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General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: sushilover2 on April 16, 2016, 07:22:26 PM

Title: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: sushilover2 on April 16, 2016, 07:22:26 PM
Hi everyone,

Had my consultation for jaw surgery with Dr. Gunson recently and strangely, he did NOT recommend jaw surgery, rather an ortho only approach. To be fair, I'm doing this mostly for aesthetic reasons, but was still disappointed he advised not operating.

That said, can you guys take a look at the simulated CTP she give me your thoughts? Should I still push to do it?


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Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: april on April 16, 2016, 07:51:41 PM
Looks like we have similar profiles.

What would orth-only possibly do? Did he say?
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: sushilover2 on April 16, 2016, 07:56:14 PM
Looks like we have similar profiles.

What would orth-only possibly do? Did he say?

Correct the bite.
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: april on April 16, 2016, 09:20:54 PM
I meant to your profile. I'm no expert but your bite doesnt look too bad, so I assumed it was to change your profile. What was your main concern going in?

Were you wearing a wax bite in for the ceph xray? Is your profile like that usually? I might be completely wrong but one thing I've noticed is that A&G tracings are sometimes slightly more retruded than others'. I think it's to do with being put into centric relation for the records (including xrays) as opposed to a habitual bite. Has anyone else noticed that? Or do all surgeons do a wax bite for xrays at the pre-surgical consult?

And it's a tough call. I'm in a somewhat similar boat. It's great you have a non-surgical option but it really comes down to what your main concern is and if ortho alone can correct it.
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: PloskoPlus on April 17, 2016, 01:45:36 AM
Correct the bite.
Congratulations.  I recently contacted Gunson about revision jaw surgery half-hoping that I will be turned down.  I was told that I am definitely a surgery case.  FWIW, my bite is perfect.
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: kjohnt on April 17, 2016, 02:11:02 AM
So he recommended no surgery even though the tracing clearly shows ccw rotation bimax advancement an a geioplasty?

Also does anybody have a link to a guide or happen to know what all of the numbers mean?
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: Lurker25 on April 17, 2016, 10:50:14 AM
Also does anybody have a link to a guide or happen to know what all of the numbers mean?

Start at slide #8: http://www.slideshare.net/meghdubi/steiner-analysis-48319042
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: strongjawman on April 17, 2016, 07:48:25 PM
Good stuff ^

What was his reason for advising against surgery OP?
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: sushilover2 on April 23, 2016, 02:07:53 PM
One is that I currently have custom jaw/chin implants in, which are working "ok" but are more of a camouflage approach than treatment for the underlying issue. He just thinks that going all out and doing the braces/surgery, in the end, the result will be a difference of "sunrise and sunset" more than "night and day".

I probably should have asked Dr. Gunson when I had the chance, but according to the CTP, what does it look like the procedures entail? Is this just straight lower/upper jaw advancement or is there CCW and impaction as well? Would this approach elongate my midface or shorten it? It's currently pretty long.
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: sushilover2 on April 25, 2016, 09:35:32 AM
Bump
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: sushilover2 on May 02, 2016, 04:44:49 PM
Bumping again.
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: kjohnt on May 03, 2016, 11:33:08 PM
This shows CCW rotation by posterior maxillary downgraft.  So the back of your maxilla comes down - no impaction.  See the red part?  That's the result.  The back of your maxilla and your molars move down and forward.  The pivot point is right behind your nose near the number 13 so no advancement there, but upper incisors rotate such that your upper lip will have more support behind it.  Most of the forward movement realized from the CCW rotation is at the chin, and then a genioplasty (small chunk moved forward at chin) helps project it even further.

The vertical length of your face will not change in this scenario.
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: kjohnt on May 03, 2016, 11:42:44 PM
Start at slide #8: http://www.slideshare.net/meghdubi/steiner-analysis-48319042

I know the analyses and points/lines thereof, but what do these numbers mean on the CTP?
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: sushilover2 on May 04, 2016, 12:36:58 AM
This shows CCW rotation by posterior maxillary downgraft.  So the back of your maxilla comes down - no impaction.  See the red part?  That's the result.  The back of your maxilla and your molars move down and forward.  The pivot point is right behind your nose near the number 13 so no advancement there, but upper incisors rotate such that your upper lip will have more support behind it.  Most of the forward movement realized from the CCW rotation is at the chin, and then a genioplasty (small chunk moved forward at chin) helps project it even further.

The vertical length of your face will not change in this scenario.

Interesting. I thought CCW always results in a shorter and wider face....

Based on the ceph, can you see this having a major aesthetic benefit?
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: Dharma on May 04, 2016, 02:46:18 PM
Hmmmm.  There are many ways of going about cephalometric analysis. If you have access to a university library or VPN, I would start digging into the literature if I were you--there's a lot too it. Most importantly, your provider should be able to go over this at whatever detail you desire.   

As CCW has been mentioned, here's a free article online about CCW that also explores cephalometrics a great deal. 

https://mail.google.com/_/scs/mail-static/_/js/k=gmail.main.en.cyIFDuqk_Yo.O/m=m_i,t,it/am=PiMeCZj_e38wrjMAaKWPVJj3_vPdkvKzyz3-f2cCROpVwP_N_h_A_8FetIUC/rt=h/d=1/rs=AHGWq9C_yfU-teE3cz5sV3XTnrKiDmNBBg

Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: kjohnt on May 04, 2016, 10:38:43 PM
Interesting. I thought CCW always results in a shorter and wider face....

Based on the ceph, can you see this having a major aesthetic benefit?

You can see it right there in the red - no change to vertical dimension.

Only if they are removing bone vertically (anterior maxillary impaction) would CCW rotation shorten the face.  But in your case, given the red post-op scenario, the back of the maxilla comes down.  This means they are achieving CCW rotation without altering the front of your jaws.  The back teeth come down instead of the front teeth coming up.

Yes, you would look much better aesthetically with adequate chin projection.
Title: Re: Can You Guys Analyze My CTP?
Post by: april on May 06, 2016, 12:09:32 PM
I know the analyses and points/lines thereof, but what do these numbers mean on the CTP?

Some of them look like they're measurements from how far away from the TVL. Like especially when looking at the base of the nose, the lips, chin... but then none of the other numbers makes sense, so I don't know..