jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: Elyuu on May 02, 2015, 09:37:20 AM
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(I'll continue to edit/modify this thread as I go - Treat it as a mini reference/diary for those who may be able to find useful information to help them)
Update - I'm definitely considering Jaw surgery, and looking to begin consultations within the next month or 2. Now I'm seeking advice and suggestions on procedures to have.
Anyone in the London, UK area - If you have any advice for surgeons to see, I'd greatly appreciate it! Also open to the suggestions of going abroad into Europe.
Thank you!
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Hi guys.
I'm a long time lurker here. I think I've made this thread about 4-5 times now before deleting it.
I'm in my mid 20s and seeking advice on what to do next. I say that because a few years ago, I had Sliding Genio done, and thought that was good enough. After the healing, I realised that I didn't achieve the profile I was hoping for, and my jaw + jawline was pretty much non-existent.
I will be consulting with maxfac surgeons within the next month or two.
I guess my biggest worry is, having had surgery done previously on my chin, is my situation something that can be worked around for jaw surgery? I'm in no rush and want to do it properly this time with braces, surgery and post-op. Do my pictures look like something that can be worked on? And what surgeries would benefit my case?
Thanks for taking the time to look, read and reply. I'm trying to keep my outlook positive! I'll update any consultations I have in the near future, here!
List of things I see wrong with the lower half of my face -
1. Roundish shape from the front/Lack of definition.
2. From the side/profile, my jaw line is receding and lacking. (Maybe too high also?)
3. Chin is bent and still lacking somewhat, even after Sliding Genio.
Pictures -
(http://i.imgur.com/QMqFfsp.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/lf8AE2S.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/n85yamM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yjdLOZZ.jpg)
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You might not be completely happy with your look but frankly a lot of people are not in today's looks based society.
So - firstly - if I saw you, you would seem like another dude to me. You don't stand out as being in obvious need of anything.
Now, for the gains you may achieve - are you really willing to have your skull cut and moved around with all the associated recovery and risks of such surgeries???
If I were you, I'd focus my energies elsewhere.
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You mention you had a sliding bsso. Any before pics? Any X-rays?
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You might not be completely happy with your look but frankly a lot of people are not in today's looks based society.
So - firstly - if I saw you, you would seem like another dude to me. You don't stand out as being in obvious need of anything.
Now, for the gains you may achieve - are you really willing to have your skull cut and moved around with all the associated recovery and risks of such surgeries???
If I were you, I'd focus my energies elsewhere.
That's fair advice and I thank you for it.
Aesthetically, I did feel like my jawline was rather shapeless, a bit high from the side and lacking any sort of definition all round.
In practical terms, I do have an overbite when my teeth are together.
I took some photos whilst trying to hold as natural as a position I could (Excuse the bed hair!) -
(http://i.imgur.com/aydtdiL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5nvrtDi.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GooON8N.jpg)
Thank you for your reply!
You mention you had a sliding bsso. Any before pics? Any X-rays?
Ah, I should! I'll have a dig for them in my filing storage and see if I can get them uploaded here. I don't have a scanner though.
Thank you for your reply!
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ultimately only you can answer this question. Do you need it? no, would you most likely look better if you got it? yes
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You might not be completely happy with your look but frankly a lot of people are not in today's looks based society.
So - firstly - if I saw you, you would seem like another dude to me. You don't stand out as being in obvious need of anything.
Now, for the gains you may achieve - are you really willing to have your skull cut and moved around with all the associated recovery and risks of such surgeries???
If I were you, I'd focus my energies elsewhere.
Why bother trying to lose weight... pleanty of people are overweight in today's society right.
Sure there are limitations to what can be done with surgery but even small changes can significantly improve someone's quality of life.
The recovery is absolutely worth it, assuming the result is good.
OP yes you should have jaw surgery and jaw angle implants that also augment the jawline. Aditionally, either implants or osteotomy to give definition to the cheekbones.
To hell with telling people they are fine and to get on with their lives, nobody wants to be destined for mediocrity.
Just make sure you find a good surgeon, you can't take the risk on a no name.
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Why bother trying to lose weight... pleanty of people are overweight in today's society right.
Sure there are limitations to what can be done with surgery but even small changes can significantly improve someone's quality of life.
The recovery is absolutely worth it, assuming the result is good.
OP yes you should have jaw surgery and jaw angle implants that also augment the jawline. Aditionally, either implants or osteotomy to give definition to the cheekbones.
To hell with telling people they are fine and to get on with their lives, nobody wants to be destined for mediocrity.
Just make sure you find a good surgeon, you can't take the risk on a no name.
Are you seriously comparing losing weight and jaw surgery? That is foolish. One requires exercise and diet modification in most cases - one requires multiple incisions in your skin/mouth and every other risk and possible short term/long term risk associated with surgery.
And please note that you even qualified the benefit "assuming the result is good".
This is a big surgery. One should not be so quick to dismiss the risks.
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You might not be completely happy with your look but frankly a lot of people are not in today's looks based society.
Who cares whether a lot of people are or aren't happy with their looks? It's a personal thing.
OP - I think truthfully, you could benefit from jaw surgery. Whether you want it or not is down to you.
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Are you seriously comparing losing weight and jaw surgery? That is foolish. One requires exercise and diet modification in most cases - one requires multiple incisions in your skin/mouth and every other risk and possible short term/long term risk associated with surgery.
And please note that you even qualified the benefit "assuming the result is good".
This is a big surgery. One should not be so quick to dismiss the risks.
Yeah, but you didn't give any specific feedback on his aesthetic concerns. Saying something like "well, it's not like it's uncommon for people to be unhappy with their appearance nowadays, so on that basis you should just concentrate on something else" probably isn't what he came here to find out.
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Yeah, but you didn't give any specific feedback on his aesthetic concerns. Saying something like "well, it's not like it's uncommon for people to be unhappy with their appearance nowadays, so on that basis you should just concentrate on something else" probably isn't what he came here to find out.
Point taken. And I understand it is important. But anyone, OP or other, if they don't really, really medically need the surgery, I would caution running on the emotions and feelings about looks driving the decision.
I say that because I have seen more than a few pictures on here of people looking at very serious surgeries to correct conditions that while being important to them -may not be the level of concern warranting these surgeries.
In the end, we all offer our thoughts to help someone who is having feelings similar to our own current or past feelings or situations.
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I can tell right now from the morphology face. If you don't have sleep apnea now, you will most certainly develop it as an adult. You have that extremely retrusive profile.
So, yeah you need a jaw surgeon who is ethical most likely need a CCW rotation to really open up that airway. Get a ceph and ask the surgeon what your airway is. If it's a lot less than 12 mm (mine is 4 which is terrible) you're candidate for this surgery. So you actually need the surgery to optimize your health.
Now, cosmetically it will help. But there will be some other issues, your upper lip will become more protrusive. so while your lower jaw will be more defined you may develop a bit of that chimp look. But only minimally.
Don't get extractions under any circumstances.
f**k i'm so good at this now. I'm gonna sign of Dr. Lazlo (Maxillofacial Diagnostician and Pathologist) from now on.
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I would also be wondering about sleep apnea in the future. The OP mentioned he had a sliding genioplasty which makes one wonder even more about airway dimensions.
My facial profile is similar but overall more projected. I am still considering surgery for sleep alone as I think it is such a crucial overlooked key to good health and longevity.
post a ceph!
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I would also be wondering about sleep apnea in the future. The OP mentioned he had a sliding genioplasty which makes one wonder even more about airway dimensions.
My facial profile is similar but overall more projected. I am still considering surgery for sleep alone as I think it is such a crucial overlooked key to good health and longevity.
post a ceph!
very true, that's one of the number one reasons to get this surgery.
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I can tell right now from the morphology face. If you don't have sleep apnea now, you will most certainly develop it as an adult. You have that extremely retrusive profile.
So, yeah you need a jaw surgeon who is ethical most likely need a CCW rotation to really open up that airway. Get a ceph and ask the surgeon what your airway is. If it's a lot less than 12 mm (mine is 4 which is terrible) you're candidate for this surgery. So you actually need the surgery to optimize your health.
Now, cosmetically it will help. But there will be some other issues, your upper lip will become more protrusive. so while your lower jaw will be more defined you may develop a bit of that chimp look. But only minimally.
Don't get extractions under any circumstances.
f**k i'm so good at this now. I'm gonna sign of Dr. Lazlo (Maxillofacial Diagnostician and Pathologist) from now on.
how consistent are cephs from one day to the next?
like does it matter how your allergies are, or what position you are standing in (your posture)??
how easy is it to get a ceph? can I just tell my gp I think I may have sleep apnea?
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Sleep apnea and stress are equally number 1 killers. Nothing is more important than breathing.
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@needagameplan - go to a high end orthodontist office for a consult and they might do a ceph for free. That's what I did lol
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s**t, that's AFTER SG? Dude, if you don't have massive problems already consider yourself EXTREMELY lucky. You need double jaw surgery for health reasons and don't wait a decade. I was told when I was 20 that I needed jaw surgery (by a family friend even!). My parents talked me out of it but everything the dentist said would happen happened and it sucks monkey balls. Here I am a decade later with those problems and still need to do the surgery! Your only hesitation should be making sure you get the right one done. You've already had the wrong one done once, don't repeat that mistake. There's a number of surgeon names around the board here to consider but basically, anyone who's doing several jaw surgeries a week should do. We can all tell you what it's going to be, though, 13mm BSSO + LF1 + CCW rotation. As others said, your mouth might look a little too full but it should be an overall aesthetic win for you. Just prepare yourself and don't do extractions as Lazlo said.
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Thanks everyone for your replies, I respect all your opinions and appreciate you taking the time.
I guess I should really change my Subject as I'm fairly adamant that I'll be pursuing some sort of Jaw Surgery and I'm looking for suggestions and advice on what procedures would aid my cause.
For anyone wondering, I'm in England and will be hoping to consult with Mr. Paul Johnson and Mr. Manolis Heliotis. I thought about Henri Thuau but I've heard the budget can be a little tight with him. Nonetheless, if, after seeing the first two, I don't feel confident, I will seek a third opinion.
Of course, any other suggestions, I'd love to know that are within Europe.
Thank you!
I can tell right now from the morphology face. If you don't have sleep apnea now, you will most certainly develop it as an adult. You have that extremely retrusive profile.
So, yeah you need a jaw surgeon who is ethical most likely need a CCW rotation to really open up that airway. Get a ceph and ask the surgeon what your airway is. If it's a lot less than 12 mm (mine is 4 which is terrible) you're candidate for this surgery. So you actually need the surgery to optimize your health.
Now, cosmetically it will help. But there will be some other issues, your upper lip will become more protrusive. so while your lower jaw will be more defined you may develop a bit of that chimp look. But only minimally.
Don't get extractions under any circumstances.
f**k i'm so good at this now. I'm gonna sign of Dr. Lazlo (Maxillofacial Diagnostician and Pathologist) from now on.
Haha, as a lurker of this forum, I do value your opinion greatly as you do seem to bring a wealth of knowledge here, thank you for that, Dr. Lazlo. ;)
I'm not entirely sure where to get a ceph done. When I consult with a maxfac surgeon, would I be able to have done with them? Or should I see an orthodontist about it?
I've been searching up on CCW rotation as that's something I've seen around here but not really grasped or understood yet.
I will avoid extractions, as you have mentioned. I'd like to not touch the upper half of my face, which I quite like and only feel that it's my jawline, bite and lower half that could really do with some help.
Thank you again.
Edit - I actually wanted your opinion on something - Since I've had previous SG done, would this need to be worked on "surgically" or "corrected" before I can have actual surgical jaw procedures done?
I'm asking since I feel I may likely be needing the chin to be worked on in some way for my profile improvement.
I would also be wondering about sleep apnea in the future. The OP mentioned he had a sliding genioplasty which makes one wonder even more about airway dimensions.
My facial profile is similar but overall more projected. I am still considering surgery for sleep alone as I think it is such a crucial overlooked key to good health and longevity.
post a ceph!
Have you thought of going to a consultation yourself with a surgeon to see if you could benefit from it? If my sleep became interrupted, I'd absolutely consider it.
I'll certainly try and get a ceph, soon as I figure out the best way to do so! Either requesting it from my consultations or maybe my dentist/orthodontist!
Thank you.
s**t, that's AFTER SG? Dude, if you don't have massive problems already consider yourself EXTREMELY lucky. You need double jaw surgery for health reasons and don't wait a decade. I was told when I was 20 that I needed jaw surgery (by a family friend even!). My parents talked me out of it but everything the dentist said would happen happened and it sucks monkey balls. Here I am a decade later with those problems and still need to do the surgery! Your only hesitation should be making sure you get the right one done. You've already had the wrong one done once, don't repeat that mistake. There's a number of surgeon names around the board here to consider but basically, anyone who's doing several jaw surgeries a week should do. We can all tell you what it's going to be, though, 13mm BSSO + LF1 + CCW rotation. As others said, your mouth might look a little too full but it should be an overall aesthetic win for you. Just prepare yourself and don't do extractions as Lazlo said.
I know, man. SG was a rookie mistake and I'll certainly not be rushing into it like I did before. I'm sorry that you went through what you did, I hope that your journey towards improving your health with jaw surgery take steps in the right direction. I will join you on that journey!
I like your call out - 13mm BSSO + LF1 + CCW. Though, I'm still unsure what CCW is, if you're willing to expand a little on that, I'd greatly appreciate it. No worries if you can't, I'll likely be researching it!
Thank you.
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CCW = counter-clockwise rotation. It'll make sense once you have a ceph but basically they're going to rotate your maxilla down. So the back will come down further than the front. That way the angle of the mandible will become less steep and, as a side bonus, you'll breath better because your sinus cavity will increase in size. Increased support behind the nose will also help. That 13mm recommendation could change, just approximate. Might be 10mm, maybe 12mm. All pretty close. The maxilla will move to match it. That's just the most they can do. Your SG may need revision. If it was just a few mm before, then it's probably perfect where it is. If your surgeon was trying to fix a weak chin, he may have been really aggressive and done something like 10mm, in which case it'll need to be reduced.
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I'll just add, picking a surgeon isn't really that complicated. There's like one body of research about what's known about jaw surgery. Some guys forget the details. Some don't keep up. Some do but they're simply out of practice, like a sculpter who hasn't practiced in a while. These problems can all be solved by finding someone who's making it a big part of their practice. Look for someone who's operating a few times a week, doing mostly jaw surgeries. There will be differences of opinion. Other than that, someone ideally close to home, cheap, personality you like, etc are factors. Studies show ideal age for a surgeon is 50 and you want 5 years of follow up ideally. You have several good options in the UK.
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The surgery made my breathing much better.
Sleep apnea did become a problem for me.
Also - if your overbite just can't be corrected the surgery may be the only way to fix it.
Just know what you are proposing. I for one found it easy to talk about a 6 month recovery but am having a hard time dealing with such day by day and mushy meal by mushy meal..... Gawd I want a hamburger....
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Thanks everyone for your replies, I respect all your opinions and appreciate you taking the time.
I guess I should really change my Subject as I'm fairly adamant that I'll be pursuing some sort of Jaw Surgery and I'm looking for suggestions and advice on what procedures would aid my cause.
For anyone wondering, I'm in England and will be hoping to consult with Mr. Paul Johnson and Mr. Manolis Heliotis. I thought about Henri Thuau but I've heard the budget can be a little tight with him. Nonetheless, if, after seeing the first two, I don't feel confident, I will seek a third opinion.
Of course, any other suggestions, I'd love to know that are within Europe.
Thank you!
Haha, as a lurker of this forum, I do value your opinion greatly as you do seem to bring a wealth of knowledge here, thank you for that, Dr. Lazlo. ;)
I'm not entirely sure where to get a ceph done. When I consult with a maxfac surgeon, would I be able to have done with them? Or should I see an orthodontist about it?
I've been searching up on CCW rotation as that's something I've seen around here but not really grasped or understood yet.
I will avoid extractions, as you have mentioned. I'd like to not touch the upper half of my face, which I quite like and only feel that it's my jawline, bite and lower half that could really do with some help.
Thank you again.
Edit - I actually wanted your opinion on something - Since I've had previous SG done, would this need to be worked on "surgically" or "corrected" before I can have actual surgical jaw procedures done?
I'm asking since I feel I may likely be needing the chin to be worked on in some way for my profile improvement.
Have you thought of going to a consultation yourself with a surgeon to see if you could benefit from it? If my sleep became interrupted, I'd absolutely consider it.
I'll certainly try and get a ceph, soon as I figure out the best way to do so! Either requesting it from my consultations or maybe my dentist/orthodontist!
Thank you.
I know, man. SG was a rookie mistake and I'll certainly not be rushing into it like I did before. I'm sorry that you went through what you did, I hope that your journey towards improving your health with jaw surgery take steps in the right direction. I will join you on that journey!
I like your call out - 13mm BSSO + LF1 + CCW. Though, I'm still unsure what CCW is, if you're willing to expand a little on that, I'd greatly appreciate it. No worries if you can't, I'll likely be researching it!
Thank you.
f**k the central London docs, all they have going for them is location.
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it depends what you prefer. To have damaged nerves forever (relatively high risk) and little better look or just to accept this and be happy your nerves are fine.
Sometimes hypoasthesia / parasthesia / both is more annyoing than slight imperfection on face....
your choice :)
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it depends what you prefer. To have damaged nerves forever (relatively high risk) and little better look or just to accept this and be happy your nerves are fine.
Sometimes hypoasthesia / parasthesia / both is more annyoing than slight imperfection on face....
your choice :)
He does not have an "imperfection". He has a dentofacial deformity. Definitely worth fixing. You're not speaking from at the perspective of someone who has undergone jaw surgery. You're fixated on the nerve damage, which in your case was caused by overlooked trauma, but orthognathic surgery nerve damage is not like what you have. Unless it's a total loss, most people don't notice it after a year or two. Many don't have any perceptible nerve damage.
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I think you look very good. In my opinion, it's not worth risking a wider, more blown-out nasal base. I think you should just get a sliding genioplasty with a skilled surgeon.
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Hey man, until I get the surgery myself I can't really say whether the surgery is worth it or not. But don't worry, I'm going for the full blown tri-max so my knees are gonna be shaking. Now if only Dr. Sinn would hurry up and give me a friggin surgery date!
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well he most likely has the beginning stages of sleep apnea, judging by his profile. so this alone is worth getting JS, because it usually gets worse as time goes on.
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hi..my face is horrible..short face syndrome, cant show my upper teeth when smiling...what kind of operation would help me and best surgeon in Italy?please HELP
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