jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Aesthetics => Topic started by: Yyes on July 02, 2019, 11:14:26 PM
-
As the title states, I’m running out of time. I just turned 30 and want to improve my aesthetics with surgery but need advice. Dr Gunson suggested surgery. Here’s what his nurse wrote:
Dr Gunson surmised that you have “large mandibular bodies that can be reduced. The chin can be done with removal of the implant, this would allow some improvement of the cant and add some squareness.
Do you guys agree with this assessment? Or what do you guys think can improve my looks? I want to enjoy my looks for at least a few years before hitting 40. I have attached a pdf with pics so you guys can see what I mean.
I feel like jaw implants would make my face even wider.
But will shaving my jaw cause me to lose support, thus cause my skin to sag as the bone structure wouldn’t be there? I feel like my case is so complex. This is why I feel like every doctor I go to suggests different things.
What do you guys advice?
Heres the link
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1rw4lerU1Ry82BUif6m0t7xIZEkngNA7A
-
Pretty tough call. You don’t look bad and there isn’t anything glaringly obvious to fix imo. Can you get a morph of how Gunson’s plan is supposed to turn out?
-
Convuluted head postures in the photos. Insufficient visual information for others to evaluate. Learn to take photos with proper head postures or use the ones the doctor took.
People who contort head postures to exaggerate a perspective for which others DON'T ususally see you in, IMO, will do that even after a surgery. Possible red flag for BDD.
If not BDD, the doctor might be assessing your complaint of excess facial bulk to a thick muscle. Muscles weaken/shrink with BONE LOSS. So, IF your excess face bulk is from too thick a masseter muscle (as opposed to too thick a FAT layer), then shaving your jaw might result in muscle shrinkage IF excess muscle is problem.
Did he tell you your excess face bulk was from muscle and NOT fat?
-
You want to change your phenotype. Not possible. You look fine as you are. You do look goddamn depressed in every single photo that you've posted.
-
Pretty tough call. You don’t look bad and there isn’t anything glaringly obvious to fix imo. Can you get a morph of how Gunson’s plan is supposed to turn out?
Im not sure if I can get a morph from him but I can get a morph of what my desired outcome is. I will post here shortly.
-
Convuluted head postures in the photos. Insufficient visual information for others to evaluate. Learn to take photos with proper head postures or use the ones the doctor took.
People who contort head postures to exaggerate a perspective for which others DON'T ususally see you in, IMO, will do that even after a surgery. Possible red flag for BDD.
If not BDD, the doctor might be assessing your complaint of excess facial bulk to a thick muscle. Muscles weaken/shrink with BONE LOSS. So, IF your excess face bulk is from too thick a masseter muscle (as opposed to too thick a FAT layer), then shaving your jaw might result in muscle shrinkage IF excess muscle is problem.
Did he tell you your excess face bulk was from muscle and NOT fat?
The reason I posted these pics is because this is what I look like in the real world per-se. None of that using angles, filtered bulls**t.
This is what I look like when I am not posing or looking for my 'best side' when taking a picture.
-
You want to change your phenotype. Not possible. You look fine as you are. You do look goddamn depressed in every single photo that you've posted.
Not so much change my phenotype as hoping to improve it as much as I can. I have the money, I just need to know what the issue is to get it corrected.
-
The reason I posted these pics is because this is what I look like in the real world per-se. None of that using angles, filtered bulls**t.
This is what I look like when I am not posing or looking for my 'best side' when taking a picture.
You are CONTORTING head position in your photos. Use STANDARD photos for advice OR use the ones Gunson took. Use contorted photos. Get a contorted opinion.
-
As the title states, I’m running out of time. I just turned 30 and want to improve my aesthetics with surgery but need advice. Dr Gunson suggested surgery. Here’s what his nurse wrote:
Dr Gunson surmised that you have “large mandibular bodies that can be reduced. The chin can be done with removal of the implant, this would allow some improvement of the cant and add some squareness.
Do you guys agree with this assessment? Or what do you guys think can improve my looks? I want to enjoy my looks for at least a few years before hitting 40. I have attached a pdf with pics so you guys can see what I mean.
I feel like jaw implants would make my face even wider.
But will shaving my jaw cause me to lose support, thus cause my skin to sag as the bone structure wouldn’t be there? I feel like my case is so complex. This is why I feel like every doctor I go to suggests different things.
What do you guys advice?
Heres the link
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1rw4lerU1Ry82BUif6m0t7xIZEkngNA7A
I think his assesment is right. Your face seems too broad from the front. But where is he going to shave the jaw? Is it the asian shaving off of the corners? That would be bad I think. You need shaving above jawangles.
It seems that you have too much fat as well. Start losing weight. Your mouth area and skin texture are not ideal neither
-
But will shaving my jaw cause me to lose support, thus cause my skin to sag as the bone structure wouldn’t be there?
Potentially. It's a valid concern. Can you ask him about it?
Maybe he will also do some lipo. Or the chin work will pick up some of the slack.
I've seen cases online where people have had bone reduced either from reducing their chin during DJS, or jaw angles/V line surgery and they ended up with less definition and a small double chin.
-
So, IF your excess face bulk is from too thick a masseter muscle (as opposed to too thick a FAT layer), then shaving your jaw might result in muscle shrinkage IF excess muscle is problem.
Did he tell you your excess face bulk was from muscle and NOT fat?
If it's the masseter muscle, you can just do botox for that.
-
I think his assesment is right. Your face seems too broad from the front. But where is he going to shave the jaw? Is it the asian shaving off of the corners? That would be bad I think. You need shaving above jawangles.
It seems that you have too much fat as well. Start losing weight. Your mouth area and skin texture are not ideal neither
Thanks for the response. The problem is that I dont weigh alot. I am as fit as can be and according to people at the gym im at tip top shape, hovering around 13 percent body fat. I just have a round face. But you raise a great question. Where would he shave? Because it has to be above my jaw angles.
Here are more accurate pictures along with morphs so you can get an idea of what I am going for.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1opyqj_DasD0AeKcrP21zx1KH3aStTZUT?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1opyqj_DasD0AeKcrP21zx1KH3aStTZUT?usp=sharing)
-
You are CONTORTING head position in your photos. Use STANDARD photos for advice OR use the ones Gunson took. Use contorted photos. Get a contorted opinion.
Fair enough. Ok I got some pictures up that are NOT contorted. Hope this helps.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1opyqj_DasD0AeKcrP21zx1KH3aStTZUT?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1opyqj_DasD0AeKcrP21zx1KH3aStTZUT?usp=sharing)
-
Potentially. It's a valid concern. Can you ask him about it?
Maybe he will also do some lipo. Or the chin work will pick up some of the slack.
I've seen cases online where people have had bone reduced either from reducing their chin during DJS, or jaw angles/V line surgery and they ended up with less definition and a small double chin.
Exactly. Thats another one of my concerns. Here are some pictures that will show my face in a non distorted fashion. Hopefully you are able to see my concerns more clearly. In regards to the massetter, I tried that too and it didnt do much. I do have huge massetter muscles but the botox didnt help which was also super dissapointing. The only thing it did was paralyze my mouth.
Hopefully the pics below help.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1opyqj_DasD0AeKcrP21zx1KH3aStTZUT?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1opyqj_DasD0AeKcrP21zx1KH3aStTZUT?usp=sharing)
-
Exactly. Thats another one of my concerns. Here are some pictures that will show my face in a non distorted fashion. Hopefully you are able to see my concerns more clearly. In regards to the massetter, I tried that too and it didnt do much. I do have huge massetter muscles but the botox didnt help which was also super dissapointing. The only thing it did was paralyze my mouth.
Hopefully the pics below help.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1opyqj_DasD0AeKcrP21zx1KH3aStTZUT?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1opyqj_DasD0AeKcrP21zx1KH3aStTZUT?usp=sharing)
You don't look better, just different. All that shaving is going to do is turn your face from square to round possibly with loose skin.
-
Wait, my face is already round. Shaving shouldnt make it more round right?
-
If he says you have large mandibular BODY, it means he's going to shave the BODY of the mandible. Not the angle or the ramus. So, if you are complaining about a CURVE to the BODY of the mandible, (on one of your photos-oblique-you show a curve to the body) he can shave it down so the body of mandible is straighter. That will help define the back angle more. He's interpreting your complaint as a BONE STRUCTURE one where he feels that if he reduces the curve to the body of the mandible as to make a straight diagonal line from the sides of the chin to the back angle, it could articulate the bone structure more and maybe some excess muscle that is BULKING your face will shrink. I guess he made some determination that the bulk you didn't like came from MUSCLE. So, losing some bone will definitely shrink some muscle, assuming it's muscle excess that's causing your bulk.
-
If he says you have large mandibular BODY, it means he's going to shave the BODY of the mandible. Not the angle or the ramus. So, if you are complaining about a CURVE to the BODY of the mandible, (on one of your photos-oblique-you show a curve to the body) he can shave it down so the body of mandible is straighter. That will help define the back angle more. He's interpreting your complaint as a BONE STRUCTURE one where he feels that if he reduces the curve to the body of the mandible as to make a straight diagonal line from the sides of the chin to the back angle, it could articulate the bone structure more and maybe some excess muscle that is BULKING your face will shrink. I guess he made some determination that the bulk you didn't like came from MUSCLE. So, losing some bone will definitely shrink some muscle, assuming it's muscle excess that's causing your bulk.
Your analysis seems spot on. I will have to clarify with him to see what hes seeing but I am hopeful this turns out well. My left hand side of the face is definitely thicker and wider than the right hand side.
-
Your analysis seems spot on. I will have to clarify with him to see what hes seeing but I am hopeful this turns out well. My left hand side of the face is definitely thicker and wider than the right hand side.
On your 3/4 view photo (first set), you say the jaw line is 'rounded'--you know, might have an extra curve along the body. So if he makes the whole body of the mandible a straight (diagonal) by shaving off curvature to it, the back angle would look more angular. I think he's thinking along the lines that you have a LARGE jaw bone so, in that way, you could SPARE some shaving to it and with that the muscle could shrink a bit and give you SOME 'relief' from SOME of your excess bulk complaint. Line of thinking being that people with BIG BONE structure also have big muscles. Also, since you are 30 as in pretty YOUNG, you probably have good elasticity and don't have to worry about loss of support from it. If he did botox before on you to weaken the jaw muscle and you like that, PERM weakening of jaw muscle would arise from some bone loss from the shaving. Different amount on either side.
As you know, it won't de-fat the face. But at least it's something.
-
On your 3/4 view photo (first set), you say the jaw line is 'rounded'--you know, might have an extra curve along the body. So if he makes the whole body of the mandible a straight (diagonal) by shaving off curvature to it, the back angle would look more angular. I think he's thinking along the lines that you have a LARGE jaw bone so, in that way, you could SPARE some shaving to it and with that the muscle could shrink a bit and give you SOME 'relief' from SOME of your excess bulk complaint. Line of thinking being that people with BIG BONE structure also have big muscles. Also, since you are 30 as in pretty YOUNG, you probably have good elasticity and don't have to worry about loss of support from it. If he did botox before on you to weaken the jaw muscle and you like that, PERM weakening of jaw muscle would arise from some bone loss from the shaving. Different amount on either side.
As you know, it won't de-fat the face. But at least it's something.
Interesting. Yeah the goal is to get the left side of my face as less bulky as possible. When he did botox to the massetter it worked. Since then, I have gone to 2 different doctors and they have messed up the botox, paralyzing my face. Luckily the botox wears off and this isnt permanent but I dont trust them.
The problem is that Gunson isnt willing to do botox to masseter on a regular basis, probably because hes busier with better cases.
You would think that injecting botox to masseter to shrink the jaw is a straightforward procedure but apparently you need skill to do this as well.
-
Interesting. Yeah the goal is to get the left side of my face as less bulky as possible. When he did botox to the massetter it worked. Since then, I have gone to 2 different doctors and they have messed up the botox, paralyzing my face. Luckily the botox wears off and this isnt permanent but I dont trust them.
The problem is that Gunson isnt willing to do botox to masseter on a regular basis, probably because hes busier with better cases.
You would think that injecting botox to masseter to shrink the jaw is a straightforward procedure but apparently you need skill to do this as well.
IDK. I read some stuff some time ago where it said you can build up anti-bodies to botox--some sort of 'immunity' where it doesn't work as well if you do too often or you need more and more, something like that.
-
You need a way to bring ogee line in your face. It would probably make a big difference, a subtle change that might change your face for the better. Shaving the sides might help, but you never know how it will turn out.
-
You need a way to bring ogee line in your face. It would probably make a big difference, a subtle change that might change your face for the better. Shaving the sides might help, but you never know how it will turn out.
Whats interesting about this comment is that the very first time he analyzed my face, he said that I had an ideal ogee curve. He said that surgeons look for that type of curve and that I already had that.
I had no idea about the curve until he brought it up.
-
Whats interesting about this comment is that the very first time he analyzed my face, he said that I had an ideal ogee curve. He said that surgeons look for that type of curve and that I already had that.
I had no idea about the curve until he brought it up.
Uhuh, yeah, you already have some ogeen line. Maybe in motion it looks better. Your face looks a bit too broad it seems, but shaving bones is quite tricky I think. Might turn out well, might not.
By the way, I don't think you need a more forward chin. I think you already look masculine, it would be better to have more 'boyish' traits imo. Maybe I'm wrong I don't know. Look at Ronaldo's chin from profile. Is it really that important if you already have a decent chin like you?
You don't have the caucasian phenotype. A bigger chin doesn't always look good on non-caucasian people.
In asia they do the inverse from western surgery for example, they shave off part of jaw and chin instead of adding to the bone. I don't know if that applies to you as well when it comes to chin. Just to say that adding volume to the bone doesn't always fit the phenotype.
-
Uhuh, yeah, you already have some ogeen line. Maybe in motion it looks better. Your face looks a bit too broad it seems, but shaving bones is quite tricky I think. Might turn out well, might not.
By the way, I don't think you need a more forward chin. I think you already look masculine, it would be better to have more 'boyish' traits imo. Maybe I'm wrong I don't know. Look at Ronaldo's chin from profile. Is it really that important if you already have a decent chin like you?
You don't have the caucasian phenotype. A bigger chin doesn't always look good on non-caucasian people.
In asia they do the inverse from western surgery for example, they shave off part of jaw and chin instead of adding to the bone. I don't know if that applies to you as well when it comes to chin. Just to say that adding volume to the bone doesn't always fit the phenotype.
I agree that my face looks too broad. Its kind of a difficult case isnt it? Theres no clear cut answer is there?
-
I agree that my face looks too broad. Its kind of a difficult case isnt it? Theres no clear cut answer is there?
In Korea, they do this kind of surgery like shaving etc. to make the face less masculine. I don't know, sometimes it works i guess. Your face does have facial harmony, so sometimes it's more difficult than when somebody has a big flaw in one part of the face, like very retruded chin. I think what Gunson told you is the thing you can do. On Photoshop you can do everything, but we don't know how it will look after real surgery. I guess you already had a chin implant like you said? Maybe Gunson is right and you can take it out, but it's a risk because of soft tissue/scar tissue.
I think your case is a bit comparable to Korean men doing boneshaving and sometimes V-line surgery. Total opposite of western surgery. So, in your case they would probably shave the width of the jaw at the more upper level and maybe shave the chin and sides of the chin to make it less broad. Real V-line surgery for women is taking off part of lower jawbone and that's probably not what you need cause it will probably make your face round and you need jawangles as a man.
So I think Gunson is right in his assesment. Probably taking off the chin implant and do a genioplasty will make the chin more V, which I think is what you need also.
-
Im not sure if I can get a morph from him but I can get a morph of what my desired outcome is. I will post here shortly.
How is your bite and your function? The changes are so minor with the Morph you created. You are a handsome young guy. No way would i screw with getting bones shaved and genio. You could potentially end up much worse and have functional issues.
You could even get some contouring with fillers for a little chin projection before you put yourself through major surgery for such a small gain.
When you say gunson’s nurse emailed you, what did gunson say to you personally?
-
How is your bite and your function? The changes are so minor with the Morph you created. You are a handsome young guy. No way would i screw with getting bones shaved and genio. You could potentially end up much worse and have functional issues.
You could even get some contouring with fillers for a little chin projection before you put yourself through major surgery for such a small gain.
When you say gunson’s nurse emailed you, what did gunson say to you personally?
I agree
-
How is your bite and your function? The changes are so minor with the Morph you created. You are a handsome young guy. No way would i screw with getting bones shaved and genio. You could potentially end up much worse and have functional issues.
You could even get some contouring with fillers for a little chin projection before you put yourself through major surgery for such a small gain.
When you say gunson’s nurse emailed you, what did gunson say to you personally?
I dont agree that I am attractive at all. Like I understand that I am not ugly, but theres definitely room for aesthetic improvement. My face is way too round and I dont know why. Whats worse is that its not even my full face, its the LEFT hand side of my face that I am not happy with at all.
Gunson told me that we should look into botox to the masseter first. This helped but other doctors that did it ended up paralyzing my smile. Luckily the botox wore off and smile is back to normal but even a procedure like that is hard to pull off.
I dont know why my left side looks different. I suspect that its a combination of natural assymetry and maybe my chin implant shifting or being implanted incorrectly. idk.
My bite according to Gunson is ideal. the oglee curve or whatever you call it is 'desirable' according to him.
My bone structure is solid. Its just a soft tissue issue that I have.
I dont know. its so frustrating because I have the money, yet I dont even know if I can be helped.
-
If its soft tissue you want to augment you should be seeing facial plastic surgeons and not maxfac specialists like Gunson.