jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => General Chat => Topic started by: Tom2 on March 22, 2015, 04:45:19 AM
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Hi Everyone.
It's Sunday morning and in slightly more than a day I'll be having the slice and dice party known as double jaw surgery with a little chin implant surgery to finish things off.
I've been in braces for about 2.5 years and with luck I'll have those off by the end of this year with the help of this surgery.
I've heard the first 2 to 3 days of recovery are the worst so I am not looking forward to that. I'm also worried about being worse off than I am now.
Well, here we go.
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Good luck.
Time goes fast. A week from now you'll be past the early stages.
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Thanks. I hope so.
I hear the first 2 to 3 days are not pleasant.
This time tomorrow I'll be 3/4 way through surgery.
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Goodluck! You'll do fine. And what GJ said, time flies. Im going to be at 1 year post op this summer and its gone by so quick. Life doesnt slow down for you ;)
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Thanks.
Was it worth it? Are you happowe/healthier now?
I have kids. Life does not slow down.
Surgery begins in less than 12 hours.
I'm nervous. Maybe even scared.
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Waiting on the pre-op people. See you on the other side....
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Good luck, I hope everything goes fine.
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Still in icu. Tough recovery. Getting better I think. Really tough right now.
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Wow! Hope everything went great. Hang in there, it can only go up from this point!
Kids will be hanging to see you I bet.
Chin up, maybe not so much at the moment ... Just raise your eyebrows ;)
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Still alive. Mouth splint is uncomfortable. Drinking is a slow process. This better be worth it.
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I have a little energy so I'll share with you all a bit.
Surgery was 9 hours. Started at noon. I wasn't woken up till 9 am the next day. Plan was to go home Wednesday but it's Thursday and I'm on an ICU still. Good news is they are going yo transfer me to a regular floor. Maybe home by Friday. Fingers crossed. Docs have been by and say everything is looking good. I can open and close slightly. Pain is tolerable. Toridol has been helpful. I miss my kids. My wife is coming back in today. She has been wonderful in helping me.
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Another night in the hospital but things are getting better.
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No kidding huh? And they kept me under until 9 am the next day.
I've made it to a step down unit. Going home tomorrow I hope.
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Wow 9 hours that sounds scary, they must have made an error at some point and had to correct it. Hope you're alright. Have you pressed the surgeon on this timespan issue?
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Hang in there, Tom2.
Hope you're doing as well as possible :)
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Sunday morning right now I think.
I just slept about 3 hours straight. New record post op!
I m not missing food as much as I thought at this stage. Odd. I have been able to walk, brush my teeth and live in a state of mind a little more normal.
The pain is weird. First, I'm refusing narcotics due to what the impact they seemed to have had on me.
I'm managing to get by on Tylenol. Sometimes I feel an ice pick going into my skull, sometimes it's like a metallic worm like screw working it's way through my teeth. the lower jaw is an exhausting constant pressure that tires me out. A few sharp hmm pains have almost made me run to the narcotics but that has been limited.
My throat is sore and it's just not fair to have to deal with that on top of everything else. its lilt the sore throat is the straw to break the camel's back.
I've been able to brush the fronts of my teeth. I feel tingly in many areas. I can move my lips a bit. I feel nothing in my lower lip or front of chin.
Emotions. Right now I would not have put myself through this if I had known what I was facing. The mouth splint is evil. What if the results suck? What if they are disappointing. What if I end up worse.
I'll ask doctor for more details on surgery time.
Apparently, after the surgery, I was not waking up and at a certain point they considered it safer to keep me under and maintain my airway than to have me crash in the middle of the night. So , I stay under till about 8:30 the next day. I remember the breaththing tubes coming out and puking. I remember the Cath thing coming out. I remember being restrained in the bed.
I'm going to try to get some more rest now. A day of getting fluids, eating Fluids, taking meds and mouthcare is coming an. I need some energy to face it.
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Wow, that sounds very full on. Hope you are able to rest and things improve after the first week.
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Sounds awful. Is that a function of the surgery length? I've met many people who said it wasn't that big a deal. There's a guy in my office who had it done in 1990 even. Is it about expectations? Or just normal variation between individuals?
Also, what makes the splint so evil? Is it any different than, say, a mouthguard?
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Sounds awful. Is that a function of the surgery length? I've met many people who said it wasn't that big a deal. There's a guy in my office who had it done in 1990 even. Is it about expectations? Or just normal variation between individuals?
Also, what makes the splint so evil? Is it any different than, say, a mouthguard?
My upper jaw surgery was only 1.5 hours long. I lost no weight, had no pain. No dietary restrictions after 4 weeks... But my upper lip is still partially numb after 6 months. This is really starting to grate on me. IOW, your mileage may vary.
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plosko what do you mean grate on me? its starting to bother you?
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plosko what do you mean grate on me? its starting to bother you?
All surgery guides mention lower lip numbness as a potential permanent sensory change. Upper lip numbness is supposed to be temporary and is therefore hardly mentioned. I've had mine for 6 months, expecting it to resolve "any day now". But the longer something is like this, the more likely it is to remain so. I do think it's connected to the altered sensation in my palate and numbness in my teeth and gums. Those can take as long as a year to resolve.
BTW, don't let this dissuade you from surgery. You need it (and you're are young).
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@PloskoPlus Did the surgeon tell you how this happened? I know they need to cut through all the nerves feeding the palate and upper teeth. My understanding is the upper lip and cheeks are simply a side effect of inflammation. Did you have cheek work done too? It seems to heal really well, I've never heard of permanent numbness there. My local surgeon said 3 years for it to fully heal. I read one case of lasting numbness in the incisors but even then it could have come back later. Everyone's nerves are different though. Is it impacting you functionally? Can you live with it?
I just saw this article (http://io9.com/tiny-nanoneedles-could-help-your-damaged-organs-repair-1694500656) today about potential treatment, no shortage of crap like this that goes nowhere and won't help if the nerve is unreached, embedded in a mandible for example lol. Some in the Paleo community believe in intermittent fasting for accelerating nerve repair too.
This is the main reason I was interested in Dr Alfaro's technique. Smaller incision to the soft tissue maxilla means less likely to have permanent nerve damage. But then I realized that the incision is in the area most likely to have permanent numbness. Still, I think it's really cool. He only published the paper a few years ago but I wish surgeons here were familiar with it. They all seem to know each other, maybe they do it and we just don't know.
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@PloskoPlus Did the surgeon tell you how this happened? I know they need to cut through all the nerves feeding the palate and upper teeth. My understanding is the upper lip and cheeks are simply a side effect of inflammation. Did you have cheek work done too? It seems to heal really well, I've never heard of permanent numbness there. My local surgeon said 3 years for it to fully heal. I read one case of lasting numbness in the incisors but even then it could have come back later. Everyone's nerves are different though.
Local nerve branches are cut. It's unavoidable. No cheeks. Well, OK, apparently my plates are right under the cheekbones. My right side was also more recessed pre-op and that's the one with the most numbness/paraesthesia. Also my jaw had to be narrowed at the back because it would not have fit my lower as it came forward (I guess that childhood palatal expander did its work).
Is it impacting you functionally? Can you live with it?
People can lose limbs and live. I wouldn't even call it numbness. More like semi-numbness, altered sensation. My lip and front teeth (especially on the right) get this very tight and tired feeling after talking a lot or swimming. Like the lip is sutured or something (technically it was, VY plasty and all that). I can feel "sparks" in the lip when I touch the area next to my nostril.
It will probably come back (I hope). It's more annoying than anything. But psychologically I think I won't be over the surgery until the lip comes back. I guess I'm one of those "80% achieved" cases. (Though some have said my result is very good. Top 10%. I dunno about that).
I just saw this article (http://io9.com/tiny-nanoneedles-could-help-your-damaged-organs-repair-1694500656) today about potential treatment, no shortage of crap like this that goes nowhere and won't help if the nerve is unreached, embedded in a mandible for example lol. Some in the Paleo community believe in intermittent fasting for accelerating nerve repair too.
For the record, I eat little in general and very little carbs in particular. Not paleo diet, more like "don't want to be fat" diet.
This is the main reason I was interested in Dr Alfaro's technique. Smaller incision to the soft tissue maxilla means less likely to have permanent nerve damage. But then I realized that the incision is in the area most likely to have permanent numbness. Still, I think it's really cool. He only published the paper a few years ago but I wish surgeons here were familiar with it. They all seem to know each other, maybe they do it and we just don't know.
Why is not more widespread then?
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Good Tuesday Morning.
I'll be having a follow up with the doctor today so we'll see what happens there.
The Mouth Splint.
It covers the top of your mouth. Your tongue has limited space to move and you feel it when you swallow. I've always had a gag reflex that worked overtime so between that and how it limits speaking, eating and general comfort - I find it one of the worst parts of the surgery.
I have a sore throat and that's just extra crap I don't need right now.
Just in general - pain hasn't been the problem. I had some issues after the surgery that were more narcotic related than anything about what I had done.
My focus now is to get the mouth splint out (I can't work with it in), get nutrition in (Again - damn mouth splint) and hopefully see a return to feeling in my nose and lower lip/chin area.
My breathing is feeling better - much improved. Appearances also seem to be improving but we'll see more about that as the swelling goes down. From what I can tell, my side profile has changed.
I was in braces prior to the surgery so that aspect will continue and hopefully end by year's end.
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People can lose limbs and live. I wouldn't even call it numbness. More like semi-numbness, altered sensation. My lip and front teeth (especially on the right) get this very tight and tired feeling after talking a lot or swimming. Like the lip is sutured or something (technically it was, VY plasty and all that). I can feel "sparks" in the lip when I touch the area next to my nostril.
Semi-numbness doesn't sound so terrible. The sparks? Like allodynia? That could be a pain. Sleep on your side and it keeps you up.
For the record, I eat little in general and very little carbs in particular. Not paleo diet, more like "don't want to be fat" diet.
This. Good for jaw surgery recovery. No cavities. Supposedly, low carb helps nerves regenerate too.
Why is not more widespread then?
Paper was just published in 2012. Maybe other surgeons are using it, who knows. But they're also averse to trying new things. Who wants to be the first patient? Dr Alfaro has to train them personally I think. Why do you think so few surgeons still do CCW rotations? Even many of Dr W's fellows don't seem to do it.
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12 days post op.
Improvements to things like breathing, sleeping, drinking and just in general existing each of these days has gotten much better.
I lose 25 pounds a little too quickly but have put some of that back on as drinking has gotten easier and I'm doing better with the diet and planning.
I still hate the mouth splint.
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Hey Tom2,
Hope you're doing progressively better and better!
Can I ask if you lost 25 pounds in only 12 days?
Take care, and happy healing :)
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Hey.
Yea, I'm healing. I don;t know that I would say that I am feeling better.
Honestly, at this point, if I could go back in time and not do the surgery - I would. Maybe time will change that.
I did lose about 25 pounds in about 9-12 days - I can't remember right now. My wife was freaked out. I was very active and on top of that I always had a fast metabolism to boot. I consumed a lot of calories and then suddenly...nada. I've stabilized my weight for the most part but my energy levels are off and I feel weak.
Good news in the stupid evil splint in my mouth is slated to come out in a couple days. Then I should be able to eat mashed potatoes and the like. I need that bad.
I also need some feeling back in my face and I 'd like to be able to close my mouth which I am concerned my lips won't be touching.
I'm hoping I didn't trade one set of problems for another for the price of missing work, discomfort and surgery....
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Hey Tom2,
So glad you're healing, but I'm sorry you're not really feeling any better.
Hang in there, and I hope having the splint out makes a world of difference for the better!
If you're looking to increase the caloric value of mashed potatoes...using only heavy cream tastes like an oil slick, but I think half and half tastes really good. Also butter. Or ghee, or REFINED coconut oil (it doesn't taste like coconut, I promise). I'm obviously not a doctor, but assuming you don't have any issues with high blood pressure, your kidneys, etc.--a hefty does of salt in the potatoes might make you feel a little less weak.
Take care, Tom2.
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Hey Tom2, great to hear from you. Please keep us posted on the post op appointment and let us know when you lose that splint. I bet that is going to make a huge difference. I have been eating scrambled eggs and that seems to be a great nutritional option for me. I know I have been craving protein.
Your lip issue may all be related to swelling and the splint. How is your swelling?
Peace and healing, Nancy
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ITS OUT ITS OUT ITS OUT!!!!!!
Thank God It Is Out.
Really. That was awful.
I see ortho tomorrow to work on the final work before getting the metal out of my mouth - hopefully by about September/October. We'll see if they can give me a general timeframe when I am there tomorrow.
I got home and tried to scrambled eggs but its didn't go well. I couldn't really tell where it was in my mouth and I made a mess so it was a shake for a meal.
Later I tried again with applesauce and I was able to eat it so I was pretty flippin' happy. Dinner included cottage cheese.
Breakfast today was farina and lunch was some spaghetti o's. I'm supplementing with the shakes but so damn happy I am eating food!
Speaking is still tough and my left TMJ is sore and the reason I can't yet open past one finger wide. Still missing feeling in parts of my face and inside my mouth.
So, I am sooooo happy to have the splint out but there is still a lot of recovering to do but without the splint it should be much less stressful and the time should pass faster.
Hated that splint......
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Did I mention that I hated the splint?
I did hate that splint.
Seriously. Hated. It.
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Did I mention that I hated the splint?
I did hate that splint.
Seriously. Hated. It.
I had one for 8 weeks.
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Out damned splint!
yay!
Things will start getting much better and I bet faster than you will expect.
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Plasko...... I feel for you. 8 Weeks is brutal. My gag reflex which is over active made it worse on me but I think even w/o that that splint thing is tough.
NStich - I'm hoping !!!
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So ortho removed the surgical wires - yay!
Several hours now after new wires and bands put in my left TMJ is feeling better and I am now opening past one finger wide for the first time.
Progress. So with this progress my biggest concerns remain my lips not touching and the lack of feeling in parts of my face.....
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What have your orthodontist and surgeon said about your lips not meeting?
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Both say give it time, things have to heal and muscles have to get used to working again.
I need results now. Patience isn't my strong suit.
My lips spent so many years forming and holding around bad teeth that I fear I may be left with some level of incompetence but we'll see.... It is better than it was a few weeks ago.
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Plasko...... I feel for you. 8 Weeks is brutal. My gag reflex which is over active made it worse on me but I think even w/o that that splint thing is tough.
NStich - I'm hoping !!!
I don't know how big your splint was. I don't think mine was any bigger than my current upper retainer, although definitely more offset from the roof the of mouth compared to the retainer. So food would get stuck there from time to time. It didn't bother me too much. I even ate steak with it.
If you hated the splint, how will you manage with the retainers (they are not dissimilar).
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The retainers my ortho gives out that I have seen look like invisalign retainers. They just go on the teeth.
The retainers you mention I have seen but are thinner across the roof of the mouth than was the splint I had. I filled up the whole top curvature of the roof of my mouth and went far, far back.
Did anyone have a hard time talking again???
I having to, it feels like, relearn how to use my jaw and lips to talk again. I'm talking and can be understood but I sound a bit impaired still.
I blame it on the new jaw position, law of range of motion on the jaw muscles, the lip incompetence and the numbness in my face.
God, I hope this all settles down. I'm told it will but the not knowing and the struggling with it each day is a real PIA.
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I think you mean Essix retainers which look like Invisalign trays. I can't user them because of bruxism. Ortho said I'd destroy them in a couple of months.