jawsurgeryforums.com
Before/After Photos => Overbites => Topic started by: Cobolt2 on December 19, 2013, 02:23:30 PM
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First time posting here but I have searched the internet for years about methods of making my face look better. I hate my profile, both my nose and my chin/jaw. My problem is that I cannot determine the reason I look like this.
One period I was sure that my chin was the problem.
One period I thought my chin was fine, it's my jaw that need to be lengthened.
Another period I thought that my nose and jaw problem shared the same reason (that both maxilla and mandible were retruded)
At this time I have almost decided to do a nosejob, but recently I heard about the method NCR (neuro cranial restructuring) where they insert a balloon inside your nose and pump it with air. Doing this with caution will rebalance this small bone and other bones will follow.
I have also read a lot about Functional orthodontics, which supposedly can move both your maxilla and mandible forward without surgery.
I'm confused and I don't know what to do. I have never been on a consultation.
I hate my nose (angle is to big + upturned nose which is not manly at all) I hate the shape of my head, I hate my posture (neck) I may have a kyphosis, I will have an X-ray taken soon. I hate my sloping forehead.
Basically, I don't have any of the facial shapes that are attractive.
I feel that I have to much soft tissue for my bones (in other words lack of bone). If I don't actively try to show my teeth when I smile then no teeth will be shown, my lips will cover them.
I have the opposite problem of those who can't close their lips over their teeth.
I also wonder if it's normal that my eyeball is farther out than my cheekbone. When I move a straight object to my face it hits my eyeball before it hits my cheekbone and it even starts to hurt a bit before it stops on my cheekbone.
I also don't know how to position my head. When I noticed that my chin looked weaker when I had my head down, I started to tilt my head up. Then I noticed that my nose had an awkward angle and looked worse
when I had my head up, I started to lower my head, making my chin look a lot weaker again. That is not the case with people who have normal mandibles, it doesn't look smaller just because they tilt their head down.
I have trouble talking, I slur a lot if I'm not actively trying to be articulate, I also get tired from talking a lot.
Plastic surgery (chin implant, genioplasty) is cheaper but does not fix the main problem.
Looking the way I do, the neck, the back of my head being a lot farther out then my neck, my sloping forehead and my nose that are rotated up makes it hard for me to diagnose what the proper way to fix my chin is.
Like I said I will probably do a nosejob first. The only reason why I hesitate about the nosejob is if the nose shape will change if I did jaw surgery later on.
You guys have trained eyes on this subject, I'm begging you to help me.
Attached files info
1. Picture of my relaxed state, horrible posture and weak face.
2. Good posture but weak chin with that groove in my chin.
3. Same as above.
4. In the left pic I have my normal bite and in the right I have moved my mandible forward with an underbite and moved my skin back with a smile to show you the contours.
5. Me blowing out showing how far out my lips go compared to the chin.
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Your lower jaw is somewhat recessed. Do you have an overbite/overjet? If so, how much? Have you had any orthodontics?
If you got jaw surgery you might be able to get away with just lower - a BSSO. Depending on many things. Do you have a deep bite ie. do your upper incisors cover most or all of the lower when you bite down? Your lips don't really look everted so I am guessing your bite isn't that deep
I think your nose looks great. People pay a lot of money to get a nose that looks a lot worse! If you walked around with that nose where I originally come from people would stop and ask you who your surgeon was
A genioplasty would not give you a good result IMO
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Actually, I can sort of see where CCG is coming from. Your nose only looks bad because your jaws are pretty far back.
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You're not gonna get a good looking girlfriend as it stands, but you are very much capable of getting a girlfriend. It depends how much money you have really. If you've not got the money to undergo cosmetic surgery, you should go for a chubbier girl with good features and good skin, and then take her to the gym all the time.
What the f*ck am I reading?!
Firstly, this is a jaw surgery forum not some pick up artist forum thingie. He didn't even mention getting a gf. Maybe he has one already? Maybe he doesn't want one? Who gets jaw surgery so they can 'get a girlfriend?'
Secondly, a guy does not have to look amazing or 'alpha' or whatever bollocks you guys call it to get a good-looking girlfriend. Seriously....
Thirdly a "chubbier girl and take her to the gym" OMFG I CAN'T EVEN kjs'fdgosth'kbrdhlkh;sdnfgaa :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :-\ :-\ :-\ >:( >:( >:(
Anyway OP, I don't think you should get a rhino, can't see any issue with your nose from the side. I also do not think a genio will give you the result you want - my bone structure is not so different to yours (deeper bite, but I'd say a similar level of recession) and I got an implant that gave me a similar result to a chin-wing genio. Still going through with jaw surgery - for bite and for gum healthy but for aesthetics as well.
The crucial thing, which you haven't mentioned, is your bite.
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Your lower jaw is somewhat recessed. Do you have an overbite/overjet? If so, how much? Have you had any orthodontics?
If you got jaw surgery you might be able to get away with just lower - a BSSO. Depending on many things. Do you have a deep bite ie. do your upper incisors cover most or all of the lower when you bite down? Your lips don't really look everted so I am guessing your bite isn't that deep
I have both ovebite and overjet. Overjet is prob around 3mm. Check pic nr 1 for overbite (excuse the unflattering pic)
Based on your description I guess I have a deep bite, I really don't know the difference between overbite and deep bite. Have I had any orthodontics. Well, I remember I had a retainer that I had in my palate for maybe 1 year when I was 9-10 years old. I have been to my dentist and told them that am VERY unhappy, I also went to an orthodontic and within 10 minutes it was done. I told her how bad I felt but she said that they wouldn't do anything about it for free.
My dentist recently sent a referral to a bite specialist but I don't know if I can afford that because I don't have a job.
I think your nose looks great. People pay a lot of money to get a nose that looks a lot worse! If you walked around with that nose where I originally come from people would stop and ask you who your surgeon was
A genioplasty would not give you a good result IMO
Look at pic 2 and 3 for a better look at my nose, It's completely f**ked up.
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dude you look fine. man, this board is starting to attract some f**ked up people.
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What the f*ck am I reading?!
Firstly, this is a jaw surgery forum not some pick up artist forum thingie. He didn't even mention getting a gf. Maybe he has one already? Maybe he doesn't want one? Who gets jaw surgery so they can 'get a girlfriend?'
Secondly, a guy does not have to look amazing or 'alpha' or whatever bollocks you guys call it to get a good-looking girlfriend. Seriously....
Thirdly a "chubbier girl and take her to the gym" OMFG I CAN'T EVEN kjs'fdgosth'kbrdhlkh;sdnfgaa :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :-\ :-\ :-\ >:( >:( >:(
Anyway OP, I don't think you should get a rhino, can't see any issue with your nose from the side. I also do not think a genio will give you the result you want - my bone structure is not so different to yours (deeper bite, but I'd say a similar level of recession) and I got an implant that gave me a similar result to a chin-wing genio. Still going through with jaw surgery - for bite and for gum healthy but for aesthetics as well.
The crucial thing, which you haven't mentioned, is your bite.
Who gets jaw surgery so they can 'get a girlfriend?
I don't think you can deny that a person goes through cosmetic surgery to look better to another person. Looking good isn't good for the sake of being good. It's to get more attention from another person. I could have worded it differently, but to be honest, I think you're in self-denial if you think that he (or I, or anyone else who gets jaw surgery for cosmetic reasons) isn't interested in attracting a girlfriend/boyfriend, or wants to look better for an existing partner. In that sense, I don't think a jaw surgery forum is in any way notionally different from any other pick-up/cosmetic forum (obviously the comparison stops for the people (possibly the majority on here) who have functional issues).
Maybe I could have been much more gentle with my advice, but if you come on here saying pretty much that 'I think I'm ugly', even when he's far from being ugly, then he obviously has high expectations as to who he wants to attract. And if you ever want to meet those expectations, you are going to want people to be honest with you. Maybe it's a gender thing, but I think a man would much rather get honest opinions off people than for people to say, 'oh, you look fine, all you need is a haircut'.
As for the 'chubbie' thing, it was partly a joke (in bad taste) but I still think it's theoretically sound advice if your only interest is the way another person looks (which a lot of people are, men especially), but I do apologise for that, because I can see how you might find it offensive.
For what it's worth, I do think looks are important (especially in establishing a relationship) but I'd much rather go out with an average looking, intelligent girl than a beautiful idiot. I think it's a person's personality that keeps a relationship going, but not many people have that view when they're in their twenties (as I assume the OP is), and so everyone ends up playing the same game.
Anyway, sorry if I've caused you offence but I honestly think that if I had the courage to post my pictures on here, I would want to be told exactly how I could improve my appearance.
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I don't have high expectations at all, all I want is that my chin is vertical with my lips and in the best of cases don't have that big groove in it. A smile wouldn't hurt either.
I brought up my neck and forehead too but I did that because they make my nose and chin problems even worse.
Btw, my horizontal part of my mandible is 4 inches. Is that as short as I think it is. I used a measuring tape and think it was pretty accurate. Either it's 4 inches or a little bit shorter.
Another question, if I do a nosejob (it's not as major as you think, look at pic nr 1 in attachments) is it possible that there could be problem if I decide to do jaw surgery later? Probably if the maxilla is touched right?
I just want to look like I would have looked if my bones grew like they should. I didn't drink breat milk when I was a baby and I didn't grow as I was supposed to in my preteens and I was super skinny with a bmi of like 17 most of my teenage years.
Pic nr 2, Look how close my ear is to my chin...
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I'd be careful with free orthodontic maxillofacial treatment in Sweden, if I were you. The remark I read some years ago "yes, health care is free, they won't let you die if you have something common, but it can be troublesome to get uncommon things treated" rings true.
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You would probably look slightly better with a good planned jaw surgery however not worth the risk becuase you don?t seem to have functional problems and you look like an average looking man.
I?m from Sweden as well. To be able to get jaw surgery paid the bite must be off quite a lot and have functional probelems. Ask your dentist next time you have an appointment about your bite and if you have bite issues ask if they could send you to a surgeon. However I don?t think they would approve surgery anyway and as I said, not worth the risks for you.
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Your overbite doesn't look bad. Looks normal to me. I think you just have a recessed jaw so maybe a genioplasty would do.
Don't do anything to your nose. I honestly I don't know what you are seeing. But none of us see what you are seeing. You have a nice nose. Your recessed jaw is giving you the illusion that your nose is ugly, but it's not.
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It would be so much easier if my bite was good but I don't think it is.
1. Teeth crowding, both up and down.
2. Deep bite (but not hurting my gum) Look at the first attached pic, where the arrow is pointing is where my upper incisors are. It's hard for me to actually believe it when I see it but that's where my upper incisors are. Isn't that crazy? Second Pic, see my lower lip cover a bit of the upper incisors.
3. Do I have a recessed maxilla? I don't know what the signs are but like I said earlier in the thread, is it normal that your eyeball sticks out farther (not much) than the bone under your eye?
My dentist asked me if I grind my teeth in my sleep, I said no. The thing is, I never have a 100% bite when I'm awake nor if I'm asleep, that is not my relaxed position. It always looses up a couple of mm whether I'm awake or sleep. This is obviously saying something, the lower jaw isn't supposed to be there.
Also. If I open my mouth as wide as I can and then close it really really slow, there is a "change o tracks" as I call it. It's not sudden but it's there. No noise or crack but the mandible must change tracks to close. Of course the same thing happens when I open the mouth. Is this normal?
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I think you look fine to be honest. I very much doubt that anyone who doesn't have a trained eye is going to notice anything wrong with your profile.
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Looks like a typical class 2 profile. An untrained eye cant pinpoint what's wrong but still wont consider this an attractive face.
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Looks like a typical class 2 profile. An untrained eye cant pinpoint what's wrong but still wont consider this an attractive face.
Harsh. I actually have a lot of the same problems as you menapilo, except that my face looks worse. It's hard when people make out that someone has severe facial discrepancies but I know that I'm worse than that. Maybe I'm the worst case in the world.
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Why is this harsh? Im just saying it how it is. It's not an ugly profile it's just not attractive. Most guys dont have attractive profiles.
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Why is this harsh? Im just saying it how it is. It's not an ugly profile it's just not attractive. Most guys dont have attractive profiles.
If you just want to bash people and be arrogant and rude then stay on PUAHate where you belong. This forum is not for time wasters like you.
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What do you want from me? I answered OP's question in a neutral manner. Im neither arrogant nor rude. Studies show that class 2 profiles are considerd less attractive.
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Many has mentioned that I look like a typical class 2 case, and I agree. However I have been looking up what class 2 means and it seems to be that if your mandibles first molar is behind (posterior) to the first molar in the maxilla, then you have a class 2 bite. My lower molar is anterior (closer to my lips) than my upper molar. So does that mean I don't have a class 2 bite? If so, why do i look the way i do?
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you have a class 1 bite with a class 2 skeleton. it's not uncommon, i have it too. orthodontists can align your bite properly, if the mandibular retrognathia isn't that severe.
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you have a class 1 bite with a class 2 skeleton. it's not uncommon, i have it too. orthodontists can align your bite properly, if the mandibular retrognathia isn't that severe.
Is this better or worse to have than a class 2 on both bite and skeleton? Can a orthodontist be more stubborn to avoid treatment just because my bite is good, even tho I have overjet, overbite, deep bite and an ugly profile.
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it's neither here nor there, really.
as a class 2 skeleton guy you already have natural compensation in your dentition, i.e. your teeth mask some of your skeletal discrepancy naturally.
an orthodontist usually increases this compensation with braces to make your bite fit properly.
if you want to get surgery, your teeth will have to be decompensated first. this means your dentition will properly reflect your skeletal pattern. fully decompensated, a class 2 person will have a severe overbite and look pretty retarded.
if you had orthodontics before, decompensation will maybe take a bit longer than if you hadn't. But no, an orthodontist will not refuse to treat you, just because your bite fits properly but you dislike your appearance.
however, in a country with socialized healthcare, you will likely have to pay for it yourself because public healthcare usually only pays for a proper bite, not a proper skeleton.
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wouldn't there still be aesthetically minded doctors / surgeons if there are enough people demanding jaw surgery to become more attractive? i don't see how nationalized healthcare will prohibit surgeons to offer surgery in exchange for cash. germany has nationalized healthcare with good surgeons (see kizarq's thread), they will operate on insurance if you meet certain criteria and privately (you pay for it yourself) if you just want to look better.
disclaimer: i am neither for nor against nationalized healthcare and i don't give a hoot about obama.
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What the f*ck am I reading?!
Firstly, this is a jaw surgery forum not some pick up artist forum thingie. He didn't even mention getting a gf. Maybe he has one already? Maybe he doesn't want one? Who gets jaw surgery so they can 'get a girlfriend?'
Secondly, a guy does not have to look amazing or 'alpha' or whatever bollocks you guys call it to get a good-looking girlfriend. Seriously....
Thirdly a "chubbier girl and take her to the gym" OMFG I CAN'T EVEN kjs'fdgosth'kbrdhlkh;sdnfgaa :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :-\ :-\ :-\ >:( >:( >:(
Anyway OP, I don't think you should get a rhino, can't see any issue with your nose from the side. I also do not think a genio will give you the result you want - my bone structure is not so different to yours (deeper bite, but I'd say a similar level of recession) and I got an implant that gave me a similar result to a chin-wing genio. Still going through with jaw surgery - for bite and for gum healthy but for aesthetics as well.
The crucial thing, which you haven't mentioned, is your bite.
This made me go.... :o People who are thinking like this should be shoved off this earth, nauseating.
To the original poster, you dont look bad, the pursuit of perfection is a tricky tightrope to walk, I mean this sincerely. Things can get better, but they can definitely get worse. Be careful.
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Guys take a look at my ramus. I'm convinced my jaw /chin can look good without lengthening. It's just too far back now. I'm trying to show you my ramus angle. People who has a normal jaw/chin has a ramus that goes straight down or forward. Mine goes backward. Look at the pics and compare (in the second pic I have an underbite)
The red line in the first pic is my estimation of the angle of the ramus.
Question: Can this be fixed in traditional orthodontics?
I've heard that functional orthodontics can fix this by widening the jaws and then use a splint in the lower jaw that brings the mandible forward.
As explained here: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120317171651AA2WFMl (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120317171651AA2WFMl)
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you are too old for any non surgical fix (which likely are bollocks anyway).
it's either surgery or live with your looks.
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Actually, I strongly disagree with the people on here who say you look "average". In complete honesty, I think you are very good looking and have handsome features. Id say if you have a small airway or severe joint issues go for the surgery, but imo surgery will not make you look dramatically more attractive because you already are attractive. And im not just saying that to boost your self confidence; I had jaw surgery a year ago and while im very happy with my result, I looked really bad before and imo you are still a better looking guy than me even post surgery. Just my 2 cents!
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I am constantly thinking about what treatment I need. I will get an appointment with an oral surgeon within 6 months and I hope I will sort some things out there.
Look at the picture a attached. I think I have a similar situation. Look at his ramus, instead of being vertical, it actually is leaning backwards, I think my ramus looks the same.
I also wonder if it's normal to see your mandibular condyles in your ear? Mine are visible in my ears and disappears when I shoot man jaw forward. But the point is they are visible at normal jaw positioning.
I envy this guys result, it looks great. He underwent bimaxillary counterclockwise advancement. What is the cost of the treatment and what kind of cutting is done to the bones?
In the replys in this thread some people said that I maybe could get away with just a bsso. Would a bsso have any affect on the airway?
http://www.arnettgunson.com/fab-treatment-planning (http://www.arnettgunson.com/fab-treatment-planning)
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that guy is way more recessed than you are.
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that guy is way more recessed than you are.
Do you know if its normal to see the condyles of the mandible in the ears?
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Went to an oral surgeon today. According to him.
I have a class 1 bite, I asked if I had a class 2 SKELETAL bite, he said no, class 1.
According to him I have a minor deep bite, my mandible is rotated upwards.
That's funny, my mandible has an upward rotation (opposite of long face syndrome) yet my ramus angle looks like someone with a downward rotation.
No reason to do surgery (obviously)
My only way is a chin implant.