jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: Jilkster on September 16, 2016, 02:26:36 AM
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Hi,
I never found any consensus, does anyone have any numbers regarding the percentage of people that experience permanent numbness/nerve damage as a result of genioplasty alone?
Thanks!
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The first number that pops into my head on #'s based questions usually aren't too far off from what I've read however long ago. I'd say 80% of the pop experiences some degree of sensation damage. I personally would love to learn percentage of people who get MOTOR nerve damage from these surgeries.. and I'm not talking about a mentalis muscle stitched back too low either.
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damage isn't static. i have nerve sensation damage right now but i've had it before during an accident and it recuperated --it took a while, almost a year the first time, and I expect it to improve now too.
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The first number that pops into my head on #'s based questions usually aren't too far off from what I've read however long ago. I'd say 80% of the pop experiences some degree of sensation damage. I personally would love to learn percentage of people who get MOTOR nerve damage from these surgeries.. and I'm not talking about a mentalis muscle stitched back too low either.
Am I understanding you correctly, and you say 80% of people undergoing a genioplasty experience permanent nerve damage leading to altered sensation?
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from what ive read, and spoke to quite a few surgeons...
you may get some numbness on your lower lip.. and your bottom teeth may have numbness. these are the two main side affects of an SG. in terms of issues with affecting muscles, that doesn't happen unless a big mistake is made.
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I've had 2 genio' and I have a degree of numbness to my lower teeth and incision sight below my chin. Also, you can still get swelling to the area from a knock or applied pressure years after the operation.
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I've had 2 genio' and I have a degree of numbness to my lower teeth and incision sight below my chin. Also, you can still get swelling to the area from a knock or applied pressure years after the operation.
Can you elaborate ?
''Also, you can still get swelling to the area from a knock or applied pressure years after the operation.''
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from what ive read, and spoke to quite a few surgeons...
you may get some numbness on your lower lip.. and your bottom teeth may have numbness. these are the two main side affects of an SG. in terms of issues with affecting muscles, that doesn't happen unless a big mistake is made.
If that chance is over 10% that is easily enough for me to not be able to justify doing it. Any idea of percentages?
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full numbness is very rare. its just small patches, that you forget about. pm me if you have mor questions. ive spoken to a lot of surgeons about this, i probbaly have answers for u.
quote from a surgeon friend ive spoken to about it:
I do them frequently, including 2 this morning. They're very straightforward, especially advancement genios. You'll be sore, but if I had one done I'd expect to be back at work within a week. Only real risk is numbness of the lip (uncommonly permanent but expected for a few weeks) and of the lower front teeth (more common but doesn't bother most people much). If I needed one, I'd have no problem undergoing the procedure.
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Which scenario likely has more permanent risks: 1-undergoing two SG's with minor advancements or 2-getting one very large SG advancement?
I ask because I've had one done(4mm forward and downwards) which didn't cause complications, but thinking of getting another one again with smaller movements.
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Which scenario likely has more permanent risks: 1-undergoing two SG's with minor advancements or 2-getting one very large SG advancement?
I ask because I've had one done(4mm forward and downwards) which didn't cause complications, but thinking of getting another one again with smaller movements.
personally i think the risks are the exact same.. but im not a doctor.
just wondering, did you SG affect your smile at all? ill be getting a strict 7mm advancement and wondering if itll affect my smile... the doctors say it wont... thoughts?
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personally i think the risks are the exact same.. but im not a doctor.
just wondering, did you SG affect your smile at all? ill be getting a strict 7mm advancement and wondering if itll affect my smile... the doctors say it wont... thoughts?
No effect on my smile, no. What it did do was cause my lower lip to roll in a bit, probably because of the added vertical advancement. That's another concern for my second SG, I hope it won't make my lowerlip even smaller.
Your 7mm SG should have no issues at all, pretty standard stuff.
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Am I understanding you correctly, and you say 80% of people undergoing a genioplasty experience permanent nerve damage leading to altered sensation?
Pretty much yep. Consider your surgery a success if all you come out with is mildly annoying sensation changes to your chin and/or lower lip. There's plenty more that also happens too often (IMO) - poorly restitched mentalis muscle, leading to a droopy lower lip (too much lower tooth show), tight and irritating stitch line, and physical step-offs where the bone was chiseled out of position. This surgery's complication profile is why I took the 'safe' route and got a chin implant.. but nope, I still got royally f**ked by the doctor and have motor nerve damage and/or muscle damage to my chin and lower lip, with no clear diagnosis or recourse 2 years post op (even with x-ray's, 2 different cat scans, & mri). If you find your smile to be one of your best features (like I did), then tread extremely cautiously when selecting your op doc.
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Pretty much yep. Consider your surgery a success if all you come out with is mildly annoying sensation changes to your chin and/or lower lip. There's plenty more that also happens too often (IMO) - poorly restitched mentalis muscle, leading to a droopy lower lip (too much lower tooth show), tight and irritating stitch line, and physical step-offs where the bone was chiseled out of position. This surgery's complication profile is why I took the 'safe' route and got a chin implant.. but nope, I still got royally f**ked by the doctor and have motor nerve damage and/or muscle damage to my chin and lower lip, with no clear diagnosis or recourse 2 years post op (even with x-ray's, 2 different cat scans, & mri). If you find your smile to be one of your best features (like I did), then tread extremely cautiously when selecting your op doc.
Yikes, what made you figure those risks out? I can't find much at all about it on the internet, and so far the surgeons I emailed said that any persisting alteration of sensation is almost unheard of.
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percentage is nothing. Always it can be you ..
Any surgery close to nerves = risk of permanent nerve damage. Avoid surgery if the nerves are so important for you
Moreover if you think the nerves are so important for you, you may get irreversible mental problem when the s**t happen
Make a test.
Take a sticky tape and put it on your face on the area supported by a particular nerve
Wear it at least whole day. Do not remove it.
This is how can it be after surgery for the rest of your life. Never better
If you can accept OK undergo surgery
if you think you you would become crazy with such feeling THEN FORGET SURGERY,
This is the best test IMO. Sticky tape on the skin really gives quite similar sensation of not fully recovered sensory nerve.
Dulled feeling and something is pulling the skin. In that way most people feel loss of feeling.
You can get even parasthesia
AND THE MOST IMPORTANT!! ALWAYS DIVIDE BY 2 WHAT SURGEON TELLS YOU.
By the way, take a look here: http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php?topic=6064.msg49573#msg49573
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^^ how the hell do you weigh the pros and cons of surgery? blah
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in the simple way. If you can avoid , then just avoid
if you really need a surgery, you must keep in mind, that something bad may happen. It's really hard decision. It's your life.
Surgery is an ENEMY FOR ALL OF YOU.
I put a link just a while ago on the previous post. Take a look what can happen. There is also another link -> go there
I'm telling you, such complications was not even in the list of possible problems. The percentage was 0 and I got it.
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in the simple way. If you can avoid , then just avoid
if you really need a surgery, you must keep in mind, that something bad may happen. It's really hard decision. It's your life.
Surgery is an ENEMY FOR ALL OF YOU.
I put a link just a while ago on the previous post. Take a look what can happen. There is also another link -> go there
I'm telling you, such complications was not even in the list of possible problems. The percentage was 0 and I got it.
Thanks, I do feel an SG is much simpler and straightforward that your surgery. Literally a cut and slide forward. Maybe some numbness in the lips and chin. But not much can be affected.
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yep... but the point was, what if a permanent numbness get a patient who cannot tolerate it (to the point of agony) and he does not know yet.
Make a test :)
and that's true, my case is unique. The surgeon overlooked my original type of asymmetry, but I took his attention to this fact before surgery.
Simple thing, and anyway it was fu.. up :) so simple thing
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yep... but the point was, what if a permanent numbness get a patient who cannot tolerate it (to the point of agony) and he does not know yet.
Make a test :)
thanks, agreed. ive been thinking about my surgery for over 8 years man. theres a reason for that ;) having a hard time deciding.
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thanks, agreed. ive been thinking about my surgery for over 8 years man. theres a reason for that ;) having a hard time deciding.
I went through the same thing and finally pulled the trigger a couple of months ago. My SG had zero complications but left things to be desired. So my advice would be that if you do get problems from the surgery, it should atleast be a success aesthetically.
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I went through the same thing and finally pulled the trigger a couple of months ago. My SG had zero complications but left things to be desired. So my advice would be that if you do get problems from the surgery, it should atleast be a success aesthetically.
I agree. What was left to be desired btw? Not satisfied? Not sure if you responded to my thread, what're your thoughts?
My biggest concern is my smile being altered. Could probably live with some numbness.
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I agree. What was left to be desired btw? Not satisfied? Not sure if you responded to my thread, what're your thoughts?
My biggest concern is my smile being altered. Could probably live with some numbness.
Not enough advancement and seemingly some asymetry on my part. I plan on getting a second one done.
Smile being affected seems very rare, I haven't seen an example of this yet have you?
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Not enough advancement and seemingly some asymetry on my part. I plan on getting a second one done.
Smile being affected seems very rare, I haven't seen an example of this yet have you?
Nope, my surgeons says it won't change anything. My smile is the one feature I like, hence why.
Btw, how do you feel a few months out? Are you able to run or workout? Swelling still noticeable? Are you willing to PM a picture? I'm wondering, based off my photos if ill get a beneficial noticeable effect with an SG. Sometimes I see before and after of an SG and its not very noticeable. Mine will be 7mm.
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Nope, my surgeons says it won't change anything. My smile is the one feature I like, hence why.
Btw, how do you feel a few months out? Are you able to run or workout? Swelling still noticeable? Are you willing to PM a picture? I'm wondering, based off my photos if ill get a beneficial noticeable effect with an SG. Sometimes I see before and after of an SG and its not very noticeable. Mine will be 7mm.
Here's my thread http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php?topic=5475.msg47117#msg47117
I felt like the notches closed at like 4-6 weeks which is when I started working out again but I could have started earlier. The swelling that was left the last few months was under the chin, so getting more definition there was a great plus.
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Yikes, what made you figure those risks out? I can't find much at all about it on the internet, and so far the surgeons I emailed said that any persisting alteration of sensation is almost unheard of.
It really depends on the doctors skill. I've hit up probably over 20 doctors post botched chin implant surgery, some max facs (local basic ones mostly). How much they hype up the problems with SG vary by surgeon. On a few other forums I've read a fair share of cases where people had such complications with SG's, but you know how forums tend to accumulate with people who were unlucky in their outcomes.
I wish I could sue my first doc for this surgery, but I think he would have had to do more than motor nerve damage for me to have any chance (US).
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It really depends on the doctors skill. I've hit up probably over 20 doctors post botched chin implant surgery, some max facs (local basic ones mostly). How much they hype up the problems with SG vary by surgeon. On a few other forums I've read a fair share of cases where people had such complications with SG's, but you know how forums tend to accumulate with people who were unlucky in their outcomes.
I wish I could sue my first doc for this surgery, but I think he would have had to do more than motor nerve damage for me to have any chance (US).
What surgeon did your chin implant? Was it a reputable surgeon?
Do you have any current views on the safety of implant vs sliding genio, assuming you can be somewhat unbiased despite your own bad experience?
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What surgeon did your chin implant? Was it a reputable surgeon?
Do you have any current views on the safety of implant vs sliding genio, assuming you can be somewhat unbiased despite your own bad experience?
People are afraid of the "low grade" and "permanent" inflammation you supposedly get from your face forever trying to encapsulate the implant(s). I guess if your immune system gets really weak when you get really old, maybe an old implant can get infected and need to be taken out (and probably will leave you looking a lot worse at that age). They may also not 'age well' with your face, but I don't think that's very common when it comes to chin implants (imo). I can PM you the doc... but yes he is a 'reputable' surgeon (just not a big name doc).
If you are freaked by complications of an SG, then I would go with a silicone chin implant for its reversibility (depending on size and patient age) and typically zero permanent complications. Just don't goof and go with a doctor that doesn't do chin implant surgeries in his sleep. Same with SG if you're willing to gamble a bit more. It's a pretty safe bet that, all things equal, an SG will put you at more risk for complications, just by the nature of that surgery, vs an implant. BUT don't get a chin implant through the mouth, you're much better off with an SG if you *must* not have a scar under your chin. If you already have a mild to moderate labiomental fold though and need say 6mm+ advancement, then a chin implant will look stupid and shouldn't really be considered at that point. When I get around to posting my mug, surgery proposals from Gunson etc, you'll see what a 12mm chin implant looks like. ;)
If I could do it all over again, all things considered, an SG with an elite doctor would have been the best all around option.