jawsurgeryforums.com
Surgeon Information => Surgeon Reviews and Leads => Topic started by: falcao on May 10, 2014, 04:41:49 AM
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I have to share this with you guys. My situation is going from bad to worse, planning wise.
Some of you remember I saw Jacobson - an orthodontist that works with Schendel - the day after I saw Arnett. He was supposed to send me a report after I paid $660 at his office the day I saw him, being referred by Schendel who had spent 15 minutes with me and charged another $260. Jacobson did not do I-cone beam or anything at all really the day I saw him, as I forwarded all this to him, nor did he talk to me that day, saying that he would call after having done the analysis. So, I went back to my country and was expecting his phone call on Monday as scheduled. I was expecting this phone call and was hoping some useful analysis from a world-class specialist. He didn't call. When I wrote his PA (I had to use emails due to the time difference between our countries), she told me that the phone call would take place today. She did not bother to apologize, but that's fine. This morning (my country's time, I got up extremely early and was really excited and hopeful) she called saying if I wanted to proceed with the phone call I should pay $95. I told her that the phone call was included in the $660 and the phone call was agreed upon as well as the written report that Jacobson promised so that I could take it to my orthodontist. She put me on hold forever (by the way, I was the one who called. She had told me before they could not call me and that I had to make the phone call from my phone. Calling from my cell phone from a country where the phone bills are astronomic, I was a little worried about the bill but decided not to think about it. Next thing I know, Jacobson answered the phone saying that if I want the report I should pay ANOTHER $1,350. I was shocked. He never mentioned this during the consult and it had been agreed that he would send me a report in exchange for the $660 fee. He hardly saw me for 2 minutes that day and I was really expecting the report to help me around making a decision (if I should take the surgical or non-surgical route). So, I declined politely paying anything further and that's where the conversation ended basically.
I just wanted to share this story with you as I have discussed Jacobson before with some of you privately. He is the most unethical human being I have ever dealt with in my life. I feel violated. Never in my life had I expected to pay $660 for nothing at all. I wish I had given the money to charity.
After Mommaerts, this is all I needed to completely lose hopes into these monster-doctors. Jacobson by the way came across more of a psychopath than a monster....
I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel. I put so much hope into this report to help me talk to my orthodontist confidently about the TADs option as opposed to undergoing LeFort 1.
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That's outrageous! How on earth do these people sleep at night.
I'd forget messing about with TADS if I were you, go straight for the Lefort 1 and get the best result you can. Do you have a local surgeon in mind?
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Thanks guys. I'm relatively low-income and I am ashamed to tell anyone, friends or family that I spent $1,000 at Schendel's/Jacobson's office for nothing at all. I only shared this with my sister and with you here. I honestly don't know how low you should be to do what he did to me.
The consult with Schendel was shocking as well - he was on his way to a surgery and thought of me and my questions an awful nuisance before showing me the door after only 15 minutes and doing practically 0 technical analysis. I was doing the talking 90% of the time during those 15 minutes. Next thing Jacobson's PA came in and offered Jacobson to do an analysis for me. I thought, great, Schendel must have sent her in because he believed Jacobson could help me. How naive I was, but how could I possibly know? She then said - but we'll need your credit card for this and it will cost $660 (on top of the $260 Schendel charged). And then they sent me home with the promise of the report. Today he was saying another $1,350 that they had AT NO POINT mentioned before. Both Schendel/Jacobson knew that I had come from half across the world for a consult. Complete opposite of Arnett, who was warm, professional and spend a couple of hours with me although the first thing I told him was that I was not going to have the surgery in US . He even invited Gunson to debate over my case although Gunson was extremely busy. At no point did they say "Gunson coming in here it will cost you another $XXXX (and of course, it didn't, just to be clear)". I couldn't believe that such two different people - Schendel/Arnett - can exercise the same profession. Now I understand why Shcendel/Jacobson coupled up.
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How well does Arnett and Gunson handle cases where something goes wrong? Their consultations obviously seem to be well worth the money but that's not enough for me.
Why did you go to Schendel by the way? Wasn't Arnett's report enough?
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Arnett reportedly has done more revisions than anyone else in the world. And this does not come from him, but from a local surgeon that I 've been seeing who attended his courses and knows him well professionally. If I could afford Arnett, I wouldn't doubt having a revision with him.
Why I saw Schendel? I was about to spend thousands of dollars and fly 20+ hours to California. It made sense that I put aside a little bit more and see at least two surgeons, in case the first one proved a disappointment. Plus, you expect from such professionals who built a name for themselves in their profession to be able to contribute something new that the other surgeon didn't think of or see. I expected a different perspective or a reassurance of what Arnett had to say. My expectations were reasonable. Besides, having a botched surgery behind me, of course I would seek more than one opinion now. I can't trust blindly anyone.
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Unfortunately these doctors can do anything to you and there is nothing you can do. Its really with any doctor but especially the case in cosmetic stuff. A doctor can butcher you to no end and for the most part he will be fine. Google dr. Michael evan sachs. Hes a cosmetic surgeon in ny who has butchered people for decades. He didn?t lose his license until 2008. It took tons of deaths before they took his license. Now this is an extreme case but in general your at their mercy, especially once you go under.thats why if your born good looking you she be thanking g-d every day.
Why not send your info to dr. stepehn sachs (no relation to evan lol). He did my bsso and is considered a top guy.
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I'm sorry, falcao.
I think I have said "I'm sorry" more on this site, then I have ever needed and/or wanted to in everyday life. I know saying that does nothing to help you, but I still feel bad for what you (and several others) are going through.
Does Schendel require that you work with Jacobson, or can you choose your own orthodontist?
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Complete opposite of Arnett, who was warm, professional and spend a couple of hours with me although the first thing I told him was that I was not going to have the surgery in US .
This was your first mistake. There is no way you should have admitted that you weren't going to have surgery with these guys. When you say something like this, to these kind of vultures, they immediately lose interest in you as a patient. So Schendel just f**ked off after 15 minutes, lets pretend he had a surgery to do lol, and Jacobson leapt in because he saw there was easy money to be made. You instantly turned yourself into a sucker by telling them that you were from a foreign country, and you were just using them for their opinions. All they were thinking is 'let's rip this guy off and then show him the door'. You needed to be a bit more savvy and at least pretend you were going to get a surgery.
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That's outrageous! How on earth do these people sleep at night.
I'd forget messing about with TADS if I were you, go straight for the Lefort 1 and get the best result you can. Do you have a local surgeon in mind?
That is a good advice, on the other hand I am 35 and not looking forward to impaction that could age the face and nose tip turning up and potentially an ante face that would not look good on me - because you need strong zygomatic and orbital areas to pull off that look, things I don't have - and all the other crap that comes with LeFort 1.
I do have a local surgeon on mind, but I remain undecided. I will make a decision soon; I'll have to.
Thanks earl25 for the suggestion. I might email some documents and questions this week to Sachs, but I doubt he will reply personally (?).
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I feel like all these California surgeons end up too concerned with money and notoriety. Even if they start out okay.
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I'm sorry, falcao.
I think I have said "I'm sorry" more on this site, then I have ever needed and/or wanted to in everyday life. I know saying that does nothing to help you, but I still feel bad for what you (and several others) are going through.
Does Schendel require that you work with Jacobson, or can you choose your own orthodontist?
This may sound dumb, but has anyone considered trying to get together a crowd funding effort to help pay for some of falcao's expenses? I'm sure members from this forum would donate - I certainly would. And if we put it up on a place like reddit it could well take off.
Thoughts everyone? Heck even if we can get him his money back on the consult it'd all be worth it.
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Thanks for the thought, but I really don't need that. All I hope for is someone can benefit from my experience.
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Does anyone by chance know if you can choose another orthodontist? If you want Schendel, but don't want Jacobson? It that alright, or do you HAVE to work with Jacobson?
Thanks everyone!
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Wanted to quickly chime in with my story - several years ago when I was early in this process pre-braces scheduling consults I was keen on having a consult with Dr.Schendel. I was out of state. I made it very very clear I had set up with an Ortho in town and I just wanted a consult. Holy s**t. I went through about a month of back and forth with the very friendly and kind staff member who kept saying I could meet with Jacobson and his partner first and I kept reiterating I only wanted to meet with Schendel since flying every 6 weeks is not feasible. She still said I should see Jacobson because Schendel would be there every now and then and I should see him first. I asked for consult fees over the phone I was never given a straight quote. After 2-3 months of this back and forth I said F it.
Luckily I did.
Take a look at the reviews here - filtered and unfiltered.
http://www.yelp.com/not_recommended_reviews/richard-l-jacobson-dmd-ms-pacific-palisades?not_recommended_start=0
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What the heck is going on with these two? This whole bulls**t with being dishonest about what something is going to cost really pisses me off.
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Holy s**t balls, thanks Cmonster. At least some reviews at the end were good. Yikes!
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What the heck is going on with these two? This whole bulls**t with being dishonest about what something is going to cost really pisses me off.
I don't know what's going on and I'm glad I never got involved enough to find out. It just seems very unprofessional and sloppy - it's hard to know what' is and isn't . He has a "5 star rating " which is incredibly misleading since he has so many unhappy stories being filtered- either way they are there for all to read .
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I've read many stories about Yelp offering businesses the ability to remove bad reviews in exchange for money. I would never trust a site like this.
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Thanks for the reviews, after having put surgery on hold for over a year, I'm ready to get things rolling.
I'm considering taking a few trips to see some of the bigger name surgeons just to get their opinion. It seems like Arnett may be worthwhile consulting with even if I'm unlikely to get surgery with him. I was also considering consulting with Sinn as he isn't too far from me.
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I just wanted to share this story with you as I have discussed Jacobson before with some of you privately. He is the most unethical human being I have ever dealt with in my life. I feel violated. Never in my life had I expected to pay $660 for nothing at all. I wish I had given the money to charity.
Yes, Jacobson is the most unethical person I've met in my life as well, with Schendel a very close #2.
The consult with Schendel was shocking as well - he was on his way to a surgery and thought of me and my questions an awful nuisance before showing me the door after only 15 minutes and doing practically 0 technical analysis.
Schendel has either no idea or no desire on how to do technical analysis, which is pretty amazing from a doctor who writes textbooks about jaw surgery. He sent me only one hand-drawn picture of the profile of a face, which one could deduct nothing from since there was no reference point. When I brought him my digital models, he couldn't even figure out how to open the file. Eventually he got angry/frustrated and said that those models don't matter anyway.
Despite Schendel's impressive résumé, he is incompetent. He looks great on paper, but that's where it ends. He is an incompetent surgeon who hides behind his résumé.
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Yet he has all those publications on virtual surgery planing... I guess they were largely written by his co-authors. He probably didn't read them, let alone write them, just put his name on the papers. Happens in academia all the time.
Just goes to show - all that matters is results. Publications mean nothing.
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Just wanna chime in about how unethical Dr. Jacobson and Stephen Shendel are.
I went to see them and after examining me for 15 minutes Schendel charged me 1000 dollars!!!
He didn't do any sort of technical analysis or morph and he made all sorts of promises that sounded far far too good to be trrue.
Honestly, I think most max facs are corrupt on all sorts of levels. But Jacobson and Schendel are two who take it to a new level of f**king you in the ass.
Personally, I wish I had gone with Dr. Gunson. But Arnett and Gunson aren't angels either. THey inflate their prices with the HA grafts. Charging that much forr surgery is a crime.