jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => General Chat => Topic started by: Austinou88 on August 04, 2018, 06:51:35 PM
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What are my options with having beady close set eyes?
I'm trying to get in with a good Oculoplastic surgeon soon, and am wondering if much improvement is even possible with the orbital area?
http://imgur.com/a/eU2Nqpr
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Surgery will not make your eye to eye distance wider.
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What are my options with having beady close set eyes?
I'm trying to get in with a good Oculoplastic surgeon soon, and am wondering if much improvement is even possible with the orbital area?
http://imgur.com/a/eU2Nqpr
you'll have to see a couple surgeons. but first you need to make your eyes more wide set. for that you'll need an orbital box osteotomy to create wide set eyes.
only one who will do it is anthony s. wolfe in florida and i'd google him and get the ball rolling fast cause he'll probably retire in a year or so.
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then only after that you can go to an oculoplastic surgeon to have the eye shape changed. but you're main problem right now is the eyes are too close set.
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Surgery will not make your eye to eye distance wider.
Of course it will!!
http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php?topic=7106.msg64822#new
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you'll have to see a couple surgeons. but first you need to make your eyes more wide set. for that you'll need an orbital box osteotomy to create wide set eyes.
only one who will do it is anthony s. wolfe in florida and i'd google him and get the ball rolling fast cause he'll probably retire in a year or so.
Lazlo,
Do you think doing an orbital box osteotomy for a non syndrome patient who is probably, at worst, in the 10th to 20th percentile for that measure of eye distance - - is going to be done any ethical surgeon ?
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Of course it will!!
http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php?topic=7106.msg64822#new
...and this goes to Lazlo too....
Then let Wolfe DISCLOSE he does such surgeries for non syndromatic patients. Do you have any information as to a non syndrome patient such as the OP having this surgery by Wolfe where Wolfe would admit/disclose he does so and would do so for such a patient?
IMO, a doctor who would do so for a non syndrome patient would do so on the condition would NOT disclose he/she had such a surgery and certainly be unlikely to disclose such on a public forum and for reasons, it could be considered unethical.
Unless you can find a NON syndrome member on here who would be willing to disclose they had this done (and post photos), who would NOT be PRECLUDED by Wolfe for such a disclosure, please refrain from further encouraging the pursuit of this procedure.
Have either you or Lazlo had this surgery by Wolfe or is this more of matter of sending someone ELSE off as a guinea pig to do it for the purpose of 'finding out' if it works out?
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Lazlo,
Do you think doing an orbital box osteotomy for a non syndrome patient who is probably, at worst, in the 10th to 20th percentile for that measure of eye distance - - is going to be done any ethical surgeon ?
It would most likely be done by a surgeon who would PRECLUDE (non disclosure agreement) the patient disclosing he had it. That would be so because peers would consider it ethically questionable for a non syndrome patient.
It's looking that the OP is being ENCOURAGED by both Lazlo and Lestat to pursue this, perhaps so both can gain more info by having someone ELSE do it. However, IF the OP did it via encouragement by both of them, in particular the encouragement to 'report back' to them, the OP would be precluded via a non disclosure agreement from doing so, would be a violation of contract and the OP could be sued by the doctor if he passed info about it to either of them or anyone else.
I have NO REASON to think the doctor would like to be KNOWN for performing this procedure on non syndrome patients.
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The ethical question is a non starter.
All depends on the doctor.
There is ONLY ONE WAY TO IMPROVE CLOSE SET EYES which are indeed a real problem for aesthetics.
ORBITAL BOX OSTEOTOMY.
I'm not encouraging anyone to get it. I'm only saying if its a problem you want to address here's a doctor who will do it. And you're wasting your time and money with anything else. I'm only encouraging people to consult with the doctor in question and find out what they want to know. If they feel its safe and will produce the results they want then they have to make that decision.
People like Earl, Plosko, and I would include myself are doing this board a service by sharing our experiences and knowledge of doctors we've heard about or consulted with.
I'm the first person to tell people to NOT DO SOMETHING based on my research and even things I've submitted myself to.
DON'T GET EXTRACTIONS. (I've had this done and am permanently ruined cause of it)
DON"T GET BUCCAL FAT REMOVAL AT ANY COST. (I've had it done and am permanently scarred from it)
DON"T GET A LIP LIFT. (Don't a ton of research will always leave a terrible gash-like scar no matter what any doctor says).
And I and other have submitted ourselves as guinea pigs to all sorts of docs and have shared our good or bad experiences here.
OP you have close set eyes. Only doc I've heard who will fix that is Wolfe. Get a consult with him and find out what the deal is. And then share it here cause you'll be helping others like you. I don't need that procedure but others do.
End of story.
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The ethical question is a non starter.
All depends on the doctor.
There is ONLY ONE WAY TO IMPROVE CLOSE SET EYES which are indeed a real problem for aesthetics.
ORBITAL BOX OSTEOTOMY.
I'm not encouraging anyone to get it. I'm only saying if its a problem you want to address here's a doctor who will do it. And you're wasting your time and money with anything else. I'm only encouraging people to consult with the doctor in question and find out what they want to know. If they feel its safe and will produce the results they want then they have to make that decision.
People like Earl, Plosko, and I would include myself are doing this board a service by sharing our experiences and knowledge of doctors we've heard about or consulted with.
I'm the first person to tell people to NOT DO SOMETHING based on my research and even things I've submitted myself to.
DON'T GET EXTRACTIONS. (I've had this done and am permanently ruined cause of it)
DON"T GET BUCCAL FAT REMOVAL AT ANY COST. (I've had it done and am permanently scarred from it)
DON"T GET A LIP LIFT. (Don't a ton of research will always leave a terrible gash-like scar no matter what any doctor says).
And I and other have submitted ourselves as guinea pigs to all sorts of docs and have shared our good or bad experiences here.
OP you have close set eyes. Only doc I've heard who will fix that is Wolfe. Get a consult with him and find out what the deal is. And then share it here cause you'll be helping others like you. I don't need that procedure but others do.
End of story.
You were encouraging him to pursue it. I guess the OP can do what he wants to his face. But if he does, he doesn't owe anyone here any details. He can keep it secret. Just like any doc offering to him would want it to be.
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From what I've seen Dr. Wolfe does not issue gag orders or keep it secret that he does any of these procedures.
From someone who had a consult with him I have heard he said: "I don't need a neurosurgeon, neurosurgeons come to me for advice. I've done this procedure many, many times and the risks are very low."
So I'm just saying, he's a guy who does it and he doesn't use a neurosurgeon which would make the cost much more affordable I thnk.
And yes, if you want to widen your eye distance you need to get this procedure. DO IT!!!! (just kidding) I mean research it, get a consult, ask about risks and then see if it would work out for you. IF it does and you want to help others on this forum out, tell us about your consult. The advantage there is you can crowdsource further about what the doctor says and get more opinions before you jump into anything potentially not that great for you.
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It would most likely be done by a surgeon who would PRECLUDE (non disclosure agreement) the patient disclosing he had it. That would be so because peers would consider it ethically questionable for a non syndrome patient.
It's looking that the OP is being ENCOURAGED by both Lazlo and Lestat to pursue this, perhaps so both can gain more info by having someone ELSE do it. However, IF the OP did it via encouragement by both of them, in particular the encouragement to 'report back' to them, the OP would be precluded via a non disclosure agreement from doing so, would be a violation of contract and the OP could be sued by the doctor if he passed info about it to either of them or anyone else.
I have NO REASON to think the doctor would like to be KNOWN for performing this procedure on non syndrome patients.
I have run this (and variations) of this same question past three world class craniofacial surgeons, including two who, each, at different times, also directly trained under Tessier in the 1970s and 1980s (as did Dr. Wolf ).
Kavan, you have this exactly "right."
PS. Also, I doubt it would even be ethical for a surgeon to ask a patient to agree to not disclose who did the patient's surgeries.
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I have run this (and variations) of this same question past three world class craniofacial surgeons, including two who, each, at different times, also directly trained under Tessier in the 1970s and 1980s (as did Dr. Wolf ).
Kavan, you have this exactly "right."
PS. Also, I doubt it would even be ethical for a surgeon to ask a patient to agree to not disclose who did the patient's surgeries.
Oh yeah doctor's can totally ask for non-disclosure agreements. Also, I don't think there's anything unethical about this.
From what I've learned the docs who can do this say the risks are superminimal. I know Sinn says there is very little risk. So there you go.
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DON'T GET EXTRACTIONS. (I've had this done and am permanently ruined cause of it)
End of story.
What kind of extractions do you mean? teeth?
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...and this goes to Lazlo too....
Then let Wolfe DISCLOSE he does such surgeries for non syndromatic patients. Do you have any information as to a non syndrome patient such as the OP having this surgery by Wolfe where Wolfe would admit/disclose he does so and would do so for such a patient?
IMO, a doctor who would do so for a non syndrome patient would do so on the condition would NOT disclose he/she had such a surgery and certainly be unlikely to disclose such on a public forum and for reasons, it could be considered unethical.
Unless you can find a NON syndrome member on here who would be willing to disclose they had this done (and post photos), who would NOT be PRECLUDED by Wolfe for such a disclosure, please refrain from further encouraging the pursuit of this procedure.
Have either you or Lazlo had this surgery by Wolfe or is this more of matter of sending someone ELSE off as a guinea pig to do it for the purpose of 'finding out' if it works out?
Just contact the surgeon(s) mentioned. Most likely they'll say no to performing a box osteotomy.
If they say yes & they make you sign a non-disclosure agreement then think about what the implications are. Do you trust someone who doesn't trust themselves?
If they don't make you sign a non-disclosure agreement (& provided you've read the appropriate scientific literature & perhaps take some initiative to ask REAL surgeons with experience about the risks, complications etc) then go from there. It's not like you'll be able to afford it straight off the bat anyway.
I know nothing about the matter but BE CAREFUL. I'm only basing this off of how the surgery looks & the areas in question, but this doesn't seem like something that should be taken lightly. I'd advise against it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4154976/
https://deschamps-braly.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Hypertelorism_Correction___What_Happens_with.28.pdf
See for yourself.
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In the latter study:
1) 95 patients total
2) 72 of these patients were less than 8 years old
3) 23 patients were in the older age group (9-27 yrs)
4) The average age of this group was 16.7
5) There were two mortalities, one being a 20 yr old woman
Now we have to assume a few things from what we know. I only skimmed through the study so someone feel free to correct me.
Using more common knowledge & points (1) & (2) we can assume that most patients that undergo BO are young children, specifically < 8 years old.
So then we can assume that the ages in the older group follows a normal binomial distribution with positive skew with most of the ages being less than the mean of 16.7 years.
Now realise that there were 95 BO's performed since 1971. 23 of these had patients older than 8. Most likely, less than half of these would be >17. Lets just be generous and say that leaves us with 6/7 adult patients. One of these patients DIED.
Now theres A LOT wrong with the statistical inference I displayed here (anyone with a background in stats kindly save me the lecture) & perhaps I'm scaremongering but honestly the point is there's probably a REASON this isn't commonly done among adults for aesthetic reasons.
If you want to educate yourself & in doing so you discover that there isn't & that it's just people being scared or something then good for you! But otherwise be careful.
We can't fix EVERYTHING that we'd like to fix. Be realistic & focus your efforts into fixing what you can, whether thats concerns aesthetics or your mental wellbeing.
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What kind of extractions do you mean? teeth?
He means don't get teeth extracted to camouflage a skeletal deformity. Extractions are fine and sometimes necessary for surgical cases.
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Oh yeah doctor's can totally ask for non-disclosure agreements. Also, I don't think there's anything unethical about this.
From what I've learned the docs who can do this say the risks are superminimal. I know Sinn says there is very little risk. So there you go.
A doctor requiring a GAG order is a red flag for highly skewed disproportionate information/feedback. In the case of reviews, the poor ethics come in when doctors use them to selectively preclude patients from mentioning an unfavorable result. That, in turns skews the reviews to mostly or only positive reviews, in which case available patient feedback on the procedure is disproportionate and misleading to other potential patients.
That's WHY it should be determined whether or not Wolfe would require a gag order for this.
Did Sinn also tell you there were minimal risks to the buccal fat extraction he did for you?
Rhetorical question because 'risk' for the patient even with a successful surgery is not liking the outcome and the costs associated with an aesthetic outcome they are dissatisfied with.
As to the OP, the surgery you are suggesting he pursue, even if successful (and god knows the costs) would just make his 'small beady eyes' a few mms further apart. It will not relieve him of the smallness of them. So even if little 'medical risk' with the doctors you mention, there still exists the risk of aesthetic dissatisfaction.
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As to the OP, the surgery you are suggesting he pursue, even if successful (and god knows the costs) would just make his 'small beady eyes' a few mms further apart. It will not relieve him of the smallness of them. So even if little 'medical risk' with the doctors you mention, there still exists the risk of aesthetic dissatisfaction.
Box osteotomy is not the solution. According to users on this forum though there is a solution. Figure out what makes a male eye aesthetically pleasing and search the appropriate terms.
/thread
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Just contact the surgeon(s) mentioned. Most likely they'll say no to performing a box osteotomy.
If they say yes & they make you sign a non-disclosure agreement then think about what the implications are. Do you trust someone who doesn't trust themselves?
If they don't make you sign a non-disclosure agreement (& provided you've read the appropriate scientific literature & perhaps take some initiative to ask REAL surgeons with experience about the risks, complications etc) then go from there. It's not like you'll be able to afford it straight off the bat anyway.
I know nothing about the matter but BE CAREFUL. I'm only basing this off of how the surgery looks & the areas in question, but this doesn't seem like something that should be taken lightly. I'd advise against it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4154976/
https://deschamps-braly.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Hypertelorism_Correction___What_Happens_with.28.pdf
See for yourself.
Thanx for the information you provided. I do think that the OP if he consults should find out IF he would have to sign a gag order. Even if he doesn't and can the surgery with said doctor, he still would be left with what he describes as; 'beady small eyes'. They will just be further apart. Then will come the need to also make them horizontally WIDER as to increase the distance between inner to outer eye (increase APERTURE of eye) which to the best of my knowledge is a pot shot pursuit. In fact if you look at the doctor answers on RealSelf, a lot of doctors avoid telling the patient that can't be done. Instead, they get around the direct question and give suggestions as to the surgeries they CAN do.
Here's a link to RS where the person asks a very DIRECT question as to if the aperture can be made horizontally wider. Note that most of the docs circumvent the question, asking for photos where, in fact, no photos are needed to ask about a surgery that can make the apertures horizontally wider or they just don't confirm surgeries to make the eyes horizontally wider. Just one of them tells the patient she might be unhappy with it. Although a cantho procedure could help SLIGHTLY, for the most part it is to uptilt the outer corner. It is most certainly not a thing for someone having in the back of their mind they want 'hunter eyes' those very horizontally long and vertically narrow eyes male models have.
Anyway, I think the OP should FIRST consult with an occuplastic surgeon (and he should give the NAME just in case it's an unethical one I know of) to establish IF he can get a surgery to make eyes HORIZONTALLY wider that is NOT a cantho aimed at just uptilting them, lest he find out the hard way after a procedure to increase the eye to eye distance just leaves him with the same small eyes just set further apart.
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Box osteotomy is not the solution. According to users on this forum though there is a solution. Figure out what makes a male eye aesthetically pleasing and search the appropriate terms.
/thread
What makes the male eye aesthetically pleasing is basically what male models have going on to the eyes which is a horizontally WIDE aperture; horizontally 'long' palpebral fissure . Basically what they call 'hunter eyes' and BETWEEN them the width of 'one eye'. Both are factors. If he gets the distance between both eyes made wider, they could not make it much wider than his horizontally NARROW width of 'ONE eye' and highly unlikely to have surgery to significantly increase the 'one eye' width. (palpebral fissure)
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What makes the male eye aesthetically pleasing is basically what male models have going on to the eyes which is a horizontally WIDE aperture; horizontally 'long' palpebral fissure . Basically what they call 'hunter eyes' and BETWEEN them the width of 'one eye'. Both are factors. If he gets the distance between both eyes made wider, they could not make it much wider than his horizontally NARROW width of 'ONE eye' and highly unlikely to have surgery to significantly increase the 'one eye' width. (palpebral fissure)
Exactly. I don’t want to mislead OP but I’m sure you’re aware of one thread on the matter. All aspects have been discussed however until talking to the surgeon in question I’d call it speculative at best.
A final note to OP, the medial canthus plays an important role in the perceived width of the eye. Shape and horizontal length of it matter. Unfortunately there’s nothing that can be done to address it. Just saying.
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So what do you think my option is?
Going to see Dr. Wolfe, or see someone like Dr. Taban who performs a lot of different eyes surgerys's like Canthoplastys?
Either one I could do.
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You would have to see both and tell both about both surgeries you are wanting to establish which one is to be done first. Box osteo would increase distance between the eyes but you still would have what you describe as 'beady small eyes' which would just be further apart from each other. Lets assume Wolfe would do a box osteo. (no idea but take the assumption for the logic that follows). So, you would want to find out FIRST whether the 'eye guy' could actually make your eyes horizontally wider and significantly so. Cantho won't yield horizontally wider eyes. But they will try to 'sell' it. It might not be done first but it needs to be cross referenced first if you are to get a box osteo to separate distance between eyes and will LATER need to ALSO make them horizontally wider since that is a problem in ADDITION to them being close set. You don't want to find out LATER after you get box osteo that all it does is make your small eyes further apart yet can't be complimented with a surgery that increases the WIDTH of the eye (palprebral fissure) significantly so. Based on my searches on Real Self, a lot of doctors AVOID answering the 'small eye' question directly and will just suggest other things they can do (be employed by). Like they avoid telling you outright that the palprebal fissure 'length' (width of the eye aperture) can't be significantly widened. Neither of these surgeries INDIVIDUALLY will give you what you want. It would take BOTH.
Again, if we assume the box osteo could be done, you would also want to find out if a surgery for significant width to the eye could be done and you would want to find that out BEFORE you invest in box osteo even if you are to get the direct eye surgery after it. I have NO reason to believe that 'hunter eyes' or anything close to that can be done even to people who's 'beady small eyes' (your description not mine) are naturally set further apart.
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Kavan is correct on every point. Eyes cannot be made horizontally wider. They can be made to look wider by making them vertically narrower, but that's only worth it for those with big prominent eyes. Not your case.
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From what I've seen Dr. Wolfe does not issue gag orders or keep it secret that he does any of these procedures.
From someone who had a consult with him I have heard he said: "I don't need a neurosurgeon, neurosurgeons come to me for advice. I've done this procedure many, many times and the risks are very low."
So I'm just saying, he's a guy who does it and he doesn't use a neurosurgeon which would make the cost much more affordable I thnk.
. . .
Laz, I do not think you understand what the underlying issue really is. It is a hospital risk mitigation requirement.
Unless Dr. Wolf does those procedures in his own office surgery facility (which is almost inconceivable - - for that type of surgery, with the potential for that much blood loss) I am pretty sure that the hospital in which he does those procedures will require, as a matter of policy and credentialing, that a neurosurgeon be present when the brain is exposed by another surgeon who is not a neurosurgeon.
I know a neurosurgeon who attends those types of procedures. He seldom has to actually do anything but be helpful and "be there" in case something that is within the "wheel house" of the neurosurgeon arises during the surgery and that requires the immediate attention of the neurosurgeon.
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Yeah honestly OP you're gonna need to see a few different people.
Reconsidering things I think probably see Taban (occuloplastic surgeon) first. And ask him about making eyes larger and more wide-set. He doesn't do the op but might know someone who does. of course you know wolfe will do it. but i don't think he can help with size of eyes which you also need to have made larger.
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Oh forgot to add a link. This wasn't the link I wanted to add but they are all similar where the docs AVOID telling the patient like it is and just use/ DIVERT the question and 'answers' to it to NOT answer the question. Instead the look for things that they can do.
https://www.realself.com/question/new-york-ny-1-hunter-eyes-surgery#
Many links where the realself docs avoid giving the real answer which would be an admission they can't do what your asking them if can be done. All they do is divert focus on what they can do and they CAN'T do the 'hunter eye' look and they AVOID telling you that outright and instead devote themselves to other things they can do.
Stiensapir, is an 'eye guy'. He tells the patient he has upper lid ptosis with high eyebrows. So he looks for what he can do but avoids answering directly as to the hunter eyes the male model has which are function of his brow bone being forward and his internal orbit anatomy and NOT a direct function of the model squinting as he tells the patient. So, he doesn't tell the guy no way he will get the eyes he wants. Avoids telling why and just demeans his colleagues who 'don't understand what's going on. He doesn't either.
Next comes a DOLT of a doctor (Benjamin Paul) tells the patient wanting hunter eyes that the models eyebrows are 'ptotic' or 'droopy' and the patient should try some botox. The models brows are NOT droopy. They are low due to his brow bone being forward and also other relationships going on within the orbit. Then he IDs the canthal tilt as a reason the model has 'hunter eyes'. NOT SO either. Because the model does NOT have an upward lateral canthus. He has a downward medial canthus. Something else they CAN'T do. So he suggests something he can do which canthopexy to uptilt the lateral corners.
The other doc, James Gordon is also a dummy. He too tells the patient the models brows are ptotic (droopy) which is WRONG for reasons cited above.
Point I'm making is this is one of the BIGGEST AVOIDANCE questions out there, even with a lot of eye guys. Chances they will advise you in terms of employment opportunities for themselves and avoid direct answer to question (which is NO) that they can't give anything close to hunter eyes or make small eyes much wider. They will just find and suggest something else for them to do.
Thanx for the information you provided. I do think that the OP if he consults should find out IF he would have to sign a gag order. Even if he doesn't and can the surgery with said doctor, he still would be left with what he describes as; 'beady small eyes'. They will just be further apart. Then will come the need to also make them horizontally WIDER as to increase the distance between inner to outer eye (increase APERTURE of eye) which to the best of my knowledge is a pot shot pursuit. In fact if you look at the doctor answers on RealSelf, a lot of doctors avoid telling the patient that can't be done. Instead, they get around the direct question and give suggestions as to the surgeries they CAN do.
Here's a link to RS where the person asks a very DIRECT question as to if the aperture can be made horizontally wider. Note that most of the docs circumvent the question, asking for photos where, in fact, no photos are needed to ask about a surgery that can make the apertures horizontally wider or they just don't confirm surgeries to make the eyes horizontally wider. Just one of them tells the patient she might be unhappy with it. Although a cantho procedure could help SLIGHTLY, for the most part it is to uptilt the outer corner. It is most certainly not a thing for someone having in the back of their mind they want 'hunter eyes' those very horizontally long and vertically narrow eyes male models have.
Anyway, I think the OP should FIRST consult with an occuplastic surgeon (and he should give the NAME just in case it's an unethical one I know of) to establish IF he can get a surgery to make eyes HORIZONTALLY wider that is NOT a cantho aimed at just uptilting them, lest he find out the hard way after a procedure to increase the eye to eye distance just leaves him with the same small eyes just set further apart.
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What kind of extractions do you mean? teeth?
no penis
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So where do you think would be good to start kavan?
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Oh forgot to add a link. This wasn't the link I wanted to add but they are all similar where the docs AVOID telling the patient like it is and just use/ DIVERT the question and 'answers' to it to NOT answer the question. Instead the look for things that they can do.
https://www.realself.com/question/new-york-ny-1-hunter-eyes-surgery#
Many links where the realself docs avoid giving the real answer which would be an admission they can't do what your asking them if can be done. All they do is divert focus on what they can do and they CAN'T do the 'hunter eye' look and they AVOID telling you that outright and instead devote themselves to other things they can do.
Stiensapir, is an 'eye guy'. He tells the patient he has upper lid ptosis with high eyebrows. So he looks for what he can do but avoids answering directly as to the hunter eyes the male model has which are function of his brow bone being forward and his internal orbit anatomy and NOT a direct function of the model squinting as he tells the patient. So, he doesn't tell the guy no way he will get the eyes he wants. Avoids telling why and just demeans his colleagues who 'don't understand what's going on. He doesn't either.
Next comes a DOLT of a doctor (Benjamin Paul) tells the patient wanting hunter eyes that the models eyebrows are 'ptotic' or 'droopy' and the patient should try some botox. The models brows are NOT droopy. They are low due to his brow bone being forward and also other relationships going on within the orbit. Then he IDs the canthal tilt as a reason the model has 'hunter eyes'. NOT SO either. Because the model does NOT have an upward lateral canthus. He has a downward medial canthus. Something else they CAN'T do. So he suggests something he can do which canthopexy to uptilt the lateral corners.
The other doc, James Gordon is also a dummy. He too tells the patient the models brows are ptotic (droopy) which is WRONG for reasons cited above.
Point I'm making is this is one of the BIGGEST AVOIDANCE questions out there, even with a lot of eye guys. Chances they will advise you in terms of employment opportunities for themselves and avoid direct answer to question (which is NO) that they can't give anything close to hunter eyes or make small eyes much wider. They will just find and suggest something else for them to do.
The 'forward' or low set brows CAN be achieved at the very least for OP right? Can't it be achieved by implants/ HA etc?
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The 'forward' or low set brows CAN be achieved at the very least for OP right? Can't it be achieved by implants/ HA etc?
My point was to give an EXAMPLE of someone wanting something that is HIGHLY unlikely to be done, wanting to have what male model has; 'hunter eyes' and how the pursuit of it with doctors can just lead to them finding something else they can do instead.
The other point was even IF one PART of something can be done (the box osteo), the whole look is contingent on OTHER parts also being done. So even if ONE part can be done, the WHOLE look the person wants is unlikely to be achieved if any ONE contingency associated with having the whole 'gestalt' of it is highly unlikely to be achieved.
The low set or forward brow area is YET another PART of the hunter eye look. So it does NOT matter if THAT
part of the whole look could be achieved for the OP.
It would only matter IF the OP wanted his 'small beady' eyes to look even WORSE and appear smaller by doing the SINGULAR thing you proxied to ask FOR him, in which case I would give him NO info regarding a pursuit of something that could make his present situation look even worse.
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So where do you think would be good to start kavan?
Wow! I've given enough info here regarding your pursuit. A good start would be for you to process the info already given.
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Wow! I've given enough info here regarding your pursuit. A good start would be for you to process the info already given.
I apologize if I come off rude, was not my intention.
Just been getting confused with a lot of things I don't understand yet. I appreciate your help you've provided!
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I apologize if I come off rude, was not my intention.
Just been getting confused with a lot of things I don't understand yet. I appreciate your help you've provided!
Thanx. I didn't think you were rude. Just wanted to stress there is a lot of information dealing with the UNCERTAINTY of this to process and I have made a lot of entries already to that regard.
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Thanx. I didn't think you were rude. Just wanted to stress there is a lot of information dealing with the UNCERTAINTY of this to process and I have made a lot of entries already to that regard.
Yeah it seems like there are a lot of variables with things.
What about jaw surgery, do you think it would provided any kind of benefit outcome in general?
https://imgur.com/a/dsO1Dlk
So far I've put down on my list to look into:
1. Some kind of Eye surgery.
2. Eyebrow Transplant Surgery for darker eye brows.
3. Jaw surgery?
4. Hair Transplant & Hairline Lowering?
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Yeah it seems like there are a lot of variables with things.
What about jaw surgery, do you think it would provided any kind of benefit outcome in general?
https://imgur.com/a/dsO1Dlk
So far I've put down on my list to look into:
1. Some kind of Eye surgery.
2. Eyebrow Transplant Surgery for darker eye brows.
3. Jaw surgery?
4. Hair Transplant & Hairline Lowering?
I think you should post a new thread to ask about that so others can give their take.
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Will do. Appreciate it.
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uhm dude man you gotta check yourself before your wreck yourself.
2, 3, and 4 aren't gonna do anything for your eyes. 1 --maybe see Taban, he could give you some options. The whole orbital box osteotomy thing I mean I don't even really know if it would work. But go get some consults you know enough now to at least get consults with surgeons. Don't do anything till you pass everything by on this board and think seriously about the implications. But get some real info.
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If you're short sighted, consider wearing frameless glasses. They will make your eyes look bigger. That's pretty much the only option.
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uhm dude man you gotta check yourself before your wreck yourself.
2, 3, and 4 aren't gonna do anything for your eyes. 1 --maybe see Taban, he could give you some options. The whole orbital box osteotomy thing I mean I don't even really know if it would work. But go get some consults you know enough now to at least get consults with surgeons. Don't do anything till you pass everything by on this board and think seriously about the implications. But get some real info.
I definitely agree with you.
From what I've read, usually any surgery that has anything to do with the eyes is very complex and can result in drastic complications if not done correctly.
And should only be done by someone extremely qualified, who literally writes text books on these types of difficult procedures
Man, it seems that there's not much that can be done out there to change eye area's.
A box osteotomy, which apparently is a very major and dangerous surgery, would supposedly be able to move close-set eyes further apart.
Then the next thing to address would be trying to make my small eyes bigger?
Only surgery's that I could find seem to be Canthopexy, Blepharoplasty, Ptosis Surgery, and Epicanthoplasty/Lateral Epicanthoplasty.
So maybe consult with Wolfe, a craniofacial surgeon, and then go see a oculoplastic surgeon such as taban?
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If you're short sighted, consider wearing frameless glasses. They will make your eyes look bigger. That's pretty much the only option.
I do have problems seeing far away distances, and use glasses for in class.
Would you sending me some photos of some so I could get an idea of what you mean?
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you'll have to see a couple surgeons. but first you need to make your eyes more wide set. for that you'll need an orbital box osteotomy to create wide set eyes.
only one who will do it is anthony s. wolfe in florida and i'd google him and get the ball rolling fast cause he'll probably retire in a year or so.
I called Wolfe's office and asked the lady who handles his consultations if he could do one online, so I don't drive all the way there for nothing.
He only does them at his office, but she gave me his email.
Would it be too direct to ask him over email, and attach some photos?
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uhm dude man you gotta check yourself before your wreck yourself.
2, 3, and 4 aren't gonna do anything for your eyes. 1 --maybe see Taban, he could give you some options. The whole orbital box osteotomy thing I mean I don't even really know if it would work. But go get some consults you know enough now to at least get consults with surgeons. Don't do anything till you pass everything by on this board and think seriously about the implications. But get some real info.
What about Eyelid Filler Injection?
I literally just found out about it on Tabans website.
After doing some research on it for a while, it's spoken about pretty positively online.
I've got significant upper eyelid exposure and it seems like it could help. Not saying it would fix everything or be a permanent solution.
https://tabanmd.com/gallery/eyelid-filler-injection-dark-circles-sunken-eyes/
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I do have problems seeing far away distances, and use glasses for in class.
Would you sending me some photos of some so I could get an idea of what you mean?
My guess, frameless, horizontally wide. Women use eyeliner drawn past the eye corners to make them look bigger. Not an option for men of course.
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What about Eyelid Filler Injection?
I literally just found out about it on Tabans website.
After doing some research on it for a while, it's spoken about pretty positively online.
I've got significant upper eyelid exposure and it seems like it could help. Not saying it would fix everything or be a permanent solution.
https://tabanmd.com/gallery/eyelid-filler-injection-dark-circles-sunken-eyes/
Nope. I rarely visit these forums anymore, but this shouldn't be an option for you - and some of the extreme stuff you're considering is simply madness!
1. You do NOT have significant upper eyelid exposure. I guess people are just going overboard these days on this. Google hollow eyes to look at what significant upper eyelid exposure looks like - yours is very minor. From what I'm seeing, yours is a mix of thin skin, slight volume loss (you actually have fairly good fat volume in your upper brow), eye position. It isn't ideal, but it isn't even close to a deformity. Fillers are temporary and in thin skin can cause more problems than it's worth.
2. All these other surgeries and stuff you're considering are completely ridiculous to me. You definitely have small, slightly narrow set eyes, but you aren't deformed at all. You have so much to lose from this stuff, and imo this stuff should be only pursued by an obvious deformity. It will most likely disrupt the harmony of your features because what I see as the problem is a bunch of minor issues adding up to the problems you have an issue with.