jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: baldguy83 on March 06, 2015, 04:44:08 AM
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I think I suffer from midface deficiency and a weak lower jaw (and baldness, but there's no cure for that! ;D), see pics below. The weak lower jaw can be fixed with a BSSO (I already have the orthodontic part almost done), but is it worth considering a zygomatic osteotomy to fill out the midface more? I read on this forum that such an osteotomy cannot fix 'infraorbital recession', but I'm not sure whether that applies to my case as well ;)
Also, does anyone have any recommendations for surgeons based around The Netherlands/Germany/Belgium who can carry out these procedures? I was thinking of going with MM at first, but I've read a lot of bad press about him lately.
Thank a lot in advance! :)
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i think your midface projection is normal but you have flat cheekbones in the 3/4. ramin zarrinbal in berlin does midface osteotomies.
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i think your midface projection is normal but you have flat cheekbones in the 3/4. ramin zarrinbal in berlin does midface osteotomies.
How would a zygomatic osteotomy help though? I suspect it will just create a plateau under his eyes that will exaggerate whatever infraorbital weakness that already exists. I'm far from an expert on the matter though so don't take my word for it.
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i think your midface projection is normal but you have flat cheekbones in the 3/4. ramin zarrinbal in berlin does midface osteotomies.
That's the second time Zarrinbal has been named. Thing is, it's hard to find information about him, or about surgeries he has (successfully) performed. Or am I looking in the wrong places? Also two years ago MM was being hyped as one of the best max-facs (I was initially planning to let him perform the surgery), and supposedly now he is a butcher. Has Zarrinbal earned his reputation? Sorry for being so skeptical about your suggestion!
Also, does he deal with international patients? My German is kind of rusty.
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Several patients on this forum has had successful surgeries with Zarrinbal. One even had a zygomatic osteotomy.
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Ah, I see you are referring to the topic by Piccoloprincipe15, in which falcao also shares his experiences. Sounds good indeed. Thanks!
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That's the second time Zarrinbal has been named. Thing is, it's hard to find information about him, or about surgeries he has (successfully) performed. Or am I looking in the wrong places? Also two years ago MM was being hyped as one of the best max-facs (I was initially planning to let him perform the surgery), and supposedly now he is a butcher. Has Zarrinbal earned his reputation? Sorry for being so skeptical about your suggestion!
Also, does he deal with international patients? My German is kind of rusty.
Honey, there is no supposedly about it, Maurice Mommaerts is a butcher, trust me (and the legions of his other victims) on that point. Whatever you do avoid the bastard at all costs.
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Yeah, I've been reading up on him on this and other forums. Seems like his reputation dropped like a rock the past two years. Bizarre. It's almost as if he stopped giving a damn.
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It seems to be since he took the position of Professor at UZ Brussel (s**tty teaching hospital, avoid them all if possible). That combined with folks having the balls to speak out, failed surgery knocks you in such a way that it can be quite difficult to talk about.
In his own words, "I am paid a salary by the University, patients are a disadvantage to me".
Are you in the UK?
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I actually visited UZ Brussel and specifically his department once, it indeed seemed quite disorganized. Everyone was quite friendly though (including MM), but that is no guarantee for good surgical results obviously.
I'm a Dutchie, the tall kind.
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I'm a Dutchie, the tall kind.
Thought that was the only kind ;)
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Surprisingly, not every Dutchman is over 6 feet! Those who fail the threshold are met with much scorn in public life, obviously. Many of them secretely tend to wear stilts to try and be inconspicuous, hence you UK folk don't notice them amongst us true Dutchies.
Either way, I'm going to try and talk to some of Zarrinbal's (ex-) patients to get the feel of the man. First impressions seem positive.
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I wear stilts also from time to time, the red sole variety usually.
Falcao is another satisfied Z patient, he's been through a lot so approach him with respect and I'm sure he'll help you if he can.
Good luck.
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Yeah, I've sent him a PM already, hopefully he will respond :)
You have any experience with Zarrinbal perchance?
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No but he would have next on my list to consult with.
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Just a quick headsup, had a very nice consult with dr. Z and he suggested a chin wing + bsso + chin osteotomy + zygomatic osteotomy, as I expected :) Had a cone beam CT performed last week here in the NL (Mesantis in Berlin was not an option), and just submitted the CD with the DICOM data to dr. Z. Hopefully the mandibular nerve is in a good position for the chin wing to be carried out.
I could also use a nose job, but I'm not sure if I want to have that carried out at the same time as the jaw surgery.
P.S.: it's quite interesting to play around with the DICOM data! Lots of (free) software available to visualize it.
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I'm now 3,5 weeks post-op, and everything is going well :) Still a bit of swelling around the lower jaw, but I already look much improved compared to my earlier situation. I finally have cheeks! Also really, really, love my new profile. It was quite weak-looking before.
Now i have to wait for my lower jaw to heal fully (~ 3 months), and then I'm getting my nose (and maybe ears) addressed, also by dr. Z.
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That's good news! Did you have all of the things you mentioned at once? I'm really curious to see how the ZO turned out since I'm planning on having a bimax + chin wing + ZO with Zarrinbal myself.
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Dr. Z. carried out a BSSO + chin wing + ZO in one sitting, yes :) It was a long surgery (approximately 10 hours!) but everything went well. I stayed in the clinic (Havelklinik) for a week afterwards, just to be sure (I had to travel from The Netherlands). I've been in Berlin for two check-ups afterwards, the next one is in three weeks (Dr. Z. is on holiday now). I'm very satisfied with the ZO, it added a lot of much needed width to my midface, and even some anterior projection.
So far, I can really, really, recommend Dr. Z. He's a very nice and caring person, and seems to be really skilled.
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Dr. Z. carried out a BSSO + chin wing + ZO in one sitting, yes :) It was a long surgery (approximately 10 hours!) but everything went well. I stayed in the clinic (Havelklinik) for a week afterwards, just to be sure (I had to travel from The Netherlands). I've been in Berlin for two check-ups afterwards, the next one is in three weeks (Dr. Z. is on holiday now). I'm very satisfied with the ZO, it added a lot of much needed width to my midface, and even some anterior projection.
So far, I can really, really, recommend Dr. Z. He's a very nice and caring person, and seems to be really skilled.
Congrats, man! I'm really happy for you! You also managed to escape the clutches of MM. Double win!
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Oh, this sounds great dude. :)
I'd be happy if you'd share some pics with us, since I'm curious about the ZO results. He couldn't show me many guys who did that procedure. :)
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Congrats, man! I'm really happy for you! You also managed to escape the clutches of MM. Double win!
Yeah, thanks to you guys!
I'd be happy if you'd share some pics with us, since I'm curious about the ZO results. He couldn't show me many guys who did that procedure. :)
I won't post any pictures in public, sorry :) I only share in PM with people I already 'know' from this forum.
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what sort of prices we talking about for all of that with Zarrinbal?
Also, a general question for anyone#:
If I was to get something like Damon Braces in a attempt to widen my smile and straighten my teeth and maybe even 'lift' my face a little (as the 'claim' to do) but then decide that I still want jaw surgery, are my teeth already more or less in the 'correct' position for surgery? (or at least better than they would have been prior to braces?)
Thanks muchly
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what sort of prices we talking about for all of that with Zarrinbal?
Each procedure is typically 5-8k euro. Add to that around 150 euro per night spent in the hospital.
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Dude nice!!!!! Glad everything well man. I think I've seen your before pictures. Would love to see some after pics.
I'm looking into getting ZO after JS to also widen my face. I already have a big skull just my zygo sort of cave in....
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Each procedure is typically 5-8k euro. Add to that around 150 euro per night spent in the hospital.
Wow. Think I need to think about getting another 2 or 3 jobs! lol
??? :
Also, a general question for anyone#:
If I was to get something like Damon Braces in a attempt to widen my smile and straighten my teeth and maybe even 'lift' my face a little (as the 'claim' to do) but then decide that I still want jaw surgery, are my teeth already more or less in the 'correct' position for surgery? (or at least better than they would have been prior to braces?)
Thanks muchly
thanks
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wait so that's like 25 000 euros for a chin wing, bsso, lefort, and ZSOO? That's a friggin steal!
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Are you serious? The amount is nothing for this procedures including hospital fees. In switzerland they would offset 1000-3000 swissfrancs per night only a ching wing alone by Triaca will cost you about 20 000 swiss francs if not more not to tell what it would cost all this procedures together I guess above 60 000 swiss francs so he makes the real deal with Zarrinbal and Im glad to hear that he is happy with the results.
''A steal'' means ''a bargain''. Cheap. Good value.
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Thanks jester "to steal" is not the same as "a steal".
lol
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5 weeks post-op now, everything's still smooth sailing. Working on opening my mouth a bit wider now. I'm pretty much back to regular food, though I'm obviously still avoiding the tougher stuff, and won't be biting into apples any time soon. Still very happy with my result, now that the swelling is subsiding more and more I look better and better.
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baldy, do you know what kind of cut dr.z did on your cheeks? Was it option A or B?
(http://oi60.tinypic.com/k02f5v.jpg)
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arent your masseters attach to your zygos? so after getting a ZSO your muscles would technically be in different a position and function differently no?
Also how stable is a procedure like this?
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cut in A line may damage your small zygomatic nerves. some or all . There are 2-3 small foramens where tiny nerves come out
However we all have these foramens little in different places +/- 0.5 cm for some more. So it depends and for most people it's not bothering when they are cut
(http://o.quizlet.com/i/KZW3xh3o2OqzgbqtXo1pcw_m.jpg)
Look at 2 mini holes near the orbital rim
For example I have these holes more to the left and down (relative to picture)
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I have no nerve issues at all in my mid-face, so I guess I got 'lucky'. Not really though, I think dr. Z knows what's he's doing.
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@baldguy - what kind of cut did you have? a, b or something different?
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Not sure really. I think it was two vertical cuts.