jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => General Chat => Topic started by: stevek216 on July 24, 2012, 03:27:34 PM
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Obviously anecdotal, but there was a guy at my school who had basically no chin and he was extremely confident and respected for it. He was also very intelligent, though, so that could be where his confidence stemmed from.
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Obviously anecdotal, but there was a guy at my school who had basically no chin and he was extremely confident and respected for it. He was also very intelligent, though, so that could be where his confidence stemmed from.
This kinda describes me, although I would say I have a weak chin(or jaw its hard to tell) rather than no chin. I had people tell me I look like a politician/president, it was kinda laughable now that I think about it. I think a lot depends on how you look from the front. As long as you dont have that sucked in lower face look from the front, I think people notice profiles much less than we think they do.
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i know it has with me but not others..like big noses for example, i cannot rock a big nose. in fact it made me more shy and messed up my self esteem as a teenager in particular, being female and all but i have seen other girls totally own theirs with confidence.
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good i hate my profile with a passion
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What is an actual 3/4 view? Can you post an example? One thing I have noticed is that almost all angled shots like that that I have seen that look decent, are taken from a lower position than other photos.
Something like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/NGKr2.jpg)
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The thing is, when I think of somebody and what they look like, I dont think of them in 3/4 view. That view may show off flaws(oddly enough my jaw looks fine in that view, what stands out is my chin and nose), but I dont think people view others as in their 3/4 view.
Like when I think of somebody I know, I always picture them from the front.
Those of you who watch Scrubs should know what I mean. The actor Zach Braff has a pretty weak jaw and big nose. Throughout the show you do seem him in angles that should expose that, but I never noticed it until I saw a profile picture of him.
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Obviously anecdotal, but there was a guy at my school who had basically no chin and he was extremely confident and respected for it. He was also very intelligent, though, so that could be where his confidence stemmed from.
Also anecdotal, but we met a guy on a hike recently, and he was so incredibly charming and confident even though he had what I would consider profoundly underdeveloped jaws. It might have been his upbringing. Seemed to have a strong bond with his family. Also, it probably helped that he was from a small town in North Carolina and not SoCal :D.
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The thing is the only people who realize his jaw is deformed are usually other people with deformed jaws. Obviously that doesnt apply to severe cases. But I know that I had no clue about mild cases until I myself became concerned about my own situation.
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The thing is the only people who realize his jaw is deformed are usually other people with deformed jaws.
Good point. I definitely pay more attention now.
But I know that I had no clue about mild cases until I myself became concerned about my own situation.
I had a mild case that could have been addressed with braces alone, probably not entirely but well enough. Everybody is different but, had I been more aware on my own appearance, I could have avoided the mess I'm in now.
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That would be really cruel! Lol.
Yes, I would think so, too, but don't think anyone would do that, at least I hope not. If someone did, however, I suspect the guy could handle it. He had some pretty strong convictions about what was "acceptable" SoCal attire. He's a Marine and the guys in his unit have given him endless hell for the past ten years about his fashion choices, hairstyle, his heavy southern drawl, etc. He told us that he doesn't give a damn what they think. I mean, it's mighty courageous wearing baggy overalls around this town :D. The guy was a laugh riot.
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He's a marine? That totally explains the confidence. I'd lend more credence to the military background being the source of his attitude rather than his hometown. My brother went to West Point (only for a year, but the first year is the one with "BEAST", the boot camp), and they really do a number on you. It was intense, another guy I knew who went there made it halfway through the summer and came back with a host of mental issues. (Bragging time, my brother didn't quit, he had a blood disorder that they had to discharge him for. He made it through the tough part though lol). Anyhow, their words were that they take the soldiers and tear them down mentally before building them back up. And it turns out that wasn't a joke. They have like 5 suicide attempts a year, but if you make it you have quite the reason to be confident. I imagine the marines are even crazier.
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Yeah I remember when we dropped my brother off for beast. Not only was he terrified, we (the families) were given a tour after they took him and we walked by a drill sergeant just absolutely reaming this poor kid out. From the first day on it was just constant screaming and like 5 hours of sleep a night. I wouldn't be able to handle it, I know that. Plus the entire academy is made of gray stone. It's beautiful but oppressive. It was funny though, we dropped him off in the morning and that afternoon they let us watch them parade out, heads shaved, perfect posture, etc. Fast transformation!
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Yeah I remember when we dropped my brother off for beast. Not only was he terrified, we (the families) were given a tour after they took him and we walked by a drill sergeant just absolutely reaming this poor kid out. From the first day on it was just constant screaming and like 5 hours of sleep a night. I wouldn't be able to handle it, I know that. Plus the entire academy is made of gray stone. It's beautiful but oppressive. It was funny though, we dropped him off in the morning and that afternoon they let us watch them parade out, heads shaved, perfect posture, etc. Fast transformation!
One of my closest friend went to WP. He used to traverse those stone walls to keep his climbing skills up. Somehow, I suspect you could take it, no? You seem to have the right disposition.
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Well I like to flatter myself that I'm tough :P but what I will say is that I would never be brave enough to put myself through it, or get the ball rolling. Thanks Nef, I think that's worse! ;)
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People tend to see what you put out there, so if you want to put yourself out there as a beta because you feel a certain way about how you look, then people will only see a beta.
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People tend to see what you put out there,
This is quite true, but much of what we "put out there" is of, or related to, our appearance. That stimulus--clothing, height, weight, face--is used, at least in part, to formulate one's identity. When the above stimulus is considered normal, or at least less divergent, its effect is not necessarily very noticeable. However, when the deviation is more substantial, it can significantly alter others' interpretation of one's actions.
While I do not have any non-anecdotal evidence to provide, I would ask my fellow forumites to consider the men in the OP. Imagine, for a moment, that they were given identical managerial positions in a company, in which they were charged with exerting both formal and informal power. Which man would be more respected? Which man would be more resented? More to the point, would their specific, individual actions be interpreted noticeably differently?
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While I do not have any non-anecdotal evidence to provide, I would ask my fellow forumites to consider the men in the OP. Imagine, for a moment, that they were given identical managerial positions in a company, in which they were charged with exerting both formal and informal power. Which man would be more respected? Which man would be more resented? More to the point, would their specific, individual actions be interpreted noticeably differently?
What matters most in this case is what they say/do/deliver/expect, not how they look. I am a good example: I have the typical beta-male weak profile, but I am much more respected/feared at work in general because I have a reputation. I was on a project with another guy who not only was a pay grade higher (meaning he out-ranked me) but also looked like George Clooney's cousin. Guess who had the final say in matters? It was me, all the time. The VP of our department would occasionally defer to the other guy when he needed some moral support, but at the end of the day, I was in charge even though on paper the other guy was in charge. Btw, this was at my current role at a Fortune 20 company.
Starting out my career in Manhattan it wasn't always like this because I had no track record to speak of. I'm 40 now and I always pass for 28. When I was in my 20s I didn't look a day past 18 (and this is being generous). When I tried playing equals with the Wall St. jocks who were my peers, it was tough for the first six months, but then I started playing their jock game and they started thinking (on their own) that I was some kind of wonder-kid. In this case, looks did indeed have an impact on their perception of me but it was largely because they were trying to make the actions they saw fit with what they saw physically before them, and not the other way around.
Believe me there are so many things that make a person, looks are one of them, but in my view you need to simply be presentable, not look like a model in order to have some clout.
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What matters most in this case is what they say/do/deliver/expect, not how they look
I don't disagree with this at all. What I would argue, though, is that a divergent facial appearance can noticeably alter others' perception of one's self, and that this effect grows in proportion to the magnitude of the divergence.
Believe me there are so many things that make a person, looks are one of them, but in my view you need to simply be presentable, not look like a model in order to have some clout.
How might one define "presentable"?
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I don't disagree with this at all. What I would argue, though, is that a divergent facial appearance can noticeably alter others' perception of one's self, and that this effect grows in proportion to the magnitude of the divergence.
Dude, who cares what others think?
EDIT: To say that "a divergent facial appearance can noticeably alter others' perception of one's self" linguistically implies that other people's internal thought process of how they perceive you (of which you have no idea unless you know how to read minds) somehow alters how you view yourself. Maybe I'm nitpicking here, but often times people say things that clearly express how they think the world works independent of what they were actually trying to say. What I believe you were trying to say is that people perceive some sort of "inferiority" based on your physical appearance and they begin to treat you in a way that you do not either expect or like, and the more "inferior" you appear to other people then the degree to which you are treated poorly is increased...such unexpected negative treatment leads one to view oneself poorly. Again I would argue that the power to alter any perception or treatment by others rests in your actions and language. To quote an ancient rock song: prove yourself, you are the move you make.
EDIT 2: link to said ancient rock song - http://youtu.be/w9goxeGdxi8
How might one define "presentable"?
Dress appropriate for the location/occasion and appear well-groomed/neat. When it comes to talking, stick to positive conversation (except when you are competing - in which case stick to conversation that gives you the upper hand), and be selective about what you say. There is also something to be said about one's overall demeanor. There was a time in my life when I was very confident, and it showed, and people who knew me well would point it out. That alone did wonders for my love life, and this with a chopped off lower third of a face!
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Allow me to preface this post with a personal statement: I have never suffered from a lack of confidence or feelings of inferiority. I like who I am quite a lot, some might say a bit too much. I would never consider switching places in life with another, if it meant losing any part of my character or "self", if you will.
Dude, who cares what others think?
To be completely honest? You do. As does every one of the 59 members on this forum, and thousands on others. This is not an accusation of self-consciousness nor is it something to be avoided. To the contrary, it is something that the vast majority of healthy people do everyday. If we didn't care what others' thought to one extent or another, our society would certainly not be arranged the way it is.
To say that "a divergent facial appearance can noticeably alter others' perception of one's self" linguistically implies that other people's internal thought process of how they perceive you (of which you have no idea unless you know how to read minds) somehow alters how you view yourself.
I don't believe it significantly affects my self perception, nor do I believe that my statement implied that it does. Their altered perception of myself could certainly exist independent of my own self-conception, could it not?
What I believe you were trying to say is that people perceive some sort of "inferiority" based on your physical appearance and they begin to treat you in a way that you do not either expect or like, and the more "inferior" you appear to other people then the degree to which you are treated poorly is increased...such unexpected negative treatment leads one to view oneself poorly.
You seem convinced that my statement that "a divergent facial appearance can noticeably alter others' perception of one's self" is somehow rooted in self-loathing or disgust; I can assure you that it is not. I have no reason to lie you or any other forum members.
Dress appropriate for the location/occasion and appear well-groomed/neat. When it comes to talking, stick to positive conversation (except when you are competing - in which case stick to conversation that gives you the upper hand), and be selective about what you say. There is also something to be said about one's overall demeanor.
Do you do any of the above outside of work? If so, may I suggest that it is because you do care--however slightly-- about how others' perceive you?
That alone did wonders for my love life, and this with a chopped off lower third of a face!
I don't think I'm familiar with your current situation--if I have merely forgotten, I apologize. Perhaps you could provide some details?
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You guys have the right idea, but are taking it WAY too far imo.
Looks only matter to the extent that you guys are saying at the margins. People with a significant deformity like in the OP will have a hard time. People extraordinarily good looking will have an easier time. Everybody in between is more or less on equal footing.
That dude in the OP is an extreme case, he literally has no chin. Using him as an example is bad because he represents a very small amount of the population. The typical person, even with a developmental issue doesnt have that big of a deviation from what is considered normal.
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You guys have the right idea, but are taking it WAY too far imo.
Looks only matter to the extent that you guys are saying at the margins. People with a significant deformity like in the OP will have a hard time. People extraordinarily good looking will have an easier time. Everybody in between is more or less on equal footing.
That dude in the OP is an extreme case, he literally has no chin. Using him as an example is bad because he represents a very small amount of the population. The typical person, even with a developmental issue doesnt have that big of a deviation from what is considered normal.
I've been told by one oral surgeon that I'm an extreme case. That guy in the OP has way more of a jawline than I do. When I bite down, my chin juts out like it's a second Adam's apple, and there is no jawline there unless I force my lower jaw forward (like I have to in order to enunciate words properly). Even when I hold my jaw forward I have a pretty convex profile.
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You guys have the right idea, but are taking it WAY too far imo.
But are we?
That dude in the OP is an extreme case, he literally has no chin. Using him as an example is bad because he represents a very small amount of the population. The typical person, even with a developmental issue doesnt have that big of a deviation from what is considered normal.
Of the general population, yes. On this forum, perhaps less so. I would not be surprised if there are at least a couple other forumites who's cases are only moderately less severe.
While I can't speak for any other members, I would say that my own case approaches the first one in many respects.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/25qu69t.jpg)
A rather depressing -31mm at the pogonion from a vertical profile line. That's 3.1 cm or 1.3 inches, which is, on a facial scale, fairly significant. The maxillary retrusion makes the deviation a little less visually offensive on the ceph, but is itself an unfortunate deviation.
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But are we?
Of the general population, yes. On this forum, perhaps less so. I would not be surprised if there are at least a couple other forumites who's cases are only moderately less severe.
Uh yeah, I'm beginning to understand....I kind of thought I was the only one, but after looking at your ceph I'm beginning to realize that my case is not nearly as complicated as I thought it was.
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Maybe this should be spun off into the "sharptoys" thread because I'm finding your case to be astonishing. Seriously man I wish you the best of luck...I'm just floored at those movements! It's a good thing to be alive in today's day/age so that we can have these issues resolved.
Do you have any difficulty talking normally? If I don't hold my jaw forward I sound like Bugs Bunny after a bottle of Jack Daniels.
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Sharptoys. , How old are you and who is your surgeon? Your profile seems very similar to my loved ones.
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Sharptoys. , How old are you and who is your surgeon? Your profile seems very similar to my loved ones.
19. Surgeon is JP Stella out of Dallas/Fort Worth, Tx.
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Starting out my career in Manhattan it wasn't always like this because I had no track record to speak of. I'm 40 now and I always pass for 28. When I was in my 20s I didn't look a day past 18 (and this is being generous). When I tried playing equals with the Wall St. jocks who were my peers, it was tough for the first six months, but then I started playing their jock game and they started thinking (on their own) that I was some kind of wonder-kid. In this case, looks did indeed have an impact on their perception of me but it was largely because they were trying to make the actions they saw fit with what they saw physically before them, and not the other way around.
Believe me there are so many things that make a person, looks are one of them, but in my view you need to simply be presentable, not look like a model in order to have some clout.
Agree that sometimes a youthful appearance can have its drawbacks professionally. I've been guilty of negatively judging based on a my perception of a person's age. Sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm not. I tend to equate competence with age and with age comes wisdom, right? Not always, but there is some correlation there. A youthful appearance can make it more difficult to gain respect from peers, patients, etc. is what I'm trying to get at.
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Agree that sometimes a youthful appearance can have its drawbacks professionally. I've been guilty of negatively judging based on a my perception of a person's age. Sometimes I'm right and sometimes I'm not. I tend to equate competence with age and with age comes wisdom, right? Not always, but there is some correlation there. A youthful appearance can make it more difficult to gain respect from peers, patients, etc. is what I'm trying to get at.
People can look young for different reasons. Someone might look young because she has clear, taut skin and a healthy complexion. Another person might look young because he has a receding chin and a weak bone structure. The former case is usually good, and the latter is usually bad. That's why I hate when people say, "you'll be thankful you look young when you're older." This isn't true because I look young for all the wrong reasons. If anything, my recessed jaws will cause my face to age much faster.
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People can look young for different reasons. Someone might look young because she has clear, taut skin and a healthy complexion. Another person might look young because he has a receding chin and a weak bone structure. The former case is usually good, and the latter is usually bad. That's why I hate when people say, "you'll be thankful you look young when you're older." This isn't true because I look young for all the wrong reasons. If anything, my recessed jaws will cause my face to age much faster.
I was having breakfast with a (late) friend of mine about 4 years ago, and when I told him how old he was, his only response was, "I'm sorry, but you have such a baby face!" Grumpy guy, so he had no problem with me shoving the finger right in his face. :)
If I had a dollar for every time I heard, "You'll be grateful when you are older..." Now I wonder if I'm going to age overnight...
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People can look young for different reasons. Someone might look young because she has clear, taut skin and a healthy complexion. Another person might look young because he has a receding chin and a weak bone structure. The former case is usually good, and the latter is usually bad. That's why I hate when people say, "you'll be thankful you look young when you're older." This isn't true because I look young for all the wrong reasons. If anything, my recessed jaws will cause my face to age much faster.
I understand what you're getting at. A youthful appearance is attributed to many individual characteristics. One of my in-laws has insanely perfect skin for a 37 year old due to great genes, plus a fair amount of red wine, organic veggies and exercise. Most assume she's around twenty, until she opens her mouth, that is. Lol. My step sister has a strong bone structure, but as the years have marched on, those prominent features have given her a harsher, older appearance. There's is zero skin laxity/sagging, but those sharp angles make her appear more mature as she loses facial fat. She's 39. If she had a shorter chin and/or smaller jaw, she would appear far more youthful. Still has very refined skin, so structure plays a big part in her case. I don't know what appeals to the men folk here :). Perhaps a combo of good skin and reasonable bone structure(s)? Overly strong features can be aging, IMO, although many surgeons tend to think otherwise in terms of skin drape.
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That's an interesting point about strong bone structure . I'd rather look weak than on the harsh side :D
Also I don't know aging people irl with very strong bone structure so I just assume that they look better.
Skin is complicated. Like with eds its stretchier. Not simply a good or bad thing. I want to say its more prone to sagging but we don't get wrinkles as easily.
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Eff eff
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Yeah being skinny with fat cheeks is cool
I think being fat with fat cheeks is cheating
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Whether or not our looks determines our personalities seems to be up for further debate. However, it seems that scientists have determined that in males, looks affects fertility rates (in chickens that is)!!
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0907/09070902
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I swear they can get rid of turkey neck with lasers now
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Interesting, but I'm not 100% sure i agree. The thing that defines me the most physically is not my face, it is my bright red hair. People always assume things about me - like I have a terrible temper - that aren't at all true. So even though people think I have a 'fiery temper,' I don't. And I haven't developed a bad temper over time. I dunno, I just thing this whole conversation about looks and personality is a bit more complicated.
xo -
B
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Stress is a big factor in the aging process. Big sister went through a 2 year period of high stress. She aged about 10+ in that time (drawn, dark circles, deep worry lines, etc). She regained most of her youthfulness, however, when the stressor was removed. I think a good layer facial fat helped.
Agree about eye wrinkles/hollowing. Also think that plenty of sleep, fluids and exercise help reduce this, especially of those aging traits are relatively minor.
I had a lot of stress in college which I think exacerbated my hairloss. Unfortunately it didn't reverse for me LOL.
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I had a lot of stress in college which I think exacerbated my hairloss. Unfortunately it didn't reverse for me LOL.
ah that sucks. i would not look very presentable without hair. some people can rock the baldness (picard!) but others...not so much.
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i think i read baldness is a sign of high testosterone
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So....at work. I know two very pretty women and one that is not so pretty. The not so pretty girl has been at the company for 6 years and was senior to the other two. One pretty girl has been there for about 4 and the other has been there for about 1. Not so pretty girl is just as sharp and on top of things as the other two, yet the pretty girls have both leap frogged the not so pretty girl in terms of title (which probably translates into more money as well).
I f**king hate that company!
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So....at work. I know two very pretty women and one that is not so pretty. The not so pretty girl has been at the company for 6 years and was senior to the other two. One pretty girl has been there for about 4 and the other has been there for about 1. Not so pretty girl is just as sharp and on top of things as the other two, yet the pretty girls have both leap frogged the not so pretty girl in terms of title (which probably translates into more money as well).
I f**king hate that company!
That's interesting. I guess it depends on the type of work. Certainly, all things being equal attractive people have the advantage, you want to be around and be seen with attractive people, it's biological and evolutionary. That said, after the initial advantage the quality of one's work must count for something.
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So....at work. I know two very pretty women and one that is not so pretty. The not so pretty girl has been at the company for 6 years and was senior to the other two. One pretty girl has been there for about 4 and the other has been there for about 1. Not so pretty girl is just as sharp and on top of things as the other two, yet the pretty girls have both leap frogged the not so pretty girl in terms of title (which probably translates into more money as well).
I f**king hate that company!
I've always hesitated to attribute differing societal treatment to aesthetics whenever at least some plausible deniability existed, but sometimes the gloved hand or iron first correlates just a little to well with certain aesthetics, whatever they may be.
I f**king hate that company!
Obviously, it's not just your company, or anyone particular in it--although I'm sorry to say that I wish it were. Really, as Jack noted, it's not just the domain of the shallow and unsophisticated; rather, it is a component of human nature, evidenced by varying degrees.
I've found that a little generalized misanthropy at human nature, rather than any particular group or subgroup, is quite helpful.
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Agreed. But I was always like Steve Martin's dictum: "Be so good they can't ignore you." We're all born with certain propensities, and gifts or at least potential aptitudes. Make the most of what you have, and really, who every truly, truly does that? Even good looking people?
Actually, this topic does raise one interesting idea though, can we really change from being average looking to good looking? For example, I've noticed that people with serious, serious flaws suddenly look much better if they are deformed. But can an average
person go from a 6 to a 9?? There are certain things that I've heard cannot be changed --width or distance between the eyes, which is a big determinant on looks and also the compactness of the midface (distance between pupil and lips) --good looking people have very compact midfaces. I'm not sure orthagnathic surgery affects this at all.
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Actually, this topic does raise one interesting idea though, can we really change from being average looking to good looking? For example, I've noticed that people with serious, serious flaws suddenly look much better if they are deformed. But can an average
person go from a 6 to a 9??
I would say it is possible, although significantly more difficult from a planning perspective. The surgical planning for faces that fall into the mild-severe deformity category tends toward the routine. All movements are large, and towards a very specific direction--that is, approximating symmetry and a normal profile. Aesthetic improvement occurs relatively easily in many of these cases, as approaching a normal aesthetic does more than just improve the patients appearance; in a very real sense, it restores some of the patients humanity. We often automatically--and tragically--see the deformed as almost less than human, especially patients who are candidates for major craniofacial reconstruction (Crouzon, Treacher Collins, severe Hemifacial microsomia, ect)
Surgical planning for enhancing a clinically normal face *can* be much more difficult. For one, enhancement is, in many respects, subjective, and the techniques used to achieve it all-the-more-so. It also depends on *why* a patients face is considered not as attractive as others. Is it that the are one or two easily addressed features (nose and ears, for instance) that are blemishing an otherwise model-like face? Or instead, is it that the patient's facial type/shape itself is--for whatever reasons-- considered less attractive, albeit normal, due to specific societal preferences? If it is the former, it is likely that objective, substantial improvement is possible; the latter, not so much.
A fascinating topic, for sure.
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But can an average person go from a 6 to a 9??
It's definitely possible, but it largely depends upon what you are presenting with and if the doctors involved can work with it. Look at the girl here:
http://calorielab.com/news/2008/08/21/dr-j-on-the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-facial-reconstruction/ (http://calorielab.com/news/2008/08/21/dr-j-on-the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-facial-reconstruction/)
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It's definitely possible, but it largely depends upon what you are presenting with and if the doctors involved can work with it. Look at the girl here:
http://calorielab.com/news/2008/08/21/dr-j-on-the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-facial-reconstruction/ (http://calorielab.com/news/2008/08/21/dr-j-on-the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-facial-reconstruction/)
Streo I totally agree that that girl ended up very good looking, but her befores are less a case of a "normal" face than someone who is on the more "deformed" side of the spectrum. So she's not really starting out from a "normal" status and thus her improvements radically change her appearance because they "normalize" her.
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It's definitely possible, but it largely depends upon what you are presenting with and if the doctors involved can work with it. Look at the girl here:
http://calorielab.com/news/2008/08/21/dr-j-on-the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-facial-reconstruction/ (http://calorielab.com/news/2008/08/21/dr-j-on-the-good-bad-and-ugly-of-facial-reconstruction/)
She's lucky that her flaws were correctable. If she had a long nose or a long upper lip, I doubt she would have gotten nearly as good a result. She does look fantastic -- her face is beautifully compact after surgery.
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She's lucky that her flaws were correctable. If she had a long nose or a long upper lip, I doubt she would have gotten nearly as good a result. She does look fantastic -- her face is beautifully compact after surgery.
Heavyweight, you are ABSOLUTELY correct. So I actually consulted with a facial aesthetics expert and he said that anyone who is considered highly attractive has a compact midface --by which he meant that the distance between the pupils and upper lip is relatively short. Also, the distance between the eyes (greater width, but not too wide is highly indicative of attractiveness). So yeah, orthagnathic surgery can't influence the latter. I wonder though, does impaction(which I don't need) affect the former? Oh well, we'll do the best we can.
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Seems like some of the guys in this thread have been spending too much time on puahate. I've seen dudes like the one in the first picture posted who date hot girls and are happy and confident. Sure, they'd have to try harder than that other guy, but that's a given. I don't think looks are going to hold you back that much unless you are substantially deformed.
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Seems like some of the guys in this thread have been spending too much time on puahate. I've seen dudes like the one in the first picture posted who date hot girls and are happy and confident. Sure, they'd have to try harder than that other guy, but that's a given. I don't think looks are going to hold you back that much unless you are substantially deformed.
Agreed. I date 9's and 10's and I'm only a 7.
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Sorry buddy, but you sound like a total tool with this numbering crap you appear to be obsessed with.
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Sorry buddy, but you sound like a total tool with this numbering crap you appear to be obsessed with.
Agreed.
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Sorry buddy, but you sound like a total tool with this numbering crap you appear to be obsessed with.
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/040/447/Haters_gonna_hate.jpg)
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(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/040/447/Haters_gonna_hate.jpg)
CANNOT UN-SEE!
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CANNOT UN-SEE!
Gotta scrub from my mind's eye :D !
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What about this guy? He isn't substantially deformed in any way, but he'll probably be rejected by society.
http://i.imgur.com/9Z0zD.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/9Z0zD.jpg)
rejected by society lol? he needs acne treatment and a decent haircut. you guys are so dark.
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What about this guy? He isn't substantially deformed in any way, but he'll probably be rejected by society.
http://i.imgur.com/9Z0zD.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/9Z0zD.jpg)
No, HW. He is in no way deformed :-\.
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What about this guy? He isn't substantially deformed in any way, but he'll probably be rejected by society.
http://i.imgur.com/9Z0zD.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/9Z0zD.jpg)
He's not deformed at all! I mean he seriously should get on some accutane, like RIGHT NOW so he doesn't develop any scars. . And he has a nice smile. Crap hair, get that s**t buzzed, he has pubic hair on his head so shouldn't grow it out. Maybe not wear such a stupid shirt. Put on a bit of muscle. He could totally mack it. But you know his posture and all, makes him look like a serious beta-male.
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Sorry buddy, but you sound like a total tool with this numbering crap you appear to be obsessed with.
You're just jelly! JELLY! JELLY! JELLY!
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I agree that his hair is unattractive, but I think a buzz would only emphasize his large nose and weak chin.
http://i.imgur.com/9agFz.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/9agFz.jpg)
geez do you know this person? are you allowed to post his pics online and basically insult his appearance?
he has acne, that can be treated. clindamycin+benzoyl peroxide=duac (high school chem w00t). duac is like $100 with my insurance so forget that. clindamycin is prescription but is available with most insurances. very cheap. benzo OTC is like 5 bucks at most. put the clin on since it is very creamy and the benzo after, three times a day. the acne should go eventually, also stop touching the face. grow the hair out, trust me he has cool curls it will look unique if he grows it out.
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What about this guy? He isn't substantially deformed in any way, but he'll probably be rejected by society.
http://i.imgur.com/9Z0zD.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/9Z0zD.jpg)
Wow, sorry but you simply don't live in the real world if you believe that. My (very good looking) 18 year old sister just moved in with a guy who is probably less attractive than this.
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Wow, sorry but you simply don't live in the real world if you believe that. My (very good looking) 18 year old sister just moved in with a guy who is probably less attractive than this.
i don't know. what gets me is when blatant problems can be treated so easily. encapsulated pus is just...gross, doesn't take a rocket scientist to buy the right chemicals and the nuke the stuff of the face. maybe he is just eating too much greasy foods?
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Honestly he has a nice face in my opinion. Good eyes, nice hairline shape, nice smile. I also agree that if he grew out his hair and rocked it with confidence he'd look great. As for acne, my friend who had it so chronically tried literally every topical treatment and nothing helped. Nothing. Accutane sorted it. With that this guy it totally fine.. He's just young and at that awkward stage so if I saw him I'd just think 'when he's older he'll be great'. Simple.
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Honestly he has a nice face in my opinion. Good eyes, nice hairline shape, nice smile. I also agree that if he grew out his hair and rocked it with confidence he'd look great. As for acne, my friend who had it so chronically tried literally every topical treatment and nothing helped. Nothing. Accutane sorted it. With that this guy it totally fine.. He's just young and at that awkward stage so if I saw him I'd just think 'when he's older he'll be great'. Simple.
He's actually 22.
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Ah I see. I definitely recommend Accutane. It can work
wonders. After years of low confidence, thick make up and endless
cleansing to no avail, Accutane literally changed my friend's life. A really full-on strong drug but from
what I saw, the results are worth it.
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don't see him as a beta really - think we're beyond the whole alpha/beta male conflict in RL. way too many variables and status indicators (money for example), this isn't the middle ages bro. there is nothing defective about the guy, he just needs to treat his acne and get a decent haircut or grow his hair out. he may not care the way he looks, and some people find that cool when the look is a man vs. wild sort of way, drinking his own you know, but not treating your face right (when it can be EASILY treated) makes people think you don't have any self-respect. which imo is worse than appearances.
yeah i know, i just found it so hillarious that everyone's feathers were getting ruffled by my looks rating system I thought I'd introduce another hilarious classification in the mix. God, you people are so easy...bro.
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but not treating your face right (when it can be EASILY treated)
I hope you know that while it can easily be treated, for some people most treatments are almost entirely ineffective. While my own acne was/is transient in nature, many have slavishly tried medicines and followed regimens to little or only temporary effect. I would not judge others self-respect on this basis.
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yeah i know, i just found it so hillarious that everyone's feathers were getting ruffled by my looks rating system I thought I'd introduce another hilarious classification in the mix. God, you people are so easy...bro.
Thanks for contributing...bro.
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Thanks for contributing...bro.
WOW!!! I've been updated to being a "junior member"!! Oh kalu kalay!! What a glorious day! Don't worry guys and grills! We will all come through victorious with our jaw surgeries looking beautiful and attractive and those who know us, will love us, and those who don't, will love us from afar! I love you guys!
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I hope you know that while it can easily be treated, for some people most treatments are almost entirely ineffective. While my own acne was/is transient in nature, many have slavishly tried medicines and followed regimens to little or only temporary effect. I would not judge others self-respect on this basis.
self-treatment maybe, but a dermatologist could diagnose him and prescribe the proper medicine. it does look like pretty advanced acne.
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self-treatment maybe, but a dermatologist could diagnose him and prescribe the proper medicine. it does look like pretty advanced acne.
Listen, trust me on this, the only thing that works on acne is f**king ACCUTANE --i know, I've taken it and everything else and it cured me. Also, you have to eat PALEO (cut out ALL sugar, all processed carbs, all wheat, gluten etc.) Just eat meat (fish, eggs, steak, bacon, bison, antelope, octopus, reindeer, muskrat, shrimps, lobster, human) and vegetables (anything green and colored), no starches. Drink only water and green tea. Since I went paleo my skin and hair have become glorious, shiny and lustrous.
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Listen, trust me on this, the only thing that works on acne is f**king ACCUTANE --i know, I've taken it and everything else and it cured me. Also, you have to eat PALEO (cut out ALL sugar, all processed carbs, all wheat, gluten etc.) Just eat meat (fish, eggs, steak, bacon, bison, antelope, octopus, reindeer, muskrat, shrimps, lobster, human) and vegetables (anything green and colored), no starches. Drink only water and green tea. Since I went paleo my skin and hair have become glorious, shiny and lustrous.
okay dr. jack. that may work for you but not everyone. i found duac to be extremely effect in eliminating acne and preventing it from showing up again. also, people often touch their face and not even realize it, dozens or hundreds of times a day. that can also create acne. i think the guy in the pic needs to see a pro/specialist because it looks rather advanced.
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Listen, trust me on this, the only thing that works on acne is f**king ACCUTANE --i know, I've taken it and everything else and it cured me.
I think it's great that Accutane worked for you, but it is a very bad idea for jaw surgery patients to take this. It can seriously mess up bone healing. Soft tissue is greatly affected, as well. Obviously.
Also, you have to eat PALEO (cut out ALL sugar, all processed carbs, all wheat, gluten etc.) Just eat meat (fish, eggs, steak, bacon, bison, antelope, octopus, reindeer, muskrat, shrimps, lobster, human) and vegetables (anything green and colored), no starches. Drink only water and green tea. Since I went paleo my skin and hair have become glorious, shiny and lustrous.
While I like much of what you subscribe to here, unless you're consumming enough high sugared veggies (carrots, beets, sweet potatoes etc), there is that potential to go a little mad if the brain is deprived.
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i was on accutane for 6 months and as soon as i got off it acne started comin back
it was my sex hormones being messed up, eating like s**t promotes this i think. birth control pills fixed it but not the underlying problem.
anyways, accutane does not worth for everyone!!!!!!!! and has some gross side effects.
i wasnt pizza face or anything but having acne made me even more neurotic/shy as a teen :-\
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please for the love of god stop saying bro!! say anything, call me anything, but don't call me bro, please! call me buddy, call me dude, call me f**ktard, but don't call me bro!
(http://roflrazzi.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/funny-celebrity-pictures-you-mad-bro.jpg)
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While I like much of what you subscribe to here, unless you're consumming enough high sugared veggies (carrots, beets, sweet potatoes etc), there is that potential to go a little mad if the brain is deprived.
yeah your brain needs glucose.
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Well today I am going to share a story in support for the answer to this question being "sometimes"
The last few days have been hard for me. I just started law school, and I thought that my class was making fun of me behind my back. It turns out they were making fun of some pretentious douche who says random stuff(law school is apparently full of these people). But for a solid day I thought my whole class hated me, and I assumed it had something to do with my mouth.
The point of the story is that if you have an insecurity you are probably going to have some type of social anxiety. And I suspect that even if I get my mouth "fixed" I will still have doubts and bad days related to this.
However most of the time I am a different person. So I would say overall it hasnt changed my personality. It has made me susceptible to shout sprouts of severe depression though.
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Well today I am going to share a story in support for the answer to this question being "sometimes"
The last few days have been hard for me. I just started law school, and I thought that my class was making fun of me behind my back. It turns out they were making fun of some pretentious douche who says random stuff(law school is apparently full of these people). But for a solid day I thought my whole class hated me, and I assumed it had something to do with my mouth.
The point of the story is that if you have an insecurity you are probably going to have some type of social anxiety. And I suspect that even if I get my mouth "fixed" I will still have doubts and bad days related to this.
However most of the time I am a different person. So I would say overall it hasnt changed my personality. It has made me susceptible to shout sprouts of severe depression though.
in my opinion people are paying more attention to themselves than your mouth. just try not to obsess on it i guess would be my advice.
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I don't know if it's rude to post other people's videos here - if it is, please tell me and I'll take it down. I really love this guy's video, though. I really wish he had more follow-up videos. Anyways, I think he has a nice perspective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQo71q5pA4g&list=FL0fp6RsgTeBwV0avXgGt0jg&index=6&feature=plpp_video
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I really love this guy's video, though. I really wish he had more follow-up videos. Anyways, I think he has a nice perspective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQo71q5pA4g&list=FL0fp6RsgTeBwV0avXgGt0jg&index=6&feature=plpp_video
Hey, thanks for posting. Is Spencer still documenting his surgeries? He's pretty interesting and fun. Unfortunatley, he hasn't posted an update since last September.
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Hey, thanks for posting. Is Spencer still documenting his surgeries? He's pretty interesting and fun. Unfortunatley, he hasn't posted an update since last September.
Not as far as I know, unfortunately. I wish he would have, because it seemed like he was going to have a lot of work done. In any case, I liked his video.
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No, this is from palate expansion surgery, one week post op. He said that it was actually a lot worse. I was surprised by the extent of bruising, especially around that left eye.
Too bad he stopped documenting. His facebook page and blog were never updated either. Wonder what happened. Hope all went well.
his nose really went up - is that just swelling?
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his nose really went up - is that just swelling?
Yes, that's just swelling. If he went through with the bimax, I hope his surgeon was mindful of his nose. He had a good one pre-surgery.
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Probably. I've been acutely aware enough to recognize how I would be perceived before people even get to know me.
For example, at every job I've worked at I've been perceived as the 'well-intentioned but clumsy goofball kid'. when I screw up, my boss (especially if it's a woman) is more likely to laugh about my incompetence and joke about it then berate me because they find me cute in an endearing way. and I play it up to an extent because it allows me to get off the hook on a lot of things. also most guys assume I'm a stoner, idk why, I smoke recreationally but not daily
I don't know how many people are self-aware of it, but even those who are aware usually fulfill their 'role' to some degree. This all satisfies my worldview of determinism btw.
Is it possible to be a member of this forum and still be religious? I don't see how you can be
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Probably. I've been acutely aware enough to recognize how I would be perceived before people even get to know me.
For example, at every job I've worked at I've been perceived as the 'well-intentioned but clumsy goofball kid'. when I screw up, my boss (especially if it's a woman) is more likely to laugh about my incompetence and joke about it then berate me because they find me cute in an endearing way. and I play it up to an extent because it allows me to get off the hook on a lot of things. also most guys assume I'm a stoner, idk why, I smoke recreationally but not daily
I don't know how many people are self-aware of it, but even those who are aware usually fulfill their 'role' to some degree. This all satisfies my worldview of determinism btw.
Is it possible to be a member of this forum and still be religious? I don't see how you can be
Interesting, in the professional world people always seem to have the preconceived idea that I am dumb and inexperienced. Or that I am just not confident and not suitable for a roll in which I have to interact directly with clients or oversee the operations of others (even though I have worked as an engineer with technicians underneath me). I have had so many interviews where the employer thinks I look good on paper, the phone interview goes great, but the in person interview is a completely different tone. It's not everything, but I do think it makes a difference.
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im kind of the same. i can do well one and one in interviews especially with authority figures because i can prepare and i have an idea of what to expect. social situations where i know absolutely no one can be way more challenging.
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Well, some of the interviews I was thinking of weren't just one on one. Had one where I had to give a presentation in front of 6 or 7 other employees from the company, another where they had a lunch scheduled for me with other people from the company rounded up for a meet and greet.
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I've always been a great interviewee, I don't know why cause I rarely even prepare
also I think being masculine-looking as man is a huge advantage, girls would rather take masculine over pretty even if the masculine guy is slightly ugly. I can't count how many times I've heard women say they want "a real man" when referring to looks. perceived sense of dominance or something