jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: Lazlo on March 18, 2017, 04:03:31 PM
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So I've noticed now having healed sufficiently the side of my mouth where the lip facial nerve is slightly damaged sags. If I relax my mouth it becomes VERY PRONOUNCED. Like I have Bell's Palsey which is also caused by an inflammation/damage to one side of the facial nerve. So it's very likely the same cause.
Apparently there are some surgeries/procedures for this such as electric stimulation. I'm wondering why those of us who have the same facial nerve problems aren't offered a similar treatment. It basically makes the point of cosmetic jaw surgery completely pointless if I'm now gonna look like a f**king facial trauma victim everytime I relax my face.
Here are some leads: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130611204432.htm
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are you sure you have damaged motor nerves ? not only sensory one ? as the facial nerve carries signals mostly to muscles in the face
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are you sure you have damaged motor nerves ? not only sensory one ? as the facial nerve carries signals mostly to muscles in the face
how the f**k would I know?
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simple
if you can move your lips, close your eyelid, smile, then your facial nerve is OK
facial nerve (common name) has motor and sensory fibers. When it's damaged both group of nerve fibbers are affected, hence if you feel numbness, but your facial muscles works, then only a pour sensory branch of trigeminal nerve is damaged
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simple
if you can move your lips, close your eyelid, smile, then your facial nerve is OK
facial nerve (common name) has motor and sensory fibers. When it's damaged both group of nerve fibbers are affected, hence if you feel numbness, but your facial muscles works, then only a pour sensory branch of trigeminal nerve is damaged
because I can't feel parts of the moving face movement is indeed impaired slightly. Also it's tough to do certain things like suck in my cheeks and stuff as it was before surgery.
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I'm not a doctor, but I doubt your lower lip's appearance has anything to do with nerve damage (which I agree sucks majorly). Genioplasty messes with the chin muscles. This could be the cause. Any asymmetry from the genioplasty, BSSO may also contribute.
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I'm not a doctor, but I doubt your lower lip's appearance has anything to do with nerve damage (which I agree sucks majorly). Genioplasty messes with the chin muscles. This could be the cause. Any asymmetry from the genioplasty, BSSO may also contribute.
yeah there's definitely a part of this problem that is attributable to the genioplasty. So f**k with the whole chin wing thing that's for sure. Plus I realize doctors will tell you what you want to hear. There was no way I'd get a squared of chin since my anatomy isn't that shape. Even though the surgeon said he'd "square off my chin"" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHLOLOLOLOL BULLs**t. It's still curved and pointy. Actually worse.
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so it looks like I have to finish my startup project
to be very rich 1 mln Eur per week
to repair my issue
and become Don Carleone of medicine.
Any surgeon who makes premeditated problems and even doesn't try to help he lose his finger ...accidently
;) you have to wait a few months
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yeah there's definitely a part of this problem that is attributable to the genioplasty. So f**k with the whole chin wing thing that's for sure. Plus I realize doctors will tell you what you want to hear. There was no way I'd get a squared of chin since my anatomy isn't that shape. Even though the surgeon said he'd "square off my chin"" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHLOLOLOLOL BULLs**t. It's still curved and pointy. Actually worse.
I seriously considered an LF3 with Sinn, but the more I hear about your case the more disappointed I am in him. If it's any consolation (and I know it's not), 90% of surgeons would have done the same surgery. I really thought better of him. Your case was not trivial - extractions, steep occlusal plane, no gummy smile. It clearly called for a CCW with a posterior down graft. And strictly IMO genioplasty should be avoided whenever possible because it messes with the muscles, the lower lip. Money is one thing, but wasting someone's time and health (the nerves are never the same) is quite another. It's not a goddamn hair cut.
Man, I feel so much for you. If I were rich, instead of getting a f**king Ferrari, I would pay for your revision.
I really feel for you
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so it looks like I have to finish my startup project
to be very rich 1 mln Eur per week
to repair my issue
and become Don Carleone of medicine.
Any surgeon who makes premeditated problems and even doesn't try to help then he lose his finger ...accidently
;) you have to wait a few months
Godspeed.
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right after I wrote that my laptop reseted itself....seriously ;)
God does not like competition ;)
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I do have facial nerve damage after bimax (motor nerve 7th) confirmed by neirologist.
My surgeon says he doesnt know how this happened and he is sure he didnt cut the nerve nor did he touch it. (Its eye and mouth branch but only mouth visible). They all say I ned to wait up to one year to see if function returns. EMG is simple test which can confirm motor nerve damage.
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he does not know how it happened. ha ha ha. those surgeons asnswers..
he just did too much manipulation - the nerve was stretched
if affected nerve is not cut you will get first improvement within 3 months.. if no, then the nerve has been severely damaged / cut
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Surgeons typical answer if something went wrong: "Each patient is different!" :-X
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Surgeons typical answer if something went wrong: "Each patient is different!" :-X
"I didn't touch your nerve" ;)
or like in my case.
The surgeon moved the zygomatic bone together with masseter muscle (it's connected to the jaw - important) too much
then he said "I didn't touch your jaw!" ;)
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he does not know how it happened. ha ha ha. those surgeons asnswers..
he just did too much manipulation - the nerve was stretched
if affected nerve is not cut you will get first improvement within 3 months.. if no, then the nerve has been severely damaged / cut
He also said i must have my left side somehow 'weaker' when told him I have new symptoms (tongue burning and lack of taste' and that with older patients (im 35) anything can happen.
What do you mean I should get improvement within 3 months? Im now month 4 and I dont see it improving ... my surgeon says it takes 6-12 months.. and of course 'every patient is different'
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FWIW my uncle had jaw surgery 20+ years ago and told me he had some numb spots on his chin that took upwards of 5 years to resolve. So I guess there's some hope.
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FWIW my uncle had jaw surgery 20+ years ago and told me he had some numb spots on his chin that took upwards of 5 years to resolve. So I guess there's some hope.
You give us HOPE
Wow 20+ years ago. Has he had any relapse? If not , you will give us further HOPE. ;)
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FWIW my uncle had jaw surgery 20+ years ago and told me he had some numb spots on his chin that took upwards of 5 years to resolve. So I guess there's some hope.
He probably just stopped noticing them.
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2 things are mixed here Im afraid. Different nerves are responsible for numbness and different for face movement. My dad took 3 years to regain feeling after hand operation. With facial nerve as far as I know - 6 months no improvement is very bad sign, 1 year is end of treatment/restoration (basically no chance for recovery)
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he does not know how it happened. ha ha ha. those surgeons asnswers..
he just did too much manipulation - the nerve was stretched
if affected nerve is not cut you will get first improvement within 3 months.. if no, then the nerve has been severely damaged / cut
Is there anything I can do/say to make him tell me what is going on?
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For those who may suffer from facial nerve damage (motor functions) Id like to report my 4 mo post op EMG shows improvement (nerve regenerating) still a long way to go but its hopeful. So I suggest doing EMG at 3-4 weeks post op and then repeating after min 3 months, if theres no improvement or responses are weaker - then odds are the nerve was cut or severed badly. My neurologist explained it could have been to much manipulation or long surgery with retractors pressing on a nerve. She mentioned surgeons dont really care to much whereas they should release them from time to time and let the blood flow. Facial nerve damage is no fun I tell you.. aside from facial muscle weakness which is extremely distressing, It affected my tongue (burning lack of taste etc) healing is extremely slow and seriously lowering life comfort. I know these cases are rare but they do happen. sth to keep in mind for those pre surgery.
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For those who may suffer from facial nerve damage (motor functions) Id like to report my 4 mo post op EMG shows improvement (nerve regenerating) still a long way to go but its hopeful. So I suggest doing EMG at 3-4 weeks post op and then repeating after min 3 months, if theres no improvement or responses are weaker - then odds are the nerve was cut or severed badly. My neurologist explained it could have been to much manipulation or long surgery with retractors pressing on a nerve. She mentioned surgeons dont really care to much whereas they should release them from time to time and let the blood flow. Facial nerve damage is no fun I tell you.. aside from facial muscle weakness which is extremely distressing, It affected my tongue (burning lack of taste etc) healing is extremely slow and seriously lowering life comfort. I know these cases are rare but they do happen. sth to keep in mind for those pre surgery.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I have permanent paraesthesia and I curse my surgeon every day, but what I have is nothing compared to what you have. Paresthesia is usually listed in the consent form - nothing can be done about that. But what you have is terrible. I don't think it's even in the consent form that you signed. It's sheer negligence and I think you have grounds to sue your surgeon.
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I'm so sorry this happened to you. I have permanent paraesthesia and I curse my surgeon every day, but what I have is nothing compared to what you have. Paresthesia is usually listed in the consent form - nothing can be done about that. But what you have is terrible. I don't think it's even in the consent form that you signed. It's sheer negligence and I think you have grounds to sue your surgeon.
You are correct. I remember asking my surgeon 'what is the worst thing that can happen' - he said severing/cutting the nerve / permanent numbness to chin and lips - I asked - will this compromise movements - he said 'NO'.
So I was not informed nor prepared for this nightmare.
I know I have grounds but my surgeon acts as if nithing happened and saying to be patient. He also refuses to acknowledge bad esthetic result saying its the matter of 'taste' .
I really dont feel emotionally strong to sue anyone at the moment although I must admit his attitude is starting to piss me off.
Ive been consulting online w some surgeons and I am scheduled for couple consults.
Thank you for your sympathy.
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I feel sorry for OP - after all the extensive research he ends with problems and possibly with a minor aesthethic improvement, despite the fact that he undergone a textbook procedure (bimax advancement) with one of the most respected surgeons.
Is this the last call for "f*ck jaw surgery, unless one is clearly deformed and young"? And good luck to all the guys who are willing to do lf3...
After my experience Id say - yes. Jaw surgery only w functional issues or if you are really deformed. I mean if you look good, if you have a good life - dont do it.
I was running a business had a great social life and wanted to improve my looks / fix what orthodoncy/extractions ruined. Even if the esthetic result was achieved - id still be regretting this surgery.
As a result i have sum numbness (it sounded ok b4 surgery but in reality it does lower life comfort significantly imo)
motor nerve damage (rare but happens) lack of taste (horrific), pain, difficulty eating and Now I cannot look into mirror. I dont work (now my speaking is significantly better but it was also compromised for quite some time) cause facial paralyse is really super stressful. My bite is now also far from perfect which wasnt the case pre op.
There are examples of great outcomes for sure but after I had unsuccesfull surgery and digged deeper , consulted my issues w many doctors - Im under the impression that complications and problems are far more common than my pre- surgery research would suggest.
This surgery is for sure the biggest regret of my life.
I probably will need revision so Ill be updating here. Cheers and thanks for support.
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I had some nerve damage after my chin lipo, I couldn't smile or laugh properly and one side of my mouth would freeze mid-sentence
It was greatly improved by 3 months and by 6 months was OK. Have you seen any improvement at all since the surgery?
Not much comfort, but in 10 years time regenerative medicine will be so much better wrt healing nerves.
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Not much comfort, but in 10 years time regenerative medicine will be so much better wrt healing nerves.
What makes you so confident? How can you know that?!
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What makes you so confident? How can you know that?!
Lols. It's called science. It's called progress. I'm so confident because I've seen the research. We're already far closer than we were 5 years ago, 5 years ago we were closer than 10 years ago.
14 years ago I was sitting in a research lab trying to grow olfactory ensheathing cells that had been transplanted into mouse brains. The fact that they put out processes was considered extremely exciting at the time, and the research is SO much further than this now. We know so much more about growing nerves.
I'm not saying it will be perfect and we'll be able to regrow nerves willy nilly. I'm just saying it will be much better
Science news also makes a nice reading break from political news
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So I've noticed now having healed sufficiently the side of my mouth where the lip facial nerve is slightly damaged sags. If I relax my mouth it becomes VERY PRONOUNCED. Like I have Bell's Palsey which is also caused by an inflammation/damage to one side of the facial nerve. So it's very likely the same cause.
Apparently there are some surgeries/procedures for this such as electric stimulation. I'm wondering why those of us who have the same facial nerve problems aren't offered a similar treatment. It basically makes the point of cosmetic jaw surgery completely pointless if I'm now gonna look like a f**king facial trauma victim everytime I relax my face.
Here are some leads: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130611204432.htm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Those are some good results on that Bells Palsy case.
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I had some nerve damage after my chin lipo, I couldn't smile or laugh properly and one side of my mouth would freeze mid-sentence
It was greatly improved by 3 months and by 6 months was OK. Have you seen any improvement at all since the surgery?
Not much comfort, but in 10 years time regenerative medicine will be so much better wrt healing nerves.
Damn sorry to hear that!! I had neck lipo and I had some pins & needles for a week or so which actually felt kinda cool when I shaved (yes Im a weirdo) and then full sensation returned. If you ask me, neck/chin lipo was really a piece of cake.