jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: Lazlo on April 11, 2017, 09:19:58 AM
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I cannot emphasize how much you should NEVER EVER EVER get this procedure. My doctor promised me it would look great. Several people and docs warned against it. Now 9 months after surgery looks like a someone took an ice cream scoop and scooped out a giant chunk of flesh from the side of my face. Does not look aesthetic, "chiselled" or any such thing. LOOKS DEFORMED.
I'll be checking out Dr. Steven Cohen in California because he seems to know how to rejuvenate the area with fat transfer. Problem is, BUCCAL FAT PAD is not like just some fat in your face. It's a actually more like a little muscle or membrane of tissue and once removed it's actually gone and cannot be replaced. You can't just gain fat and it will fill out again. The best you can do is approximate its replenishment by injecting fat back into that area, but it will never be the same shape or density as the tissue that was excised. Its a f**king HORRIBLE procedure. I've never even seen a good result on the web. I was really really stupid for getting it done. Just goes to show you, surgeons can push procedures that are f**king useless and lead to terrible results.
Dr. Sam Lam is one of those surgeons who really advises against this procedure and he was right.
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Thank you for the caution. Sorry you had to suffer with this procedure. :-\
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how was your jaw surgery result?
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Sailer does a good job replacing buccal fat with that cartilage s**t he uses. Hella expensive though.
Yes there are a few other surgeons in the world that use cartilage for augmentation but wouldn't cartilage be too hard to replace buccal fat, Sailer uses cartilage for everything...
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Really devastating to hear bad news after surgeries, wish I could impart more of what I know with you guys to prevent many of you from going through with this stuff.
I'm sorry to say, but it's incredibly foolish from my perspective. The so-called experts on this forum really lack a fundamental understanding of what you're working with here. The 'craft' of a surgeon is nothing more than several very primitive and often times unpredictable tools. Craft is something useful to an artist or engineer, but engineering aesthetics with such a primitive tool set is FOOLISH!
And I should know, I do 3D art for a living. We have pinpoint control over every vertex, and we still get uncanny valley s**t all the time. This really became clear to me when I took my DICOM scan into ZBrush (professional sculpting tool) to create a visualization of what adding volume to the gaunt areas of my face would look like. I think I did a great job, but I also had TOTAL control over this process. I can add/subtract/undo/revert/start over. Surgeons have maybe 10% of this level of control... you can't go back, you can't undo and you don't have the same level of precision. Worse, any pre-visualization is so laughably crude, it's arguably just straight up misleading. Surgical procedures have been sort of warped from 'good enough' corrections of facial deformities to promising perfection - and we aren't even close to there yet.
I hope you're able to correct this Lazlo, but be conservative man... surgeons are just salesmen with a kinda crappy tool set.
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Really devastating to hear bad news after surgeries, wish I could impart more of what I know with you guys to prevent many of you from going through with this stuff.
I'm sorry to say, but it's incredibly foolish from my perspective. The so-called experts on this forum really lack a fundamental understanding of what you're working with here. The 'craft' of a surgeon is nothing more than several very primitive and often times unpredictable tools. Craft is something useful to an artist or engineer, but engineering aesthetics with such a primitive tool set is FOOLISH!
And I should know, I do 3D art for a living. We have pinpoint control over every vertex, and we still get uncanny valley s**t all the time. This really became clear to me when I took my DICOM scan into ZBrush (professional sculpting tool) to create a visualization of what adding volume to the gaunt areas of my face would look like. I think I did a great job, but I also had TOTAL control over this process. I can add/subtract/undo/revert/start over. Surgeons have maybe 10% of this level of control... you can't go back, you can't undo and you don't have the same level of precision. Worse, any pre-visualization is so laughably crude, it's arguably just straight up misleading. Surgical procedures have been sort of warped from 'good enough' corrections of facial deformities to promising perfection - and we aren't even close to there yet.
I hope you're able to correct this Lazlo, but be conservative man... surgeons are just salesmen with a kinda crappy tool set.
You're so right brother. Thanks for being so understanding. And what you explain here is right on. These surgeons are f**king primitives. What blows my mind is that the technology exists for computers and programming to play a much more fundamental role here --there could be a process where your actual skull is modelled and the soft tissue is represented 100 percent to the mm and then very precise instructions for augmentation etc. could be used as a guide. But the f**king surgeons don't even do that. They just eyeball everything. And their eyeballing sucks.
I think with the right fat augmentation approached intraorally as Dr. Steven Cohen (who is also a max fac by the way) can fix this procedure somewhat. But here's what I don't understand. Unless a surgeon is 100 percent sure that a particular procedure will be beneficial then why do they hard sell the procedure????? I was told bicuspid removal would have ZERO NEGATIVE EFFECTS. It ruined my face. And I argued with my ortho several times to wait and not do it and he insisted. Then when it turned out a disaster he says it's nothing. And why was this Buccal fat removal pushed on me!!!!??? I asked several times are you sure its a good idea and it turned out to be just disfiguring and horribly aging which is the exact opposite reason I was having these f**king surgeries.
I have to say, 9 months out from this s**t was it worth it??? Nope. And its quite the negatives are not worth the results. Let's hope there are some major leaps in cosmetic regeneration so i can get a new mouth of teeth, bite and jaw.
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lazlo i'm sorry to hear you this way. i full heartedly agree with jusken, on point analysis.
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http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php?topic=6289.msg51843#msg51843
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IMO every surgeon has a hammer in search of a nail. It's a business after all.
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Lazlo just a thought - is it possible that the reason it looks off is because it only dealt with one part of the face as far as fat is concerned? I don't know your bodyfat levels but if they're quite high mabye it would look quite weird to have fat missing in only one area of the face ?
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I totally agree with Lazlo, buccal fat should not be removed. I have really chubby cheeks and I hate it. I looked at getting this procedure but was warned against it.
It so happens that the chubby cheeks of mine are actually good volume but since i have a short face growth pattern the cheeks are all bunched up. I am hoping once the downgrafting and vertical lengthening of my face is done it will somewhat reduce this issue.
If you hyperfocus on an issue and just address that one thing it might not look great on the whole. 1 + 1 is not equal to 2 in cosmetic surgery
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I totally agree with Lazlo, buccal fat should not be removed. I have really chubby cheeks and I hate it. I looked at getting this procedure but was warned against it.
It so happens that the chubby cheeks of mine are actually good volume but since i have a short face growth pattern the cheeks are all bunched up. I am hoping once the downgrafting and vertical lengthening of my face is done it will somewhat reduce this issue.
If you hyperfocus on an issue and just address that one thing it might not look great on the whole. 1 + 1 is not equal to 2 in cosmetic surgery
I would lose weight first and foremost. I had hamster cheeks as well. Losing 11kg shrunk them completely. The buccal fat is now a tiny little ball that I call barely feel with my fingers.
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I think buccal fat removal makes you look worse if you have recessed or deficient cheekbones to begin with. This doctor claims that in such cases, cheekbone augmentation (fillers or implants) at the same time as buccal fat removal is the best aesthetic option and does give you that chiseled look. Don't know anything about this doctor but it sounds legit. Unfortunately I feel like the last picture attached is somewhat misleading because obviously there are other changes like her nose and her lips, but if you cover that area with your hand then the cheekbone and buccal region still look better than before. http://www.drmesa.com/general/the-myth-that-buccal-fat-removal-can-make-you-look-older/
OP, maybe consider trying some temporary fillers and see if that makes it look any better?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I think buccal fat removal makes you look worse if you have recessed or deficient cheekbones to begin with. This doctor claims that in such cases, cheekbone augmentation (fillers or implants) at the same time as buccal fat removal is the best aesthetic option and does give you that chiseled look. Don't know anything about this doctor but it sounds legit. Unfortunately I feel like the last picture attached is somewhat misleading because obviously there are other changes like her nose and her lips, but if you cover that area with your hand then the cheekbone and buccal region still look better than before. http://www.drmesa.com/general/the-myth-that-buccal-fat-removal-can-make-you-look-older/
OP, maybe consider trying some temporary fillers and see if that makes it look any better?
okay great idea, thanks a lot for the consideration of posting this.
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So... do you look better or worse after all this surgery?
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So... do you look better or worse after all this surgery?
chin is more balanced. Cheek is sunken in on one side. I look the same just a bit different. Go f**k yourself.
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Lazlo , from your history I gather you had 6 mm downgraft. Was that 6 mm both posterior and anterior? That is a substantial movement , How has that impacted your look? Is it holding steady?
Thanks.
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Fat grafting could certainly do the trick if done by the right surgeon. You will likely have to top it off with some filler to mimic the density of the bucanator complex, but i think it can be done, AFAIK. Keep us posted, i hope you become beautiful so u can dance in the rain.
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Fat grafting could certainly do the trick if done by the right surgeon. You will likely have to top it off with some filler to mimic the density of the bucanator complex, but i think it can be done, AFAIK. Keep us posted, i hope you become beautiful so u can dance in the rain.
You're sweet, thanks. I won't stop till beautiful!
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Lazlo , from your history I gather you had 6 mm downgraft. Was that 6 mm both posterior and anterior? That is a substantial movement , How has that impacted your look? Is it holding steady?
Thanks.
Dunno about that, but I do show more teeth and it has remained steady. Feels good frankly on that end. Maybe relapsed a mm or two.
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chin is more balanced. Cheek is sunken in on one side. I look the same just a bit different. Go f**k yourself.
Still a twat then ;D
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Still a twat then ;D
Yeah basically.
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I was considering getting this because I always look 100x better when I suck in my cheeks. I thought it would give you a similar result.
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I was considering getting this because I always look 100x better when I suck in my cheeks. I thought it would give you a similar result.
I thought the same. The reality is, you need bone projection to make the hollow model cheek look.
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I was considering getting this because I always look 100x better when I suck in my cheeks. I thought it would give you a similar result.
yeah TOTALLY does not work that way. It actually just creates this very f**ked up scooped out thing in your cheek that makes it look like you were mauled by parasites. Its terrible honestly. There are many doctors on the internet who just axiomatically proclaim how terrible this procedure is and I should have paid attention to them. It's hands down a terrible procedure and I'm being so emphatic because I don''t want people to suffer like I have. In fact, just think about it, as you age it will look even ten times worse.
And the worst thing is while you may be able to get fat or dermal filler to mask it, once this fat pad is gone it's totally gone and has caused a collapse in your cheek, it's not like fat on your stomach or something that can get back. It's actually not even really fat its more like a gland that is attached in a membraneous pocket of your cheek. Once removed its gone. I don't evne know if reinjecting fat in there will take.
JUST DON'T GET IT DONE!!
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yeah TOTALLY does not work that way. It actually just creates this very f**ked up scooped out thing in your cheek that makes it look like you were mauled by parasites. Its terrible honestly. There are many doctors on the internet who just axiomatically proclaim how terrible this procedure is and I should have paid attention to them. It's hands down a terrible procedure and I'm being so emphatic because I don''t want people to suffer like I have. In fact, just think about it, as you age it will look even ten times worse.
And the worst thing is while you may be able to get fat or dermal filler to mask it, once this fat pad is gone it's totally gone and has caused a collapse in your cheek, it's not like fat on your stomach or something that can get back. It's actually not even really fat its more like a gland that is attached in a membraneous pocket of your cheek. Once removed its gone. I don't evne know if reinjecting fat in there will take.
JUST DON'T GET IT DONE!!
welp guess I'd be better off just running perma-cheeksuck game when I'm out in public. wonder if I can train myself to talk like this
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Lazlo, what's your consensus on jaw surgery?
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Lazlo, what's your consensus on jaw surgery?
Dunno man. I mean I think it helped my case but I might have been fine iwth just a ciin-wing or genioplasty. It's not a huge aesthetic improvement, that's for sure.
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Thanks for sharing your experience with buccal fat pad removal. I've seen one guy who had that procedure done and it didn't look bad - he did look a bit older than his mid-20s age, which might have related to the procedure.
In the past I had interest in this procedure and never had a surgeon recommend it. One did recommend repositioning or partially resecting the buccal fat pads.
I did have perioral liposuction which I'm pleased with- I'm less pudgy to the sides of the mouth. I had several cc's of fat removed on each side.
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based on realself.com, that's one of the main reasons why this procedure is systematically not recommended by doctors. And things go worse as you age.
I think that there might be a place for some version of the procedure (partial resection, for instance) for some individuals. I think that it's probably not a good "definition-enhancing" choice for the large majority of people. In that regard, I thought this was interesting:
(http://reader21.docslide.net/store21/html5/352016/5750293e1a28ab877ec6c6be/bg3.png)
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I think that there might be a place for some version of the procedure (partial resection, for instance) for some individuals. I think that it's probably not a good "definition-enhancing" choice for the large majority of people. In that regard, I thought this was interesting:
(http://reader21.docslide.net/store21/html5/352016/5750293e1a28ab877ec6c6be/bg3.png)
NO THERE IS NO PLACE FOR THIS PROCEDURE. NONE. Those people above have hypertrophy of muscles in their face and very strong bone structure. Also, completely incorrect those people had resection of the muscles themselves not just the fat pad.
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You can replace buccal fat in the face once it has been removed. It is very easy.
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Is there anything possible like this for the upperlip? I always hated my fat philtrum.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1QixWqRlio
"Buccal fat grafting can be done under general or local anesthesia. This video shows the simple procedure in which Dr. Cohen removes fat from the patients abdomen and injects it into the buccal fat pad region, restoring lost volume to the face."