jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Aesthetics => Topic started by: nomad on July 25, 2020, 07:08:26 AM
-
Hi there! I just wanted to ask for some advice on what aesthetic features you guys would think needed changing? Also I wanted to ask realistically what would you guys think is possible, one of the big problems that I have with my face is I feel like I have POTENTIAL to look good. But something just never seems to turn out right. So what I'm asking I guess is...can I go to well above average in looks?
Anyway, some other things too. I have may appointment with Dr Z in August. I think I will also try to book a consultation with Dr R. In terms of drastic aesthetic improvement does anyone know whether these two or perhaps any other surgeons in Europe would be best? I know Dr Gunson in USA but cost is an issue and also location regarding follow ups, aftercare etc.
As for what needs to be improved currently, my mid face is far too long at the moment. And my gonial angle needs correction. My lower jaw is also completely narrow. Also have asymmetry in face. My maxilla seems to be recessed to which gives my eyes a bug look if I'm not squinting. I think there is a big difference in my face when I squint and do not squint. I also lack cheekbone projection. There are also nasolabial folds which seems a bit early for my age (24).
What procedures do you guys think need to be done? What should I discuss with Dr Z?
Sorry if I'm asking a lot too! Just a bit overwhelmed with the whole process and how much of an overhaul needs to be done. I also have videos if that would help with anything.
https://app.photobucket.com/u/nomad666666/a/33bda526-f9f2-49da-9f22-46f3f6ee51f9
-
Also one other thing I would like to add. I think my face seems concave? As in my eyes and centre seem to sink in rather than go out. This becomes extremely noticeable in certain lighting or under certain lenses. Is this something that is fixable?
-
Just adding something I had in my notes which I thought I should post.
What I need to talk to Dr Zarrinbal about
- Narrowness of face
- Longness of face
- Lack of cheekbones
- Lack of protection of face
- Wonky smile
- Asymmetry
- Extremely poor gonial angle
- Extremely narrow jaw
- Lack of under eye support
-
On one hand you are ASKING what others think you need. On the other hand you are TELLING others what you think you need. IF you can TELL others what you think you need, then you can tell Dr. Z. SAME and ask him WHICH of the the things you think you need are those he agrees with and/or actually does.
So, what I will do here will be LIMITED to what I see on your face that could benefit from some improvement and I shall do so in the ABSENCE of what you think you need.
Needs I see:
Otoplasty to pin your ears back. When ears stick out that far, the face can look more narrow.
ORBITAL RIM ADVANCEMENT along with some cheek advancement. Something in the venue of either what they call a 'modified Lefort 3' or orbital rim implants with midface lift to 'close in' on the eyes and make appear less prominent. However, those things don't really resolve to what Dr. Z is recognized for.
Needs I DON'T see:
I don't really see any problems on your face that Dr. Z is known to address or what people seek him out for such as chin wings and some maxfax surgery.
-
IMO you look already great, especially the frontal pic. I'd be happy if I can archieve a narrow and v-shape lower jaw like you after my surgery...
That being said, your maxilla does look slightly recessed and ears are too projected. That would be an extra bonus if you get them fixed..
As for gonial angle, I really didn't see what's the problem?
-
The images aren't working for me.
-
On one hand you are ASKING what others think you need. On the other hand you are TELLING others what you think you need. IF you can TELL others what you think you need, then you can tell Dr. Z. SAME and ask him WHICH of the the things you think you need are those he agrees with and/or actually does.
So, what I will do here will be LIMITED to what I see on your face that could benefit from some improvement and I shall do so in the ABSENCE of what you think you need.
Needs I see:
Otoplasty to pin your ears back. When ears stick out that far, the face can look more narrow.
ORBITAL RIM ADVANCEMENT along with some cheek advancement. Something in the venue of either what they call a 'modified Lefort 3' or orbital rim implants with midface lift to 'close in' on the eyes and make appear less prominent. However, those things don't really resolve to what Dr. Z is recognized for.
Needs I DON'T see:
I don't really see any problems on your face that Dr. Z is known to address or what people seek him out for such as chin wings and some maxfax surgery.
Thanks for your reply. Well that's one of the main issues I'm not sure ENTIRELY what I need those were just things I think I needed. And I wanted a few other opinions on general aesthetics and things that could be done to improve the face.
For the ears, this might sound weird but that's one thing I don't really want to touch at the moment. I like the way they stick out in that kind of way.
The reason I wanted to see Dr Z was for the lack of width my jaw has and also perhaps to lower/elongate the ramus so my lower third doesn't seem more pointy. Along with that ideally to shorten the mid face is general but I'm not sure if that's possible. My palate is also extremely narrow and I know that's something he can help with I think?
For the orbital rim advancement, could you recommend any Dr that would be specialised in doing something like that? As for mid face lift, do you mind skin lift ? Also, do you think I would benefit from zygomatic bone correction which again I see is something Dr Z does.
Would Dr R be a better option then for the improvements that I am going for? What I'm really going for is more WIDTH and less LENGTH.
-
IMO you look already great, especially the frontal pic. I'd be happy if I can archieve a narrow and v-shape lower jaw like you after my surgery...
That being said, your maxilla does look slightly recessed and ears are too projected. That would be an extra bonus if you get them fixed..
As for gonial angle, I really didn't see what's the problem?
I think the problem here is that the pictures are in a vacuum. But when alongside other people the narrowness of my face becomes more apparent especially with how narrow and v shape my jaw is along with its asymmetry, it's something I would like to fix. I don't want a complete block jaw, something still that remains natural looking, just a slightly more symmetrical jaw, wider projected jaw and wider upper face.
My gonial angle is very poor, my lower jaw comes down at even more than a 45 degree angle I think however I think my thyroid is slightly swollen + my beard helps with hiding it from how bad it is. But yes, maxilla recession is definitely a thing.
-
The images aren't working for me.
https://imgur.com/a/vfHPUzh
Do these show up?
-
Thanks for your reply. Well that's one of the main issues I'm not sure ENTIRELY what I need those were just things I think I needed. And I wanted a few other opinions on general aesthetics and things that could be done to improve the face.
For the ears, this might sound weird but that's one thing I don't really want to touch at the moment. I like the way they stick out in that kind of way.
The reason I wanted to see Dr Z was for the lack of width my jaw has and also perhaps to lower/elongate the ramus so my lower third doesn't seem more pointy. Along with that ideally to shorten the mid face is general but I'm not sure if that's possible. My palate is also extremely narrow and I know that's something he can help with I think?
For the orbital rim advancement, could you recommend any Dr that would be specialised in doing something like that? As for mid face lift, do you mind skin lift ? Also, do you think I would benefit from zygomatic bone correction which again I see is something Dr Z does.
Would Dr R be a better option then for the improvements that I am going for? What I'm really going for is more WIDTH and less LENGTH.
I see. You like an aspect of your visage (ears sticking out) that contribute to your face looking more narrow. But instead addressing that aesthetic flaw, you wish to compensate for it by making part of the face wider in addition to comments where you want Dr. Z to make an area of your face that's already long, longer. Sorry but can't help with that kind of reasoning.
Flaws in reasoning ability and aesthetic blindness are demonstrated by your NOT noticing that your LOWER '1/3rd' is actually disproportionately LONG compared to your midface (your midface length isn't your problem) and is a contributor to the longness (an narrowness) of your face. Yet you're asking for your lower '1/3rd' to be made LONGER in some hair-brain assumption this will make a part of your lower 1/3rd (chin and lateral chin) 'less pointy' when that area is NOT 'pointy' at all. The CLINCHER here in observational ability is that you want to make your lower 1/3rd LONGER in the process of having MORE WIDTH to the jaws.
For orbital rim advancement whether it be from what they call a 'modified Lefort 3' or implants with midface lift (not skin only but subperiosteal), I have no idea if you know much as to the relationship my suggestion has to making the eyes look less prominent. I just know that patients who DO know the relationship can readily find out who they are. I'm extremely reserved as to giving 'open recs' for doctors when I don't see much insight at all on the part of the person asking about them.
-
Disagree on the bit about the ears needing to be pinned. I think pinning would accentuate the narrowness of the face, while the ears are adding some width at the moment. Your lower third is a bit long, but I do believe the biggest problem here is the length of your midface. The best ways to address a long midface is by adding width to the face, which you could do with malar augmentation or lengthening of the ramus to add proportionality between the three 3rds of your face.
-
Disagree on the bit about the ears needing to be pinned. I think pinning would accentuate the narrowness of the face, while the ears are adding some width at the moment. Your lower third is a bit long, but I do believe the biggest problem here is the length of your midface. The best ways to address a long midface is by adding width to the face, which you could do with malar augmentation or lengthening of the ramus to add proportionality between the three 3rds of your face.
Here's a shot for those who would like to cross reference their perceptive abilities.
For those who think the midface is 'long' (or relatively long compared to the other distances near equal to each other) but the lower face is 'only a little long', how does your perception stack up when it's referenced with relative distance relationships? Likewise, how does your perception of the ears 'enhancing' his midface look to you when they are corrected?
ETA: photo shot included in this post.
-
I see. You like an aspect of your visage (ears sticking out) that contribute to your face looking more narrow. But instead addressing that aesthetic flaw, you wish to compensate for it by making part of the face wider in addition to comments where you want Dr. Z to make an area of your face that's already long, longer. Sorry but can't help with that kind of reasoning.
Flaws in reasoning ability and aesthetic blindness are demonstrated by your NOT noticing that your LOWER '1/3rd' is actually disproportionately LONG compared to your midface (your midface length isn't your problem) and is a contributor to the longness (an narrowness) of your face. Yet you're asking for your lower '1/3rd' to be made LONGER in some hair-brain assumption this will make a part of your lower 1/3rd (chin and lateral chin) 'less pointy' when that area is NOT 'pointy' at all. The CLINCHER here in observational ability is that you want to make your lower 1/3rd LONGER in the process of having MORE WIDTH to the jaws.
For orbital rim advancement whether it be from what they call a 'modified Lefort 3' or implants with midface lift (not skin only but subperiosteal), I have no idea if you know much as to the relationship my suggestion has to making the eyes look less prominent. I just know that patients who DO know the relationship can readily find out who they are. I'm extremely reserved as to giving 'open recs' for doctors when I don't see much insight at all on the part of the person asking about them.
Sorry I must have misunderstood one of the things I noted. I don't wish for Dr Z to make anything longer at ALL. I see my mistake, I didn't want a chin wing for elongation of the chin. What I did want was something to widen the lower third of my face. The picture I posted is with my jaw fully clenched as well so perhaps it doesn't seem as bad. I will post completely relaxed one soon but there is almost no definition to where my jaw. I've also lost considerable amounts of body fat and it is still not there.
But yes, you've nailed that on the head. I don't want ANY length at ALL added to my chin, it's horribly long but I do want width. Is there a procedure available for this apart from implants? Another big problem seems to be that my mandible slopes downwards far toooo much. Which causes the elongation of the lower third so that would need to be rotated slightly?
I really don't have the knowledge of that Kavan. But I would appreciate if you could point me in the right direction. At the moment I am just very worried and confused on what procedures need and just going to a surgeon and getting something done that doesn't improve the overall aesthetic of my face.
Disagree on the bit about the ears needing to be pinned. I think pinning would accentuate the narrowness of the face, while the ears are adding some width at the moment. Your lower third is a bit long, but I do believe the biggest problem here is the length of your midface. The best ways to address a long midface is by adding width to the face, which you could do with malar augmentation or lengthening of the ramus to add proportionality between the three 3rds of your face.
I'm not sure about the pinning now after seeing Kavan's changes. I feel like it does look better after. But perhaps they are just something I am attached to out of comfort. But yes the lower third and mid face is long.Would Malar augmentation help with width even? Or just more protection? I wonder if something were to be done to the zygomatic area it would give the illusion that the face is a bit wider.
Here's a shot for those who would like to cross reference their perceptive abilities.
For those who think the midface is 'long' (or relatively long compared to the other distances near equal to each other) but the lower face is 'only a little long', how does your perception stack up when it's referenced with relative distance relationships? Likewise, how does your perception of the ears 'enhancing' his midface look to you when they are corrected?
ETA: photo shot included in this post.
Thank you so much for the photoshop. It's a big big help in visualising. Yes I definitely see the improvement but I think my attachment to the ears is a more of a childhood attachment one. Just something I enjoy seeing but definitely an aesthetic improvement I can see. And I see the longness in the lower third.
Again, I'd really appreciate any direction to the correct procedures on what to solve. Thanks. Will also post a non jaw tensed photo so you can get a better view of what my jaw is like.
-
I've tried to attach a video and photos. As you can see, the angle of my lower jaw is to see and ramus is almost no existent given making it look like I have no jaw. The lower jaw also begins to narrow to extreme amounts when it goes towards my jaw. And yes now as Kavan has pointed out I can see my orbitals are also quite recessed.
-
Here is a video of my face in motion
https://vimeo.com/441936022
I've tried to highlight my jaw angle and the lack of ramus there is. Just an overall long narrow long with sunken eyes which I wish to change. Again I would greatly greatly appreciate if you could point me in some direction as to how I could change these things.
-
https://imgur.com/a/vfHPUzh
Do these show up?
Yes. Do you have any bite issues? If not, I don't see the need for jaw surgery. At first I thought you had an underbite, but looking at the photos more you look balanced in profile. I haven't read the entire thread so maybe this was addressed already.
I wouldn't do anything.
If you're really intent on doing something, I think the ear suggestion might be the best one. A cheap alternative to that is growing your hair bushier on the sides. But yeah that's about all I'd do unless you have functional problems.
You look good, so this is some type of mental block. Any responsible surgeon should decline you on the basis of aesthetics alone.
-
Yes. Do you have any bite issues? If not, I don't see the need for jaw surgery. At first I thought you had an underbite, but looking at the photos more you look balanced in profile. I haven't read the entire thread so maybe this was addressed already.
I wouldn't do anything.
If you're really intent on doing something, I think the ear suggestion might be the best one. A cheap alternative to that is growing your hair bushier on the sides. But yeah that's about all I'd do unless you have functional problems.
You look good, so this is some type of mental block. Any responsible surgeon should decline you on the basis of aesthetics alone.
BINGO
-
Nice morph for the otoplasty, Kavan. I never thought about the impact of ears on perceived facial width. Posnick had actually recommended an otoplasty for me but I declined because I didn't think it was relevant.
To OP,
Don't get JS. Your jaw is far above average. And you'll look stupid if you get implants.
-
What you really need to go on a consult with ANY surgeon is better perception/observation skills. Communication skills are often lacking due to that and self negating descriptions which could 'translate' to the OPPOSITE of what you might want put you at risk of requesting something you might not want to see on your face after it's done.
Ability to see relative distance relationships (perception/observational skills) is KEY to expressing what you want. When someone sees something correctly, the language to DESCRIBE it follows. Conversely, when someone has a warped perception or poor observational skills the language they use to describe what they 'see' will be off target with objective observation. Case in point, my prior photo demonstration where perceptions of 'long midface'and/or 'not so long' lower 1/3rd pans out as faulty observation when the relative distance relationships are looked at objectively.
I've also gone over the SELF NEGATING language which will NOT serve you well in communicating with a doctor. The most recent of which is describing your eyes as 'sunken' when they are the OPPOSITE of that when they are somewhat PROMINENT relative to the bone structure directly below the eyes. Add the description of 'lack of ramus' or 'non existent ramus. THOSE terms refer to a SHORT ramus where yours is the OPPOSITE of 'short' which by the way, could be deduced via the photo showing the lower 1/3rd is relatively long compared to the upper 2/3rds. Then comes a most recent video with you pressing the skin along your jaw line in a hapless attempt to SHOW you have an 'undefined' jaw angle when you fail to realize that what you are actually showing is a WELL FORMED jaw angle.
Although your face is narrow, it's proportionately so and the longer lower 1/3rd isn't an aesthetic problem for a MALE.
What I'm saying here (and I don't mean to insult) is that your perception/observation is somewhat on the WARPED side and the 'translation' to Z as what you seem to be asking for would resolve to what Post Bimax said; a request to LOOK stupid or worse. GJ's observation as to your having a mental block is also on target.
But don't worry. I took a course in Ancient Babylonian. So, I think I can translate what you might be trying to ask Dr. Z for:
'More WIDTH' at the jaw:
Dr. Z will SEE that your jaw angle area in frontal view, is IN LINE with your TEMPLE WIDTH and pretty much where it should be relative to that (inter-temple distance). So, the way to communicate to him that you want MORE jaw to jaw width (intergonial distance) is to tell him you want a PEAR SHAPED face because you want the upper 2/3rds of your face to look MORE NARROW (by relative distance comparison) than they are already. That is what your PERCEPTION of 'narrow jaw to be made wider' would look like if he is to use your perception as a directive for surgical changes.
Now, let me GUESS at what you probably want to see on your face: Something in the venue of 10% increase in ALL WIDTH dimensions as in a wider: skull/head, inter temple distance, midface, eye to eye distance in addition to a wider jaw.
Here's a photo comparison with the SAME vertical dimensions as prior, your ears not changed. What was changed was an approx 10% increase to the total width. So, if that's the change you had in mind but found it difficult to express, it's IMPOSSIBLE to achieve with surgery.
-
Nice morph for the otoplasty, Kavan. I never thought about the impact of ears on perceived facial width. Posnick had actually recommended an otoplasty for me but I declined because I didn't think it was relevant.
To OP,
Don't get JS. Your jaw is far above average. And you'll look stupid if you get implants.
Thanx. I've added a new but impossible morph based on what I think he might be wanting Dr. Z to do showing an overall increase of the width of the total head.
-
Yes. Do you have any bite issues? If not, I don't see the need for jaw surgery. At first I thought you had an underbite, but looking at the photos more you look balanced in profile. I haven't read the entire thread so maybe this was addressed already.
I wouldn't do anything.
If you're really intent on doing something, I think the ear suggestion might be the best one. A cheap alternative to that is growing your hair bushier on the sides. But yeah that's about all I'd do unless you have functional problems.
You look good, so this is some type of mental block. Any responsible surgeon should decline you on the basis of aesthetics alone.
Yes I do have an underbite. I was given the option to correct it when I was younger from the NHS but I didn't because I just didn't care at the time. My bite is asymmetrical and I'm not sure how to explain this but my teeth seem to sit on a slope. As in they don't point forward rather they point downwards slightly. But thank you for your reply, yes this all could be a mental block too but I do feel as if there is some room for improvement.
https://app.photobucket.com/u/nomad666666/a/446bf23a-a662-4b98-b1d6-e391bd70f628
Imgur link https://imgur.com/a/8Qr4TyD
What you really need to go on a consult with ANY surgeon is better perception/observation skills. Communication skills are often lacking due to that and self negating descriptions which could 'translate' to the OPPOSITE of what you might want put you at risk of requesting something you might not want to see on your face after it's done.
Ability to see relative distance relationships (perception/observational skills) is KEY to expressing what you want. When someone sees something correctly, the language to DESCRIBE it follows. Conversely, when someone has a warped perception or poor observational skills the language they use to describe what they 'see' will be off target with objective observation. Case in point, my prior photo demonstration where perceptions of 'long midface'and/or 'not so long' lower 1/3rd pans out as faulty observation when the relative distance relationships are looked at objectively.
I've also gone over the SELF NEGATING language which will NOT serve you well in communicating with a doctor. The most recent of which is describing your eyes as 'sunken' when they are the OPPOSITE of that when they are somewhat PROMINENT relative to the bone structure directly below the eyes. Add the description of 'lack of ramus' or 'non existent ramus. THOSE terms refer to a SHORT ramus where yours is the OPPOSITE of 'short' which by the way, could be deduced via the photo showing the lower 1/3rd is relatively long compared to the upper 2/3rds. Then comes a most recent video with you pressing the skin along your jaw line in a hapless attempt to SHOW you have an 'undefined' jaw angle when you fail to realize that what you are actually showing is a WELL FORMED jaw angle.
Although your face is narrow, it's proportionately so and the longer lower 1/3rd isn't an aesthetic problem for a MALE.
What I'm saying here (and I don't mean to insult) is that your perception/observation is somewhat on the WARPED side and the 'translation' to Z as what you seem to be asking for would resolve to what Post Bimax said; a request to LOOK stupid or worse. GJ's observation as to your having a mental block is also on target.
But don't worry. I took a course in Ancient Babylonian. So, I think I can translate what you might be trying to ask Dr. Z for:
'More WIDTH' at the jaw:
Dr. Z will SEE that your jaw angle area in frontal view, is IN LINE with your TEMPLE WIDTH and pretty much where it should be relative to that (inter-temple distance). So, the way to communicate to him that you want MORE jaw to jaw width (intergonial distance) is to tell him you want a PEAR SHAPED face because you want the upper 2/3rds of your face to look MORE NARROW (by relative distance comparison) than they are already. That is what your PERCEPTION of 'narrow jaw to be made wider' would look like if he is to use your perception as a directive for surgical changes.
Now, let me GUESS at what you probably want to see on your face: Something in the venue of 10% increase in ALL WIDTH dimensions as in a wider: skull/head, inter temple distance, midface, eye to eye distance in addition to a wider jaw.
Here's a photo comparison with the SAME vertical dimensions as prior, your ears not changed. What was changed was an approx 10% increase to the total width. So, if that's the change you had in mind but found it difficult to express, it's IMPOSSIBLE to achieve with surgery.
Regarding a surgeon doing something I DON'T want done. How much do surgeons actually listen to patients? In this case say I stupidly say oh I want to elongate my jaw, will the surgeon just go along with it or will he provide input as you have as and say no, I don't think your jaw needs any elongating. Of course, as you said I would be extremely worried getting something I think I need and completely messing up.
Do you have any suggestions on looking at myself objectively? Or is it just a skill. I had thought that I had been able to look at myself very objectively but it seems not.
Yes I definitely need to work on expressing what I say though. Regarding the sunken, I meant more so one side of my face seems a bit recessed. A sort of tired look.
https://imgur.com/nLTJVA6 compared to this side https://imgur.com/jv3uR9i
Yes unfortunately I think my perception is extremely warped :(. I think I've gone for so long being certain that my head is narrow that every time I just look at myself my mind automatically makes my face even more narrow than it is if that makes any sense. Or maybe my face is that narrow, not really sure at this point tbh.
Anyway, here is a bite image.
https://app.photobucket.com/u/nomad666666/a/446bf23a-a662-4b98-b1d6-e391bd70f628
Imgur link https://imgur.com/a/8Qr4TyD
The angle at which my teeth sits on doesn't seem right to me and there is also overcrowding which causes some functional problems such as eating and I THINK some breathing problems. So there is some functional reasoning behind my need for surgery but I won't lie the MAIN reason is aesthetic for me.
YES! That morph looks amazing! But I don't expect a complete width change of course. I I would be happy if the area directly below my eye was just 'shoved up' so I don't have as much of a open eyed look. And maybe a bit more projection from the profile. And then some width on the cheekbones and jaw. Again, a very poor explanation on my part I guess.
That's interesting what you've said about the pear shape though. Maybe I've taken good pictures but my face really really does taper inwards. I'm sure that my face narrows considerably from the cheekbones downwards. Of course real life and pictures are different so I guess a consultation will be helpful nevertheless.
Again, thank you so much for your help. I've got my consultation with Dr Z coming in August and perhaps will be able to get one with Dr R soon so I will be sure to update the thread with what they've said if anyone is interested.
Nice morph for the otoplasty, Kavan. I never thought about the impact of ears on perceived facial width. Posnick had actually recommended an otoplasty for me but I declined because I didn't think it was relevant.
To OP,
Don't get JS. Your jaw is far above average. And you'll look stupid if you get implants.
I really can't believe that my jaw is above average. I think I've somehow frauded my pictures to make them look good. But yes, I'll be very careful with what I get done, if anything at all.
-
Oh, you're class 3. This is why you're perceiving facial concavity. I take back my earlier statement. You are 100% a candidate for both orthodontics and jaw surgery. Probably bimax with LF1 advancement and BSSO to bring your lower jaw back.
However, you should be aware that JS in your case is unlikely to address most of those aesthetic concerns you listed. Here's a breakdown of what I think is likely:
Addressed by JS:
- Wonky smile
- Asymmetry (depends what asymmetry you mean)
- Longness of face (lower 3rd may shorten)
NOT addressed by JS in your case:
- Narrowness of face (not a real issue, also would require the 'impossible' surgery morphed by Kavan)
- Lack of cheekbones (requires a different procedures such as ZSO, modified LF3)
- Lack of protection of face (some of this might change. but only a 'piece' of your face will be brought forward with standard bimax)
- Extremely poor gonial angle (not a real issue)
- Extremely narrow jaw (not a real issue)
- Lack of under eye support (minor or non-existent issue. however LF1 has potential to exacerbate)
Without a CEPH or a diagram from a surgeon, it's hard to give more advice. Your next step is to get a consultation and get a plan.
One thing I fear in your case is that you will lose some of the masculinity/angularity of your lower 3rd if you get a BSSO reduction. Be aware of that tradeoff, as well as other aesthetic pitfalls of LF1.
-
Yes I do have an underbite.
Thought it looked that way, but why didn't you mention that?
That changes everything and justifies surgery.
-
Yes I do have an underbite. I was given the option to correct it when I was younger from the NHS but I didn't because I just didn't care at the time. My bite is asymmetrical and I'm not sure how to explain this but my teeth seem to sit on a slope. As in they don't point forward rather they point downwards slightly. But thank you for your reply, yes this all could be a mental block too but I do feel as if there is some room for improvement.
https://app.photobucket.com/u/nomad666666/a/446bf23a-a662-4b98-b1d6-e391bd70f628
Imgur link https://imgur.com/a/8Qr4TyD
Regarding a surgeon doing something I DON'T want done. How much do surgeons actually listen to patients? In this case say I stupidly say oh I want to elongate my jaw, will the surgeon just go along with it or will he provide input as you have as and say no, I don't think your jaw needs any elongating. Of course, as you said I would be extremely worried getting something I think I need and completely messing up.
Do you have any suggestions on looking at myself objectively? Or is it just a skill. I had thought that I had been able to look at myself very objectively but it seems not.
Yes I definitely need to work on expressing what I say though. Regarding the sunken, I meant more so one side of my face seems a bit recessed. A sort of tired look.
https://imgur.com/nLTJVA6 compared to this side https://imgur.com/jv3uR9i
Yes unfortunately I think my perception is extremely warped :(. I think I've gone for so long being certain that my head is narrow that every time I just look at myself my mind automatically makes my face even more narrow than it is if that makes any sense. Or maybe my face is that narrow, not really sure at this point tbh.
Anyway, here is a bite image.
https://app.photobucket.com/u/nomad666666/a/446bf23a-a662-4b98-b1d6-e391bd70f628
Imgur link https://imgur.com/a/8Qr4TyD
The angle at which my teeth sits on doesn't seem right to me and there is also overcrowding which causes some functional problems such as eating and I THINK some breathing problems. So there is some functional reasoning behind my need for surgery but I won't lie the MAIN reason is aesthetic for me.
YES! That morph looks amazing! But I don't expect a complete width change of course. I I would be happy if the area directly below my eye was just 'shoved up' so I don't have as much of a open eyed look. And maybe a bit more projection from the profile. And then some width on the cheekbones and jaw. Again, a very poor explanation on my part I guess.
That's interesting what you've said about the pear shape though. Maybe I've taken good pictures but my face really really does taper inwards. I'm sure that my face narrows considerably from the cheekbones downwards. Of course real life and pictures are different so I guess a consultation will be helpful nevertheless.
Again, thank you so much for your help. I've got my consultation with Dr Z coming in August and perhaps will be able to get one with Dr R soon so I will be sure to update the thread with what they've said if anyone is interested.
I really can't believe that my jaw is above average. I think I've somehow frauded my pictures to make them look good. But yes, I'll be very careful with what I get done, if anything at all.
It's hard for me to keep up with all the many LAPSES and 'disconnects' in the thinking process point out each new one as to correct each step of the way here. This isn't a matter of your getting 'stuck' due to a few pieces of missing information where once those types of gaps are filled in, your logistic process kicks in to figure things out, to some extent. It's looking to be more of a matter where you need people to think for you.
The most recent logical lapse here was showing your DENTAL/bite photos where that should have been the FIRST thing to introduce here. So, GO FIGURE why you didn't figure out why that was the most logical thing to do in the FIRST place and had to be told that dental/bite situation would factor in.
As to your question: '.....do surgeons listen to patients?' as to thwart stupid requests. Some will thwart them but perhaps not take the time to give remedial explanations as to why because it could appear that the patient would need multiple more hours to do so than doing a surgery. Others will accommodate an aesthetic request on grounds that it's patient's responsibility to have reasoned things out before hand. As to an AESTHETIC request, I don't think you can expect every doctor to know that you're asking for something you don't want. They might expect you to know what you don't want. For example, patients wanting chin augmentation often make clear they don't want to look like Jay Leno. https://i.pinimg.com/564x/c4/a0/6e/c4a06ec4f33cbc9feab32486d0d9670a.jpg So, the options are limited to knowing what you want and why or leaving it all to the doctor. In the end, one is left with their own logistics when making choices.
As to your question about how to look at yourself objectively, stop looking in the mirror and study books that engender objective observation. I would suggest Euclid's geometry and Leonardo DaVinci's treatise on painting to name a few.
-
You actually have a good oval face shape but you give me craig david vibes purely from the lower jaw. Its slight but your lower lip is infront of the upper and you would get nice volume in your midface from a setback. Otherwise, nothing wrong with your face
-
I honestly don't see anything wrong with your face at all and think you look quite handsome but most societal standards of male aesthetic beauty.
-
why lefort 1 could exacerbate lack of eye support if maxila is pushed in the front?
-
why lefort 1 could exacerbate lack of eye support if maxila is pushed in the front?
lefort 1 doesn't change eye support at all because it doesn't move the bone areas that support the eyes. It moves the area BELOW that level. It's just that an area moved forward, which is directly below the eye support area, will make the eye support area look relatively more behind.
-
Now, let me GUESS at what you probably want to see on your face: Something in the venue of 10% increase in ALL WIDTH dimensions as in a wider: skull/head, inter temple distance, midface, eye to eye distance in addition to a wider jaw.
Here's a photo comparison with the SAME vertical dimensions as prior, your ears not changed. What was changed was an approx 10% increase to the total width. So, if that's the change you had in mind but found it difficult to express, it's IMPOSSIBLE to achieve with surgery.
I'm interested, on what basis would it be impossible to widen overall width if you could widen the jaw, cheekbones and temples (mostly with implants)?
-
I'm interested, on what basis would it be impossible to widen overall width if you could widen the jaw, cheekbones and temples (mostly with implants)?
Hijacking other people's threads, Quote hijacking for personalized focus.
I don't invite Quote Hijacking of a response of mine aimed at another to be used as a springboard to indulge focus on the quote hijacker's questions/issues.
I addressed YOUR question on the (other) thread you started. That was NOT meant to be an 'invitation' for you to get on ANOTHER person's thread, pull a quote from me specifically targeted to the OTHER person and to use it as a springboard for me to cast focus on your question.
-
you look fine, even handsome. stop f**king around, you just have body dysmorphia, stop looking at yourself and pics of yourself. enjoy your life and chill.
-
Hijacking other people's threads, Quote hijacking for personalized focus.
I don't invite Quote Hijacking of a response of mine aimed at another to be used as a springboard to indulge focus on the quote hijacker's questions/issues.
I addressed YOUR question on the (other) thread you started. That was NOT meant to be an 'invitation' for you to get on ANOTHER person's thread, pull a quote from me specifically targeted to the OTHER person and to use it as a springboard for me to cast focus on your question.
Understood, I thought it would be convenient to ask here since it's possible OP could find it useful
-
Understood, I thought it would be convenient to ask here since it's possible OP could find it useful
thank you
-
ORBITAL RIM ADVANCEMENT along with some cheek advancement. Something in the venue of either what they call a 'modified Lefort 3' or orbital rim implants with midface lift to 'close in' on the eyes and make appear less prominent.
@Kavan: What do you think about orbital rim augmentation with ha granules and fat transfer? would definitely be less invasive than Mod.Lf3 and be associated with lower long-term complications compared to implants.
-
@Kavan: What do you think about orbital rim augmentation with ha granules and fat transfer? would definitely be less invasive than Mod.Lf3 and be associated with lower long-term complications compared to implants.
I'm not thinking about it other than to say that ha granules are no easier to remove than porous implants and fat when placed in small enough parcels for it to LAST are hard to remove if one doesn't like the outcome and wants removal.
-
associated with lower long-term complications compared to implants
That's not necessarily true.