jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: Lazlo on July 30, 2015, 06:38:37 PM
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Okay so obviously not directly related to Jaw surgery, but several people have mentioned a procedure called a "canthopexy" which they've gotten while they've had some sort of malar orbital rim type work done.
The whole issue of eyes is interesting because I find that one thing that makes people look old is a degree of "ptosis" I think this means a slackening of the muscles around the eyes? And the eyes protrude more and look strained. I find this in my own photos and you'll notice every celebrity squints a little when being photographed and I find this creates the illusion of sleeker more almond shaped eyes, lifts the cheek and avoids that ptosis look.
I'm not talking about a blepharoplasty or that type of thing, but what can be done for the eyes?
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i have this what you describe under 'ptosis'. Ortho told me that (at least in my case) this is a school textbook sign of recessed maxilla. However, he did not tell me whether lefortI alone can solve or significantly improve situation.
A lf1 will do absolutely nothing. Neither will a high lf1. The only thing that a high lf1 will do is give you a higher chance of Infraorbital nerve damage. Been there, done that.
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Unfortunately it looks like most eye procedures in the vein of canthoplasty/canthopexy will yield unsightly scars. Personally I would want the horizontal length of my eyes increased by 1-2 mm (perhaps not required, might just be a neurosis), and the spacing by exactly 4.5 mm (I've managed to calculate the ideal).
How do your eyes look, Lazlo? Care to show us an image? Perhaps it isn't as bad as you think it is.
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I've seen a number of cases where a LF1 actually did improve the under eye area. It perplexed me too. There's two ways it happens I think. First, the shelf created by the LeFort provides some support for the tissue above. Second, more significantly, the MMA creates more volume in the face stretching all the skin around it. Eyes... there's no winning it I think. I've got a post coming but I think augmentation some day is a reasonable approach here. I don't see why they can't do it with BMP2 today even, just no one has tried it. Go under eye and avoid the whole mid-face mess of muscles and nerves. Even the modified LeFort 3 avoids some of the critical region btw, this is a very hard problem to solve otherwise.
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Here's Clooney for comparison.
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God this is depressing. I mean yeah my photo is s**t, but why does it seem like Clooney's eyes are so much wider apart? Is it just because they are?
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What is your IPD?
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i dunno, why? what is your assessment do my eyes look too close together?
I think (and this may be totally a false recollection) that my IPD is 55mm. But I'll get it taken again soon.
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Like all good looking eyes, his are almond shaped and horizontally wide. I wouldn't say they are wide set however.
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How the hell do you actually move the eyes wider apart? I mean this is an astonishing issue.
that said, I believe this to be the holy grail.
If you look on the other thread about eyes, all the guys who had amazing everything else: jaws, hair, smiles, noses etc. still got taken down like 4 notches cause of terribly close set eyes.
Not a cue to start posting photographs of guys with close set eyes who look good. Let's stay on topic. We say a face can be "brought together" by jaw surgery or a good nose job? Well a great face can be CREATED by setting the eyes at an appropriate distance --even in the absence of anything else I say!!!
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Like all good looking eyes, his are almond shaped and horizontally wide. I wouldn't say they are wide set however.
yah and what about mine?
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The ideal eye distance is said to be one eye inbetween (I read somewhere, don't know if that's true) yours seem to have that distance, too. But what I see is, that you have a very wide nose bridge, creating the effect of close set eyes. Most people have some space between eyes and nose bridge.
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The distance between your eyes are fine. How close set they are is determined more on the distance from each eye to the upper lip. This ratio tells you if your face is proportionate. Everyone's got a different sized head so it's dumb to put a set number on the distance if you don't measure the rest of the face to it.
Anyhow, my only concern is the "frame" of your orbits. I think the ZO will help to pull this area up to have a better shape.
Could you explain this? I mean the distance from each eye to the upper lip must be the same, since it's a vertical meassure and eyes are normally in the same line. Or do I get this wrong.
I need to meassure this.
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What the last 2 posters said. Also the supra orbital shape is extremely important, especially in men.
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Also the supra orbital shape is extremely important, especially in men.
This is a super important feature that most people aren't even aware of. A strong supraorbital ridge is the key to those fabled squinty and hooded eyes that pretty much all good looking males have. Unfortunately the options for fixing that don't seem all that great.
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The supra orbital ridge is a horizontal- forward grown feature. Nearly all people that have this have an acute orbital angle (squint eyes). That's why most models look so good even with a bit of a recessed midface. Actually, if you look at a lot of models, the supra ridge protrudes the most and if they have strong cheekbones; they're set (male and females).
OMG This means after a Lefort 3 (+Chin+ZO+Oto+Cantho+Rhino) I will be good-looking. D:
Oh, and thanks for explaining. :)
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Lol! You're kidding right? A lf3 wont guarantee anything... if anything, it just makes you look less abnormal if you have a deficiency. And the supra orbital ridge has nothing to do with a zo, lf3, etc. You would need to advance through a very risky osteo (exposing the brain..risk of going blind...) that no sane surgeon would ever offer to do on a decent to normal looking patient. And even if they did offer; you got 100k or more laying around? If so, find a surgeon who will do it for you and report back.
Lol, no. I meant that my supra orbital ridge seems to be the only thing that's alright and so with a combination of other risky osteotomies, I'll become the model I always deserved to be. :3
But no jk, Model is utopian. :D I think the only thing they'd be willing to do is normal LF I. But, I'll get the other procedures done too.
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Lol, no. I meant that my supra orbital ridge seems to be the only thing that's alright and so with a combination of other risky osteotomies, I'll become the model I always deserved to be. :3
But no jk, Model is utopian. :D I think the only thing they'd be willing to do is normal LF I. But, I'll get the other procedures done too.
From (hazy) memory, your narrow lower third was the only thing that seemed off. The other thirds looks fine.
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From (hazy) memory, your narrow lower third was the only thing that seemed off. The other thirds looks fine.
Well my middle third kinda isn't. Like it's really flat, Idk. Anyway I want to get the frame right and have the others tooto make it more pleasant looking. I'm all about the details.
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This is a super important feature that most people aren't even aware of. A strong supraorbital ridge is the key to those fabled squinty and hooded eyes that pretty much all good looking males have. Unfortunately the options for fixing that don't seem all that great.
I know 2 guys. One has a rather small skull, but a strong brow ridge, forehead overhanging his eyes, horizontally wide, vertically narrow eyes. No other outstanding features. But that feature alone makes him almost handsome (and who knows, he probably was when he was younger).
The other guy has a very wide big head, big round forehead. His brow ridge, forehead dominate his eyes. No other outstanding features (OK, I think he's hiding massive cheekbones under some of that facial fat). His eyes are quite round and big for a man. Neither has strong jaws or an ante face. Both have flat looking infraorbital rims. But both look good thanks to that one feature - supraorbital rims, forehead. It can really make a man's face good looking all on its own. Oh, the only other thing they have in common is a short upper lip.
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Okay so my eye distance is good? What can be done for suborbital ridge? I have a very strong pronounced brow that comes out quite a bit. So what's wrong? The shape?
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Okay so my eye distance is good? What can be done for suborbital ridge? I have a very strong pronounced brow that comes out quite a bit. So what's wrong? The shape?
That's normally what you want. Have you posted your pics anywhere?
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Yeah could someone give me some pics and explain what a good suborbital rim looks like?
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Yeah could someone give me some pics and explain what a good suborbital rim looks like?
Look at any model (David Gandy for example). You want that hooded look where the upper eyelid doesn't show too much. I can show you a bad pic of myself for comparison.
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Look at any model (David Gandy for example). You want that hooded look where the upper eyelid doesn't show too much. I can show you a bad pic of myself for comparison.
Absolutely is there an operation to achieve this?
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Absolutely is there an operation to achieve this?
Fat grafts or implants. 3D printed implants in particular seem promising. I believe HA is also used.
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My brow ridge is good but my under eye area is s**t so it doesn't really matter. It's how they compliment each other. Also my eyes are horizontally wide but droop in the corners cuz my zygos don't support it.
That's why it's key to have zygos/orbital rims that are closer to the eye ball. This creates the squinty look.
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can't you do a morph for my eyes 27f. You don't really love me. :'(
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Fat grafts or implants. 3D printed implants in particular seem promising. I believe HA is also used.
Deschamps-Braly and Ousterhout use MM. lyopholised cartilage implants by Sailer.
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Deschamps-Braly and Ousterhout use MM. lyopholised cartilage implants by Sailer.
what is MM?
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what is MM?
Methyl methacrylate. Very old material.
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ugh they still look kinda close to me and not like george clooney!!!!!!
i think actually my temples come out too much, can they be shaved down on the sides, but that wouldn't be good it would slacken the skin....
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Send some that are larger than 2k; not as cropped. I can't work with a tiny, super cropped pic.
I will 27F in a couple weeks. Let me shave my beard so you can see me in all my horror. xo
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ugh they still look kinda close to me and not like george clooney!!!!!!
i think actually my temples come out too much, can they be shaved down on the sides, but that wouldn't be good it would slacken the skin....
Yeah I have fat rounded temples. Maybe in the next life...
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I never understood Jacki O's appeal. She looked borderline retarded. Proof of the power of mass media. So Lazlo, your better option is to become a dictator and have everyone drone on how handsome you are. And then you will be.
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Every celebrity squints for photos. They know and use every trick in the book.
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Your eyes seem close together. As it's not a full photo, you can't be sure though. Clooney's eyes seem more almond shaped.. I don't think changing eye shape is possible. Though, if you could, I think that could go a long way. Almond shaped eyes are beautiful.
As for a doc telling someone he can make her look like Jackie, or anyone else, i would run the other way. I'm not sure what that's in reference to, but you can't do that. And geez... What a crazy - he's asking for negative feedback when he obv doesn't produce those results.
No it was in the context of telling her he could get her eyes as wide apart as Jackie O's --through a box osteotomy. I'm just wondering what that does to the nasal bridge?
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when people talk about brow ridge im pretty sure they mean the second picture.
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I've read that the procerus muscle in the nasion area can be reduced...though uncommon some surgeons do it. Perhaps that could give more brow definition without the need for augmenting the brow itself?
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< I mean to this reply, I really believe that being nicer makes us all more beautiful, what with the face being plastic n' all.
just saying.
http://iamlivingpositive.com/wp-content/uploads/401932_587328631284766_450128384_n.jpg
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another pic of my eyes actually click to see :-[ :
Assuming no lens distortion, yes, you have close-set eyes. Another thing is that you don't have a nice eyebrow shape. They're very full, bushy, and round. Look at the eyebrows on something like the Marquardt Masque. If I were you I'd look at getting mine shaped to be more like angular like that.
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Here's a friend of mine. What do you guys think of this guy's eyes? Like width, shape etc.
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Here's a friend of mine. What do you guys think of this guy's eyes? Like width, shape etc.
You know Fassbender? ;D
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You know Fassbender? ;D
Shut up dickface! Just tell me what you think of the eyes!
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Small masculine eyes. Not a model.
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ugh...what you guys aren't seeing is his eyes are too close together!
good advice facenit, I'll get my eyebrows done. I wish i knew where to go!!??
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ugh...what you guys aren't seeing is his eyes are too close together!
good advice facenit, I'll get my eyebrows done. I wish i knew where to go!!??
I vaguely heard that muscles responsible for raising the eyebrows may be weakened.
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Do you mean surgically or temporarily with Botox or Dysport?
I've heard of both methods.
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Plastic surgeons can usually point you to someone in your area who is good with male brows.
Or keep an eye out for well groomed brows and tactfully ask the guy who does his.
I like you you're a very well spoken woman. What's your story? Have you had surgery already?
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Are you going with Dr. Sinn? You're in Texas right?
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Here's a pic of another one of my friends. Should I change my eyebrows like his? What do you think of his eyes?
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Hhaha I'll send 5 bucks to the person who without googling can telel me where this line is from. Please do not cheat (cause I'm not gonna send 5 bucks anyway) but seriously don't cheat.
"His eyes! He has his father's eyes!"
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Let the pros analyze your face and determine the best brow shape for you.
Pretty eyes, but not liking the lower eyelid (again).
I don't get it.. what is it that you don't like about his lower eyelids?
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I don't get it.. what is it that you don't like about his lower eyelids?
I don't get it either. A lot of models (or even most of them from what I could tell from doing a quick Google search) have lower eyelids that look like that. There's something about Tom Hardy's eyes that gives him a bit of a femine look though (which I don't really understand since he's pretty masculine looking in general).
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I don't get it either. A lot of models (or even most of them from what I could tell from doing a quick Google search) have lower eyelids that look like that. There's something about Tom Hardy's eyes that gives him a bit of a femine look though (which I don't really understand since he's pretty masculine looking in general).
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"Hi I'm Gregor Samsa and I know everything about all the celebrities and know exactly what they look at from their eye shape." Go read more US magazine and have Tom Hardy f**k you up the ass while he wanks you off!
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Tom Hardy is currently #1 on IMDB's STARmeter ranking so it's not like he's an unknown actor. ;D
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Did we get an answer to the quote? I'm just gonna throw it out there, Star Wars?
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It really is all about the eyes:
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=uehoAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA969&lpg=PA969&dq=infraorbital+rim+advancement&source=bl&ots=MlPJolT87d&sig=vJ-Ij0o0L6YuUaHi2mXlSh4tO4I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC4Q6AEwBGoVChMIo53xsuj4xgIVgdimCh2wbQX6#v=onepage&q=infraorbital%20rim%20advancement&f=false
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NO it's Rosemary's Baby.
I sort of misrepresented the quote. Some says: "His eyes" and then we hear another character say "He has his father's eyes." And the father is of course Satan.
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Naturally. Does Satan have pretty eyes?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv3p8kIyqLI
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Wow, this movie is old school! Lazlo, how old are you??
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Wow, this movie is old school! Lazlo, how old are you??
I'm 72 years old. I know a little old to be so vain, but so it goes! I was around when this film first came out! It was fantastic you really should watch it.
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And you still like boobies?
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Yeah I have fat rounded temples. Maybe in the next life...
Is there any scope for reshaping this in the end?