jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => General Chat => Topic started by: RedLips on October 12, 2015, 04:42:32 PM
-
Hi, all. I'm new to this forum, though I've been a lurker for a while. I want to start off by saying that I'm very supportive of all of you who are pursuing jaw surgery here, but my budget and lifestyle will not accommodate any plastic surgery at this time. I'm trying to come to terms with my appearance without surgery, if that's possible. I also have body dysmorphic disorder and tons of anxiety issues (so please be sensitive/patient with me here, if possible.)
My primary concern is my long midface. (I also have a slightly retruded chin and a gummy smile, but the midface is my biggest issues.)
I guess I want this post to be about proving (mostly to myself) that long faces can still be beautiful. By that, I am referring to the midface ratio, particularly the distance between the eyes in relation to the distance between the eyes and mouth. The "ideal" ratio is when the interpupillary distance (distance between pupils) matches the distance between the pupil and the line where the lip splits. The "acceptable" ratio is when the distance between the eyes and lips matches the distance between the outer irises. People who don't fit either ratio are generally regarded as unattractive on a basic subconscious level. (Think Sarah Jessica Parker or Lily Tomlin.)
I fit the "acceptable" ratio in most pictures, but in some (mostly close-up selfies) I do not fit either ratio. This gives me intense anxiety. I don't fit the Marquardt beauty mask either. But can I still have a pretty enough face? I don't think I'm hideous. But are my measurements still acceptable?
Here are some famous people (who are generally deemed beautiful, or at least attractive enough) who fit only the acceptable and not the ideal ratios:
- Gisele Bundchen
- Liv Tyler
- Bella Hadid
- Dichen Lachman
- Elize Ryd (Swedish popstar)
- Kat von D
- Ashley Tisdale
- Kate Beckinsale
- Jen Selter (Instagram fitness star)
- Celine Dion
- Lady Gaga
People who generally don't fit either ratio at all:
- Sandra Oh
- Sarah Jessica Parker
- Lily Tomlin
- Courtney Lundquist (Actually, she fits SOMETIMES, kind of like me. And I find her to be super gorgeous.)
Thoughts? Can long midfaces still be very pretty? Could it be possible that I'm attractive too even though I don't meet the ratios?
-
You can't determine attractiveness by only judging one criterium - in this case the midface ratio. Other things, like soft tissue quality / features are important.
Regarding your own attractiveness, I think if you are past puberty you already know whether or not you are attractive as that is usually determinded by how members of the opposite sex relate to you.
-
Well, this is me with my long midface:
http://imgur.com/AQkeg0F
http://imgur.com/esJssTs
http://imgur.com/DzqhXNX
I usually wear glasses to disguise the length.
-
I know saying this won't change much because im also suffering from BDD but worrying about this isn't going to help anything and you need to find something to keep you occupied and not thinking about it. That being said, as a man i think your face isnt long enough to be concerned and if you want more male attention start doing squats and anything you can to make your ass bigger lol
-
A few more things: most cameras make ones face seem longer as do some mirrors and comparing your self to others on the Internet usually winds up you comparing your worst to their best.
-
Thank you for your answers.
My midface looks pretty normal in pics like the one I posted, but it's long-looking in others. I'm just too scared to post them online for everyone.
-
Doesn't look overly long to me. I'd say you are pretty attractive, nice features and hair (I'm whiteknighting you right now)
She has a bit of dimpling on the chin when keeping her mouth closed - that's usually indicative of LFS. But it isn't severe and I agree with you that OP looks good.
And damn, notrain I never thought about that before, brutal.. I guess that's how I ended up here.
I didn't intend to ruin anyone's day.
FWIW I can maybe sort of make up for it: Jaw surgery won't change anything about that statement.
-
NoTrain, does that mean I have LFS?? How do I fix it without surgery?
-
What exactly is chin dimpling? Is that only in LFS patients?
I never snored or breathed through my mouth as a child, though.
-
Are these chin dimples?
http://imgur.com/GB0OMex
http://imgur.com/ZupGZzg
http://imgur.com/9FkxhHm
-
Miss J said I had slight adenoid, whatever that means.
-
Wait, why is notrain's comment harsh? I mean, I get a good amount of male attention. I just hate my own face
-
What exactly is chin dimpling?
It means you have to flex/strain your mentalis muscle to fully close your mouth / keep it closed.
This is visible on your chin (you can see the muscle flexing/straining). It's mild though - that's probably what MissJ meant.
-
How do I fix the chin dimpling?
-
Now I'm obsessing about straining my chin to keep my mouth closed... Is there a way to strengthen the muscles? Are there celebs who have this and are still pretty?
-
Jaw surgery in some circumstances can make a person look more attractive. Ex. fixing underbite or recessed jaw. people have to be realistic though.
Also who's missJ ?
To OP I wouldn't get jaw surgery if I were you. Unless you have some functional issue.
-
:(
It's my only hope
I had my jaw surgery some time ago and I can honestly tell you that if you indeed go through with it with the expectations you shared with me via PM you will be:
- severely disappointed
- significantly poorer
-
YOU'RE HOT. And I have ridiculously high standards. What every little quirks you have make you look unique (this is not true for anyone, but it's true for you). Objectively, you're hot. Workout and develop a killer (slim, not fat ass) body like a UFC ring girl --you know the ones that hold the title cards. And get the hell off this forum. There are as many women with the sluthate syndrome as there are men. You have what is known as a slight lip incompetence --big deal, you're oveerall hot, not enough to warrant jaw surgery. end of discussion.
-
I don't know Turmerican, but (as a straight mid-twenties American female) I like the top picture of the jaw better. It's very handsome.
-
I'd agree with the second point, certainly. What expectations did I share with you? I'm looking for a longer, more angular face and better midface support - could this not be achieved surgically?
You told me your motivation for surgery was to increase your dating success. The question is not if what I quoted above can be achieved surgically (it more or less can) but whether this will do anything WRT getting women. All I'm saying is: it won't.
-
You don't have a long mid-face. Your face isn't really adenoid either. Slight chin strain is not that obvious. If you have no functional, TMJ or bite issues, stop investigating this stuff. Stop visiting this site. Step away from the computer. Go live your life, seek help for your BDD/anxiety/self-worth or continue it. All your measuring and ideal talk in your original post is a symptom of it. It's BS. You don't have long mid-face. You're intense anxiety wouldn't go away even if you somehow altered your face in a way to fit the picture you have in your head of how your face should look. Just good old BDD.
I'm genuinely sorry if I come off as harsh. I so have personal experience with this area and I assure you, it is a major waste of your time to be thinking about this stuff and only fuels your disorder.
-
I'm sure you know alot about aesthetics but it strikes me as strange as to why you think making a face objectively more attractive (closer to divine proportions) wouldn't increase it's appeal.
It is funny how often people talk about looks not mattering on a jaw surgery forum of all places! :-X
My point wasn't that "looks don't matter", they do. It's just that you can't increase your inherent attractiveness with jaw surgery in such a way that it would make a discernible difference in your day to day life - except for the severely deformed (which neither you nor I are / were).
More precisely: You won't "get" a girl after jaw surgery that you couldn't have gotten before jaw surgery.
-
I think it would change my appearance significantly - I've used photoshopped images of myself on dating sites and had a night and day difference in my responses
Just out of interest why do you hold that view though? Are you just saying the changes are so subtle as to be barely noticeable?
I hold that view because I had jaw surgery some months ago with big movements.
Additionally, I have made some friends over at progenica (german jaw surgery board) and asked them frankly about their experiences after their surgery(ies).
You are looking at still pictures made with expensive digital stereo cameras (that's what surgeons use to highlight/accentuate deformities to help with planning). Real life differences will be less obvious, especially because people aren't staying perfectly still in natural head position all the time.
EDIT: The pic you posted has also been tampered with. Look at the background of the before and after - the contrast has been f**ked with to make her before face flatter/blander/rounder/s**ttier overall.
That's not to say that surgery won't improve looks. It just won't improve them enough.
I am just relaying information, not trying to stop you or anything.
-
I had a short mandible, but we have a similar growth type (horizontal).
I improved by 1.5 points I think. Other members on the private forums have seen my pics, maybe they can chime in.
-
I hold that view because I had jaw surgery some months ago with big movements.
Additionally, I have made some friends over at progenica (german jaw surgery board) and asked them frankly about their experiences after their surgery(ies).
You are looking at still pictures made with expensive digital stereo cameras (that's what surgeons use to highlight/accentuate deformities to help with planning). Real life differences will be less obvious, especially because people aren't staying perfectly still in natural head position all the time.
EDIT: The pic you posted has also been tampered with. Look at the background of the before and after - the contrast has been f**ked with to make her before face flatter/blander/rounder/s**ttier overall.
That's not to say that surgery won't improve looks. It just won't improve them enough.
I am just relaying information, not trying to stop you or anything.
You sound like a bitter incel, who is angry at still being incel after surgery. You're right that surgery won't make someone look like a movie star. There is too much hype around a handful of miraculous results that just aren't the norm. Peoples expectations are too high, but that isn't a reason not to get surgery.
I had JS last year and I have moved up 1.5 - 2 points in looks. That doesn't sound like much but it took me from below average to average, or slightly above average. That should be good enough for anyone. It is definitely worth it to have surgery in my opinion, rather than spend the rest of your life worrying about your looks. I will keep improving my looks with more procedures, and I hope to get to an acceptable level of aesthetics one day. I got my bi-max for free anyway, so cost doesn't bother me.
-
You sound like a bitter incel, who is angry at still being incel after surgery.
What you are doing here is called projection.
-
You sound like a bitter incel, who is angry at still being incel after surgery. You're right that surgery won't make someone look like a movie star. There is too much hype around a handful of miraculous results that just aren't the norm. Peoples expectations are too high, but that isn't a reason not to get surgery.
I had JS last year and I have moved up 1.5 - 2 points in looks. That doesn't sound like much but it took me from below average to average, or slightly above average. That should be good enough for anyone. It is definitely worth it to have surgery in my opinion, rather than spend the rest of your life worrying about your looks. I will keep improving my looks with more procedures, and I hope to get to an acceptable level of aesthetics one day. I got my bi-max for free anyway, so cost doesn't bother me.
I don't regret my surgery and I am happy with my result and happy that I did it. I know that Tumerican has to pay for braces and surgery out of pocket (that's about 20-25k € total) and I know that his main motivation is increased dating success. How does it make me bitter if I am merely telling him what to expect before he shells out such a large chunk of money and undergoes invasive surgery? He can still do it, regardless of what I say.
In fact, if I was bitter, would it not be way more satisfying to say nothing, let him waste all this money and endure all the discomfort and then have a big pile of schadenfreude when he comes back here next year disappointed and virtually broke?
Since you had surgery as well and can comment on the issue: Was what I said wrong? Do you get way more attention from women post surgery? Are you a womanizer now (I'm assuming you weren't before surgery) ?
Some food for thought: If you aren't, what makes you think that additional surgery will accomplish what your Bimax wasn't able to accomplish? Why would anyone like you after you move a bone around some mm who didn't like you when this bone was in its previous position ?
-
I had a short mandible, but we have a similar growth type (horizontal).
I improved by 1.5 points I think. Other members on the private forums have seen my pics, maybe they can chime in.
Sounds about right. I was sceptical about your plan - extracting lower teeth to make a larger movement possible, but it worked out remarkably well. You went from no jaw to a huge jaw.
The only jaw surgery patients who end up looking like models after surgery are the ones who looked like models with a dentofacial deformity before surgery:
(http://drrichardjoseph.com/assets/BeforeAfter/Pictures/113/113B_Before.jpg)
(http://drrichardjoseph.com/assets/BeforeAfter/Pictures/113/113B_After.jpg)
(http://drrichardjoseph.com/assets/BeforeAfter/Pictures/113/113A_Before.jpg)
(http://drrichardjoseph.com/assets/BeforeAfter/Pictures/113/113A_After.jpg)
-
The only jaw surgery patients who end up looking like models after surgery are the ones who looked like models with a dentofacial deformity before surgery:
Yes, I agree. An ideal dentofacial skeletal relationship is only 1 mosaic of attractiveness: quality of features, soft tissue, spacing, etc. make up the rest.
You have to have those things already in place before surgery to end up having a life changing result - which some of the published cases undoubtedly had.
-
I don't regret my surgery and I am happy with my result and happy that I did it. I know that Tumerican has to pay for braces and surgery out of pocket (that's about 20-25k € total) and I know that his main motivation is increased dating success. How does it make me bitter if I am merely telling him what to expect before he shells out such a large chunk of money and undergoes invasive surgery? He can still do it, regardless of what I say.
...
this is may be bad idea. Not because undergoing such invasive stuff would be irrational action to achieve such goals, but because jaw surgery highly likely can not achieve this - especially, if one is not legit deformed. Facial attraction is very complex topic and just moving big chuck of bone should not do the trick. The very good outcomes one can find around are more like an exception to a rule, a cherry picked cases which does not represent some average. Basically they're attractive patients with deformity who end up looking attractive since deformity is removed.
-
"Well it all depends. I just know that you can go from an ugly smile to an aesthetically pleasing smile, and I am of the opinion that the mouth area (jaws and teeth) are the most important component of attractiveness. You will never meet an ugly person with a great smile.
Whether said smile is worth 20 thousand pounds is up for debate, but it probably is at the end of the day."
I bet on eyes.
-
I don't regret my surgery and I am happy with my result and happy that I did it. I know that Tumerican has to pay for braces and surgery out of pocket (that's about 20-25k € total) and I know that his main motivation is increased dating success. How does it make me bitter if I am merely telling him what to expect before he shells out such a large chunk of money and undergoes invasive surgery? He can still do it, regardless of what I say.
In fact, if I was bitter, would it not be way more satisfying to say nothing, let him waste all this money and endure all the discomfort and then have a big pile of schadenfreude when he comes back here next year disappointed and virtually broke?
Since you had surgery as well and can comment on the issue: Was what I said wrong? Do you get way more attention from women post surgery? Are you a womanizer now (I'm assuming you weren't before surgery) ?
Some food for thought: If you aren't, what makes you think that additional surgery will accomplish what your Bimax wasn't able to accomplish? Why would anyone like you after you move a bone around some mm who didn't like you when this bone was in its previous position ?
I wasn't a womaniser before surgery, no. And I'm not now. I'm not a womaniser because I don't meet women, full stop. I've got social anxiety and don't get out much. I'm objectively better looking now though. I had maxillary impaction, and my upper and lower jaws were brought forward 9mm. My face has a more normal shape to it now, not so long and recessed.
I'm planning to get CT-Bone 3D printed implants to augment my zygomatic arches and orbital rims. I think these can help me a lot because they improve the zygoma in all directions. I think they even augment the lateral orbital rims (sides of eye). So hopefully my eyes should look better and wider too.
-
ya if your face is recessed getting jaw surgery will definitely make it look better. thats a no brainer. The problem is when people already have a flat profile, and get jaw surgery to fix an already normal looking face.
Also im with you overbiter. If they make some kind of 3D bone implant in the future that is legitimate, then i'll probably get that. ATM i'm not too sure if a ZO or a similar procedure can give enough advancement laterally to make the face look wider. I don't really care about anterior projection, though it'd be nice, i'm not sure how it'd turn out on my face. My orbitals have sort of dropped a couple mm from mouth breathing so advancing it forward would make the dropped orbital more noticeable.
-
@RedLips
I'm a girl and I think you're very pretty :)
Sure I can see what is annoying about your chin. Maybe you should see that with a surgeon. Although as many people said here, you're fine the way you are.
People say that you look how you feel. If you feel gorgeous you will be seen as gorgeous by others. If you feel ugly, maybe people won't find you ugly but they will think "she's average".
I have a fried who has very visible gum (same size as her teeth, which are short by the way) and she acts like she's so pretty (and probably thinks she is and she doesn't seem to be bothered about her teeth). Well, she gets so much attention from guys!
-
Also im with you overbiter. If they make some kind of 3D bone implant in the future that is legitimate, then i'll probably get that.
There is an implant available. See this thread I made http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php/topic,4809.0.html (http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php/topic,4809.0.html).
-
I bet on eyes.
Ditto. And there is no surgery for potato eyes.
-
overbiter - if seen the thread but its but the tech is too early for me consider getting. maybe 5-10 years.
-
Absolutely don't bother with surgery.
-
Now I'm obsessing over my chin. Does it look that bad? Is it dimpled so noticeably? Does that mean I have long face syndrome?
I looked at my mother's face this weekend, and she seems to have a longer eye-to-mouth distance than her interpupillary distance. Is this just a genetic thing? Or is it long ace syndrome? Can it still be attractive?
Chin:
http://imgur.com/qXkGg0H
http://imgur.com/JzRgu6h
-
RedLips, you're gorgeous. And your midface doesn't look long. If I were you, I would forget jaw surgery stuff and move on : )
-
those pictures suck, cant tell anything from them.
As Ive said before if you want a reasonable analysis you have to post a picture with your head in neutral position looking straight at the camera from a reasonable distance (a foot to a couple of feet away - NOT a selfie which elongates the face), followed by one picture taken from the side (profile view)
(http://i.imgur.com/ROU3A2Kl.jpg)
Like that ^^
Yeah, if you want a straight answer about whether you have a long face or not you need to show us better pics than these. To be honest I think you are trying to hide your flaws. In which case there is no point in asking us for advice. If you show us some decent pictures we can give you a truthful analysis of your flaws. What you are doing in this thread is just typical BDD behaviour. Looking for positive feedback on your face, whilst at the same time holding back from truly revealing the things you don't like about yourself. This won't help you resolve your issues.
-
Red Lips you're jsut here trolling and fishing for complements. IF you really gave a s**t about a proper analysis you'd do as tumerican said and post anatomical pics.
-
I'm not trying to hide my flaws. Here's a side view:
http://imgur.com/r1vtl5W
-
well if i were you I'd get a genioplasty and have my chin moved out a bit. But I dunno, you look fine.
-
I'd like to get a genioplasty when I can afford it in the future. Is it crazy expensive? Is it a complicated procedure? Is there a way to achieve that look without surgery?
-
Is there makeup that can make my chin look better? I hate it.
-
Look how much longer my eye-to-mouth distance is than his?! That is a normal human sitting next to me. My face isn't normal.
http://imgur.com/aZDi85m
-
That guy is still uglier than you though idk what about him is but face length isn't the be all end all of beauty standards
-
That guy is still uglier than you though idk what about him is but face length isn't the be all end all of beauty standards
So I'm definitely ugly?
-
You're not ugly at all, what makes you think so? Your midface is great, nothing wrong with it. Great cheekbones, lovely eyes, cute nose. I'd consider a girl like you to be out of my league.
What is your goal? Do you want to be prettier still? If so, why? You don't get enough attention from men?
-
I do hope you're joking and not actually serious. If you consider that ugly you really don't know ugly... your chin is a bit recessed, nothing excessively distracting. You could honestly get by no problem without surgery, unlike some of us whom surgery will never be able to render attractive - only normalise abnormal features that we have. My advice would be to consult a surgeon and get away from sites like these, they only foster even more distorted and dysmorphic thinking.
So I'm definitely ugly?