jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: FaceDay on September 09, 2014, 11:41:43 PM
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Obviously sports during the recovery period is out of the question, however I'm curious about any lingering fragileness that would limit your ability play sports in the long term. Let's assume Lefort I + BSSO as a model jaw surgery. Will the upper jaw fracture make it significantly easier to break your face again? Is there a danger of popping something out of place while lifting several times your bodyweight? Would you have to give up boxing or martial arts? List things you can't do after jaw surgery even when fully recovered.
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Obviously sports during the recovery period is out of the question, however I'm curious about any lingering fragileness that would limit your ability play sports in the long term. Let's assume Lefort I + BSSO as a model jaw surgery. Will the upper jaw fracture make it significantly easier to break your face again? Is there a danger of popping something out of place while lifting several times your bodyweight? Would you have to give up boxing or martial arts? List things you can't do after jaw surgery even when fully recovered.
I too wondered about martial arts. Anyone know?
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what about chin wing and zygomatic osteotomy?
I play european football at a semi pro level. When could i play again? cheers
Not for at least a year according to Sean.
Not sure how that will go for you then...
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Jesus christ.
I am willing to wait one year if the doctor says its really important, however i believe I have a margin to shorten that time.
Do you think 3 months is feasible?
I would train as hell in these 3 months without ball, i think I could improve my condition and take the time to do some physio for my knee. I
I will email my dr and let you know
One surgeon I consulted said a football player he operated on wa back on the field in 8 or 12 weeks (forget the exact number exactly). This was orthognathic surgery.
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Regardless of whether a bone was fractured playing sports (or whatever), or by a surgical cut (osteotomy) it should heal to be as strong as it was prior to the break. In an otherwise healthy individual, there shouldn't be any lingering issue or restrictions. Obviously, consult your surgeon!
I have no idea about a time frame, though. I'm also not sure if the screws and plates in your face come into play. I don't really see how they would, but I don't know for sure.
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I have heard that at 10 weeks post-op your jaw is as "strong" as it's going to get. Not that you won't still be in pain, have swelling, can't eat etc. but that the risk from impact isn't going to reduce anymore after 10 weeks.
I would not have been physically up for contact sports at 10 weeks anyway, I got tired so quickly still.
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would the screws in your jaw bone be week spots? but, that aside, isn't a bone that's been broken and healed stronger than it was before? isn't there a slight thickening of the bone at the fracture/cut point?
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Not sure about the screws and plates being weak spots. I don't know why they would be, but that's beyond my knowledge base.
Yes, often bones do heal to be essentially stronger than they were prior to a break. I believe that thought process applies to bones that were broken "normally," not from surgical cuts (I don't know if that would matter or not, but I don't see why it would). Also, I think it's important to remember, if your mandible is cut and moved for jaw surgery (for example) the osteotomy sites may heal to be marginally stronger than they were prior, but your whole mandible will NOT be stronger. This is also only applicable to the normal, healthy person (tons of stuff can f**k with bone remodeling).
Yep, if a person fractures a bone, there is often additional calcium deposited at the break (sometimes visible, if only temporarily, on an X-ray, MRI or CT).
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Not sure about the screws and plates being weak spots. I don't know why they would be, but that's beyond my knowledge base.
Yes, often bones do heal to be essentially stronger than they were prior to a break. I believe that thought process applies to bones that were broken "normally," not from surgical cuts (I don't know if that would matter or not, but I don't see why it would). Also, I think it's important to remember, if your mandible is cut and moved for jaw surgery (for example) the osteotomy sites may heal to be marginally stronger than they were prior, but your whole mandible will NOT be stronger. This is also only applicable to the normal, healthy person (tons of stuff can f**k with bone remodeling).
Yep, if a person fractures a bone, there is often additional calcium deposited at the break (sometimes visible, if only temporarily, on an X-ray, MRI or CT).
So if one year post-op I get all the screws removed my jaw will forever be weaker than it is now?
And can you explain why the whole mandible would be weaker, even if the cut site is stronger?
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Nope, regardless of if you pull your plates/screws, your jaw shouldn't be weaker than it is now.
Using the mandible as an example, the osteotomy sites may potentially heal to be more dense than they would have been sans osteotomy/cut. And it's not that the rest of your mandible will be left weaker, it's just that it's not going to be any stronger/more dense.
Osteotomy site and/or place of bone fracture = potentially more dense.
The rest of the surrounding bone = your prior bone density.
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Nope, regardless of if you pull your plates/screws, your jaw shouldn't be weaker than it is now.
Using the mandible as an example, the osteotomy sites may potentially heal to be more dense than they would have been sans osteotomy/cut. And it's not that the rest of your mandible will be left weaker, it's just that it's not going to be any stronger/more dense.
Osteotomy site and/or place of bone fracture = potentially more dense.
The rest of the surrounding bone = your prior bone density.
I see, that makes sense.
So really martial arts, sport, all that shouldn't be a problem at all once everything's fully healed.
I wonder what about a ZSO since that uses a block between the bone in most cases. According to Triaca this isn't always necessary however.
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I forgot to mention the HA paste that some surgeons seem to favor. I certainly don't know for sure, but I would personally be more concerned if that took a direct, forceful hit.
I don't know anything about using a block between the bone for a ZSO.
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I forgot to mention the HA paste that some surgeons seem to favor. I certainly don't know for sure, but I would personally be more concerned if that took a direct, forceful hit.
I don't know anything about using a block between the bone for a ZSO.
Yea I was reading up on how a lot of that stuff has a way higher risk of shattering due to lack of collagen.
Even though I doubt it'll be used on me, I think Triaca is onto something with Bio-Oss in membranes. Then again, Tiny was saying how wherever there is bone ingrowth there will be some collagen which could make it better.
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Okay, we can expect the bone to fuse just as strong as the former tissue or stronger, but what about the fact that your maxilla is now in two pieces with your upper jaw hanging out like a shelf? I have to imagine the shape is not as good for absorbing a blow. Then again, if people were ending up with glass faces after jaw surgery we'd probably be hearing the complaints.
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Okay, we can expect the bone to fuse just as strong as the former tissue or stronger, but what about the fact that your maxilla is now in two pieces with your upper jaw hanging out like a shelf? I have to imagine the shape is not as good for absorbing a blow. Then again, if people were ending up with glass faces after jaw surgery we'd probably be hearing the complaints.
Isn't that purpose of mineral grafting/bio oss/bone grafting? It smoothes out the edges to avoid just that
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It's not just about the jaw, it's about the hip graft as well which requires rest.
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About 9 months after upper/lower bimax and chin I was hit in the face with a soccerball several times during a game or practice and was fine. A few months earlier may have been a different story!
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I think some bones heal even stronger than the original, as they often become slightly thicker
I know guys who broke their mandible through MMA and were back in the ring 2 months later.
Personally I will give it 3 months and then I will go right back to MMA. For the nose I was advised 6 months but that's because rhinoplasty takes ages to heal and the cartilage and swelling makes it more complicated
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About 9 months after upper/lower bimax and chin I was hit in the face with a soccerball several times during a game or practice and was fine. A few months earlier may have been a different story!
Now we're getting somewhere. Come on people, let's hear your stories of being hit in the face after surgery.
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I think some bones heal even stronger than the original, as they often become slightly thicker
I know guys who broke their mandible through MMA and were back in the ring 2 months later.
Personally I will give it 3 months and then I will go right back to MMA. For the nose I was advised 6 months but that's because rhinoplasty takes ages to heal and the cartilage and swelling makes it more complicated
At what point do you think the bone is done moulding around and into the osteotomy and grafts? Where it's 100% as good as it's going to get.
Not just talking about strength of course.
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this isn't so much about the strength of the join but about the shape that remains afterwards. if the maxilla is advanced in someone who has a recessive upper jaw, would the front of the maxilla be left protruding somewhat beneath the bone around the nose? I don't know if that makes any sense but is the very anterior most part of the maxilla left slightly less supported from above?
er, I guess I won't be writing any scientific papers anytime soon. ::)
also, in a bsso where the mandible is advanced are there sections of the jaw that are left thinner afterwards? don't they sort of do a cut that splits the bone and then slide the two surfaces past each other? but wouldn't that leave to places on both sides that are only half their previous thickness? or is it totally different from this?
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At what point do you think the bone is done moulding around and into the osteotomy and grafts? Where it's 100% as good as it's going to get.
Not just talking about strength of course.
Dunno, I'm not a biologist, I'm a chemist :P
2 months? 3 months?
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Disillusioned,
A routine, post-op CT should show a pretty accurate representation of bone density and healing. Obviously, there's a standard timeline where bones are supposed to be fully healed, but everyone is just so damn different. Even if the CT looks perfect, and your surgeon gives you an OK, I would err on the side of caution, and most importantly listen to your own body. If your CT is great, but it still hurts when you press on your face to wash it in the morning (at night, both, whatever), then I would wait!
Have you ever broken a bone before? This is probably a poor example, but I broke a bone many years ago that healed "alarmingly quickly" (WTF?) according to my doctor. He said I was "100% good to go" at the three week mark (three weeks!). Yes, it looked perfect on my scans, but it also still hurt (maybe the word hurt is a little dramatic, but it definitely didn't feel right). Even though it was technically completely healed, I wouldn't have risked being struck where the fracture took place just yet.
Listen to your surgeon, look at the scans yourself, still be cautious. That's just my two cents.
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is there a differing length in recovery time depending on the surgery? eg, would a bsso take longer to 'heal' than a le fort 1?