jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: Lazlo on August 01, 2016, 04:07:51 PM
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Hey your dad said you're more handsome; that's a good start.
this is the new RELIGION. THE RELIGION OF BONE!
You should turn this into a t-shirt to fund all your future surgery!
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Soo I had a chin implant revision surgery - an 8mm implant replaced with a 12mm. Even intravenous at the end of surgery, my whole lower face looked huge compared to my upper cheeks and eyes, & all throughout the week post op. You could draw a line like you were tracing a pyramid from my chin up to my forehead. With the swelling gone, my chin is again a bit recessive (like 5mm per Gunson I think) and the heavy lower face is gone. I know nothing compared to you in bimax, but somehow I doubt what your seeing with your upper cheeks will be very noticeable (if at all) after several months.
GJ - this was back in April. I got some really f*ed up paralysis in my lower lip from the first chin implant that I plan to post about later. This revision unfortunately didn't fix it.
Edit2: If you haven't read my post yet Lazlo, holy s**t sounds like you fell off of cloud 9 at 300mph. I could see how the logistics of the meds could get messed up if they assume the best case scenario on the flight... huge lesson learned for everyone else (if they decide to wing it with flying 1 week post op). Did you even make it back to Canada, or wherever you live?
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I doubt what your seeing with your upper cheeks will be very noticeable (if at all) after several months.
Most likely not.
A 12mm genio? Wow...
Do you plan to post photos of that?
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Yeah so this was Hell, did I tell you that? I wanted to die? I'm only slowly recovering from the trauma of spending the day on and off a plain in detroit, my sinus bursts and running out of VERY VERY powerful pain meds for 24 hours now. I want to kill myself. \\\\\\
Yeah so let me be straight up. Like I was at the beginning when I first descended into this forums and shook things up.
\DON"T GET JAW SURGERY. JUST DOn'T DO IT. IT"S KIND OF POINTLESS, REALLY DUMB, EVERYONE SCREWS IT P CAUSE IT"S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE CHANGED PAST YOU'RE LIKE 20 years old
Yeah so straight up: It's hell. Also, some people have informed me they thing my entire results are f**ked. Sinn says it's fine and also checked my bite says it's fine. Im back in Toronto feeling liberated. even my dad was like wow you look a lot more handsome.
I asked for more than anyone from surgery. but i'll tell you it's a very very very preliminary step is your goal AESTHETICS.
because of me and EARL Dr. Sinn's office has been the central hub for stage 5 incels. (just a joke don't take offence). I just saw tons of young gues whoe looked like friggin young mark zuckerberg or that fat guy turtle from entourage. --litearrlly like four of them in Sinn's office for meeting i was next door just chilling on meds and there were four guys who came in copying me iwth pictures of jason statham and those male models and it was so riduclous from outside like seeing this f**king shlub put up a picture of like male models.
I sa this scene play out maybe four times with this exact model and sinn trying to not f**king laugh:
GOD DAMN IT IS SO PATHETIC AND LOSERDUM AND IT IS EXACTTLY WHAT I BECAME cause I thought this procedure was so hardcore.
But let me tell you Dr. Sinn tries. He did his best and this entire endeavor to become better looking is futule. Don't get this surgery it is a waste of time.
HOWEVER, if you see it as a first step toward a new religion THEN YES you can make it a lifelong thing.
Having bim-max makes your upper face disappear. Like you now will have a profile like f**king paul giammati. I'm not joking. this is not really an aesthetic procedure at all. It's done for the airway, for the bite that's it. There'a bit of bulls**t about orthagnathic line throw in, but it's not centrally for aesthetics at all and if you push that you will potentilly be in a lot of hurt.
Okay yeah so the upper third is destroyed by bimax, it looks like i know have a narrow upper no bones in cheek. But sinn said he did this purposey cause then I'd have the undulating S i want and he'll do a procedure to my cheekbones. So I'm happy he realizes what I want.
But yeah for the average used,skepp jaw surgery> For someone to get even close to the results you may want you will need long term --at least one, probably two chin wings from Dr. Z who is a must and then yeah cheekbones with Sinn and then I'dll be close to the f**king beast i am creating.
Okay guys, been through HELL in back 24 hours. I am basically over this surgery since I have meds but like I'll tell you it's not easy.
Now I have to wait for some friends to check their emails and verify my results.
Alright guys give me a shout. I can' open my mouth like not even for a spoon of yogourt.
Love all you guys and yeah this is the new RELIGION. THE RELIGION OF BONE!
ive had more pl than anyone i know in the last 10 years. I dont regret it but i can tell you you cant buy good looks if you start out ugly. the best you can hope for is better looking version of you. which is better than nothing
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Lazlo go watch some netflix and relax man. You had surgery like 5 days ago and you're already freaking out about aesthetics haha? This procedure is mentally wearing--be calm and relax and take it day by day or else you'll go bats**t crazy.
I've seen very few people who have had this procedure who come out worse aesthetically than prior. And btw, the procedure is not meant to be aesthetically minded--it just happens to be a side effect.
All 7 seasons of "24" are on netflix & HBO has some great movies--check em out...
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I remember a young guy from this forum
Serious question: is it possible for you to write a sentence on this forum, or talk to another human in person, without mentioning someone else?
I've never seen a person talk about other people this much and frankly don't understand it.
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GJ I appreeciate everything you are doing but if i am talking anonymously about someone then I don't think that's a bad idea. People on this forum should know that it's not that uncommon for people who have jaw surgery to either have lifellong complications or to have some problem that will hurt them for a very very long time. And that even the best surgeons seem right now to be producing their fair share of mess-ups.
in secret getting heavy pain treatment. Jaw surgery ruined his entire life
It's safe to assume if he was telling you about heavy pain treatment in private, it's because he didn't want it discussed in public.
Just common decency not to do that. I don't see any other members doing things like that.
It's easy to just say, "Patients have complications like xyz" without getting into him. I mean "TF", the "student" who was seeing Dr. Gunson...gee, wonder who that is...
It's not normal to have the maxilla move. That is a sign of non-union or partial union, to my knowledge, and a good reason to call the doctor. You sure it's not the splint moving around? Why are you touching the jaw with your tongue? Just let it be.
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How could anyone judge if your results were messed up after just a couple of days? Swelling will be at a peak no? Wait a couple of weeks and see how things turn out. And I would email your surgeon with your concerns and trust his judgement if it seems things are moving around as they shouldn't be. He'll know best.
Good luck!
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You never showed your plan to anyone. In fact I never even saw you without your beard until a few days ago. The gunson plan looked good to me. You should have just said to Sinn "do this exactly".
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i haven't eaten anything but cold coffee water and a bit of gatorade for 8 days now. Funny thing is I don't think I even lost that much weight.
Dr. Sinn said I should be eating. Also Dr. Sinn said like soft food his choices: "eggs, cereal blah blah"
protein shakes are out of the qeustion they make me have diahreea. I've suffered the indignity of s**tTING MY BED twice now.
I f**ked s**t MY BED GUYS. Not like a bit of s**t in my pants. No waking up and there's just DIARHEEA s**t everywhere.
I did that three night in a row.
#Keepings**trealjawsurgerydiarysfullouts**tmybed
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see like you're saying sign of "nonunion" like i'm freaked out. but you have to put a lot of pressure on the mouth to put elastics on .
Well it could be something else. But that's the first thing that comes to mind if you're saying it feels like it's moving and it's making noise.
You'd think he'd see that, though. He took a scan, right? Just call him and ask.
I wish people had been more interested in my plan BeFOre surgery.
Did you even present the numbers? I never saw that.
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What exactly were you told to do for after care? Gunson doesn't have you do anything yourself with the elastics for two weeks. Maybe its too soon to be changing them. Were you given specifics on diet and are you eating and keeping your mouth clean? I know I sound like an over bearing mom, but watching someone go through this over the past three weeks has me on high alert.
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i have like a mm of gum show now when i smile --it looks just friggin weird to me. Also my bite looks really far back in my mouth. I don't know why the f**k that is. Man my teeth and smie were so much better before extractions.
You wrote this yesterday:
He inverted both the lips and now i have the most amazing shaped tom hardy lips, the full smile, not bunny rabbit at all, more like Alex Pettyfer smile.
What's going on over there, man? I know recovery is rough, but is this the drugs, or are you varying this much day to day?
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What exactly were you told to do for after care? Gunson doesn't have you do anything yourself with the elastics for two weeks. Maybe its too soon to be changing them. Were you given specifics on diet and are you eating and keeping your mouth clean? I know I sound like an over bearing mom, but watching someone go through this over the past three weeks has me on high alert.
hey meep meep meep I actually really really need your help so please be an overbearingmom. this is why people love gunson and arnett they have really precise instructions and things they care about and so patients can follow them.
wow so funny i was pretty "robust" and then losing all painkillers and having a breakdown in detroit has really f**ked me up eh?
wow.
anyway, thanks for your interest. i was told following: like soft foods soon, after a week or so. at first he wanted the splint on 30 days but then he just took if off and kept it off to check the bite. said everything is great. said start soft foods. start brushing and cleaning regularly.
I mean if there was no forum here i''d think all of this were normal but now i feel like something's gone wrong.
oh just to clear:
sinn did not give me plan till five minutes before surgery. said bite is great.
I'm about to get an appointment with a max fac to do my aftercare here this week. oh well, such is life and the risks of getting this surgery in the US so far away.
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You wrote this yesterday:
What's going on over there, man? I know recovery is rough, but is this the drugs, or are you varying this much day to day?
i dunno maybe i've gone mad, the aiport incident hospital no pain meds it was horrifying man. you have no idea how f**ked up and freaky it was me in bed shivering so much sweat i couldn't even wear clothes a bath of cold sweat. you forget i just travelled across a continent.
yeah i thought my results were good the lips look great but yeah the teeth actually look a bit werid. i do have an amazing full smile but it doesn't look good to me really.
it's nt having pain eds actually. no hdrocodone --not a way to live one week after jaw surgery.
you guys are such doomsday prophesizers that now i'm confused. I will see this doctor here and she will tell me if everything is okay.
You guys, I mean seriously gunson and arnett aren't the only gods of jaw surgery even though i agree they're pretty amazing.
But I thought sinn is better from all my testing and relative research. that said I feel i may have missed the risk factors somewhat.
i don't know what sinn did now and im scared.
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Surely Dr. Sinn gave you papers of his 'standard' post bimax procedure instructions to follow? (I just assume he'd have that) Price tag aside, that's encouraging to hear Dr. Gunson has strict instructions (honestly may see if Posnick is still in the running though, sounds like cheeks would ideally be handled separately from bimax anyways). I'm a thin tall stick so your freaking me out a bit over here.. 3 days of almost no food post wisdom teeth extractions and I felt like death.
I'm also really curious what the Gunson plan was but I'll find it somewhere on this board, I hope. ;)
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You should have stayed in Dallas for another week. I can't believe you flew out less than a week after surgery. This is madnes.
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You guys, I mean seriously gunson and arnett aren't the only gods of jaw surgery even though i agree they're pretty amazing.
No surgeon is a god.
You should post photos of the bite/etc so we can see. Otherwise it's all just guessing.
Really you should be resting and getting nutrition. I really doubt you need added stress, so you should leave the board if opinions are freaking you out.
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You should have stayed in Dallas for another week. I can't believe you flew out less than a week after surgery. This is madnes.
oh man i know youre so right. but it was all dr. sinn. I just listened to his instructions he was very very methodical but he was f**king cavalier as f**k. said you're great everything is fine.
yeah i got a four page thing about bim-ax after instructions it's like just the obvious. nothing very strict or specific at all.
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No surgeon is a god.
You should post photos of the bite/etc so we can see. Otherwise it's all just guessing.
Really you should be resting and getting nutrition. I really doubt you need added stress, so you should leave the board if opinions are freaking you out.
okay yeah i know you're right man. you're my friend i agree. listen here's the thing like i know from outside myself this is a very very common result after surgery psyhcologically.
1) stage of immediate elation
2) very long stage of questioning everything --honestly yeah youre right exacerbated by boards and social media PS sights. In fact its something a lot of people tell you strictkly to stay away from and I always give that advice saying everyhting is fine it's just a stage
3) but there is reality out there. if you're safe, etc. healthy no complications and slight aesthetic improvement you're a winner.
To me the god of this surgery is STUPIDJAWS. f**k he looks like a male model but he did bi-max plus TWO count it TWO upper chin-wings.
right now I just sort of have a kiefer sutherland chin.
yeah i'll post me pics. I'm really fat by the way guys a year on depression meds made me obsese so you can't see a ton of the results rigth not dr. sinn said go get fit lose a tone of weight.
oh he said exercise 6 weeks.
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def call dr sinn, but maybe its too soon to be changing elastics and brushing. esp if you feel movement.
rinse your mouth 2x daily with salt water and peroxide and 2x daily with just salt water.
eat at least semi nutritious food especially before you take any medications. get some of those boxed soups at your local health food store, creamy broccoli, roasted red pepper, yogurt can be made thinner with extra milk. maybe you should try non-dairy milks, more gentle on your upset stomach. bone broth is really good too.
mashed potatoes and hot cereal require too much effort as they are typically prepared. you can have those things but they need to be blended really finely and liquidy enough to drink out of a mug without a spoon (add extra cream/soymilk/almond milk to either to make pretty much into a soup). don't use a straw.
you should get a liquid probiotic. a local food store should have one and they taste pretty good. if its too thick to drink add some soy milk to it. maybe that will help with your stomach issues.
if you have any questions i am happy to tell you what i did while caring for my friend, dr gunsons instructions (we see him tomorrow), recipes or meal ideas.
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okay yeah i know you're right man. you're my friend i agree. listen here's the thing like i know from outside myself this is a very very common result after surgery psyhcologically.
1) stage of immediate elation
2) very long stage of questioning everything --honestly yeah youre right exacerbated by boards and social media PS sights. In fact its something a lot of people tell you strictkly to stay away from and I always give that advice saying everyhting is fine it's just a stage
3) but there is reality out there. if you're safe, etc. healthy no complications and slight aesthetic improvement you're a winner.
To me the god of this surgery is STUPIDJAWS. f**k he looks like a male model but he did bi-max plus TWO count it TWO upper chin-wings.
right now I just sort of have a kiefer sutherland chin.
yeah i'll post me pics. I'm really fat by the way guys a year on depression meds made me obsese so you can't see a ton of the results rigth not dr. sinn said go get fit lose a tone of weight.
oh he said exercise 6 weeks.
Stupid jaws also had three nose jobs and a zygomatic osteotomy. But he's much younger than you, and has very good features. There are lots of ugly robust men (Jason Statham for one).
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eat at least semi nutritious food
It's so important. Homemade broth, mashed/blended avocado...blended super foods. Give the body what it needs to recover.
It doesn't need stress. Leave the board.
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oh and the fact that you are only one week out of surgery and without pain meds and swollen up like a puffer fish is reason enough to lose your mind. dr gunson initially prescribes tramadol but my friend was given a dose of liquid hydrocodone before leaving the hospital the day after surgery. he immediately said "f*ck that. ill die without the hydro script". i can only imagine how he would have been acting/feeling a week out of surgery without any pain meds. especially if you are also off any other meds you regularly take. go to your GP have dr sinn make a call, get the pain meds. get some rest and healthy food in you. watch a funny movie. and sleep.
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def call dr sinn, but maybe its too soon to be changing elastics and brushing. esp if you feel movement.
rinse your mouth 2x daily with salt water and peroxide and 2x daily with just salt water.
eat at least semi nutritious food especially before you take any medications. get some of those boxed soups at your local health food store, creamy broccoli, roasted red pepper, yogurt can be made thinner with extra milk. maybe you should try non-dairy milks, more gentle on your upset stomach. bone broth is really good too.
mashed potatoes and hot cereal require too much effort as they are typically prepared. you can have those things but they need to be blended really finely and liquidy enough to drink out of a mug without a spoon (add extra cream/soymilk/almond milk to either to make pretty much into a soup). don't use a straw.
you should get a liquid probiotic. a local food store should have one and they taste pretty good. if its too thick to drink add some soy milk to it. maybe that will help with your stomach issues.
if you have any questions i am happy to tell you what i did while caring for my friend, dr gunsons instructions (we see him tomorrow), recipes or meal ideas.
thank you for the specific instructions really appreciate it.
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oh and the fact that you are only one week out of surgery and without pain meds and swollen up like a puffer fish is reason enough to lose your mind. dr gunson initially prescribes tramadol but my friend was given a dose of liquid hydrocodone before leaving the hospital the day after surgery. he immediately said "f*ck that. ill die without the hydro script". i can only imagine how he would have been acting/feeling a week out of surgery without any pain meds. especially if you are also off any other meds you regularly take. go to your GP have dr sinn make a call, get the pain meds. get some rest and healthy food in you. watch a funny movie. and sleep.
yup, will do. yeah man hydrocodone is the best will have dor. sinn make the call. thanks.
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oh and the fact that you are only one week out of surgery and without pain meds and swollen up like a puffer fish is reason enough to lose your mind. dr gunson initially prescribes tramadol but my friend was given a dose of liquid hydrocodone before leaving the hospital the day after surgery. he immediately said "f*ck that. ill die without the hydro script". i can only imagine how he would have been acting/feeling a week out of surgery without any pain meds. especially if you are also off any other meds you regularly take. go to your GP have dr sinn make a call, get the pain meds. get some rest and healthy food in you. watch a funny movie. and sleep.
meep do you know how long i need to be on meds at all for? i mean all dr. gave me was HYDROCODONE. in tablets i don't even know how many grams. liquid hydrocodone mmmmm sounds like heaven.
you know in detroit at the "motel" it was so bad that i actually was begging my dad to do out and suck a dick for heroin. i was like screming if you really loved me you'd find me some heroin in this was before ai passed out.
god it was worse than murphy's law.
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Honestly i wish i had someone to take care of me --let me put that on a list of things you should have and learn from. My dad is useless. You need like someone who is f**king a genius and very maternal.
my dad is useless. I actually have begun to hate him through this whole process. but whatever why am i ranting about this it's 1 am here. thanks for being my friends guys.
GJ, Plosko, ditterbo, molestrip, meepmeepmeep and everyone else I'm not mentioning. One day hopefully we will meet up and we'll all be so hot we'll have a jaw surgery orgy.
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why did you leave dallas without a re-up on pain meds? that is crazy. a week out seems too early to fly anyway but with proper medication is insane.
i think by 2.5 weeks you should be totally off the heavy stuff for sure, if not 2 by weeks.
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Okay I must chime in because clearly Sinn hasn't given you proper instructions.
Had surgery a year ago I recall everything vividly still
1) you ARE NOT to eat anything other than purely 100% liquid food Laszlo. Not soft food for Christ's sake--LIQUIDS. this includes : soups, fruit shakes, juice, etc. Yes it f**king sucks but this is crucial. On the side of caution surgeons (good ones) typically recommend this for around 4 weeks. There needs to be time to heal. sometimes people forget that they just got their goddamn face. reconstructed. You can move to soups and really soft foods at 4-5wks.
2) you are NOT TO REMOVE any bands unless they break for a solid 2 weeks. Not even while brushing (which should be done with a baby toothbrush). You probably are too wacked on drugs to even properly place them.
3) you are to SLEEP ON YOUR BACK with pillows elevating you at about 60-70° Make an effort to not toss or turn.
4) idk why your splint is out--bite splint or segmented maxillary splint either way it's too early --whatever. Stop pressing your goddamn tongue on your mouth. Your maxilla is barely attached.
5) keep taking your pain medicine (no advil or aspirin) and for Christ's sake you should be icing the living hell out of both sides of your jaws and have them wrapped around your face. I did this for at least 2 weeks. at least. Write down when and how much of each antibiotic and pain killer you take on a piece of paper. This is important.
6) do not exercise. Do not exert. Sit the f down and watch TV. Explain this to your father and be f**king cool. Drink a bunch of water through a ketchup bottle squeezer that they have at restaurants. Buy them on Amazon. Drink soup through them too.
this surgery is hard. You knew this & you'll get through it. Be calm and follow procedure and you'll make through just like the rest of us.
Pce
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Okay I must chime in because clearly Sinn hasn't given you proper instructions.
Had surgery a year ago I recall everything vividly still
1) you ARE NOT to eat anything other than purely 100% liquid food Laszlo. Not soft food for Christ's sake--LIQUIDS. this includes : soups, fruit shakes, juice, etc. Yes it f**king sucks but this is crucial. On the side of caution surgeons (good ones) typically recommend this for around 4 weeks. There needs to be time to heal. sometimes people forget that they just got their goddamn face. reconstructed. You can move to soups and really soft foods at 4-5wks.
2) you are NOT TO REMOVE any bands unless they break for a solid 2 weeks. Not even while brushing (which should be done with a baby toothbrush). You probably are too wacked on drugs to even properly place them.
3) you are to SLEEP ON YOUR BACK with pillows elevating you at about 60-70° Make an effort to not toss or turn.
4) idk why your splint is out--bite splint or segmented maxillary splint either way it's too early --whatever. Stop pressing your goddamn tongue on your mouth. Your maxilla is barely attached.
5) keep taking your pain medicine (no advil or aspirin) and for Christ's sake you should be icing the living hell out of both sides of your jaws and have them wrapped around your face. I did this for at least 2 weeks. at least. Write down when and how much of each antibiotic and pain killer you take on a piece of paper. This is important.
6) do not exercise. Do not exert. Sit the f down and watch TV. Explain this to your father and be f**king cool. Drink a bunch of water through a ketchup bottle squeezer that they have at restaurants. Buy them on Amazon. Drink soup through them too.
this surgery is hard. You knew this & you'll get through it. Be calm and follow procedure and you'll make through just like the rest of us.
Pce
Boom stick.
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Boom stick.
great stuff thanks a lot.
i'm concerned that sinn removed the splint so early.
and also whats up with him telling me to change the elastics every day.
I'm almost frigging used to the pain now this is so bad. thanks guy.
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Pains temporary dude, don't worry about it. Aesthetics is everything.
I'd imagine the pain would be enjoyable in a way. Just like how you get muscle soreness after going to the gym which becomes a reminder that you've done the deed, and the future will be better because of it.
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Hi lazlo, first i wish you well for your recovery and as many people here already suggested i would invite you to focus on your recovery.
What you say about bimax causing the cheekbones to appear “low set” is, indeed, partially true.
This effect is exacerbated by the swelling that mostly occurs at the level of the LEFORT 1 cut.
Having such swelled cheeks, paranasals and upper lip areas makes the upper midface look extremely depressed.
Mind my words, this swelling goes away in MUCH MORE than 6 months. I’m some…3 years post-op and I believe I still have some 5% swelling
This will be a tough journey, you’re not even halfway!
I thank you very much for referring to me as a guy who had very good results. It is a good feeling. However, as also Plosko noted, I had different surgeries. Do not underestimate the effect of fillers that had a big impact on my looks.
Furthermore, I still feel ugly some days, suggesting that perhaps I do suffer with some bipolar condition that changes how I feel about my looks independently of how they are objectively.
The stages of elation and depression that you described won’t be limited to your immediate post op phase but might be shifted into a lifetime, maybe not so acute-but still, happening.
As also earl stated, there is only so much you can do. Things kind of slipped out of our hands, minds, wallets. There is a subtle line between healthy self-improvements goals and surpassing that boundary and shattering your body, mind and thoughts in insane territory. There’s a space that’s in between insane and insecure and you must try to stay on the “right” side.
Looks “obsession” is a drug that can, will ruin your life. Life is not meant to be lived this way. Improving a deficient jaw and ill defined angles is ok, but it should not be the start of a journey to achieve projecting lateral orbital rims with a Monobloc advancement. Where does one draw the line though? If you improved by, x% having surgery Y, why can’t you improve 2x% having also surgery Z? This kind of reasoning will haunt you, and whose to say you should be happy with surgery y? If you’ll get surgery Z and get good results from it, the same people who were pressuring you to “settle” will be the ones praising your results, thus encouraging you (indirectly) to pursue more surgery.
Realizing few mm added to your bone structure completely changes how you are perceived by others, and actually experiencing it, Is soul crushing. It is difficult to believe in more profound things, bonds, feelings, uniqueness of the soul and minds. These things however do-in fact-exist. Keep it In mind while pursuing orbital rim augmentation.
All in all, I have no specific recommendation and suggestion. This life is complicated and the decisions are for you to make and you’ll find a way to make it work.
Good luck my friend, try to love yourself somehow. Try to enjoy life focusing on other stuff.
When you go outside,do you analyse other people’s bone structure?
Don’t!
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Tried reading autistic ramblings
Couldnt do it
Cliffs what you are talking about because at the moment it looks like drivel
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Tried reading autistic ramblings
Couldnt do it
Cliffs what you are talking about because at the moment it looks like drivel
very supportive!
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very supportive!
Sorry but what is he saying? Is he saying its a good thing? Is he saying it's not? Is he saying he regrets it?
If he cant post coherently he shouldnt be posting tbh.
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Sorry but what is he saying? Is he saying its a good thing? Is he saying it's not? Is he saying he regrets it?
If he cant post coherently he shouldnt be posting tbh.
i understand you are a virgin shut-in that has difficulty connecting to humans being, but try to comprehend his emotional state after a DEVASTATING surgery. General, pain meds, pain, anxiety, etc...sorry if he doesn't sound like he's expressing thoughts coherently.
f**k off
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You've been given great advice in the thread, one of the better ones is avoiding these type of websites during your early healing process. It's clearly stressing you out and that's the last thing you need after what you've gone through.
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Mentally, you are near the worst part of recovery still. You can't think straight so don't even try, just let it pass by. I agree it's insane that you're flying now, doesn't surprise me you had problems. 2 weeks minimum but most say 3 weeks. No bony union for 6 weeks! Or 4mo if you got HA grafts. You should be in a splint or a very thick wire for the 3-piece. That 3-piece is relatively risk over 30, I was told not worth it for me. Don't test it by moving the segments and definitely avoid kinks on the palate, that's your only blood supply to the teeth right now. It takes 2 weeks for blood flow to return to normal.
I don't think your assessment of pain is fair, over 99% of people who get this surgery turn out just fine. Risks are commensurate with degree of movements, number of procedures done, age of patient, and invasiveness of procedures. BSSO isn't much more invasive than a wisdom tooth removal. A small mandible movement has little risk of much at all, especially without genio. LeFort is the riskier procedure to me, since many nerves have to be severed. I don't know how you retained feeling, the neuropalatine bundle can be maintained and perhaps you had nerves running through it that aren't normally there. Your gums should be numb at a minimum. But there's also a persistent risk of infections in the sinus cavity and with both there's risk of malposition of the condyle, shifting of the bite and nose.
I would say your movements were low risk. Doing 6mm allowed Dr Sinn to give you a 3-piece to protect your teeth and gums long term. I suspect he's left you with a deficient airway and you may need CPAP when older. It's a tough choice to make or he could have done both then increased the risk of the surgery. We can't tell at this point.
Anyway, it's done now. I know you don't see it but the pain WILL go away. Eating food at this point sounds insane to me but I know of a case where surgeon said it was ok NEXT DAY. That person had a trivial movement though.
You're right, it's not great to get this for aesthetics. Still, I've seen some big transformations and it does reverse/mitigate some aging. The sunken cheekbones happens because of facial posture change and because they're right next to each other. Wolford published on this topic a decade ago. I've seen it first hand on a movement much larger than you, this would only bother the pickiest of patients. My friend still looks better after surgery and handsome overall. People with major aesthetic problems usually also have functional problems though so I don't discourage it. Unfortunately, not all surgeons set out to fix the functional problems while they're in there so there's that too.
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Sorry but what is he saying? Is he saying its a good thing? Is he saying it's not? Is he saying he regrets it?
If he cant post coherently he shouldnt be posting tbh.
Hey I can post whatever I want on my thread you f**king c*nt.
What have you done Rikenen you f**king sluhate incel level s**tbird. I bet you haven't had sex in this century! hahahah a
f**king loser get off this board.
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Molestrip, you're a jedi master. Stupidjaws --super Jedi.
Yeah other people on this board don't realize you need at least one chinwing.
My advancement was huge. My lower jaw, chin etc. looks good.
Just got back from the orthodontist, he checked everything and says bite looks good. Said i was a major improvement looks very good.
So technically everything is fine. But i'm still plagued by doubt from the armchair surgeons on the board so I have to transcribe my procedure and probably post it on the private thread.
Hope everyone is well. Got lots of superfoods kale, spinach, turmeric etc. etc. for juicing, got re-uped on hydrocodone OH YEAH LOVE IT, and got some very expensive beef and chicken broths made paleo style.
Molestrip why are you saying the airway is small? Also, yeah i have full sensation everywhere. my palate feels so much bigger and wider that's a nice feeling.
take care guys.
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Hey I can post whatever I want on my thread you f**king c*nt.
What have you done Rikenen you f**king sluhate incel level s**tbird. I bet you haven't had sex in this century! hahahah a
f**king loser get off this board.
He was banned the moment I read that.
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But i'm still plagued by doubt from the armchair surgeons on the board
Don't ask questions if you can't handle the answers. That's basic.
Taking a backhand jab at people who give opinions, when you want them, is immature.
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Don't ask questions if you can't handle the answers. That's basic.
Taking a backhand jab at people who give opinions, when you want them, is immature.
No I know, I need your opinion as all pursuit of knowledge can be advanced through Hegelian dialectical criticism and you present a particular anti-thesis to Sinn's position and hopefully we will come to a better thesis.
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Good luck Lazlo, the pain is temporary but the bone will be forever.
I'm saving up for my own surgery, nothing so dramatic though, I'm going for infraorbital implants maybe fat transfers to my lis as well.
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No I know, I need your opinion as all pursuit of knowledge can be advanced through Hegelian dialectical criticism and you present a particular anti-thesis to Sinn's position and hopefully we will come to a better thesis.
Yes, but if your surgery turns out to be well done, I think you'll bash us all and start proclaiming yourself, and Sinn, gods. That you guys combined forces to become the minotaurs of jaw surgery. lolol.
You seem to be in some battle of "I told you so" and "I picked the best surgeon!" that I can't figure out. Is this telling yourself it to believe it? Is it an ego stroke? Is it bashing the dumb peons who didn't do what you're doing?
I say this because of what you write on here and little snide backhand jabs at anyone who questions things. It's just some of the weirdest behavior I've ever seen. The stuff that isn't completely bizarre or insulting is funny!
#Narcissism
#Delusion
#Self-importance
#MinotaurJawSurgeon
#ReligionOfBone
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Good luck Lazlo, the pain is temporary but the bone will be forever.
I'm saving up for my own surgery, nothing so dramatic though, I'm going for infraorbital implants maybe fat transfers to my lis as well.
Thanks man, the pain is manageable now with hydrocodone. I mean Dr. Sinn really gave me an extreme chin and jaw.
Yeah it even looks so much different since the pics I sent to you GJ, swelling has gone down considerably now my really bad swelling came five days after, not day three.
It's serious pain, but it's manageable with HYDROCODONE.
Also, I have to say dr. Sinn did a great job with the lengthening and projection of the chin. plus bit is perfect. Airway i just checked was increased to 12 mm so he must have somehow done a s**tload of CCW. But the week I was there I saw Dr. Sinn do like basically a full face and skull transplant on this severely deformed poor little girl. Like she was a kid people would gasp seeing her because of how deformed she was. And Sinn was in OR with a Neurosurgeon and another cranio doc and him. And they went to town. So Dr. Sinn probably has MANY tricks up his sleeve that others don't i'm sorry.
I met a max fac in texas and he gasped when I told him Dr. Sinn did my surgery, he said "that dude is like a magician".
And you know, my results look pretty damn good. The only thorn in my shoe is this lingering fear that something bad was done. But hopefully I'll get down to it and find out.
You know I won't like, Plastic Surgery is some friggin AWESOME s**t!
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Thanks man, the pain is manageable now with hydrocodone. I mean Dr. Sinn really gave me an extreme chin and jaw.
Yeah it even looks so much different since the pics I sent to you GJ, swelling has gone down considerably now my really bad swelling came five days after, not day three.
It's serious pain, but it's manageable with HYDROCODONE.
Also, I have to say dr. Sinn did a great job with the lengthening and projection of the chin. plus bit is perfect. Airway i just checked was increased to 12 mm so he must have somehow done a s**tload of CCW. But the week I was there I saw Dr. Sinn do like basically a full face and skull transplant on this severely deformed poor little girl. Like she was a kid people would gasp seeing her because of how deformed she was. And Sinn was in OR with a Neurosurgeon and another cranio doc and him. And they went to town. So Dr. Sinn probably has MANY tricks up his sleeve that others don't i'm sorry.
I met a max fac in texas and he gasped when I told him Dr. Sinn did my surgery, he said "that dude is like a magician".
And you know, my results look pretty damn good. The only thorn in my shoe is this lingering fear that something bad was done. But hopefully I'll get down to it and find out.
You know I won't like, Plastic Surgery is some friggin AWESOME s**t!
You don't get the feeling he's getting too old, what did all this cost you?
It'll be one or two years before I can afford him or Dr. yaremchuk to take a look at my orbitals, I'm wondering if Sinn will still be a legit option by then.
Also, if you feel comfortable, you can always PM me pics and ask what I think. I can talk it out and I won't share.
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Yes, but if your surgery turns out to be well done, I think you'll bash us all and start proclaiming yourself, and Sinn, gods. That you guys combined forces to become the minotaurs of jaw surgery. lolol.
You seem to be in some battle of "I told you so" and "I picked the best surgeon!" that I can't figure out. Is this telling yourself it to believe it? Is it an ego stroke? Is it bashing the dumb peons who didn't do what you're doing?
I say this because of what you write on here and little snide backhand jabs at anyone who questions things. It's just some of the weirdest behavior I've ever seen. The stuff that isn't completely bizarre or insulting is funny!
#Narcissism
#Delusion
#Self-importance
#MinotaurJawSurgeon
#ReligionOfBone
I like those hashtags except for Narcisssim and Delusion which I don't think are fair. I'm actually a very kind and giving and loving person and you know that GJ.
Anyway...I guess you're right to a degree I am having a very intense internal struggle in my life about many things and some of it is being revealed here.
Mmmm......Well Dr. Sinn came to me via Earl, and what he did with several people has been the s**t we dreamed of like the modified lefort 3 and box orbital osteotomies, and HA block and bone implantation. Dr. Sinn has done this all with zero complicataions from what I've seen, but let's wait.
But yes, I almost feel my mind won't be at rest unless I go back and have Arnett and Gunson double check my movements.
f**k i guess that's what I'll have to do. In fact I think that if you pay for a consult with those guys they'll double check your plan if you have surgery with another surgeon.
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About your rants regarding bimax and "weakening of mid face", I find that people with bi-maxillary retrusion mantain the angular look even into higher, average-everyday-person levels. As a result after pictures of most maxfac surgeries look "unaesthetic". That's actually full of cope because you're not supposed to look like a MM with sub o'pry level body fat. You're supposed to hold your fat in your lower cheeks. I guess patients who complain about lower face bloatedness (after the swelling goes down of course) probably have a skewed perception of the relationship between their BF and face.
You will be completely fine. Going by the religion of the bone if a bi-max is indicated then of course it was the right decision in moving towards the perfect skull profile. Even if you need any other procedures, the bimax was still the right call anyway. All the best and have a great recovery!
Thanks VALUE LD I appreciate your encouragement. Yes the RELIGION OF BONE I like it. There will be more procedures. I wasn't born to fail baby. Yeah and actually I just notice very slightly that the upper face looks a bit smaller due to bi-max but you have to have an upper midface procedure anyway if you are truly following the path indicated by the RELIGION OF BONE.
Good luck to you as well my friend. The BONE IS THE WAY>
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lazlo glad to hear youre ok. wishing you a speedy recovery. would love to see some after photos later
cheers
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lazlo glad to hear youre ok. wishing you a speedy recovery. would love to see some after photos later
cheers
thanks bro! things are speeding along somewhere! Hopefully someplace good!
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I just recall your pre-op numbers were small but I'm not certain, it was just an eyeball. We won't know until your first post-op ceph. Airways are really unpredictable like that but it almost certainly won't be bigger than before + maxillary advancement.
Your CCW in place is pretty neat though, it reduces upper airway length without uglying you in the process. Most surgeons would advance more to rotate further. I believe this is a big factor in the reason that MMAs fail today, not that anyone seems to be studying it. The few mm of reduced airway length is significant to the airway but insignificant to aesthetic. Keep us in the loop when you get the image!
Hugely jealous of your sensation return. I would love a bigger mouth too, my tongue is big like most open bites. It seems a small ridge is created in the front, at least temporarily, in those with exaggerated curve of Spee too though. My opinions are still mixed on the 3-piece.
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Your CCW in place is pretty neat though, it reduces upper airway length without uglying you in the process. Most surgeons would advance more to rotate further. I believe this is a big factor in the reason that MMAs fail today, not that anyone seems to be studying it. The few mm of reduced airway length is significant to the airway but insignificant to aesthetic. Keep us in the loop when you get the image!
@molestrip - could you explain what you are saying here a bit more? do you think that over advancement for the sake of more ccw rotation is functionally bad for the airway and aesthetic outcome? are you saying lazlo's (lazlo feel free to chime in here) linear advancement was of the smaller side but the rotation was more than normal making up for it? i know lazlo had a fairly signiifcant down graft (not sure if in the front or back or both) so i don't know how you could do an almost more stationary ccw would be possible without impaction unless the bsso not only went forward but down in order to make the bite fit. does what im saying make any sense? please advise... :)
@lazlo - glad to hear you got some healthy groceries. i know you are wanting to lose some weight but you need to get lots of protein and fat to facilitate healing. the broth is great (it should be like a jello like consistencey when cold) but don't just drink veggie juice, get full fat yogurt, add bacon grease to your soups, stuff like that. it will also keep you from absolutely loathing the fact that you are on such a restrictive diet and of course yummy stuff is comforting.
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just hang in there, I know how difficult this surgery is
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@molestrip - could you explain what you are saying here a bit more? do you think that over advancement for the sake of more ccw rotation is functionally bad for the airway and aesthetic outcome? are you saying lazlo's (lazlo feel free to chime in here) linear advancement was of the smaller side but the rotation was more than normal making up for it? i know lazlo had a fairly signiifcant down graft (not sure if in the front or back or both) so i don't know how you could do an almost more stationary ccw would be possible without impaction unless the bsso not only went forward but down in order to make the bite fit. does what im saying make any sense? please advise... :)
He had a posterior downgraft. Normally that's only possible with advancement because otherwise there'd be a sharp discontinuity in the mandible. Lazlo got advancement but not enough for the large downgraft. It looks like some of it was covered with advancement and some with smoothing the discontinuity. So Lazlo could avoid the chimp look this way. Impaction is a totally different movement and is not relevant to the conversation.
@lazlo - glad to hear you got some healthy groceries. i know you are wanting to lose some weight but you need to get lots of protein and fat to facilitate healing. the broth is great (it should be like a jello like consistencey when cold) but don't just drink veggie juice, get full fat yogurt, add bacon grease to your soups, stuff like that. it will also keep you from absolutely loathing the fact that you are on such a restrictive diet and of course yummy stuff is comforting.
Mmm.. don't forget avocado pudding too!
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My two cents : get some K vitamin asap, Thorne's research is really good,along with calcium and D vitamin, I wish I started it sooner
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My two cents : get some K vitamin asap, Thorne's research is really good,along with calcium and D vitamin, I wish I started it sooner
thanks man! you're a genius yes absolutely. you wanna know what I down like crazy!!!??
I'm doing 2 tbls of this stuff a day, it's like 50 bucks a bottle. It's butter oil (not ghee but grass fed organic butter put in a centrifugue) and fermented cod liver oil. I have 8 bottles. This is the hard core s**t!
http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/product/butter-oil-cod-liver-oil-blend/nutrient-dense-foods
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I learned about it from Tim Feriss
https://www.anabolicmen.com/triple-your-testosterone-cheat-sheet-by-tim-ferriss/
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oh man... i commend you for doing the fermented cod liver oil daily. ive kept some pretty unpalatable health routines like triphala, apple cider vinegar and sauerkraut juice every morning but i just couldnt do the fermented cod liver oil. do you just pop a spoonful into your mouth? i couldn't handle the big dollop of fishy goop sitting in my mouth until it melted enough to swallow.
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oh man... i commend you for doing the fermented cod liver oil daily. ive kept some pretty unpalatable health routines like triphala, apple cider vinegar and sauerkraut juice every morning but i just couldnt do the fermented cod liver oil. do you just pop a spoonful into your mouth? i couldn't handle the big dollop of fishy goop sitting in my mouth until it melted enough to swallow.
its really easy, i keep it in the fridge so it's quite hard like playdow, scoop a spoon out, have a glass of water ready andd then rapidly drink it down with a glass of water. I don't actually taste it at ANY point.
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what's this about??? i NEED these health tips! lazlo! shame on you! ENLIGHTEN ME!!!
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what's this about??? i NEED these health tips! lazlo! shame on you! ENLIGHTEN ME!!!
fermented cod liver oil mixed with "butter oil" (basically ghee but unlike ghee it is not heated but mixed with centrifuge to get all the best fat from the milk of organic grass fed cows). It tastes awful but who cares.
It is full of this mythical supplement called Vitamin K which is super important for all sorts of brain health, heart health, mental and physical constitution. And the fermented cod livver oil is like full of high quality absorbable K also and Vitaman D. Something about the combo of the two creates a synnergistic catalyst effect.
I'm not one for supplements and naturopathic bulls**t but this was covered by Tim Ferriss and part of his own daily regimen. Take a tablespoon each morning. jUst swallow it. If you take it morning and night plus add 5 brazill nuts and the night before a large stake with several eggs it makes you into one of the most harcore performing sex machines as within a 24 hour cycle your testosterione will be naturally boosted considerably.
http://fourhourworkweek.com/gear/#sex
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i've found the only way to ensure quality is to buy from this company:
http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/product/butter-oil-cod-liver-oil-blend/nutrient-dense-foods
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fermented cod liver oil mixed with "butter oil" (basically ghee but unlike ghee it is not heated but mixed with centrifuge to get all the best fat from the milk of organic grass fed cows). It tastes awful but who cares.
It is full of this mythical supplement called Vitamin K which is super important for all sorts of brain health, heart health, mental and physical constitution. And the fermented cod livver oil is like full of high quality absorbable K also and Vitaman D. Something about the combo of the two creates a synnergistic catalyst effect.
I'm not one for supplements and naturopathic bulls**t but this was covered by Tim Ferriss and part of his own daily regimen. Take a tablespoon each morning. jUst swallow it. If you take it morning and night plus add 5 brazill nuts and the night before a large stake with several eggs it makes you into one of the most harcore performing sex machines as within a 24 hour cycle your testosterione will be naturally boosted considerably.
http://fourhourworkweek.com/gear/#sex
Im not sold on the powers of vit k2
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Im not sold on the powers of vit k2
would you care to elaborate? I've done the testosterone protocol with eggs, steak, blue ice by the tablespoon full, brazil nuts and 5000 iu's of VItamin D at a time.
By the way Arnett and Gunson's nurses are instructed as part of your pre-surgery period workup to have you take a few thousand iu's of Vitamin D, and fish oil prior to surgery. But this blue ice stuff is beyond next level.
Do you bellieve GHEE Is good for you? Ghee has been known in india to be one of the most energizing, anti-inflammatory and hormone regulating substances. This is why all the villagers in India who follow the traditional diet of eating handfuls of ghee from wild buffalo dairy all have just the most enviable jaws and jawlines and cheekbones you'd every see on a person. And they're all vegetarian but they eat organic produce grown from very mineral rich soil and tons of ghee.
Butter Oil is basically ghee but at an even higher level of quality because instead of low heat to separate the nutrients in dairy from the fat, a centrifugue is used and this preserves much of the nutrients. Then it's mixed with high quality fermented cod liver oil and BOOM.
Do you have reservations eating it because it's dairy mixed with a meat product? Are you even allowed to try it?
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would you care to elaborate? I've done the testosterone protocol with eggs, steak, blue ice by the tablespoon full, brazil nuts and 5000 iu's of VItamin D at a time.
By the way Arnett and Gunson's nurses are instructed as part of your pre-surgery period workup to have you take a few thousand iu's of Vitamin D, and fish oil prior to surgery. But this blue ice stuff is beyond next level.
Do you bellieve GHEE Is good for you? Ghee has been known in india to be one of the most energizing, anti-inflammatory and hormone regulating substances. This is why all the villagers in India who follow the traditional diet of eating handfuls of ghee from wild buffalo dairy all have just the most enviable jaws and jawlines and cheekbones you'd every see on a person. And they're all vegetarian but they eat organic produce grown from very mineral rich soil and tons of ghee.
Butter Oil is basically ghee but at an even higher level of quality because instead of low heat to separate the nutrients in dairy from the fat, a centrifugue is used and this preserves much of the nutrients. Then it's mixed with high quality fermented cod liver oil and BOOM.
Do you have reservations eating it because it's dairy mixed with a meat product? Are you even allowed to try it?
ive read the weston price stuff imo its all unproven and anecdotaL At best. ive known many good looking ppl who have eaten the traditional diet all their lives and they have great developed bone structures. imo its all genetics
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Do you bellieve GHEE Is good for you? Ghee has been known in india to be one of the most energizing, anti-inflammatory and hormone regulating substances. This is why all the villagers in India who follow the traditional diet of eating handfuls of ghee from wild buffalo dairy all have just the most enviable jaws and jawlines and cheekbones you'd every see on a person. And they're all vegetarian but they eat organic produce grown from very mineral rich soil and tons of ghee.
FWIW, I remember reading an Indian max fac paper somewhere where they did an absolute boatload of implants - cheekbones, jaws. Couldn't tell that it made any difference at all. The subject looked weak-boned before, and did so after. I remember reading a riposte paper paper by another Indian researcher - which can be summarised as "why are you bothering? no-one can tell the difference".
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i wouldnt be surprised if theres something to k2 in terms of physical bone strength help utilize d3 etc but in terms of looks i highly doubt theres any connection. when i looked into k2 like 98% of all articles are written by people with no medical background. most are at worst just average ppl who read a few snippets of weston a price material and at best some naturopathic doctor who doesnt use any actual real studies to back up their claims. at best just anecdotal stuff.
i wish it was that easy to just change diet and have good looking kids but it isnt so. heck the relative who i look like was born in 1905 in rural germany on a farm. im pretty sure they didnt eat processed foods, i mean they were farmers and cattle dealers. he had every single maxillofacial deformity possible.
imo dr. mew stuff which is also unproven has far more "evidence" then the k2, weston price ppl.
unfortunaley looks are really just genetic lottery. i mean yes allergies other stuff can make stuff worse but im pretty positive take 2 ugly people mate them, raise them on pure organic weston price diet, tons of k2, no mouth breathing ,perfect oral posture, raised in a anti allergy enviroment, they still wont be good looking
take 2 models ,mate them raise them on mcdonalds, mouth breathing , put an old dusty carpet in their rooms, they will still be good looking overall maybe with a few flaws but overall good looking.
ive seen many ppl with narrow plates who are still good looking, samewith big noses, bas orbital rims etc. its really the overall bone structure that determines good looking or bad looking.
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i wouldnt be surprised if theres something to k2 in terms of physical bone strength help utilize d3 etc but in terms of looks i highly doubt theres any connection. when i looked into k2 like 98% of all articles are written by people with no medical background. most are at worst just average ppl who read a few snippets of weston a price material and at best some naturopathic doctor who doesnt use any actual real studies to back up their claims. at best just anecdotal stuff.
i wish it was that easy to just change diet and have good looking kids but it isnt so. heck the relative who i look like was born in 1905 in rural germany on a farm. im pretty sure they didnt eat processed foods, i mean they were farmers and cattle dealers. he had every single maxillofacial deformity possible.
imo dr. mew stuff which is also unproven has far more "evidence" then the k2, weston price ppl.
unfortunaley looks are really just genetic lottery. i mean yes allergies other stuff can make stuff worse but im pretty positive take 2 ugly people mate them, raise them on pure organic weston price diet, tons of k2, no mouth breathing ,perfect oral posture, raised in a anti allergy enviroment, they still wont be good looking
take 2 models ,mate them raise them on mcdonalds, mouth breathing , put an old dusty carpet in their rooms, they will still be good looking overall maybe with a few flaws but overall good looking.
ive seen many ppl with narrow plates who are still good looking, samewith big noses, bas orbital rims etc. its really the overall bone structure that determines good looking or bad looking.
Dude I'm not saying any of this s**t will make you good looking at all. Same with you plosko. I'm just ssaying it will be good for you while you are recovering.
I was just drinking ensure and like gatorade after my surgery and then when I shifted to drinking green juices (juice homemade, not smoothies) made with dandelion, arugala, organic greens: kale, spinach, beets, raw turmeric, raw ginger etc. etc. and started drinking two of those a day and then two broths a day --you have no idea the inight and day difference it made in my sense of wellbeing.
I have decidYOU HEARD IT HERER LAZLO IS ON A RAW JUICE FAST TILL HE REACHES 160lbs --I"M CALCULATING ABOUT 3 MONTHS --SO December 1stI'll report back!!!! y the way to keep up this juice and broth fast till I reach my target weight of 160lbs --
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I think Weston Price's research is spot on but his views has been grossly misapplied since. Faces are how humans show reproductive fitness so they're sensitive to overall health. One of the biggest factors affecting facial development now is dysfunctional immune systems and the chronic nasal congestion it causes in early childhood. But it's only responsible for the acute disorders that most of the extreme cases that many of us face, specifically the long face syndrome. The two prime suspects in allergy development are hygiene and microbiome. The microbiome is imprinted mostly from parents and I think populations are dwindling with each successive generation, a Pottenger's cat-like effect. Poor hygiene both stimulates the immune system and replenishes the micrbiome with new strains of bacteria. There was an interesting study published just this week comparing two primitive groups in America (one Amish, I forget the other), one had severe allergy problems and the other has none. They've identified proximity to cows in particular as the factor that distinguishes them, other bacterial exposure seemed less significant. So the point is, simply eating a primitive diet isn't going to fix these problems which is where the followers are being misled. That's just the largest factor, the nutritional status of the mother, quality of sleep (where growth hormones occur), pollution and other hormone disruptors, all those things have the potential to alter normal development too but are harder to pin down. My n=1, my second kid was raised fully paleo and actually has no sign of allergies and even though I have well developed arches his are pretty crowded. He was exlcusively breast fed for one year. My first had allergy problems the first two years but they cleared up by age 5, allergist couldn't find anything to treat! She has an open bite now and I don't think it'll close, she'll need surgery. Mom had an overbite growing up fixed with headgear, which she claims she didn't wear that much but who knows. I don't think we're going to fix these problems with lifestyle changes, even though a big upset would probably do the trick. We're going got need therapeutic intervention at some point. There's a lot of interesting research on these topics but not from people like Weston Price or Dr Mew, look at orthodontics graduate thesis and people with Phds. Even the one chapter summary of facial development was way over my head in one of the oral surgery textbooks and I even have the medical school basics down and a lot of experience reading medical literature (the author, as it happens, is just a random dentist in NM who doesn't attract much attention otherwise).
I have the same feeling about augmentations too. In general it takes about 3mm to make a noticeable difference on a face but you're not gonna make a radical difference. I saw one patient on the FB group who had an exceptional amount of work done and she was definitely prettier afterwards but it was a small difference for a lot of invasiveness. Last I heard she had a bunch of swelling that extended to her and throat and freaked her out but I think she was ok in the end, could be unrelated. The one exception I'd say is the infraorbital rims because it's the difference between having notable eye bags and not. The augmentation itself isn't too visible.
I do wonder the same about testosterone btw. Actually I'm surprised oral surgeons don't check levels before surgery because it's an important hormones for bones. I would guess women are more likely to have mal-union complications than men. But then most orthodontics don't even check for medications that increase the risk of root resorption, 85% don't even bother to collect a ceph for a treatment plan. Just like Realtors, they're all about volume.
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if you dont think nutrition makes a difference look at north vs south koreans.
its a small island with a very very very homogenic gene pool, and after 70 years look how different they have become.
the main stable of their diet is spicey beef soup with cooked out bones and kimchey which has insane amounts of probiotics.
comepare the skin, height and jaw sizes of the girls in the north and the south.
it would be super interesting to see the pre and projected tracing. i am especially interested in how many degrees of rotation was done, and around which point it was done, ie auto rotation, c, ans.
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if you dont think nutrition makes a difference look at north vs south koreans.
its a small island with a very very very homogenic gene pool, and after 70 years look how different they have become.
the main stable of their diet is spicey beef soup with cooked out bones and kimchey which has insane amounts of probiotics.
comepare the skin, height and jaw sizes of the girls in the north and the south.
it would be super interesting to see the pre and projected tracing. i am especially interested in how many degrees of rotation was done, and around which point it was done, ie auto rotation, c, ans.
pretty good points but i'm not sure you need meat at all. lots of people on vegetarian diets with hiqh quality nutrients and they have great bone health.
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molestrip, buy an acom to your children!!!!
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if you dont think nutrition makes a difference look at north vs south koreans.
Uh...because North Korea is Communist.
And South Korean women get a ton of plastic surgery because there's competition over the men.
That might be the worst "science" I've ever seen, topping Weston Price. Congrats.
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Uh...because North Korea is Communist.
And South Korean women get a ton of plastic surgery because there's competition over the men.
That might be the worst "science" I've ever seen, topping Weston Price. Congrats.
yeah... not to mention how seldom we see north koreans at all compared to south koreans who have a thriving entertainment industry and a widespread culture of cosmetic surgery. and who knows what they do with all the most attractive people in north korea... some salo or 120 days of sodom type sh*t seems possible :/
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Lazlo go watch some netflix and relax man. You had surgery like 5 days ago and you're already freaking out about aesthetics haha? This procedure is mentally wearing--be calm and relax and take it day by day or else you'll go bats**t crazy.
I've seen very few people who have had this procedure who come out worse aesthetically than prior. And btw, the procedure is not meant to be aesthetically minded--it just happens to be a side effect.
All 7 seasons of "24" are on netflix & HBO has some great movies--check em out...
markus you're a good guy. thanks for your help.
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You're welcome man. Hope you're progressing well
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You're welcome man. Hope you're progressing well
yeah not bad. i mean it's day 20 I can't believe how much swelling i still have like around my upper and lower lip. and though i have feeling it's like weird blocky feeling in my face as if it was made of clay. How are you doing? Do you like your result?