jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Aesthetics => Topic started by: whatdo on June 01, 2017, 01:34:16 PM
-
Still trying to wrap my head around double jaw surgery vs a chin wing as someone with no functional issues.
I've been doing some reading and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems having double jaw surgery means a potential for some things:
-Tightening of the skin
-No more vertical lip
-Harmonious look between jaws (hard to explain but its like not a perma - jut I feel like I would have post chin wing)
-Nasolabial fold reduction
These are essentially what aren't addressed for a chin wing, right? A chin wing would address the lower jaw recession (meaning it would provide enough projection), right?
I guess what other benefits would double jaw surgery have (functional benefits aside) over a chin wing? Couldn't really find anything on chin wing relapse issues I'm guessing because there isn't enough data? Both surgeons I've spoken with seem to think chin wing is ideal since there is a small occlusion, but I am just not sure.
Really just trying to see if I can narrow down the double jaw surgery vs just a chin wing decision.
Edit: attaching ceph: http://imgur.com/tE15gTA
-
In your specific case - I would suggest getting a CW and if not satisfied consider bimax.
-
In your specific case - I would suggest getting a CW and if not satisfied consider bimax.
You can get bimax after a chin wing? How does that work? Wouldn't the chin wing make it much more difficult to advance the lower jaw?
-
Bigger airway.
-
In general yes. But What do has so far stated he has no airway issues iirc.
Go Chin wing Whatdo.
-
In general yes. But What do has so far stated he has no airway issues iirc.
Go Chin wing Whatdo.
I really liked Gunson's morph. I don't think OP appreciates how good it is. Whether it will turn out like that is another matter.
-
Yeah but cost/(perceived) benefit ratio must be appraised. If hes not happy with 8 k cw , He can go Bimax. But why make the 55 k investment first when maybe he can get an acceptable outcome with a CW.
From PMs it did not seem like he just had the 55 k stashed under his bed.
just my 2 cents.
-
I mean cost is a factor but I think having something done right and the "best option" is more important. It's really the issues (like soft tissue changes, relapse, etc) of jaw surgery that are holding me back from committing.
I want to come at this decision based solely on aesthetic benefit. If a chin wing comes within 90% of the bimax result and the 10% is something I can deal with, it seems a chin wing would be good but I am not sure. (hypothetical)
Would jaw surgery do anything that is crucial to looks? I can think the lip and fold help but anything else? Aging wise would more bone support be ideal? I can think the front profile after a chin wing with a slightly recessed maxilla would give a weird look to the lip area, no?
I just want to make the right decision. I know it relies on me ultimately, but the advice and opinions help.
-
Cheapest option - grow a beard.
-
Cheapest option - grow a beard.
Lol. True, but I look even worse with a beard.
-
Tbh I do not think your jaws are your biggest issue. Ideally recessed/hypoplastic cases should do both. Bimax + A CW or 2.
-
Tbh I do not think your jaws are your biggest issue. Ideally recessed/hypoplastic cases should do both. Bimax + A CW or 2.
Yeah, I figure a bimax and a chin wing would give good results but I don't know if I have that kind of motivation or even what the results will yield.
I mean I like the protrusive jaw look, I want to fix the recession but it comes back to the trade offs between just a chin wing and just bimax or even bimax + chin wing.
I think my eyes, jaws, nose, flat face/cheeks are my main issues. Although the more and more I look at my face and side profile I notice more and more issues.
-
I did not mean to infer you have any ginormous "issues" that MUST be cured.
However if you are interested in improving your looks , your jaws will likely just reap marginal - mild rewards because they are not so recessed/bad.
Just ask Gunson if he will do a bimax after a CW. iDk why not.
-
chin wing is ironically the worst when its used for what it was actually designed for IMO - as a camoflage treatment for bites corrected purely through orthodontics....
When its used purely for aesthetic benefit like lowering jaw angles or vertically enhancing chin, I think it's best. Its not a good substitute for what bimax does IMO, and realizing this is probably why surgeons like Z do them together if the patient wants.
The problem with using it as a profile correction is its only correcting the lower border of the mandible... you will still have a recessed mouth area.
-
Yeah but cost/(perceived) benefit ratio must be appraised. If hes not happy with 8 k cw , He can go Bimax. But why make the 55 k investment first when maybe he can get an acceptable outcome with a CW.
From PMs it did not seem like he just had the 55 k stashed under his bed.
just my 2 cents.
If you have to travel to get a chin wing, you might as well enquire with those same surgeons in europe about bimax. It should not cost anything close to 55k.... even someone Raffaini is only something like ~20k euro all included (which is about 22k usd) for bimax CCW and that is a surgery first approach which is ideal for someone with no bite/functional issues.
-
All good advice from ppsk.
Just , not sure if this guy is that recessed.
Also , about the bimax + CW in Europe approach , that is obvious but unless I am mistaken the surgeon indicated he would not do Bimax on whatdo. But I am not sure.
-
chin wing is ironically the worst when its used for what it was actually designed for IMO - as a camoflage treatment for bites corrected purely through orthodontics....
When its used purely for aesthetic benefit like lowering jaw angles or vertically enhancing chin, I think it's best. Its not a good substitute for what bimax does IMO, and realizing this is probably why surgeons like Z do them together if the patient wants.
The problem with using it as a profile correction is its only correcting the lower border of the mandible... you will still have a recessed mouth area.
By not a good substitute you are referring to functional corrections from bimax, right? The recessed mouth area would mostly be lip incompetence, right?
If you have to travel to get a chin wing, you might as well enquire with those same surgeons in europe about bimax. It should not cost anything close to 55k.... even someone Raffaini is only something like ~20k euro all included (which is about 22k usd) for bimax CCW and that is a surgery first approach which is ideal for someone with no bite/functional issues.
I have asked about bimax w/ ccw from surgeons but I get a toss up. Two local surgeons said they only suggest the lower jaw. Gunson said both, two European docs suggested just a chin wing given there is no big occlusion. It really just leaves me back at square one wondering if undergoing, not from so much a cost perspective, but an aesthetic one, if jaw surgery is worth it vs a chin wing.
I did not mean to infer you have any ginormous "issues" that MUST be cured.
However if you are interested in improving your looks , your jaws will likely just reap marginal - mild rewards because they are not so recessed/bad.
Just ask Gunson if he will do a bimax after a CW. iDk why not.
I know. I don't think they are "huge" issues, but I want to fix my appearance yet at the same time, make the right choices.
To me, it seems like if I did go down the bimax route, I would later find my upper third has recession and needs fixing as well in order to compensate for the jaws being moved forward.
All good advice from ppsk.
Just , not sure if this guy is that recessed.
Also , about the bimax + CW in Europe approach , that is obvious but unless I am mistaken the surgeon indicated he would not do Bimax on whatdo. But I am not sure.
I posted my ceph before and can again if it helps. The surgeons in Europe didn't flat out say no, just suggested a chin wing instead when I inquired about a recommendation of bimax or chin wing.
-
I gathered from your PM he had said No. He has to others.
Well , then , when you meet him it's all up for discussion. Tbh you will be running around in circles if you do this from the keyboard. Go see some B n As , ask which ones are bimax + CW , which CW alone and so forth. Its not fool proof but should give you an idea. And yeah if European surgeons agree to bimax , you could follow that up with a CW. I know 2 cases like that , turned out pretty good.
Good luck.
-
I gathered from your PM he had said No. He has to others.
Well , then , when you meet him it's all up for discussion. Tbh you will be running around in circles if you do this from the keyboard. Go see some B n As , ask which ones are bimax + CW , which CW alone and so forth. Its not fool proof but should give you an idea. And yeah if European surgeons agree to bimax , you could follow that up with a CW. I know 2 cases like that , turned out pretty good.
Good luck.
+1
AFAIK zarrinbal does something like chin wing + a lip surgery to mimic the effects of an LF1.... this might be a healthy compromise.
-
+1
AFAIK zarrinbal does something like chin wing + a lip surgery to mimic the effects of an LF1.... this might be a healthy compromise.
yes he puts some cartilage under your upper lip, makes it look like the maxilla was advanced
-
I gathered from your PM he had said No. He has to others.
Well , then , when you meet him it's all up for discussion. Tbh you will be running around in circles if you do this from the keyboard. Go see some B n As , ask which ones are bimax + CW , which CW alone and so forth. Its not fool proof but should give you an idea. And yeah if European surgeons agree to bimax , you could follow that up with a CW. I know 2 cases like that , turned out pretty good.
Good luck.
Thanks, yeah I am going to see if he can schedule me for a consult. +1
AFAIK zarrinbal does something like chin wing + a lip surgery to mimic the effects of an LF1.... this might be a healthy compromise.
yes he puts some cartilage under your upper lip, makes it look like the maxilla was advanced
That sounds like it would be a very good compromise. Thank you for telling me about this!
-
yes he puts some cartilage under your upper lip, makes it look like the maxilla was advanced
Onlay grafts resorb eventually (unless it's lyophilized).