jawsurgeryforums.com

General Category => Aesthetics => Topic started by: forwardgrowth on April 26, 2019, 03:46:28 PM

Title: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on April 26, 2019, 03:46:28 PM
Hello,

I am 20 years that has a class 2 bite planning on getting BSSO but would first like to expand my lower jaw via a distractor first if possible is consulting with a IMDO doctor in Mexico the best option for this?

Thanks
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Options?
Post by: kavan on April 26, 2019, 05:03:18 PM
IMDO is aimed at children or adolescents in the GROWING STAGE. It won't widen your lower jaw transversely if that's what you mean by 'expand'. It pushes it forward BUT works when one is in growing stage (children or young teens with class 2 recessive jaw). If you are planning on getting BSSO, you should go with the plan the doctor doing the surgery gives you.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Options?
Post by: GJ on April 26, 2019, 06:02:01 PM
IMDO is aimed at children or adolescents in the GROWING STAGE. It won't widen your lower jaw transversely if that's what you mean by 'expand'. It pushes it forward BUT works when one is in growing stage (children or young teens with class 2 recessive jaw). If you are planning on getting BSSO, you should go with the plan the doctor doing the surgery gives you.

This.
Getting traverse in the lower jaw, as an adult, is like finding a unicorn.
Best option might be lower jaw advancement (if possible given your structure) because then the wider/back part of the jaw will be more forward.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on April 26, 2019, 06:29:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUzmMy584ZU What do you guys think about this

https://www.sylvainchamberland.com/en/blog/expansion-mandibulaire-symphysaire-par-osteodistraction/?fbclid=IwAR1IKf4lwfKfcKoZGZutcf1lLiOJsMQpzTmssaVhITTfIY20uQEiK83foGM
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: Lazlo on April 26, 2019, 11:39:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUzmMy584ZU What do you guys think about this

https://www.sylvainchamberland.com/en/blog/expansion-mandibulaire-symphysaire-par-osteodistraction/?fbclid=IwAR1IKf4lwfKfcKoZGZutcf1lLiOJsMQpzTmssaVhITTfIY20uQEiK83foGM

I just had a consult with a doc who wrote a bunch of papers about how distraction was the next wave for everything and he turned out to be pretty useless.

David A Walker is the guy's name. I can't believe how pathetic he was. He was old, but he also admitted he had only ever done two lower jaw widening cases and then I was like ahhh f**k off I wouldn't trust you with this anyway so I didn't even bother asking him follow up questions.

I think Mommaerts would do it though. Maybe not the lengthening that this woman is having, but Mommaerts would probably do the widening one for you. I don't know how long this would take i.e. for you to stay in a hospital in belgium and the rest of the logistics. But again, you could consult him over facetime or something.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: PloskoPlus on April 26, 2019, 11:45:34 PM
Will wreck your cobdyles
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: Lefortitude on April 27, 2019, 08:39:23 AM
typically, a bsso, which focuses on advancement, also creates the appearance of a wider lower jaw. The jaw is advanced, making it closer to the viewer, and therefore appear larger.  Its also going to look relatively wider, since its sitting in an advanced position on the face.

Having it widened by osteotomy is possible, but i would really not recommend it.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on April 27, 2019, 10:46:34 AM
Will wreck your cobdyles

How?
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on April 27, 2019, 12:27:12 PM
I just had a consult with a doc who wrote a bunch of papers about how distraction was the next wave for everything and he turned out to be pretty useless.

David A Walker is the guy's name. I can't believe how pathetic he was. He was old, but he also admitted he had only ever done two lower jaw widening cases and then I was like ahhh f**k off I wouldn't trust you with this anyway so I didn't even bother asking him follow up questions.

I think Mommaerts would do it though. Maybe not the lengthening that this woman is having, but Mommaerts would probably do the widening one for you. I don't know how long this would take i.e. for you to stay in a hospital in belgium and the rest of the logistics. But again, you could consult him over facetime or something.

Thank you I contacted Mommarets and IMDO mexico to ask about distraction and how many MM's they can do
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: Lazlo on April 27, 2019, 02:34:09 PM
Thank you I contacted Mommarets and IMDO mexico to ask about distraction and how many MM's they can do

I would consider that Indian doc too. India isn't a third world country when it comes to medicine anymore and the standard of care is probably very high for foreigners especially.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: kavan on April 27, 2019, 04:44:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUzmMy584ZU What do you guys think about this

https://www.sylvainchamberland.com/en/blog/expansion-mandibulaire-symphysaire-par-osteodistraction/?fbclid=IwAR1IKf4lwfKfcKoZGZutcf1lLiOJsMQpzTmssaVhITTfIY20uQEiK83foGM

As you can see from the video, she has some tubes or wires sticking out of her neck. So, this distraction is going to require some SURGERY as in open INCISION to do it.

Sure enough, some of the doc's video of patient/s having mandible distraction osteogenesis. shows the incision for this is under the jaw, entry from outside of face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B10ei8bfEas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B10ei8bfEas

Doctor seems kind of affable and knowledgeable. But there are LAPSES of information if you only watch one video. But he certainly has a LOT of videos that you could watch that are somewhat informative. No idea if this is right thing for you.

Yes, that is distraction osteogenisis BUT it's NOT IMDO for children where the surgery is inside the mouth and is aimed at the growth stage and yes, you will have an outside of the face CUT to do it.

So, did you just watch that ONE video or did you search his video profile to see the ones where they show the open incision from front of face to put in the distractor?

Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: kavan on April 27, 2019, 04:54:33 PM
I would consider that Indian doc too. India isn't a third world country when it comes to medicine anymore and the standard of care is probably very high for foreigners especially.

He certainly appears very knowledgeable and since it's his video, he'd be the one to consult with if one wanted to know if the process applied to their situation.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on April 27, 2019, 05:04:48 PM
Ah I see.
this was the man that helped with distractors and procedure https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/doctor/default?id=rohit-k-khosla will call him monday asking for providers
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: PloskoPlus on April 27, 2019, 05:54:35 PM
The upper jaw is only ever distracted to match the lower. The lower is almost never distracted. The only way you'll get someone to agree to distract your lower is if it's an insanely crowded narrow triangular arch. I bet that's not the case.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: Lazlo on April 27, 2019, 06:38:27 PM
The upper jaw is only ever distracted to match the lower. The lower is almost never distracted. The only way you'll get someone to agree to distract your lower is if it's an insanely crowded narrow triangular arch. I bet that's not the case.

I have a VERY lower arch, but its not crowded anymore cause I had extractions.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on April 27, 2019, 07:16:28 PM
I think I will be accepted for this because getting palate expansion right now and the discrepancy will be great   
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: PloskoPlus on April 27, 2019, 08:46:53 PM
I think I will be accepted for this because getting palate expansion right now and the discrepancy will be great
How are you doing this?
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: april on April 27, 2019, 10:08:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUzmMy584ZU What do you guys think about this

I think this doctor is using DO to lengthen her mandible (and maybe ramus) as an alternative to BSSO maybe because she needed a huge amount of advancement? He didn't really talk about widening her lower arch specifically. The bulk and wider looking jaw might be a combination of the effects of bringing the jaw forward (the same as a BSOO) and like he said she still has the distractors in place under her skin.

I think "mandibular DO" and "IMDO" could be different things, so I would check on that first.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on April 27, 2019, 11:30:50 PM
How are you doing this?

MSE
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: PloskoPlus on April 27, 2019, 11:36:22 PM
MSE
Is your upper arch narrower than your lower?
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on April 27, 2019, 11:44:00 PM
Is your upper arch narrower than your lower?

No
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: PloskoPlus on April 28, 2019, 01:02:43 AM
No
Do you really expect an ortho to overexpanded your upper arch?
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: kavan on April 28, 2019, 09:22:32 AM
I think this doctor is using DO to lengthen her mandible (and maybe ramus) as an alternative to BSSO maybe because she needed a huge amount of advancement? He didn't really talk about widening her lower arch specifically. The bulk and wider looking jaw might be a combination of the effects of bringing the jaw forward (the same as a BSOO) and like he said she still has the distractors in place under her skin.

I think "mandibular DO" and "IMDO" could be different things, so I would check on that first.

BINGO!

The video clearly demonstrates the device was used to lengthen and not widen and also prior that bringing forward the jaw can give appearance of widening and clearly points out some of the wideness is from the distractor still being under the skin.

He has been told what IMDO was and that it doesn't widen the lower jaw transversly and is only effective during growing stages by BOTH mods. He has been told the difference between IMDO and the type of distraction osteogenisis seen in his video. He has been told the upper jaw is only distracted to match the lower and the lower almost never distracted regarding transverse expansion. He has not acknowledged the information to that regard already given to him. So, who knows if he even knows the difference between DO and IMDO or the difference between the anterior-posterior direction to bring forward and transverse directions to widen despite explanations already given to him in that regard.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on April 28, 2019, 11:45:40 AM
Do you really expect an ortho to overexpanded your upper arch?

I have mse Installed next month
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on April 28, 2019, 11:58:03 AM
I see, I am looking for MSDO providers then
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: PloskoPlus on April 28, 2019, 01:05:04 PM
I have mse Installed next month
That would be one unscrupulous ortho.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: Lazlo on April 28, 2019, 01:31:30 PM
I see, I am looking for MSDO providers then

Oh man, I really, really wanna follow your case carefully because if it can be done it would be the answer to all my intolerable (or barely tolerable) suffering.

The question here that I have is that does your ortho know of your plans to widen the lower? I mean he might only be widening your upper jaw to give you a more width RELATIVE to your current lower jaw width. How are you gonna get him to OVEREXPAND as Plosko mentions to fit a hypothetically-in-the-future lower jaw? Both should be done at the same time or if anything the upper should be done AFTER the lower so I'm just curious what your exact strategy is in this case and how you got the ortho and surgeon who installs the MSE to all get on board?

I definitely wish you luck and am looking forward to your updates. I just have questions and concerns since you're delving in unexplored territory for this forum!
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: kavan on April 28, 2019, 02:24:34 PM
To the OP:

To the OP:

I have noticed that you query for info/advice, but disregard, don't acknowledge, discount or don't 'digest' some of the helpful feedback given to you here. Especially feedback regarding your not going about this the right way. It appears that what you do acknowledge is selective to WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO ANYWAY. But lack of capacity to understand you are not going about this the right way. You query for things, get some good advice but demonstrate that you are BEYOND help you've queried for her.

I'm sorry. But you demonstrate limited capacity to understand what you're doing despite some the feedback here aimed at helping you. That in turn resolves to a waste of time and resources on the part of members (especially the knowledgeable ones) who take the time to render help. Free memberships here ultimately are in the spirit of helping those who CAN be helped (or at least acknowledge the info offered to them subsequent to a query for such). It appears you are BEYOND the very help you query for.


Why? Because if you are just GOING TO DO WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO ANYWAY whilst querying for feedback, some of which you selectively disregard because you are just going to do what you are going to do anyway, it's outside of the spirit of what free memberships are aimed at which is helping those who CAN be helped (or at least acknowledge the info offered to them subsequent to a query for such).

So, unless I see some demonstration from you that you have 'digested' info graciously provided to you or at least acknowledge it was given, I'm going to consider you a waste of resources.

That said, consider your free membership here a TRIAL one and you will be requested to put in a $ donation if you wish to continue the pattern of participation that I have pointed out here.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on April 28, 2019, 04:07:27 PM
I understand sorry for being a pest, I am just under incredible time constraints right now
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: PloskoPlus on April 28, 2019, 04:08:53 PM
I understand sorry for being a pest
If you overexpand your maxilla, you may end up in a world of hurt.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on April 28, 2019, 05:22:43 PM
If you overexpand your maxilla, you may end up in a world of hurt.

My IMW is 38 expansion is 12mm
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: Lestat on April 29, 2019, 02:00:09 AM
@ forwardgrowth
That's not Lookism.
Change your profile picture.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on May 02, 2019, 09:40:09 AM
Oh man, I really, really wanna follow your case carefully because if it can be done it would be the answer to all my intolerable (or barely tolerable) suffering.

The question here that I have is that does your ortho know of your plans to widen the lower? I mean he might only be widening your upper jaw to give you a more width RELATIVE to your current lower jaw width. How are you gonna get him to OVEREXPAND as Plosko mentions to fit a hypothetically-in-the-future lower jaw? Both should be done at the same time or if anything the upper should be done AFTER the lower so I'm just curious what your exact strategy is in this case and how you got the ortho and surgeon who installs the MSE to all get on board?

I definitely wish you luck and am looking forward to your updates. I just have questions and concerns since you're delving in unexplored territory for this forum!

Thank you so much for the support, I just contacted ortho today so I can try to best coordinate it no response yet, I have place locked in for where I can get the MSE done I just need to find mandibular symphyseal distraction osteogenesis providers in the eastcoast area if possible do you know of any? I contacted Mommaerts no response yet
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on May 10, 2019, 10:32:31 AM
I just had a consult with a doc who wrote a bunch of papers about how distraction was the next wave for everything and he turned out to be pretty useless.

David A Walker is the guy's name. I can't believe how pathetic he was. He was old, but he also admitted he had only ever done two lower jaw widening cases and then I was like ahhh f**k off I wouldn't trust you with this anyway so I didn't even bother asking him follow up questions.

I think Mommaerts would do it though. Maybe not the lengthening that this woman is having, but Mommaerts would probably do the widening one for you. I don't know how long this would take i.e. for you to stay in a hospital in belgium and the rest of the logistics. But again, you could consult him over facetime or something.

I have contacted Mommaerts 2x no response and Dr.  Sylvian Chamberland has also declined to help me it appears, Lazlo can docs you recommend to reach out to? many thanks
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on June 06, 2019, 02:27:39 PM
Update i have mse at 3mm expanding to 10mm struggling to find docs that can surgically expand lower arch any recommendations, nobody is taking me on  :'(
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on June 06, 2019, 02:40:30 PM
If you overexpand your maxilla, you may end up in a world of hurt.

Why if you were to expand the maxilla gradually?
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: Post bimax on June 06, 2019, 05:29:31 PM
Why if you were to expand the maxilla gradually?

If your jaws are done growing this is not an option.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: kavan on June 06, 2019, 06:04:25 PM
Why if you were to expand the maxilla gradually?

Because the mandible can't be expanded to meet the expansion of the mandible if you end up expanding the maxilla in excess.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on June 06, 2019, 06:27:38 PM
Because the mandible can't be expanded to meet the expansion of the mandible if you end up expanding the maxilla in excess.

I see and if you can't expand mandible the discrepancy between the upper and jaw lets say its 10mm will lead to ...? bite problems?
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: kavan on June 06, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
I see and if you can't expand mandible the discrepancy between the upper and jaw lets say its 10mm will lead to ...? bite problems?

Yes.
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on June 06, 2019, 07:19:06 PM
Will wreck your cobdyles

Explain more please , many thanks
Title: Re: Lower Jaw Expansion Best Options?
Post by: forwardgrowth on June 06, 2019, 08:03:23 PM
Yes.

I see so bite problems anything else? many thanks