of: lack of planning, poor surgical plan, a procedure performed that I had not consented to and general piss poor surgical skills/or it was done by one of the students. Know that you will have no chance of legal recourse and that any formal complaints to the hospital just get forwarded to him.
If you are still considering using him I beg you to read this thread fully as well as digging around the entire forum, and others - he has many unhappy patients whom he has left with very real functional and aesthetic issues. Please do not let this butcher anywhere near you.
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so many patients left with an edge to edge bite....such a poor planning!
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The class III guy had an amazing result!
My theory (on why Class III) almost always look 10x better (both males and females) is because they rarely experience vertical growth which is what really distorts one's face
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My theory (on why Class III) almost always look 10x better (both males and females) is because they rarely experience vertical growth which is what really distorts one's face
agreed. role of growth continues to be understated by both surgeons and orthos. many orthos will tell you they have the ability to grow the jaw *lol* sufficiently to match the results of natural growth. many won't emphasize how limited jaw surgery and braces are in dealing with abnormal growth.
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agreed. role of growth continues to be understated by both surgeons and orthos. many orthos will tell you they have the ability to grow the jaw *lol* sufficiently to match the results of natural growth. many won't emphasize how limited jaw surgery and braces are in dealing with abnormal growth.
yeah I read something the other day and it was almost as if you had wrote the article LOL. it basically stated what you had said before: if the face develops vertically down the bones in the mid-face area compensate for it and slant downward as well (something along those lines)
most under-bites cases are ridiculously easy to correct: linear advancement of the upper jaw + linear set-back of the mandible. CCW is NOT required since vertical growth did not happen
@Modigliani: nice find btw :)
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many times they look worse as they look weak and recessed as in before they had character.
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Agreed... That class 3 guy looks awesome!
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nothing wrong with length at all but in the case of vertical growth it can seriously disturb how soft tissue is distributed on the face.
at this stage it doesnt matter but there are lots of young people now who can still be helped.
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Modigliani any more before/after from Prof MM?
isn't he retiring this year or something?
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My theory (on why Class III) almost always look 10x better (both males and females) is because they rarely experience vertical growth which is what really distorts one's face
How are we diagnosing vertical growth? The class III Mommaerts guy had 3mm anterior impaction and 6 mm posterior impaction, which would suggest vertical overgrowth of the maxilla right?
Off topic rant, but I'm getting sick of jaw surgery befores that pose like Down Syndrome patients. This isn't plastic surgery and we don't need or want these deceptive marketing tricks
(http://www.agaveclinic.com/img/Imageorthoupperintrusion.jpg)(http://www.agaveclinic.com/img/Upperjawsurgeryintrusion_after.jpg)
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How are we diagnosing vertical growth? The class III Mommaerts guy had 3mm anterior impaction and 6 mm posterior impaction, which would suggest vertical overgrowth of the maxilla right?
well from what I have observed and again my opinion is meaningless but there seem to be cases where only the upper is affected
ex:
(http://i.imgur.com/ScuY02N.jpg)
and others where the mid-face also grows vertically along with the upper jaw
(http://i.imgur.com/SRwdzgo.jpg)
^ or maybe that girl just has a naturally long upper lip and a really low mouth (vs her eyes)... who knows?
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well from what I have observed and again my opinion is meaningless but there seem to be cases where only the upper is affected
ex:
(http://i.imgur.com/ScuY02N.jpg)
and others where the mid-face also grows vertically along with the upper jaw
(http://i.imgur.com/SRwdzgo.jpg)
^ or maybe that girl just has a naturally long upper lip and a really low mouth (vs her eyes)... who knows?
hmm hard to tell cause one's smiling and one's relaxed but I get your point.
surgeons only care about LFS when it comes to the jaw and it's relation to the soft tissue, which is basically the barometer for normal growth, so gummy smile or lip incompetence would be the measurement of how much to correct. As far as the whole face growing wrong and throwing everything off, definitely possible I guess. I think everyone experiences vertical growth to some degree, generally the less the better which is why models faces are often so close to perfect forward growth (and so rare). it's only the extreme outliers that we notice and label as LFS
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it's only the extreme outliers that we notice and label as LFS
i think in some cases it is the opposite. i have seen a lot of b/a on surgeons site that describe patients as having long face syndrome and it isn't even close to the cases we see here, or the girl above. i think the label is misused, at least what is superficially considered to be lfs.
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Is this true LFS? She's a comedian in the UK.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2361878/Laugh-Miranda-Hart-release-fitness-DVD.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2361878/Laugh-Miranda-Hart-release-fitness-DVD.html)
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Modigliani any more before/after from Prof MM?
isn't he retiring this year or something?
I'll scout about for more.
Not retiring as far as I know.
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Is this true LFS? She's a comedian in the UK.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2361878/Laugh-Miranda-Hart-release-fitness-DVD.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2361878/Laugh-Miranda-Hart-release-fitness-DVD.html)
definitely an elongated midface and gummy smile suggests maybe a variant of lfs but it's hard to say. certainly people with long midfaces and gummy smiles don't necessarily have a deformity. some people are just like that.
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Interesting. I always just assumed that LFS was the collection of (unfortunate) physical characteristics you listed above. The very fact they deviate from the norm is a deformity, no?
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Interesting. I always just assumed that LFS was the collection of (unfortunate) physical characteristics you listed above. The very fact they deviate from the norm is a deformity, no?
well not necessarily. there are only a few genetic conditions that manifest lfs, namely enlarged adenoids or adenoid facies. also FAS can present superficial lfs conditions but not always.
some people just have a long midface (e.g richard gere, marko jaric).
as ive talked about a lot when it comes to growth influenced by the environment there is no real standard. people's faces will react differently because there are so many factors - cause of growth, duration, amount of applied force and direction and the person's own genetics. ive seen extreme cases and mild cases.
the real issue we should be asking is how orthos and dentists have gone so long without accepting the role of growth in their profession, such as allowing backwards treatments (headgear for example) in spite of overwhelming research that concluded beyond a doubt headgear undermines facial growth.
i dont know if headgear continues to be used. but extractions are still performed for trivial reasons (crowding LOL) and the novelty appliances orthos pick up at industry conferences that claim to grow the jaw etc...
when this is dealt with and the industry is reformed i guarantee you we will be seeing seeing far less people growing up to have long face syndrome and many other problems.
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True CK
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I remember somebody saying to me once on a forum that they were suspicious of Mommaerts reputation because there were so few before and afters floating around at the time. He was convinced it was marketing hype.
What do you guys think? Does Mommaerts deserve his rep?
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I had surgery with him recently and I'm not really sure what to think. What I can tell you right now is that his department is completely disorganized and he has his students (or whatever they are) doing most of the work for him. I've seen posts here wondering why his prices have gone up and it may just be because no one there has any clue as to what's going on so it's possible that the actual cost will be significantly higher (or lower as in my case). I was given six different cost estimates for the same surgery (the lowest was 5000 euro and the highest over 20k euro) and in the period of just one year I was contacted by no less than five different assistants of his that didn't seem to have access to any previous communication I've had with his department. My advice is to contact Mommaerts directly if there's anything important because his assistants often neglect to answer e-mails and Mommaerts himself will sometimes answer in just minutes.
The lack of organization is also a big problem when you have to do anything at the hospital because the hospital wants to bill you for every little thing even though you're only supposed to do a lump payment directly to Mommaerts' department (someone at the hospital just nodded and told me that his department was a bit special when I tried to explain things). I had trouble getting admitted to the hospital the night before the surgery because the hospital couldn't confirm that I had paid anything. The post-op consultation was supposed to be free (or covered by the cost of the surgery) but I ended up having to pay 175 euro for it because the hospital itself seemed out of touch with Mommaerts' department.
UPDATE: I recommend everyone to stay far away from Mommaerts. There have been numerous people on this forum who have had failed surgeries with him and his attitude about it just plain stinks.
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I had surgery with him recently and I'm not really sure what to think. What I can tell you right now is that his department is completely disorganized and he has his students (or whatever they are) doing most of the work for him. I've seen posts here wondering why his prices have gone up and it may just be because no one there has any clue as to what's going on so it's possible that the actual cost will be significantly higher (or lower as in my case). I was given six different cost estimates for the same surgery (the lowest was 5000 euro and the highest over 20k euro) and in the period of just one year I was contacted by no less than five different assistants of his that didn't seem to have access to any previous communication I've had with his department. My advice is to contact Mommaerts directly if there's anything important because his assistants often neglect to answer e-mails and Mommaerts himself will sometimes answer in just minutes.
The lack of organization is also a big problem when you have to do anything at the hospital because the hospital wants to bill you for every little thing even though you're only supposed to do a lump payment directly to Mommaerts' department (someone at the hospital just nodded and told me that his department was a bit special when I tried to explain things). I had trouble getting admitted to the hospital the night before the surgery because the hospital couldn't confirm that I had paid anything. The post-op consultation was supposed to be free (or covered by the cost of the surgery) but I ended up having to pay 175 euro for it because the hospital itself seemed out of touch with Mommaerts' department.
I don't think this is anything that should persuade you from having surgery with him if you have confidence in his ability as a surgeon but I am very worried about how he behaved himself when I started questioning the surgery result at the post-op consultation. Right now it's too early to tell if my surgery with him was a complete disaster but it's not looking good at the moment...
Thanks for your update.
What surgery did you have? Are you male or female?
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Thanks for your update.
What surgery did you have? Are you male or female?
Gregor Samsa you deserve major rewards for being so honest and sharing your experience. Great karma there saving people from a potentially unpleasant experience. These are the things you should look for for sure. In addition to great results and patient satisfaction you should ensure your doc is extremely focussed on YOU during consults and discussions and is really there to listen to and address your needs and moreover is committed to the long-term post-op timeline of your care.
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Gregor Samsa you deserve major rewards for being so honest and sharing your experience. Great karma there saving people from a potentially unpleasant experience. These are the things you should look for for sure. In addition to great results and patient satisfaction you should ensure your doc is extremely focussed on YOU during consults and discussions and is really there to listen to and address your needs and moreover is committed to the long-term post-op timeline of your care.
I agree. It takes balls to post your pics 10 days after a potentially unsuccessful operation. kudos to gregor for doing it.
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10 days is too early to judge the result. It takes easily 3 months for the soft tissue, muscles to adapt to the new skeletal structure.
That being said im 3 months post op (not with mommaerts) and im very disappointed about my result :D
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10 days is too early to judge the result. It takes easily 3 months for the soft tissue, muscles to adapt to the new skeletal structure.
Understood, but surely you can't expect more projection further down the road, that's what Gregor's complaint relates to.
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Ok sorry, i didnt see his pictures. I guess they are in the private forum?
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Ok sorry, i didnt see his pictures. I guess they are in the private forum?
yes, they are and his complaints are valid. why are you disappointed from your surgery? who was your surgeon ?
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Thus far I have read accounts from 7 male Mommaerts patients, 5 were unhappy with their outcome, this doesn't bode well...
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yes, they are and his complaints are valid. why are you disappointed from your surgery? who was your surgeon ?
I look underdone. Basically the same as before. It's laughable :o I will open a thread once i have new xrays and my records.
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The first thing my sister said when she met me after the surgery was "you don't look any different". So much for all the warnings that I wasn't going to be able to recognize myself afterward. ;D
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LOL i know that feeling. A friend asked me a few days ago when i will have my surgery ;D
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Only lower jaw advancement (something like 6mm). Probably should have insisted on a bimax to get more advancement. But they convincingly talked me out of it.
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How exactly would a bimax have allowed you to get more advancement? I thought it was the relationship between your lower and upper teeth that primarily sets the limit for how much your jaws can be moved.
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Well, one could advance both jaws or use ccw rotation which would increase the advancement of the lower jaw.
This thesis explains the different methods ( linear, cw, ccw):
www.regea.fi/pdf/JohanReyneke.pdf (http://www.regea.fi/pdf/JohanReyneke.pdf)
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Okay you could obviously advance both jaws at the same time but what if you have a situation like mine where the lower jaw can't be advanced more since it's already where it needs to be while the upper jaw needs significant advancement?
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I dont get what mean. Why cant the lower jaw be further advanced?
If in your case the upper jaw needs to be more advanced, so does the lower.
The lower jaw can/must be advanced till the lower incisors are behind the upper incisors i.e. the bite is closed.
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Advancing both of the jaws wouldn't do much good in my case since it's the relationship between the jaws that look all wrong. If you look at my lips when I smile etc then it looks like my upper jaw needs to be advanced much more but the problem is that my bite is actually pretty to close to what it should be so advancing only one jaw would lead to a problem with the bite.
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Unfortunately i dont have access to the private forum and cant see your pics :(
If your bite is properly aligned, ccw or cw rotation and linear advancement of the maxillomandibular complex (ie both jaws) is still possible.
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It's always the same. If the surgery doesnt go well or you are dissatisfied, you are left out in the rain >:(
And of course no other surgeon wants to touch you with a 10 feet pole after an unsuccessful surgery.
Either because the chances of success are low or because he knows you are a critical patient.
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Only lower jaw advancement (something like 6mm). Probably should have insisted on a bimax to get more advancement. But they convincingly talked me out of it.
This is my concern. They have me down for lower only and I know I will only be able to get a similar movement that way, and I feel that I need more
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If your upper jaw is fine as it is, wouldn't advancing it just to achieve more movement in the lower jaw cause unbalance in your face? I've seen many people complain about ending up with a particular "ape look" after having too much advancement.
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This is my concern. They have me down for lower only and I know I will only be able to get a similar movement that way, and I feel that I need more
Your xray looks very similar to mine. As a girl you might get away with a slightly recessed look but it would probably still suck.
Consult with other surgeons. I consulted with 2 and that wasnt enough :(
You can easily simulate the result of a lower jaw advancement for yourself. Just push your lower jaw forward with relaxed lips. This is 95% the result you will get.
The surgeons persuaded me that it would look better ie less recessed. But that did not happen. Dont get fooled like me.
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If your upper jaw is fine as it is, wouldn't advancing it just to achieve more movement in the lower jaw cause unbalance in your face? I've seen many people complain about ending up with a particular "ape look" after having too much advancement.
yes, they have to take this into account obviously. any good surgeon will determine if your maxilla is in an aesthetically pleasing position first, before drawing up a surgical plan. I am wondering if applejuice was on a NONEX plan and thats why he got such a small advancement. I can get twice the amount of linear mandibular advancement he had (12mm, maybe even 14mm) if I accept the extraction of 2 lower premolars to get full decompensation. this is without touching my upper jaw at all.
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No, i got f**ked by greedy and lazy surgeons with no drive to deliver a pleasing result ;)
I had no extractions. Obviously i dont need that much advancement to restore a normal bite. I probably would have needed a little bit of ccw or upper jaw advancement to get a decent result.
They used ape/dog face scare mongering to push me to lower jaw advancement.
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can you PM me the name of your surgeon?
the thing with just bsso is, that you have to choose between aesthetics and proper bite. if i choose the bsso plan proposed to me, i will have a class 1 jaw and a class 3 dental relationship. you probably ended up with a class 1 bite and (slightly less severe) class 2 jaw. if i want both class 1 jaws and bite, i have to get bimax with upper and lower premolar extractions. i am still not sure what to do.
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I wont tell the surgeon's name until he had the chance to explain the situation or offer a revision/refund. I think that's simple decency.
A little bit of ccw or advancement of both jaws doesnt chance the bite.
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There seem to be a number of people floating about at the moment who were either proposed or got pretty small BSSO movements. Sean89, weren't you quoted something mad like 3mm?
I think for a significant number of people, they can only get about a 6mm lower advancement after full decomp, when aesthetically they need more. The only option in this case is either to gte extractions or bimax with CCW. Given I've already had molar extractions I don't feel getting my premolars yanked is an option (lack of support, shrinking arch, gum damage etc etc). It might not be so disasterous for those who have never had extractions and don't have space for their 3rd molars.
Your xray looks very similar to mine. As a girl you might get away with a slightly recessed look but it would probably still suck.
Consult with other surgeons. I consulted with 2 and that wasnt enough :(
You can easily simulate the result of a lower jaw advancement for yourself. Just push your lower jaw forward with relaxed lips. This is 95% the result you will get.
The surgeons persuaded me that it would look better ie less recessed. But that did not happen. Dont get fooled like me.
If I do this, then to my eye, a 6mm bone advancement (so let's say 4mm of soft tissue) is not nearly enough. I can't get the additional movement from a genio as I've had about 3-4mm advancement from my chinplant already.
The question is, is why is MM proposing small BSSOs as opposed to bimaxes for private patients? He has good experience, and does CCW in some cases, so what are we missing here?? It's not like he has no experience in CCW
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I wont tell the surgeon's name until he had the chance to explain the situation or offer a revision/refund. I think that's simple decency.
I think you can forget about that. Allow me to quote Mommaerts:
Doctors are paid for their effort, not for the result.
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I think for a significant number of people, they can only get about a 6mm lower advancement after full decomp, when aesthetically they need more. The only option in this case is either to gte extractions or bimax with CCW.
What about the situation where you need upper jaw advancement but the teeth will only allow about 6 mm movement after full decompensation?
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There seem to be a number of people floating about at the moment who were either proposed or got pretty small BSSO movements. Sean89, weren't you quoted something mad like 3mm?
I think for a significant number of people, they can only get about a 6mm lower advancement after full decomp, when aesthetically they need more. The only option in this case is either to gte extractions or bimax with CCW. Given I've already had molar extractions I don't feel getting my premolars yanked is an option (lack of support, shrinking arch, gum damage etc etc). It might not be so disasterous for those who have never had extractions and don't have space for their 3rd molars.
If I do this, then to my eye, a 6mm bone advancement (so let's say 4mm of soft tissue) is not nearly enough. I can't get the additional movement from a genio as I've had about 3-4mm advancement from my chinplant already.
The question is, is why is MM proposing small BSSOs as opposed to bimaxes for private patients? He has good experience, and does CCW in some cases, so what are we missing here?? It's not like he has no experience in CCW
I think most surgeons do rather BSSO than CCW because it's easier and has less risk of relapse. I read studies showing the softtissue response of BSSO is at most 60% and often well below.
I get a perfect soft tissue profile when i push my jaw to a class 3 bite ;D
I think you can forget about that. Allow me to quote Mommaerts:
Thanks for your encouragement :D
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Wow, Gregor, what an unpleasant man he is.
What is your next step, are you going to pursue him or move on?
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Wow, Gregor, what an unpleasant man he is.
What is your next step, are you going to pursue him or move on?
I'm just going to move on. I'm seeing my orthodontist soon so I'll let her evaluate my current bite and see what can be done. The funny thing is that Mommaerts still maintains that I got an optimal surgery result but I don't think he has seen any x-rays since the surgery (I can't remember taking any). I can certainly see things from his point of view (he says further advancement would've ruined my bite) but it's a bit too late to raise these concerns after the surgery has already been done when I've made it clear all along that I was doing it for the aesthetical result. I don't look anything close to the morphs he gave me and that's a big problem in my opinion.
All I can say is that you would have to be crazy to consider Mommaerts if you're after a good aesthetical result. I thought he had a different mindset than most European surgeons who still only consider the functional aspect of the surgery but I guess I was wrong. Considering what he has written me it doesn't seem like he wants anyone of you as a patient anyway. ;D
My next step is finding a good surgeon that can evaluate the result. If I can't find anyone in Europe then I guess I'll have to see Arnett/Gunson but no matter how good they might be I find it hard to justify the cost of surgery with them.
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Well better pay too much and get the result you want than pay too little and get a s**tty result. That's how i see it now.
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The question is, is why is MM proposing small BSSOs as opposed to bimaxes for private patients? He has good experience, and does CCW in some cases, so what are we missing here?? It's not like he has no experience in CCW
MM's recommendation for me was bimax + lower premolar ex + submental lipo...
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What about the situation where you need upper jaw advancement but the teeth will only allow about 6 mm movement after full decompensation?
Dunno - I guess either extractions in the upper arch ( :-\)or maybe the the opposite of CCW on the upper jaw - that is to say, CW on the lower jaw to rotate the lower incisors out, allowing for upper advancement. Not sure that would work? Never seen/heard of that done
Or, bimax advancement and a genio to shorten. However then there might be potential for looking chimplike....
MM's recommendation for me was bimax + lower premolar ex + submental lipo...
Yes but isn't your upper jaw also recessed?
If I can't find anyone in Europe
Is there any surgeon in Europe that we think is solid, has decent before/afters and has good appreciation of bite and aesthetics?? And is not too conservative?
Stupidjaws surgeon was in Italy I believe, yes? I'm getting confused with names. And someone in either Germany, Belgium or Netherlands...think it was Belgium with a Flemish name??
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Albino Triaca might be a candidate.
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Yes but isn't your upper jaw also recessed?
This was said during my first consult without any ceph tracings. I will know for sure in 2 weeks, but obviously bimax gives surgeon and ortho the best option to put bone and teeth in a satisfying relationship.
I also second what was being said about Albino Triaca and his colleague, Dr. Brusco. Unfortunately, their prices are skighhigh due to the strong swiss franc :(
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That man has clearly lost the plot in the most frightening of ways.
Is it worth consulting with a solicitor I wonder?
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I just found this thread randomly while searching for opinions about another surgeon: http://lookyourbestuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=51297&p=500220 (http://lookyourbestuk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=51297&p=500220)
Who else could they be discussing but Mommaerts?
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without pictures it's hearsay. we only believe you because you posted real pictures and shared MM's predictions. it is clear in your case that the result of the surgery doesn't align with what was promised.
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Do not have surgery with Mommaerts!! I've never seen a surgeon be criticised as much as him. I met him, and from personal experience, I would urge everyone to choose their surgery with someone else.
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Avoid. Avoid. Avoid.
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I had fairly extensive surgery with Mommaerts a couple of weeks ago. I have found everything said about 5 minute pre-op and post op. consultations, staff being totally uncoordinated and not service minded to be completely true. I can already see that my results are nowhere nere what we discussed. I have not since my post-op been in contact with MM since i wanted to be patient, but will inform you when i have.
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What did you have done, deadfish?
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I wouldn't buy a used car from him, never mind have surgery with him.
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Send your complaints here:
http://www.uzbrussel.be/u/view/en/3263039-How+to+contact.html (http://www.uzbrussel.be/u/view/en/3263039-How+to+contact.html)
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I think the reason many people go to Mommaerts is because he is relatively cheap. But if price is the defining factor, then why not consult with Norman Van Der Dussen (who is priced around the same).
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Dear God, just saw pictures of a boy on another forum, who already has model tier bone structure, M proposed totally unnecessary bimax and malar osteotomy. The man is a monster.
If that person posts here too - please don't let him touch your beautiful face!
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Sad but true. Just thought it was quite telling that a supposed reputable surgeon would even suggest performing such unnecessary and invasive procedures on someone whose issues are clearly not physical.
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It's even more strange in the light that Mommarts himself has said that there's only a disadvantage for him in treating patients since he doesn't get paid per patient. I wish I was kidding but he literally said almost exactly that. If that's his attitude then I don't understand why he doesn't put more effort into giving the patients more realistic expectations along with avoiding cases where it's likely that the patient will be unhappy with the result. It sure would've saved me a lot of suffering if he had been honest with me from the start.
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Dear God, just saw pictures of a boy on another forum, who already has model tier bone structure, M proposed totally unnecessary bimax and malar osteotomy. The man is a monster.
If that person posts here too - please don't let him touch your beautiful face!
Post a link to this, so that we can judge for ourselves.
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On Miss J's forum if you're a member, I don't feel comfortable linking to someone's pics, sorry.
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hello
does anyone recommend Dr Mommaerts for Rhinoplasty and Jaw augmentation ?
also do you have his contact information ?
thx alot !
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If you would read the other replies in this thread then you would notice that many here don't recommend him for anything. I can PM you his personal e-mail address if you want to but I recommend staying away from him.
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If you would read the other replies in this thread then you would notice that many here don't recommend him for anything. I can PM you his personal e-mail address if you want to but I recommend staying away from him.
gregor thank you for your reply
can you tell why no one recommand him ? i though he was one of the best surgeon in europe, did i miss something ?
i have read on "the best european surgeons" thread that mommearts was one of the best in the world ?
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Dont be lazy and read the thread >:(
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I think the previous posts here speak for the themselves but I'll give you some bullet points:
- People don't like the surgery plan he presented when they consulted with him.
- He is very arrogant and has a god complex. A lot of people have complained about how he presents himself.
- It's hard to find anyone on the forums I frequent that is actually happy with their surgery with him. Virtually all the people who have posted here are unhappy with the result they got from their surgery with him. In a few cases this stems from him promising results that were unrealistic or him botching the surgery in a bad way (according to second opinions from other surgeons).
- The department at the hospital he works at is very disorganized and it can lead to a lot of confusion and practical annoyances.
I can't really say how good he is at rhinoplasty although I would caution against having it done with someone that does not truly specialize in it.
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Dont be lazy and read the thread >:(
calm down applejuice no need to be upset i'm just asking a question because i'm suprised that this doctor have bed rep
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I think the previous posts here speak for the themselves but I'll give you some bullet points:
- People don't like the surgery plan he presented when they consulted with him.
- He is very arrogant and has a god complex. A lot of people have complained about how he presents himself.
- It's hard to find anyone on the forums I frequent that is actually happy with their surgery with him. Virtually all the people who have posted here are unhappy with the result they got from their surgery with him. In a few cases this stems from him promising results that were unrealistic or him botching the surgery in a bad way (according to second opinions from other surgeons).
- The department at the hospital he works at is very disorganized and it can lead to a lot of confusion and practical annoyances.
I can't really say how good he is at rhinoplasty although I would caution against having it done with someone that does not truly specialize in it.
thank you so much Gregor, now i'm very sad because i thought he was the perfect surgeon for me since he can perform so many different surgeries,work not far from where i live, speak french etc...
now i don't know who to choose :(
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It's worth having a consultation with him so you can judge him for yourself. Make sure you request to see a lot of before/after pictures of the particular surgery you're interested in and pressure him to give you realistic expectations. It certainly can't hurt to have one more surgeon's opinion even if you don't choose him in the end.
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It's worth having a consultation with him so you can judge him for yourself. Make sure you request to see a lot of before/after pictures of the particular surgery you're interested in and pressure him to give you realistic expectations. It certainly can't hurt to have one more surgeon's opinion even if you don't choose him in the end.
yes i think this is what i'm going to do
gregor do you know a good surgeon that can do Jaw augmentation (i would like to have a squared jaw) and that can correct jaw asymmetry?
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Jaw surgery does not give a a square jaw, it just realigns your jaw to a better angle/position. So far, the only predictable option to get a square jaw is implants.
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(TL;DR: First my experience with Mommaerts a while ago and then some questions about possible future interactions or alternatives.)
This is so strange. A year ago, there were many raving reviews about Mommaerts all over the internet and he was regarded as somewhat of a miracle worker. It was then (late 2012) that I went for a consultation with him. I can say right off the bat that his department is completely disorganized and was annoying to work with. Like with everything, how I felt about that depends entirely on the context and has multiple sides as on the other hand a disorganized department may indicate that he is one of those people who focus entirely on the actual work with not much regard for organization (these can be the miracle workers).
When I went, I was on the one hand put off by the hospital setting (in contrast to many aesthetic surgeons' settings which are often more inspiring), but on the other hand it inspired confidence as it was a "real hospital". The rest of the consultation was pretty much by the book and as has been described a number of times (told M about my wishes and concerns, made a morph and then talked some more). Overall, I had a bad feeling about the whole thing. I don't really remember why, it was just intuition. I think it was mostly down to the university setting, because I know how medicine in university hospitals works (big chance you get some rookie working on your case with "guidance" from the prof, by the way I think he likes being addressed as professor, or at least I got that vibe from his staff). I also personally didn't get a great vibe from him, but that is totally subjective and not something I let into my decision making too much (after all I'm there for his cutting skills not his people skills. In fact people skills can be deceiving if you are not careful!).
As I felt unsure, I wanted to schedule another consult to go over things again. It took a while to even have them respond to my email and after that, it would take about half a year for the second consult to take place. My patience has limits, so I sent him a list of questions, which on second thought may have been a little forward but on the other hand were things I deserved to know. They contained questions about the approval rates of patients with regards to the surgeries I was considering and whether or not I would be operated on by anyone I hadn't explicitly signed off on. In response to this, he replied via mail he was unsure he could meet my expectations and had decided to drop my case. Upon pressing further (and insisting my expectations were realistic, which they mostly were), he replied within a few minutes that "a patient should have a certain confidence in his surgeon". He then decided to still do one aspect (sliding genioplasty) but not the rest (seemed flip-floppy to me). I replied that it was not a lack of confidence (and that I found it bothersome he thought so) but rather just caution on my part. I never received a reply about that.
I think this story corresponds well to everything people have been placing in this thread. But I also have to say I have never seen pictures of an actually bad result from MM. I have seen some mediocre ones, but for all of them the starting point was bad and I doubt much more could have been achieved realistically (without taking much more risk).
Fast-forward to present day, I had part of my surgeries with another surgeon. The results were not immediately 100% satisfactory but the surgeon understood my concerns and there will be anotehr surgery very soon. I'm not going to bother you with the story about how this situation came to be, but some deliberation and emotional rollercoastering went into it. Regardless I already look better, I just think it can look even better (and my surgeon agrees and doesn't charge much for the second round so I'm confident).
Anyhow, I've recently renewed my interest in Mommaerts because of his Zygoma Sandwhich Osteotomy. It seems like the perfect fit for me because I need some (very little 0.5-1.5mm) frontal projection, a little lateral projection (1-5mm it depends, maybe I Need more than I think) but especially I need the whole arch to move up my face vertically (i.e. the broadest point of my face needs to move up significantly). I asked them for a consult again (explaining I'd had my surgery and was considering one probably final item with MM) and they actually replied pretty quick and said I was welcome for another consultation.
Obviously I'm going to go, but I would also like to know if anyone knows any alternatives for zygoma work? It seems a specialized field that not many operate in.
P.s. I want to re-iterate that I have not once seen a "bad" result from MM and everybody who is crying wolf in this thread just seems silly. I don't think he is particularly courteous or customer-friendly and I wouldn't want to have worked with him for the things my other surgeon did (who is all those things), but for a single well-defined surgery I will still consider him. I also still think it is strange that 1-2 years ago everybody was raving about him, and suddenly everybody is very negative. That seems suspicious to me. Maybe people just had way too high expactations.
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There are people with bad results, trust me. You don't see them because people are reluctant to post their results or because they post them in the private forum section. I had surgery with Mommaerts and recently showed my after pictures to a different surgeon and he thought it was how I looked pre-surgery because it still looks like I have an underbite.
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There are people with bad results, trust me. You don't see them because people are reluctant to post their results or because they post them in the private forum section. I had surgery with Mommaerts and recently showed my after pictures to a different surgeon and he thought it was how I looked pre-surgery because it still looks like I have an underbite.
This is exactly my experience. After the surgery with Mommaerts in December last year I have had a few consults with top surgeons and they all thought initially I was pre-op judging by the way I look. This is how bad my outcome is. I had one of the best surgeons in the world calling my jaw "a mess".As far as my occlusion is concerned, instead of being out of braces shortly after the surgery, I have to endure another year of complex and expensive orthodnotic treatment.
Enough said, but if you have any questions do ask before you make the worst decision of your life.
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What a joke, this monster shouldn't be allowed to operate, never mind chair a committee. I've half a mind to turn up there and show off an example of the esteemed Prof Mommaert's butchery skills.
http://www.facialmakeover2014.com/Welcome.aspx (http://www.facialmakeover2014.com/Welcome.aspx)
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I'd say it's even worse that he's a professor and gets to teach other surgeons. I'm not sure what he has to teach other surgeons when he can't even manage to get the surgery plan right most of the time. So far I have not seen a single person on this forum that received a surgery plan from him that they were happy with.
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Bumping this for any prospective victims that might be lurking.
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I can sadly confirm all of the above regard MM and the so call European Face Centre.
More on this when i can.
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Hope you're doing ok, B :)
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OK
ON this forum there is one crucial rule. If you wanna be 100% reliable user with your specific postop story, then unfortunately You have to give us photo (covered eyes) of what and how it went wrong, that some of You say that MM botched your surgery VERY SEVERELY
All of You, have you seen the bad post surgery results from Mommaerts from users in the forum and are they so bad as they say? I haven't seen any results from the complaining patients here..so I'm asking you???
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Yes. Next Question.
Rico, I guessed you missed the recent post saying that one of the top US surgeons told the poster to stay away from MM as the results of his ZO is 'unpredictable'.
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If a surgeon like Gunson is telling ex-M patients that he botched their jaws, then that IMO is verification of bad results.
I have seen one set of M jaw surgery pics where the guy had a lower jaw advancement - it was barely noticeable, and he was pissed. A few months ago, I saw a post somewhere else about M giving some guy nerve damage in the chin.
Unless it's a case of "my crooked nostril ruined my life" aka a rhino board, proof of a bad jaw surgery isn't always helpful - the surgery can be messed up in other ways i.e. leave you in serious pain which can't be captured w/pics.
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His HA is inferior too - poorly mixed and badly applied. It's apparently causing the underlying bone to soften.
This isn't just a case of patients being picky - he's actually causing very real damage.
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His HA is inferior too - poorly mixed and badly applied. It's apparently causing the underlying bone to soften.
This isn't just a case of patients being picky - he's actually causing very real damage.
Wow, that's really shady.
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If the procedure is not right for you then you're never going to get a good result regardless of how skilled the surgeon is. If your infraorbital rims are recessed, which is likely if you have a midface deficiency, then a zygomatic osteotomy will not lead to a good result.
The simulation pictures they show you is complete bulls**t by the way. I thought mine looked great but they were not realistic at all. I strongly recommend that you stay away from Mommaerts but if you insist on proceeding then at least consult with another surgeon first so you know if the surgery plan even makes sense.
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Thank you for your reply, much appreciated :)
How can I tell if my infraorbital rims are recessed? And do you perhaps know of any other skilled surgeon in North-Western Europe (preferably Germany, Belgium, or The Netherlands) that carries out zygomatic osteotomies for cosmetic reasons?
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Thank you for your reply, much appreciated :)
How can I tell if my infraorbital rims are recessed? And do you perhaps know of any other skilled surgeon in North-Western Europe (preferably Germany, Belgium, or The Netherlands) that carries out zygomatic osteotomies for cosmetic reasons?
Zygomatic osteotomy will not fix infraorbital recession. It can widen the face and give more definition to your cheekbones. Zarrinbal is in Berlin. He does zygomatic osteotomies, ching wings and conventional jaw surgery.
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Thanks for the Zarrinbal suggestion, first time I hear his name.
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Yes, avoid Mommaerts. I am not going into detail but if anyone wants to PM me i can show you why I say to avoid him.
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Why Zarrinbal, but not for example Gunter Lauer ?
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Why Zarrinbal, but not for example Gunter Lauer ?
Do you have experience with him?
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Do you have experience with him?
BTW, did you have an overbite when you started orthodontic treatment? That is, were you truly class II? I know it's all water under the bridge, but if you didn't, you may have just done a chin wing osteotomy to strengthen the look of your lower jaw without braces, extractions.
I've been told that the Dutch vocabluary is almost 90% German. Maybe you could read the German jaw surgery forum. They have a lot of Zarrinbal discussions there, I heard. Ask notrain about it. I saw a Zarrinbal chin wing done on a class II patient from that forum - the woman looked freaking amazing afterwards.
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I originally did have an overbite, which was corrected at an earlier time with orthodontics by pulling my front teeth forward, which resulted in them being slanted forward, and my having a very deep and ugly (IMO) labiomental groove. This original overbite has now been recreated (on MM's advice, in preparation for the BSSO) by extracting the premolars, and pulling the front arch back.
What German jaw surgery forum are you referring to? I can read German pretty well, that's true.
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What German jaw surgery forum are you referring to? I can read German pretty well, that's true.
http://www.progenica.de/forum/
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http://www.progenica.de/forum/
Thanks for the link! I took a look around but couldn't find much recent information about dr. Z. The little information I could find was positive, though.