jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: Kristen on June 17, 2012, 06:38:28 PM
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Anyone with recessed mandible or maxilla also suffer from forward head posture? This is the body's way to compensate for less airway space. Does the neck return to a normal position after jaw surgery or is this a permanent side effect from years of jaws being in the wrong positions?
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Great question. I've always wondered the same thing.
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I definitely don't think that would improve on its own. You have to correct this with treating the kyphosis and diaphragmatic breathing and strengthening your longus coli muscles/chin tucks...lower traps and then stretching any areas in the exact opposite position you hold your body in...
Also yeah hyper lordosis I think you just treat by strengthening your core and stomache. I know I CAN be fhp and hyperkyphotic and lordotic. I just have to self monitor it a lot more than the average person bc im so lax
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Interesting!
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Anyone with recessed mandible or maxilla also suffer from forward head posture? This is the body's way to compensate for less airway space. Does the neck return to a normal position after jaw surgery or is this a permanent side effect from years of jaws being in the wrong positions?
Not in my case. I had/have this problem, but always felt that computer work was the culprit. Straightening my posture was a simpler fix before surgery with exercise, mostly anaerobic. My case is unique (lower advancement), but post surgery my jaw muscles are now torqued on the right, pulling my cervical spine out of alignment, so I have to be careful with my exercise choices, so that I don't trigger a wave of muscle spasms from my neck to my eye.
BTW, I noticed that my siblings have the same issues. Both work long hours with computers. Just my observation.
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Interesting topic! I definitely lean forward more, Im sure most of it is poor posture due to years of being plastered in front of video/games computer... But I do have very serious neck issues and yeah tilt my head
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The problem is when the neck is straightened the chin and mandible become/ look even more recessed. Also the Adams apples protrude more with people (males) with forward head posture. I do agree that computer/ video games make this problem worse. The predisposition to it begins with recessed jaws, mouth breathing/ tongue thrust and extractions of teeth. One thing just feeds on another making everything worse.
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I actually plan on seeing a chiropractor a few months before and for a long time after jaw surgery to correct my forward head posture
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Not in my case. I had/have this problem, but always felt that computer work was the culprit. Straightening my posture was a simpler fix before surgery with exercise, mostly anaerobic. My case is unique (lower advancement), but post surgery my jaw muscles are now torqued on the right, pulling my cervical spine out of alignment, so I have to be careful with my exercise choices, so that I don't trigger a wave of muscle spasms from my neck to my eye.
oh weird! i have major neck pain at the base of my head. i do wonder how much of it is caused by my jaw muscles being too tight. neck spasms are the WORST. im considering muscle/nerve blocks to find out where the pain is coming from
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the sad thing is even if you correct your jaw your entire body has adapted to your poor breathing patterns. so fixing one thing will not fix your body. it's a chain and youre just altering one part of the chain.
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That's what is so difficult and devastating with what we have to deal with. Not only do you have to fix the jaws but also do myofunctional therapy, neck and back therapy with exercises and medical massage. Relearn the proper breathing etc. Myofunctional therapy works towards resolving tongue thrust, open mouth posture, attaining nose breathing full time, correct posture etc. Most people with jaw issues don't have enough room in their mouths ideally for their tongues and not as much airway space. This makes it so hard without the jaw surgery to do what others just do easily.
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You guys HOPEFULLY don't have this but in addition to an overcrowded small jaw I have an elevated rotated inverted rib cage. I wonder if there an association in others as well....
Whoever designed me wanted me to have breathing problems.
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You guys HOPEFULLY don't have this but in addition to an overcrowded small jaw I have an elevated rotated inverted rib cage. I wonder if there an association in others as well....
Whoever designed me wanted me to have breathing problems.
Oh s**t. I probably have that too.
Anyway, I do use a forward head posture. I actually think I look better with it because it makes my chin more visible. When I keep my neck and head straight, my chin blends right into my neck. I do intend to seek intervention if it doesn't go away after surgery.
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Oh s**t. I probably have that too.
Anyway, I do use a forward head posture. I actually think I look better with it because it makes my chin more visible. When I keep my neck and head straight, my chin blends right into my neck. I do intend to seek intervention if it doesn't go away after surgery.
I second this as well, the moving the head forward makes me look like I have a chin... DANG YOU STUPID JAWS AND ALL THE PROBLEMS YOU HAVE CAUSED ME GRRRRR!!!!
With this problem I've been going to Physical therapy for the last 6-7 months and wow it helps dramatically with the neck/shoulders, back of my head and in relieving headaches/migraines?
Different subject, but is anyone here a sufferer of severe migraines? Im not sure if its jaw related but... wait wait wait.... WOW I just realized my grandma, my uncle and myself, all with jaw issues suffer from migraines- chance much?
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yes I have this problem quite a bit. I've been getting a lot of alone time lately so I can relax and let my jaw hang the way it should and also let my neck and shoulders be the way they should. Kind of feels like walking around naked otherwise.
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Elevated ribs are really hard to describe but being inverted and rotated is easy
I can feel my sternum come to a point and my right side comes forward more ( from being right handed). A geneticist actually pointed this out to me before I even noticed it
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oh weird! i have major neck pain at the base of my head. i do wonder how much of it is caused by my jaw muscles being too tight. neck spasms are the WORST. im considering muscle/nerve blocks to find out where the pain is coming from
Are you looking into getting permanent nerve blocks?
Yeah, it could be tight muscles pulling in your case. I went through a strange 1 year period where I had deep tissue tingling and pain down the side of my neck. That's now gone, but they have noted recently that my sternocleidomastoid muscle is now pulled further back on the neck. I thought it had atrophied, but it's still there. It's just in a different spot now. This was caused by powerful spasms from a displaced mandible. Oddly, I also have a dropped shoulder on the same side. The fun never ends :D.
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i need to read more about them but these would be temporary nerve blocks to find out where the pain is coming from, i believe they'd wear out in a few hours. what gave me the idea was when i went to my dentist and got a novocaine injection on my left side, my neck pain went away for a few hours.
i have a whiplash type injury to my brachial plexus on both sides, i did to myself from my neck muscles being SO weak. my entire neck and shoulder used to be really lax, especially my shoulder. i LONG for those days, now all my muscles are gridlocked, i think from irritating the nerves so much. my scm muscle in particular used to be grid locked, i felt like i was choking.
the fun NEVER ends and the more i think about it, the more my head spins bc my body is pretty asymmetrical i feel..maybe my right side being so lax (my shoulder is winged) would effect my left side, maybe my tmj is causing my neck pain, maybe my elevated shoulder is causing my neck pain, maybe my loosey goosey pelvis is messing up my entire torso, and on and on *sigh*
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I requested my neck xrays to see it just how straight my neck was....
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000BMI4SW/ref=mp_s_a_2?qid=1340282381&sr=8-2
You can also the rest your head on^ To help restore the curve in your neck but I wouldn't do it if you're having spasms
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i have those except too much neck rotation
i can post some self assessment stuff later...altho neck rotation is kind of obvious i would think you guys would know that
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i have to plug this guys book so i thought id do it here..for anyone looking to get in shape/on computer too much
http://www.fitnesseducationseminars.com/corrective-exercise-strategies-book
you can get an e-copy for ten bucks
he talks about how hip and scapular instability and not breathing through your diaphragm can ruin your entire body. i have seen all of this junk on the internet, been through several pts, and 99 percent of them are wrong and give you exercises that make you worse.
ive seen before and after pics of one of his clients. its amazing!!
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i have to plug this guys book so i thought id do it here..for anyone looking to get in shape/on computer too much
http://www.fitnesseducationseminars.com/corrective-exercise-strategies-book
you can get an e-copy for ten bucks
he talks about how hip and scapular instability and not breathing through your diaphragm can ruin your entire body. i have seen all of this junk on the internet, been through several pts, and 99 percent of them are wrong and give you exercises that make you worse.
ive seen before and after pics of one of his clients. its amazing!!
Hey Trig, thanks! I think I may need this.
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no problem :)
it's geared towards pts but i think anyone could teach themselves the exercises in them. he's on youtube too
http://www.fitnesseducationseminars.com/free-videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/fitnessseminars
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the shoulder stuff is just so spot on. if i had done traditional pt i would be disabled right now, no joke.
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the shoulder stuff is just so spot on. if i had done traditional pt i would be disabled right now, no joke.
I'm going to try this one for the cervical spine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzKg0ri9VtA&feature=plcp
Trig, can you do yoga?
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i do a few pilates moves every day..and i guess pilates is similar to yoga...mostly strengthening with only a tiny bit of stretching. since im hypermobile, i do not know how to stretch. i overdo everything. do you do yoga?
i can post some pilates exercises here too, i have trouble gaining muscle and my stomach muscles transformed in two weeks doing these. like i didnt have a transverse abdominus and obliques, i didnt even know that a muscle was supposed to be there and suddenly BAM there it was. never doing crunches again, what a waste of time!! i need to go back to doing all the exercises. i just do the ones where my head is supported bc the base of my head is always in pain (hope its coming from my jaw)..
if my pt hadnt shown me how to do pilates and i tried them i couldve really effed my neck up even more. any of this stuff, yoga too, can be dangerous.
i like the idea that yoga evan osar and pilates etc etc they keep stressing you need to be able to support your own body weight WITHOUT cheating..like in a quadraped position. babies do this. and grown adults can't? sad state we're in!
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dork alert, i scanned these in so i'd never lose them
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7776/61308624.png)
(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/448/38829796.png)
i do 3 (with foot flexed..it's harder), 7 and toe taps (not pictured) every day
1 and 5 when my necks not tired
the roll up (2) is by far the hardest. i never do that. the rolling ones are kind of fun.
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I requested my neck xrays to see it just how straight my neck was....
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000BMI4SW/ref=mp_s_a_2?qid=1340282381&sr=8-2
You can also the rest your head on^ To help restore the curve in your neck but I wouldn't do it if you're having spasms
I bought one for my son. He loves it and uses it when on computer and playing video games.
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you are a smart mommy!
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i do a few pilates moves every day..and i guess pilates is similar to yoga...mostly strengthening with only a tiny bit of stretching. since im hypermobile, i do not know how to stretch. i overdo everything. do you do yoga?
i can post some pilates exercises here too, i have trouble gaining muscle and my stomach muscles transformed in two weeks doing these. like i didnt have a transverse abdominus and obliques, i didnt even know that a muscle was supposed to be there and suddenly BAM there it was. never doing crunches again, what a waste of time!! i need to go back to doing all the exercises. i just do the ones where my head is supported bc the base of my head is always in pain (hope its coming from my jaw)..
if my pt hadnt shown me how to do pilates and i tried them i couldve really effed my neck up even more. any of this stuff, yoga too, can be dangerous.
i like the idea that yoga evan osar and pilates etc etc they keep stressing you need to be able to support your own body weight WITHOUT cheating..like in a quadraped position. babies do this. and grown adults can't? sad state we're in!
I've never done Pilates but I gathered it was similar to yoga. I'll have to look into it. I love(d) yoga but have to be careful now since surgery. I agree, I can see the potential for injury if done half assed. When feeling lazy, I was guilty of not following through some moves correctly. Having a good instructor close by is best for the potentially risky positions, IMO. At home, I like yoga on DVD. My longtime favorite is with Rodney Yee (http://www.amazon.com/Power-Yoga-Total-Body-Workout/dp/B0000A2ZQE/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/180-7724110-8571734), though I tell friends/family to skip some moves like the inverted crab and full camel pose. The former is too hard on the wrists and both, I feel, dangerous to the cervical spine unless at an advanced training level. Potentially no head/neck support with these. That being said, this workout straightens me out and works pretty much every muscle group.
I saved your print out posted above. I think this is what I really need. Elongation of the spine feels good to me these days. Thanks for putting it up.
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no problem! you know what, i realized i DO do yoga but my own version of it. i have to stretch out my pecs and lats daily. they keep tightening up because my shoulder is so loose. i'll check out that dvd. is this it? http://www.youtube.com/show?p=4_5RRJhaUYQ
my thoracic spine used to be locked up so i need to keep that away. i have tried the camel and cat (?) poses and they flared me up in the past. when i first saw them, i was like oh wow..this is PERFECT for me, i have kyphosis. but my nervous system hates my guts. i can do them now but i dont think i should, it just feels too aggressive. same goes with those foam rollers you see people stretching on. it might be good for your avg person but my body hates it. i actually injured my lower back, pins needles, etc. down my legs because i went too low on my back with it. the scary thing about irritating your nerves is that when you do, you dont feel it immediately after or during unless it's REALLY bad, for me it's always hours later or the next day.
http://www.yogapoint.com/images/leg-movement3.jpg
i do that..i feel it in my pecs. anything with my arms straight i feel in my lats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46gWuodCBjg
this is a *good* example of what my pt and dr. osar keep talking about. activating your longus colli muscle in your neck and not the scm. i'm amazed at the amount of awful youtube videos. clearly these people have never been in pain or they wouldn't be abusing their bodies. my pt said i pretty much need to keep my neck like this as much as possible. you get used to it after awhile.
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no problem! you know what, i realized i DO do yoga but my own version of it. i have to stretch out my pecs and lats daily. they keep tightening up because my shoulder is so loose. i'll check out that dvd. is this it? http://www.youtube.com/show?p=4_5RRJhaUYQ
my thoracic spine used to be locked up so i need to keep that away. i have tried the camel and cat (?) poses and they flared me up in the past. when i first saw them, i was like oh wow..this is PERFECT for me, i have kyphosis. but my nervous system hates my guts. i can do them now but i dont think i should, it just feels too aggressive. same goes with those foam rollers you see people stretching on. it might be good for your avg person but my body hates it. i actually injured my lower back, pins needles, etc. down my legs because i went too low on my back with it. the scary thing about irritating your nerves is that when you do, you dont feel it immediately after or during unless it's REALLY bad, for me it's always hours later or the day.
Popped in my DVD for the first time in a long time last night. I don't know if this would be the best routine for you now that I've reviewed. Might be too agressive. I modified some moves, avoiding any backward flexing of my neck and focused more on extending my spine. This straightened my posture (it usually does) and it has not pissed off my neck muscles, so far. Spine compression seems to make things worse for me. All is good, but I don't have EDS. What type do you have? There are so many.
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i haven't been officially dx'd
but everyone seems to think i have the hypermobile type. my skin is fragile but not THAT fragile and if i had the vascular type i would be having heart problems etc by now. when i was really low on magnesium is when my spine was the worst. it's much much better now but i still get scared...
http://www.hypermobility.org/beighton.php
i can do all of those, except for putting my hands flat on the floor. finding out that i have autonomic dysfunction and eds was a big AHA moment for me, "no you aren't crazy!!"
is an awesome blog about eds.
http://bitsywitheds.blogspot.com/
takling about tmj
http://bitsywitheds.blogspot.com/2012/04/ehlers-danlos-tmj.html
showed him my cervical spine MRI, and he explained why I get pain in the back of my eye, C-1, then C-0 effects the forehead, C-2 effects the cheek, and C-3 the jaw.
Then, he pulled the 4 xrays that had just been taken and explained when I open wide, I dislocate. When I clench, I hit the nerves and ligaments that run through there. When I'm relaxed, hitting the nerves, and with my teeth touching it had increased space. The ligaments are really stretched out.
Because of all that instability I get headaches at the base of the skull, the top of the head, ear pain, ringing in the ears, "sinus infection like" symptms, the weirdest one for me is all the tooth pain (but no cavities to be found).
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i haven't been officially dx'd but everyone seems to think i have the hypermobile type. my skin is fragile but not THAT fragile and if i had the vascular type i would be having heart problems etc by now. when i was really low on magnesium is when my spine was the worst. it's much much better now but i still get scared...
showed him my cervical spine MRI, and he explained why I get pain in the back of my eye, C-1, then C-0 effects the forehead, C-2 effects the cheek, and C-3 the jaw.
Then, he pulled the 4 xrays that had just been taken and explained when I open wide, I dislocate. When I clench, I hit the nerves and ligaments that run through there. When I'm relaxed, hitting the nerves, and with my teeth touching it had increased space. The ligaments are really stretched out.
Because of all that instability I get headaches at the base of the skull, the top of the head, ear pain, ringing in the ears, "sinus infection like" symptms, the weirdest one for me is all the tooth pain (but no cavities to be found).
Geez, Trig. Do you feel your EDS is degenerative or can it be stabilized/improved with avoidance, lifestyle change and PT? How much of a problem was this in childhood/adolescence? Can muscle training help to off-set the effects of lax ligaments? I don't think I could handle headaches on a daily basis, though I do have chronic right side ear pain and a pulling sensation and vision blurriness on that same side. These are for a different reason than yours, but I can certainly emphasize with what you're going through.
I scored only one on the Beighton scoring system. This was for hands on floor, and I can only do this when warmed up and well stretched. Otherwise, this would be difficult.
Wonder how many athletes have at least some form of EDS where extra flexibility comes into play.
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Check out this website. Has good videos on the effects of forward head posture. Shows how the earlier it's corrected the better or it has devastating permanent effects. posturevideos.com
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Check out this website. Has good videos on the effects of forward head posture. Shows how the earlier it's corrected the better or it has devastating permanent effects. posturevideos.com
Thanks, Krista. Will check it out.
From personal experience, I find lifelong exercise, primarily with muscle conditioning, helps maintain a good posture. Other issues can come into play, of course.
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Geez, Trig. Do you feel your EDS is degenerative or can it be stabilized/improved with avoidance, lifestyle change and PT? How much of a problem was this in childhood/adolescence? Can muscle training help to off-set the effects of lax ligaments? I don't think I could handle headaches on a daily basis, though I do have chronic right side ear pain and a pulling sensation and vision blurriness on that same side. These are for a different reason than yours, but I can certainly emphasize with what you're going through.
I scored only one on the Beighton scoring system. This was for hands on floor, and I can only do this when warmed up and well stretched. Otherwise, this would be difficult.
Wonder how many athletes have at least some form of EDS where extra flexibility comes into play.
you are lucky!! lol not really. i dont think i get blurry vision? that is very strange. from my experience NOTHING compares to head/neck pain so i'm sure you can relate.
How much of a problem was this in childhood/adolescence?.............
that is a great question, i FEEL like eds is degenerative but they say it is not but honestly, nobody really knows much which is why it's called a "syndrome". how is self-abuse not going to cause wear and tear :p the muscle training is debatable too. i believe it helps. and even if it doesn't help that much, i'm going to keep doing strengthening because it gives me a sense of control. i choose that over pain meds. my right shoulder does this (to a lesser degree) (http://www.southamptonshoulderclinic.com/images/winging-scapula/why.jpg)
and the tx is neurontin????? um, no don't think so!! doctors are freakin clueless to this stuff, my shoulders are both winged and only one doctor looked at my shoulders said a little winged. obv i have been giving myself whiplash but it took 12 doctors+3 physical therapists to even tell me hey you're abusing the s**t out of your neck, wear a neck brace for a little while. i hope hope hte strengthening helps but i also have like post-injury neuropathy (from overstretching my neck). my hands have been slightly numb now for 2 years despite all normal test results :( it's why im such a lazy typist. i really hope strengthening my shoulders fixes this but it might not.
let's see, during childhood.. my sx were clogged ears, i actually thought i had swimmers ear ALL year round, which i believe is from neck instability or tmj. and i noticed my heart beat too fast. i took dance classes and i was scrawny. i never dislocated anything. in the mornings i always felt like i was going to vomit..i think this is heart-autonimc related.
adolescence. scrawnyness more apparent. people started saying i had a really weak hand shake and liked petting my hands because they were so soft. in the mornings i dont remember being as nauseous but i was very very spacey in the mornings and walking around. caffeine/sugar addictionmakes autonomic issues worse. people comment that i move a certain way, "willowy". mostly spacey, sometimes anxious. no pain.
early 20s. spaceyness turns into straight up anxiety. i think i have some kind of weird social phobia. riding the train (when there's no seats and you have to stand) i feel really panicky and dizzy. standing in lines same deal. no pain.
mid 20s--28. body breaks down. arms start swelling up (no idea why) hurt my brachial plexus many many times without ever going to the doc. then hurt my neck without going to the doc. extra cracky, hips crack, sternum, clavicle, shoulders, neck. autonomic nervous system messed up. could barely walk around a grocery store since hurting my neck. no train rides, if i wait in line, i have to kneel down and drink water CONSTANTLY or else i feel faint. i am better than i was a year ago tho.
most people with eds dislocate so i imagine being an athlete would be very difficult. especially with the autonomic dysfunction. however, they'd make great contortionists, lol. i'm sure they degree of their physical activity correlates with the degree of eds unless you're a real trooper. mine isn't nearly as bad as some, especially if i had been dx'd early and strengthened.
hormone fluctuations ive read can make your connective tissue more lax.
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a good way to test your autonomic nervous system is to take your pulse and bp lying down after 5 minutes. then immediately take it upon standing, if your bp drops, that's bad. and if your hr increases by more than 30 beats. that's bad too. i think the two usually go together
Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS, also postural tachycardia syndrome) is a condition of dysautonomia,[1] to be more specific orthostatic intolerance, in which a change from the supine position to an upright position causes an abnormally large increase in heart rate, called tachycardia. Several studies show a decrease in cerebral blood flow with systolic and diastolic cerebral blood flow (CBF) velocity decreased 44% and 60%, respectively.[2] Patients with POTS have problems maintaining homeostasis when changing position, i.e. moving from one chair to another or reaching above their heads. Many patients also experience symptoms when stationary or even while lying down.
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doctors are freakin clueless to this stuff, my shoulders are both winged and only one doctor looked at my shoulders said a little winged. obv i have been giving myself whiplash but it took 12 doctors+3 physical therapists to even tell me hey you're abusing the s**t out of your neck, wear a neck brace for a little while. i hope hope hte strengthening helps but i also have like post-injury neuropathy (from overstretching my neck). my hands have been slightly numb now for 2 years despite all normal test results :( it's why im such a lazy typist. i really hope strengthening my shoulders fixes this but it might not.
let's see, during childhood.. my sx were clogged ears, i actually thought i had swimmers ear ALL year round, which i believe is from neck instability or tmj. and i noticed my heart beat too fast. i took dance classes and i was scrawny. i never dislocated anything. in the mornings i always felt like i was going to vomit..i think this is heart-autonimc related.
adolescence. scrawnyness more apparent. people started saying i had a really weak hand shake and liked petting my hands because they were so soft. in the mornings i dont remember being as nauseous but i was very very spacey in the mornings and walking around. caffeine/sugar addictionmakes autonomic issues worse. people comment that i move a certain way, "willowy". mostly spacey, sometimes anxious. no pain.
early 20s. spaceyness turns into straight up anxiety. i think i have some kind of weird social phobia. riding the train (when there's no seats and you have to stand) i feel really panicky and dizzy. standing in lines same deal. no pain.
mid 20s--28. body breaks down. arms start swelling up (no idea why) hurt my brachial plexus many many times without ever going to the doc. then hurt my neck without going to the doc. extra cracky, hips crack, sternum, clavicle, shoulders, neck. autonomic nervous system messed up. could barely walk around a grocery store since hurting my neck. no train rides, if i wait in line, i have to kneel down and drink water CONSTANTLY or else i feel faint. i am better than i was a year ago tho.
most people with eds dislocate so i imagine being an athlete would be very difficult. especially with the autonomic dysfunction. however, they'd make great contortionists, lol. i'm sure they degree of their physical activity correlates with the degree of eds unless you're a real trooper. mine isn't nearly as bad as some, especially if i had been dx'd early and strengthened.
How does water help with your dizziness? Your anxiety seems related to your dizziness or the expectation of a blackout/dizziness. I don’t know. Your condition is complicated, so this is just a shot in the dark. My mother, siblings and I have to keep well hydrating otherwise we get a BP drop. Drinking water alone doesn’t help much. Some solutes have to be present. My mother has the worst of it, and over the past couple of years she had lost a lot of her ability to function when standing. She had dizziness, shortness of breath and fatigue. Doctors told her to drink more water, that she was just dehydrated. She was drinking quite a bit, but it only helped a little. I believe now that plain water just ran right through her. Then she was hospitalized late last year for a food allergy and was kept over because her BP was far too low and it was difficult getting her numbers up with a drip. They did get it up to 80 over something (can’t recall diastolic). It was still pretty low. So, she was sent to cardiology. Tested her for everything. Nothing abnormal was found. The cardiologist, completely stumped, prescribed some salt water throughout the day (don’t try this w/out a cardio/kidney workup). It worked. Now I can’t get the woman slow down and take a load off :D. She has quite a bit of energy now, she just couldn’t hold on to fluids without a little help. Same with me to a lesser degree. So, I try to incorporate some salt and/or electrolytes and avoid drinking too much pure drinking water. Dehydration and low blood volume/anemia leads to a pounding heart in my case. Getting these under control takes care of this. Again, your case is complicated so don't know if this is a solution for you.
I don’t know about your arm edema. That is odd. A family member had her lymph nodes surgically removed (breast cancer) and edema resulted in the one arm. The numbness in your hands sounds like nerve damage. My mother has some of the same in one hand due to an auto accident related shoulder/nerve injury. She has sensory loss but full dexterity with that hand. There is, however, complete muscle wasting between her thumb and index finger. She sounds like a wreck (lol) but she’s really quite healthy, knock on wood. Do you see unusual muscle loss/wasting? I’d say wear a neck brace when you can, just to allow for some healing/rest, but that’s just me.
My eye blurring is weird. It goes along with my right side muscle spasms, so I believe it’s related. Plus, I also have the sensation of pulling on that eye. Oddly, however, my spasms have not been too bad since I recently started taking antibiotics (unrelated reason). This is the third time that I’ve been on these over the past few years, and I always get much improvement with eye, ear and joint pain and spasms. Hoping that this is just a coincidence.
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a good way to test your autonomic nervous system is to take your pulse and bp lying down after 5 minutes. then immediately take it upon standing, if your bp drops, that's bad. and if your hr increases by more than 30 beats. that's bad too. i think the two usually go together
I'll try this. Thanks!
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for your sake i really hope the antibiotics are a coincidence too!! i have a love/hate relationship with antibiotics. mostly hate. bacterial infections really scare me.
your mom is smart she had the kidney/cardio work up. i have had the basic kidney test which was normal. when my mag was so low i wanted to see a nephrologist and they were a b*tch about seeing me because my levels were normal so i didn't go! i need to see a cardio but i keep putting it off. there's a tilt table test tehy do for fainting, your mom might've had that done?
i did drink salt water for awhile. i swapped salt for my caffeine addiction >_< I am much smarter (higher hr and bp i guess!) with caffeine in my system. and i'm not as thirsty. it's good to drink water but at the rate i'm doing it, you're right, not good. your mom sounds like me. flushing all of her electrolytes out!
i've done a "salt" fast where i did't have much salt (impossible to completely avoid it) for 24/hrs. and then i tested my salt levels and a hormone called aldosterone.. "It acts mainly on the distal tubules and collecting ducts of the nephron, the functional unit of the kidney, to cause the conservation of sodium, secretion of potassium, " so anyways, flip side, low aldosterone is correlated to low salt and high potassium. i have that. not freakishly low or else i'd be in bad shape. i also worry that with the neck pain (and you're totally right, just the ANTICIPATION of getting a neck spasm, makes me anxious)... my bp sometimes actually gets high. or i should say my diastolic? bp. but it only happens sometimes.
sounds like your mom injured her brachial plexus too? That is bad, if she had muscle wasting in her hands. My hands are normal but my shoulders are emaciated. i have no rotator cuff muscles and my right shoulder wings a LOT more than my left, which would mean i hurt my long thoracic nerve. did she get dizziness after the accident? how long did it take for her to feel like her old self? i overstretched my neck in october of 2010 and hurt my shoulders in march 2010 :( the neck bracing does help. i wish i had known about it sooner!! that is reassuring your mom had such a severe injury and she is healthy!
the edema i expperience is very subtle and depends on what position im in. my pt has had several theories about it
--rsd/crps "Complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS), formerly Begum Syndrome, is a chronic progressive disease characterized by severe pain, swelling and changes in the skin. It often affects an arm or a leg and may spread to another part of the body and is associated with dysregulation of the autonomic nervous system resulting in multiple functional loss, impairment and disability." um yeah, so she is wrong about this. i've read forums about people with crps and they all live in snuggies because they can't stand harsh fabric touching them and sweat excessively, turn red, etc etc. it really doesn't describe me at all.
--my c7 transverse process (bone in the side of my neck) is too big. i had a cervical mri and they said it was normal. and then i got another person to look at the mri and they said it was normal but my pt insists the bone is big. so i watched these youtube vids on how to read a cervical mri. just the basics. and to me it looks kind of big too!! but what do i know. this is a bird's eye view of it, the transverse process is the part that looks like a leaf.
(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5739/amri.png)
having a big bone or just winged shoulders and numbness and edema would mean i have thoracic outlet syndrome "Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS) is pain, numbness, tingling, and/or weakness in the arm and hand due to pressure against the nerves or blood vessels that supply the arm. It is due to tight muscles (my pec minor!!), ligaments, bands, or bony abnormalities in the thoracic outlet area of the body (big c7?), which lies just behind the collar bone. Pressure on the nerves is the problem more than 90% of the time, but occasionally the artery or vein is involved."
^anyways, that's what i think i have. i was going to demand a brachial plexus mri but my pt said it would probably come back normal
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I'll try this. Thanks!
yeah you should! if you have the edges of your vision get dark after standing, its probably the bp dropping. that's my experience
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http://www.trxtraining.com/
(http://mycbrc.com/v2/sites/mycbrc.com/files/trx_training.jpg)
suspension equipment is cool, it's what im using in pt.
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your mom is smart she had the kidney/cardio work up. i have had the basic kidney test which was normal. when my mag was so low i wanted to see a nephrologist and they were a b*tch about seeing me because my levels were normal so i didn't go! i need to see a cardio but i keep putting it off. there's a tilt table test tehy do for fainting, your mom might've had that done?
Well, she didn't really have a choice. She does not like going to the doctor, and rarely goes, but her low BP freaked me out. I thought she was in heart failure. She didn't have a tilt test, but they did a full cardiac and kidney workup. Perhaps a visit to an endocrinologist wouldn't hurt now that you mention aldosterone. This may explain a lot. I don't know if I could get her to go, though. She complains about her cardiology follow ups.
i did drink salt water for awhile. i swapped salt for my caffeine addiction >_< I am much smarter (higher hr and bp i guess!) with caffeine in my system. and i'm not as thirsty. it's good to drink water but at the rate i'm doing it, you're right, not good. your mom sounds like me. flushing all of her electrolytes out!
I love caffeine, too! I've had to cut most of it out since it pisses off my jaw :-[. Turkish coffee was my favorite. Makes my head rocket right off :D. Flushing minerals out is so not good for the body. I think you had mentioned somewhere else that minerals were underrated within the vitamin/supplement industry. I think that because of this, there is not much publicity, so people forget their importance.
sounds like your mom injured her brachial plexus too? That is bad, if she had muscle wasting in her hands. My hands are normal but my shoulders are emaciated. i have no rotator cuff muscles and my right shoulder wings a LOT more than my left, which would mean i hurt my long thoracic nerve. did she get dizziness after the accident? how long did it take for her to feel like her old self? i overstretched my neck in october of 2010 and hurt my shoulders in march 2010 :( the neck bracing does help. i wish i had known about it sooner!! that is reassuring your mom had such a severe injury and she is healthy!
I'll have to ask her again, but I do think it was in the brachial plexus region. I don't recall if she had dizziness afterwards. I was in the U.S. and she was in Holland at the time. She did have extensive PT for about a year then was advised to move to a warmer climate, so she moved back to the States. Cold weather aggravated her shoulder. After therapy and moving back, she seemed fine. Every so often she would complain of stiffness and some localized pain, but a steam sauna and/or hot tub seemed to take care of it. She did little to zero PT here in the U.S. The muscle wasting is only confined to that small area between her thumb and index finger. The muscles appear normal along the rest of that arm. Very strange, though.
having a big bone or just winged shoulders and numbness and edema would mean i have thoracic outlet syndrome "Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (TOS) is pain, numbness, tingling, and/or weakness in the arm and hand due to pressure against the nerves or blood vessels that supply the arm. It is due to tight muscles (my pec minor!!), ligaments, bands, or bony abnormalities in the thoracic outlet area of the body (big c7?), which lies just behind the collar bone. Pressure on the nerves is the problem more than 90% of the time, but occasionally the artery or vein is involved."
Depending on the degree of edema, this alone could put pressure on the nerves, I would think. Does your hand numbness coincide with arm edema?
anyways, that's what i think i have. i was going to demand a brachial plexus mri but my pt said it would probably come back normal
I would ask, just to rule in/out the unknown(s). This way you can focus on PT that is most helpful.
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you guys beat me to it! yes raynauds. i dont understand i didnt have it before that i coudl tell. over the last couple of years i definitely started getting it, not purple hands but white hands or usually, one hand will darker pink and my veins will bulge and i can feel the blood pooling. yuck.
Other (causes)
Physical Trauma, such as that sustained in auto accident or other traumatic events
Lyme Disease
hypothyroidism
cryoglobulinemia
malignancy
reflex sympathetic dystrophy
carpal tunnel syndrome
Magnesium Deficiency
Multiple Sclerosis
Erythromelalgia
+EDS im screwed
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Well, she didn't really have a choice. She does not like going to the doctor, and rarely goes, but her low BP freaked me out. I thought she was in heart failure. She didn't have a tilt test, but they did a full cardiac and kidney workup. Perhaps a visit to an endocrinologist wouldn't hurt now that you mention aldosterone. This may explain a lot. I don't know if I could get her to go, though. She complains about her cardiology follow ups.
I love caffeine, too! I've had to cut most of it out since it pisses off my jaw :-[. Turkish coffee was my favorite. Makes my head rocket right off :D. Flushing minerals out is so not good for the body. I think you had mentioned somewhere else that minerals were underrated within the vitamin/supplement industry. I think that because of this, there is not much publicity, so people forget their importance. I'll have to ask her again, but I do think it was in the brachial plexus region. I don't recall if she had dizziness afterwards. I was in the U.S. and she was in Holland at the time. She did have extensive PT for about a year then was advised to move to a warmer climate, so she moved back to the States. Cold weather aggravated her shoulder. After therapy and moving back, she seemed fine. Every so often she would complain of stiffness and some localized pain, but a steam sauna and/or hot tub seemed to take care of it. She did little to zero PT here in the U.S. The muscle wasting is only confined to that small area between her thumb and index finger. The muscles appear normal along the rest of that arm. Very strange, though.
Depending on the degree of edema, this alone could put pressure on the nerves, I would think. Does your hand numbness coincide with arm edema?I would ask, just to rule in/out the unknown(s). This way you can focus on PT that is most helpful.
ha, interesting about the cold weather again!! i'm glad i'm in atlanta where it's a sauna i guess. i'm with your mom, i hate doctors. i hate going to the doctor, that's why i kind of gave up and started reading about all of this myself.
so with thoracic outlet syndrome they label it as vascular or neurogenic but i read this
The terms neurogenic and neurovascular are misconceptions. They are clinical terms. Nerves DO have a blood supply! (arteries, veins, and lymphatics)1 Image the artery and you image the nerve that binds to the artery for its nutrient blood supply. Research shows, compressing a nerve also compresses the blood supply.
is interesting to me
that's a good question about edema. i would say my arms "swelling" is correlated with a heavy heavy feeling in my arm and then it goes dead/ hands get more numb (it's always numb tho) but that usually doesn't happen with tingling. the tingling is totally random and drives me nuts. i thought i could analyze myself in different positions and figure out what was causing it and it gave up.
pisses me off docs have said i have full range of motion i DO NOT
there are tehse exercises called nerve glides. i can sometimes do them now but i used to not even be able to straighten my arm at my side
a good indicator if you have "neural tension"/impingement (these can be very dangerous so you guys have been warned!)
median
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztm-k1AyHT8
ulnar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezg-4fzp_qE
the slump test, my pt does this and i bomb it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0gZg5bSJuQ
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(i actually started lifting weights last week, so if you guys notice i don't post for a month you'll know why!! i'm in the hospital :D :D)
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ha, interesting about the cold weather again!! i'm glad i'm in atlanta where it's a sauna i guess.
Ha! Yeah, Atlanta is pretty much one big ole' steam sauna. I suppose this is one of the best places to be with joint problems.
The terms neurogenic and neurovascular are misconceptions. They are clinical terms. Nerves DO have a blood supply! (arteries, veins, and lymphatics)1 Image the artery and you image the nerve that binds to the artery for its nutrient blood supply. Research shows, compressing a nerve also compresses the blood supply.
is interesting to me
This is interesting to me, too. Those on the other side of surgery may notice that after the initial/major swelling subsides, numbness waxes and wanes with day to day variations in swelling. For instance, when sleeping flat a couple/few months out, I noticed that when swelling increased so did numbness. I've been wondering about blood supply, as well. Had a conversation with a PA the other day about the pros/cons of icing a wound (or broken jaw) as opposed to leaving it be or applying warmth to increase circulation. She seemed to be a fan of heat in terms of increasing blood supply and inhibiting infections to a wounded area, but she really didn't have a good explanation for icing other than a reduction in swelling. This reduction would theoretically allow for blood to flow unimpeded. I should probably start a new thread on this :D.
there are tehse exercises called nerve glides. i can sometimes do them now but i used to not even be able to straighten my arm at my side
a good indicator if you have "neural tension"/impingement (these can be very dangerous so you guys have been warned!)
median
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztm-k1AyHT8
ulnar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezg-4fzp_qE
Do the median and ulnar exercises help your arms at all?
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(i actually started lifting weights last week, so if you guys notice i don't post for a month you'll know why!! i'm in the hospital :D :D)
Please go easy! ;) You mentioned somewhere that you tend to over do it. Building muscle should be a gradual thing if there are skeletal/joint issues involved. Let us know if you improve with this.
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Sooooo. Lol
There was this one weight lifting exercise I did. Bent over rows and I believe it made my pecs tighter. I started to lose coordination in BOTH my hands the next few days. I stopped this and it mostly went away. Which leads me to believe the nmbness is more of a shoulder problem than neck problem
The ice vs heat is fascinating. Then I've read you can do BOTH to really get circulation going. My experience is with strange nerve sensations burning etc I always enjoy ice and never heat. If my problem is purely muscular then heat (which is never). I think my trauma is all nerve related so I always ice
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I noticed when I take a hot bath my hands get more numb...maybe this is separate...raynauds?
Also ditto on sleeping. My hands sometimes tingle the most when im lying down. Side sleep the edge of my shoulder on the top will get cold and more tingling bc everything is squished? The better I sleep the worse my nerves feel that morning.
This is all getting better but still nowhere near normal
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Do the median and ulnar exercises help your arms at all?
back when i was really traumatized, like the nerves and tissues etc. they made me worse now i think they make me better. i can do them without my hands tingling afterwards!!! i just feel this deep pull in my wrists. anyone on the comp a lot shoudl do these gently i think just as a preventative thing
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Sooooo. Lol
There was this one weight lifting exercise I did. Bent over rows and I believe it made my pecs tighter. I started to lose coordination in BOTH my hands the next few days. I stopped this and it mostly went away. Which leads me to believe the nmbness is more of a shoulder problem than neck problem. Then I've read you can do BOTH to really get circulation going. My experience is with strange nerve sensations burning etc I always enjoy ice and never heat. If my problem is purely muscular then heat (which is never). I think my trauma is all nerve related so I always ice
Hey, glad that you're alive and not hospitalized! Was beginning to worry.
Glad to read that your hands have improved. As bad as your condition is, I would rather the problem be in the shoulders than the neck. Spinal injuries can lead to all sorts of serious issues, it seems. I will have to try to ice/heat combo for circulation. It couldn't hurt at this point.
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I noticed when I take a hot bath my hands get more numb...maybe this is separate...raynauds?
Also ditto on sleeping. My hands sometimes tingle the most when im lying down. Side sleep the edge of my shoulder on the top will get cold and more tingling bc everything is squished?
Do your hand and/or feet ever turn deep red (or purple)? I ask because a doctor that I was looking into has a condition called Erythromelalgia. It doesn't really sound like you but thought it wouldn't hurt to throw it out there. It's a neurovascular in nature and tingling/burning sensations are common with this.
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im glad too. my first rib elevates though which freaks me out. i can't figure that out. if my pt is correct in saying that it's going up and down depending on my activity or if it's always elevated or always down. yesterday i overstretched and i swear it's up. making me neurotic.
my biggest neck issues are at the base of my head. my head feels like it weights 400 lbs ever since i injured it.
Do your hand and/or feet ever turn deep red (or purple)? I ask because a doctor that I was looking into has a condition called Erythromelalgia. It doesn't really sound like you but thought it wouldn't hurt to throw it out there. It's a neurovascular in nature and tingling/burning sensations are common with this.
no, thank god! the burning has mostly stopped.
side note. so this feeling i have around my bp area, i've gotten it in my lower body too ..to a lesser degree when i did a foam roller stretch and i went too low on my back aka lumbar spine. my calf muscles started feeling FUNKY and i have small calf muscles so i know it's nerve-related. that's how my armpits and side of my neck/levators etc feel all the time.
i am trying to correct my hips too.
work is freaking me out. so stressed. wah.
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felt this was appropriate
http://www.sofmmoo.com/english_section/3_dorsal_thoracic_pain/ais_levator_notalgie.htm
thoracic pain can trick you!
The cervical spine may be the source of many pain syndromes, including : neck pain, headaches of cervical origin, cervical radiculopathies, upper thoracic pain and even shoulder and elbow pain. This paper deals with the referral of cervical pain to the upper part of the thorax. The major point is that in this case, the pain is felt at the thoracic level and not in the neck (or at a lesser extent). The clinical experience leads to the description of two different syndromes (in fact, very closed one from the other): the Splenius Cervicis syndrome, also known as interscapular pain of cervical origin and the Levator Scapula syndrome.
The unexpected referral pattern is due to the distribution of the nerves and to the presence of two particular muscles the Splenius Cervicis and the Levator Scapula), which seem to transmit the pain to their lower attachment.
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Thus, in these cases, the Levator Scapula syndrome could be regarded as a C4 or C5 radiculopathy.
i have really really painful levators. i hope its just my shoulders being weak and not referred pain from my neck :(
another thing i read recently, on pt forum (yes they do exist), is that trying to strengthen your upper body when you don't have proper thoracic mobility is a very bad idea. you need to make sure you have good mobility.
(http://physicaltherapyweb.com/articles/article_images/closer-thorax-2.jpg)
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this is blowing my mind, it's about thoracic outlet but could apply to any nerve folks
Release Phenomenon
-during daily activities, the
brachial plexus is being
pulled down
-when a nerve is very slightly
stretched (8% beyond its
normal, resting length)
venous pooling occurs
around the nerve
-this inhibits blood flow to
the peripheral nerves
Release Phenomenon
• In sitting and standing,
the nerves are under
tension, due to the
effects of gravity
• When the person goes
to bed, the tension on
the nerves is gradually
released
At the moment the
normal function
returns, (typically with
sleeping at night),the
axons fire and
patient’s experience
parasthesias
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i tried doing push up plus again, this is a very popular exercise for scapular instability and it sucks ass. it flared me up. i actually think it elevated my ribs, but i'm not entirely sure. my pt keeps pushing me into these, so we're going to have to have a little talk when i go back on wed.
pushup plus:
at 4:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mve_pIrXGyo&t=4m45s
dr. osar actually shows a really strong guy who can't do the exercise, it looks painful.
he says its all about motor control, not strength
i think the exercises which are benefiting me the most are CABLE ROWS and regular pushups against a sink (if i do these on the floor my pec muscles kick in too much)
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feeling down about all this
went to pt to ask about lifting weights or some kind of machine exercise and she said no. she would only trust me to do cable rows on a machine, my body cant handle anything else. so maybe ill buy some cheap row machine
everything now is being blamed on my big transverse process in my neck.
i feel like if i just do what she says ill NEVER gain any muscle in my back. especially since i hate the push up plus and she's run out of exercises to give me.
next week i guess ill ask her what her long term plans are for me as far as my shoulders are concerned. :(
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feeling down about all this
went to pt to ask about lifting weights or some kind of machine exercise and she said no. she would only trust me to do cable rows on a machine, my body cant handle anything else.
i feel like if i just do what she says ill NEVER gain any muscle in my back. especially since i hate the push up plus and she's run out of exercises to give me.
Trig, this sucks. Cable rows look like a decent upper body exercise. How are you handling these? Is she a good PT, or are you with her because you don't have a choice?
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hey nef :-*
the cable rows are awesome, ive been looking at machines on walmart. i could just get one shipped to my house and sell on craiglist if i stop using it. the gym seems so pointless since id only use one machine for 2 minutes. pt put me on a REAL seated row machine with the lowest weight and it was easy. there werent cables tho, just bar handles and a place to rest your chest. i really liked this equipment but it looks expensive, the cables are cheaper.
my pt saved my life in the beginning, she told me to brace my neck and put pillows under my armpits (gives shoulders a rest) AND to get my magnesium checked. now its a major plateau. i'm too lazy to change tho, there are 2 other pts in the facility, i wonder if they know anything different.
i had been to 3 pts before her and they were all AWFUL. so i chose her, insurance doesnt cover my visits anymore. hasnt since 2011.
ill post any decent machines i see. theyre suprisingly confusing. some look like they do seated rows but they dont
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dont mind me, i have to rant some more. too much coffee. i might change my mind about all of this tomorrow, lol
ive been looking at my parents posture, and this is where all the posture stuff makes me question myself
my mom has AWFUL posture, she's older so it's excusable but it's awful.
dowager's hump,
big-boobied-back (depressed shoulders, downturned scaps), shoulder impingement, cant do any of the shoulder mobility stretches i do on the wall,
must have zero sex hormones bc post-menopausal and awful diet,
she eats TERRIBLY, she takes some multivitamin, which might help a very tiny bit if at all,
SHE IS NOT IN PAIN EVER. on the flip side she isn't sedentary for her age. she's always hunched over doing house/yard work or driving around. she sits but not for very long
my dad has AWFUL posture
dowager's hump,
elevated and slightly winged shoulders (very similar mine but with a bunch of muscle around them) shoulder impingement, cant do any of the shoulder mobility stretches i do on the wall,
bad bad forward head posture
his diet isn't as bad as my moms but it's still not good, he has blood sugar issues and eats tons of carbs
must have zero sex hormones bc he's so old (76......)
he has heart problems so he is extremely sedentary yet he has no upper body pain, he has lumbar/hip issues from when he was younger.
but i still wonder since my bone structure is very very similar to his, what if he has a large c7 (he's too overweight to really tell)? his ribs feel slightly elevated, he is not pain! his hands are not NUMB.
anyways, it has me thinking my pain is mostly from an injury and the magnesium deficiency from taking pain meds to treat the injury.
my pain is NOT FROM--
not eds (altho the eds made it 100000000000000000x easier to injure myself),
not any suboptimal hormonal thing
not even bad posture. the bad posture just makes it more likely for me to injure myself.
but then once youre already injured you have to have perfect posture bc your body remembers being injured. it's like PTSD
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coffee time :)
http://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Sick-Chronically-Caregivers/dp/0861716264
im going to buy this book ^ i really like the idea behind it, kind of a zen way to deal with pain... the title is awful tho.
Welcome to my website about my book, How To Be Sick: A Buddhist-Inspired Guide for the Chronically Ill and Their Caregivers. Foreword by Sylvia Boorstein.
I fell ill on a trip to Paris in 2001 with what the doctors diagnosed as an acute viral infection, but I never recovered. I wrote this book while bed-bound – on my back, laptop on my stomach, notes strewn about on the blanket, printer within arm’s reach.
My goal in writing it was to help and inspire those who must meet the challenges posed by any chronic illness or condition: coping with the relentlessness of symptoms; weathering fear about the future; coming to terms with a life of relative isolation; facing the misunderstanding of others; dealing with the health care system; and, for a spouse, partner, or other caregiver, adapting to so many unexpected life changes.
The book contains easy-to-learn tools and practices to help people live skillfully, maintain equanimity, and even find joy despite the profound changes in their lives. Each tool and practice is illustrated with examples from my own experience, so the book is also highly personal.
Although our bodies may be sick or otherwise disabled, our minds can be at peace.
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so one of the pts i went to (a good one) has posted answers on a site called SHARECARE. i thought i'd post some--
Could uneven shoulders indicate any issue?
Uneven shoulders can be observed in a couple of planes. One of the most common observations is when one shoulder looks higher than the other. This could indicate either a structural, muscular or neural imbalance.
Structurally, the patient may have a leg length discrepancy or a scoliosis that causes the shoulders to be raised on one side.
Muscularly, the shoulder blade or scapula has multiple muscles that stabilize it in position. Muscular imbalances can easily occur that cause certain muscles of the scapula to pull it in a certain direction. For example, in many single arm-dominated sports such as baseball or tennis, the dominate arm tends to over-develop the latissmus dorsi which is your ‘wing’ muscle. With more muscular development it actually pulls the shoulder blade down. In standing postures, most of these athletes will look like their shoulder is lower on the same side. This can create problem for the lowered shoulder, especially when the arm is required to repetitively raise over their head. With the shoulder lowered it takes greater work of the opposing muscles to raise the arm overhead. Over time, it can cause poor shoulder mechanics and lead to injury of the shoulder.
When someone has chronic nerve symptoms in their neck and arm due to a radiculopathy or pinched nerve in their neck, many times you may see that the shoulder on the same side looks elevated. This is due to the adaptation of the muscles to shorten or spasm to elevate the shoulder girdle and allows more room for the nerve to conduct. Patient’s with this pattern often feel tight in their neck and upper shoulder. When they try to stretching the muscles it makes their nerve symptoms worse. This happens because the muscle is not tight but in protective spasm keeping the nerve from being injured further. In this case it is important to treat the nerve first before trying to lower the shoulder girdle.
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Crunches the best exercise to eliminate my back pain?
No. There is a misunderstanding that the stronger your abs are, the better it is for your back. Although strong abs can help stabilize your spine, current research indicates that there are different roles of muscles in the trunk. Generally speaking, the smaller muscles of your spine called ‘local’ muscles help stabilize the spine in low load situations such as prolonged standing, sitting, and light movements such as bending to brush your teeth. While, there are ‘global’ muscles that are the larger muscles - such as the rectus abdominis, obliques, and back paraspinal muscles that are designed more for movement, power, and stabilization at higher impact.
It is important to have both ‘local’ and ‘global’ systems working correctly. The ‘local’ muscles - transversus abdominis, pelvic floor, and diaphragm help provide intra-abdominal pressure to your trunk. This pressure is similar to a sealed can of soda that maintains the carbonation of a drink. If you were to open the can, you would lose its pressure. Similarly, research from the University of Queensland suggests that with back pain the smaller muscles lose control and thus your intra-abdominal pressure is not as effective to stabilize your spine. Also, along the back of your spine is a muscle called the multifidus. The deeper portions of it run vertebra to vertebra and they are also designed to provide stability to the spine.
We can utilize real-time ultrasound imaging to visualize and cue a client to contract the ‘local’ muscles correctly. Once the ‘local’ muscle work correctly, it is important to do exercises that integrate the ‘global’ muscles - not just with the abs, but also the muscles around the trunk. It is much more effective to do exercises that coordinate the use of these muscles rather than just doing abdominal crunches. Please consult with a qualified health practitioner to guide you through the proper exercise progression
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What can I do for piriformis syndrome?
The pirformis muscle is located deep in your posterior hip, underneath the larger gluteal muscles. The pirformis is involved with rotary stability of the hip. Many times the pirformis becomes overused and spasms. The sciatic nerve can also run over, through, or under the pirformis muscle with patients at times complaining of sciatic nerve symptoms down the leg.Patient's classically complain of deep buttocks pain.
Please consult with a qualified health practitioner to diagnose the cause of pirformis syndrome.
For self-help tips - use of foam rolls to improve the muscle and fascia in the buttocks can help. Improve gluteal stability such as bridges and quarter squats, once the acute buttocks pain subsides, can help as well. I am also a firm believer of also assessing gait mechanics and determining why the pirformis muscle is being over used.
This can be due to a stiff ankle, and unstable pelvis, residual nerve tension from a previous herniated disc that presses on the sciatic nerve. All could be factors that eventually causes the pirformis muscle to compensate - and thus cause pain.
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christ i have all of these :(
What causes neck pain?
There are many causes of neck pain. Many times the joints in the neck wear out due to poor postures or a traumatic injury such as a car accident or sports injury. Patients often assume that their pain after such injuries will go away over time. However, what happens is that the neck joints continue to be irritated and potential arthritic changes can occur.
Other sources of neck pain should be considered as well. This includes trigger points in the such neck muscles as the sternocleidomastoid that commonly cause referred pain to the neck, as well as headaches. The nerves of the neck can also cause neck pain, as well as symptoms in the arm. Muscle stability of the neck is also important especially the smaller muscles that are closest to the spine. The longus colli muscle lays on front of the neck vertebrae and is designed to provide proper stability especially in prolonged positions such as sitting. The joints above and below the neck vertebrae can also cause increased stress to the neck. If the jaw does not work correctly it can cause the neck muscles and joints to work harder to compensate. Likewise, poor postures in the mid-back or thoracic spine can alter the way the neck is used and can cause undue stress at the neck to compensate for poor postures.
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Whenever I see that little Frankenstein avatar, I know it's just going to be nonsense. Is there a way to ignore user's posts?
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Oh im sorry. Right lets just go back to blaming everything on our jaw
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Like seriously I have a whiplash injury and have spent thousands of dollars at doctors and doing physical therapy...and ive spent two years reading about forward head posture. You can call it nonsense all you want but its totally appropriate for this thread.
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I shouldn't say "nonsense", but I would just prefer to ignore the long posts. I was just wondering if there's a way to do so.
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I shouldn't say "nonsense", but I would just prefer to ignore the long posts. I was just wondering if there's a way to do so.
The posts are long but they all contain pertinent information, this thread is about posture and Trig posted a lot of good information about posture. In any case, no there's no way to skip "long" posts and as long as nobody is spamming I think it's fine to be prolific. I've even been known to do it myself from time to time :) so let's keep things as civil as possible. I didn't see any nonsense in what was posted and if you really don't want to read posts by a certain user, the scroll bar on the side does serve a purpose.
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Thanks Steve :)
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Agree with Steve and Trig, Mari. If certain posts do not interest you, scroll through.
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I guess you're right. The posts are just ramblings so I was just wondering if the function exists. The scroll bar can't prevent new posts from showing up.
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Looks like Bob Marley needs to go smoke one
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You're right. That would be nice.
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so two weeks ago for no apparent reason both my palms became less numb. i have NO idea why, they're back to being numb. it's driving me nuts.
im strengthening my rotator cuffs now with 1-2lb weights. the bad pts ONLY address rotator cuff issues... which is bandaid on the wound, effing stupid.
is a test to see if you have shoulder impingement, you should be able to do tihs
(http://www.topendsports.com/testing/images/back-scratch2.jpg)
(http://www.netterimages.com/images/vtn/000/000/011/11057-150x150.jpg)
my right arm only does this which is pretty bad considering im hypermobile
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My right arm is the same exact way but only in the past year. I used to be able to link both hands behind on both sides (like in the first photo) but now only my left arm/hand can move back. What gives? Did I injure my right arm? Why hasn't it healed yet?
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it's not necessarily an "injury" but it will make you more likely to injure yourself in the future!! a lotta athletes have problems with it
i think most people with poor posture will have trouble doing that stretch, if it makes you feel any better. but im like you, i used to be able to do it now i cant at all.
its not going to get better on its own unless you do shoulder mobilization and stability exercises :(
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i think while i have good health ins. im going to get tested for this bc people with ehlers danlos syndrome are more likely to have it but ..im so scared! anyone who's REALLY curious about how their neck functions needs to get a sitting mri. i have only had one lying down. of course it looks fine lying down. hello gravity!
Arnold–Chiari malformation, or often simply Chiari malformation, is a malformation of the brain. It consists of a downward displacement of the cerebellar tonsils through the foramen magnum (the opening at the base of the skull), sometimes causing non-communicating [1] hydrocephalus as a result of obstruction of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) outflow.[2] The cerebrospinal fluid outflow is caused by phase difference in outflow and influx of blood in the vasculature of the brain. It can cause headaches, fatigue, muscle weakness in the head and face, difficulty swallowing, dizziness, nausea, impaired coordination, and, in severe cases, paralysis.[3]
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my rotator cuff muscles are so weak i could barely lift a 1 lb weight!! this is a good strengthening exercise
17.1 Rotator Cuff Infraspinatus Strengthening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiN_ItUwCtQ#ws)
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i don't think i posted this..it's my neck. TOO STRAIGHT, i wonder if it's got more of a curve in it now that i do chin tucks. srsly tho by the way chiros were talking you'd think it was way straighter, to me it doesn't look bad. what looks bad is my c7 bone is effing huge but only my pt agrees it's huge
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg213/scaled.php?server=213&filename=xneckside.png&res=landing)
normal neck
(http://chirobeverlyhills.com/clients/4907/images/Normal%20X-Ray_1.jpg)
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/MRI_of_human_brain_with_type-1_Arnold-Chiari_malformation_and_herniated_cerebellum.jpg/230px-MRI_of_human_brain_with_type-1_Arnold-Chiari_malformation_and_herniated_cerebellum.jpg)
is chiari, the surgery for it is really dangerous
see the brain slipping down
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so i set up a lifeline jungle gym xt at home (trx knock off that's cheaper and i think better)
im doing this exercise every day, im in the same position as photo except on knees (easier) and lifting one arm up
soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hard
(http://www.angrytrainerfitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/trx_system45.gif)
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this is the coolest site ever
http://www.mypacs.net (http://www.mypacs.net)
you can look at case studies by ALL MODALITIES, xray, mri etc. and they have normal cases too. ive been looking through it for hours
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my hands might actually be numb from a magnesium deficiency + bad posture is compressing my thoracic outlet
kind of blowing my mind
i take tons of magnesium every day for a year now and i'm nowhere near the 50th percentile yet
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Damn I think I have this as well.
Add it to the laundry list ::)
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we need to come up with some bulls**t study that "proves" weak jaws are advantageous and then post it all over facebook
and people with just quote and requote the title and at most barely glacne at the abstract
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we need to come up with some bulls**t study that "proves" weak jaws are advantageous and then post it all over facebook
and people with just quote and requote the title and at most barely glacne at the abstract
Nah that'd make us look like an insecure bunch
Just have to act like your the s**t and eventually people will want to emulate you
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okay you go first
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now im doing suspension exercises while kneeling on a bosu ball
soooooo hard, makes you less likely to cheat
bosu ball (i srsly thought it was a mini trampoline)
(http://teamdoctorsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Screen-Shot-2012-05-16-at-9.15.22-AM.png)
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do you guys think muscles are genetic? (i'm obv biased bc of eds)
i remember reading glute muscles and calf muscles are genetic
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do you guys think muscles are genetic? (i'm obv biased bc of eds)
i remember reading glute muscles and calf muscles are genetic
I'm not sure what you're asking... most everyone has those kind of muscles :P
Do you mean muscle size? or muscle insertion?
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ooops, size!!! i saw on tv once this guy getting calf muscle implants and the surgeon said it was genetics (of course tho, he wanted his money)
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ooops, size!!! i saw on tv once this guy getting calf muscle implants and the surgeon said it was genetics (of course tho, he wanted his money)
I think genetics plays a part. I build muscles very quickly, but a friend of mine cannot build up his calves to save his life, AND he's a personal trainer. We eat the same diet so unless he processes proteins differently, I'm gonna chalk it up to genetics.
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I think genetics plays a part. I build muscles very quickly, but a friend of mine cannot builupon his calves to save his life, AND he's a personal trainer. We eat the same diet so unless he processes proteins differently, I'm gonna chalk it up to genetics.
Yeah, I have a big problem with my calves - they are extremely stubborn. They actually have grown a bit recently, but compared to the rest of me they are still not proportional.
I would NEVER consider getting any sort of muscular implants...that's going way too far I think.
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Yeah like the others said, size (and potential to gain size) is partly genetic, most noticeably on the forearms and the calves.
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nef, the trainer had decent sized muscles elsewhere right?
weird you can have potential to gain muscle in some areas but not others....hrmm
that would suck to be a guy and have this problem. i mean you could try implants or hormones but id rather just accept that i was scrawny. implants on your calves are embarrassing!! and hormones are super dangerous.
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nef, the trainer had decent sized muscles elsewhere right?
weird you can have potential to gain muscle in some areas but not others....hrmm
that would suck to be a guy and have this problem. i mean you could try implants or hormones but id rather just accept that i was scrawny. implants on your calves are embarrassing!! and hormones are super dangerous.
It does suck, I have chicken legs and when I gain weight or work out, very little of the mass goes to the calves so it's pretty futile. It runs in the family, my grandfather has it too. My forearms can get pretty big though which is nice.
I've accepted and embraced scrawniness though. 8)
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nef, the trainer had decent sized muscles elsewhere right?
weird you can have potential to gain muscle in some areas but not others....hrmm
that would suck to be a guy and have this problem. i mean you could try implants or hormones but id rather just accept that i was scrawny. implants on your calves are embarrassing!! and hormones are super dangerous.
It seems to be just his calves. I wouldn't have noticed had he not mentioned. He has a naturally skinny and/or lean body type, but it appears that he builds muscle everywhere else just fine. Trust me when I say that his calves do not detract from his overall physique :D. Point is, a man can have underdeveloped calves and look good.
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sounds like a hottie, nef :p
i am embracing my scrawniness more than i used to... at least im pear shaped. i think i read "apples" aren't as healthy lol.
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sounds like a hottie, nef :p
Well, he does seem to bring all the girls (and boys) to the yard. :D
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i had one pt who was really hott, i couldnt exercise, too distracting!!
he actually made fun of my hands, but in a cute way
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this is a good, simple picture of how important serratus anterior is (the bottom electrode)
http://www.massage-research.com/blog/?p=564 (http://www.massage-research.com/blog/?p=564)
(http://www.massage-research.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/fhp.jpg)
These results suggest that maintaining NHP is advantageous in reducing sustained upper and lower trapezius activity and enhancing serratus anterior activity as compared with FHP during loaded shoulder flexion.
nhp=neutral head posture
so when i went to pt for my shoulders i had awful FHP which nobody was addressing due to stupid health insurance restrictions...and yeah i couldn't strengthen at all.
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ugh ive been busting my ass exercising. i think the only place i can gain muscle is around my stomach
like i do all these cable rows and my shoudler wings less but then i stop exercising, go about my day and the stupid thing starts winging again
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i found a good lower trap exercise!! (these are hard to come by!!)
physical therapy guru- lower trap pull (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWoSXjzyHOQ#ws)
some of his exercises suck but that one doesnt
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been looking at collarbones, i think the angle of you collarbone can say how messed up your posture/ shoulders are
my unstable shoulder has a really angled collarbone
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_or3fycEqfEM/RkkqfcQ7bzI/AAAAAAAAADg/L0Z7R3X_w88/s320/Knightley+Collarbone.jpg)
^ mine sticks out at the top of my shoulder like that.
this guys collarbone is really angled like mine and he dislocated his ac joint
(http://www.orthopaedicsurgeon.com.sg/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/AC-Joint-Dislocation.jpg)
(http://www.jurewitz.com/images/ac_joint3.jpg)
the flatter collarbones to me look healthier
(http://www.memorizer.net/jpg/en/clavicle.jpg)
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Going to inquire to my ENT about this today, to see how this posture can be corrected, as I can see it doing major strain on your neck/shoulders over a long period.
I'm thinking I have a small airway passage, that has forced my head into a forward posture to be able to take in extra air. This also fits with both my jaws being recessed, so again it all leads back to the airway being too small.
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Ok I've made a concerted effort to nose breathe only today and 3 things I notice from it:
1. It improves my posture without any effort on my part.
2. It leaves me short on breath even after short walks.
3. My mouth gets really moist when it's closed and clenched all the time, so I have to swallow saliva like every 3 seconds
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i think im not mouth breathing but then i realize i have to take a BIG sigh every so often and it feels a little too good
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I take it both of you have retrognathia of the upper and lower jaw as well?
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Something like that.
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i hope these pics work, theyre how to tell if your shoulders are depressed
(http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S1090380107005812-gr1.jpg)Fig. 1. Subject with normal shoulder. Superior angle of the scapula (SAS) and lateral border of the acromion (A) were on the same level or above spinal process of the second thoracic vertebra (SP2).
(http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S1090380107005812-gr2.jpg)
Fig. 2. Subject with depressed shoulder. Superior angle of the scapula (SAS) and lateral border of the acromion (A) were below spinal process of the second thoracic vertebra (SP2).
my shoulders actually look like the second person's so i guess they're depressed
crazy. hers wing like mine too
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090380107005812 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090380107005812)
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http://www.youtube.com/user/OPTIMPhysTher (http://www.youtube.com/user/OPTIMPhysTher)
this is like what my PT does to help with cervical/thoracic pain. its awesome. NOT the same as a massage, but manual therapy
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Contralateral Limb Raise Video.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHdA819XfVs#ws)
this is the pilates bird dog..i just tired it..it's hard!
i wouldn't do the progressions which involve hyperextending your back. im really against hyperextension. just seems like a bad idea
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my shoulders are winging less!! i can see it. i am doing face pulls at shoulder height with resistance bands
still have a loooooooooooooong way to go
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my shoulders are winging less!! i can see it. i am doing face pulls at shoulder height with resistance bands
still have a loooooooooooooong way to go
What is that?
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i am trying to find a decent video
some of them you see doing actual FACE pulls where the resistance band is at the height of your head, this sets off the wrong muscles for me so i do it shoulder height which is a little lower
like this guy but one arm at a time *start at 30 seconds*
http://youtu.be/00mRajqLPZc?t=38s (http://youtu.be/00mRajqLPZc?t=38s)
as opposed to this (too high)
http://youtu.be/wTvC3mwcWbc?t=41s (http://youtu.be/wTvC3mwcWbc?t=41s)
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i wanna get my pec minor muscle cut out
im so tired of this
im going to ask for botox in my pec minor and see if i notice anything improvement.
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Wait.. After only reading page 1 (forgive me), can someone explain what forward head posture is to someone who could be doing it unknowingly? My head actually leans forward as if I'm looking forwards and slightly downward, so if it's basically leaning your head back and keeping your chin out, I've only done that a few times consciously as it probably makes my chin look more "positive" and in line with my nose, despite it making my forehead look more sloped.. Who thinks of these things you ask? I'm neurotic, I know. :P lol
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nono its good youre paying attn to things like that!! i wish i did before i hurt myself
(http://www.drserbinski.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/upper-crossed.jpg)
this is upper cross syndrome, it involves really more than just your neck, also there's lower cross ( lower body) syndrome. i have both
a gross over summarizatin would be its MAJOR muscle imalances, particular muscles, theres always a pattern, leads your upper or lower body to look collapsed
(http://www.fitness-programs-for-life.com/images/FITP_PoorGoodSitP1.JPG)
also tucking in your chin too much is about as bad as having your neck collapsed foreward, ideally its slightly tucked in neutral all day every day
i could see how someone who is self conscious about a weak jaw would wanna stick their chin out but its bad
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Hmm.. I only started sticking it out slightly recently, but I think I probably do one of those two things.. The middle ground seems a bit hard to figure out.. The second one looks like she has good posture to me, but then again, there's an X over the picture.. :P
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Syndrome just means sx that follow a pattern here....
People with big jaws have it. Jaw isn't the issue
But it absolutely is hyper kyphosis just like lower cross syndrome is hyper lordosis
http://www.cyberpt.com/uppercrossedsyndrome.asp (http://www.cyberpt.com/uppercrossedsyndrome.asp)
Explains more. Some people can sit like this and be pain free... I sure as hell can't (anymore )
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I think women bc of sex hormones and more laxity... If they abuse the posture too much it turns into a pain cycle like micro trauma which leads to worse posture (think RSI) and more pain. Plus bad circulation. its a feedback loop.
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Hmm.. I only started sticking it out slightly recently, but I think I probably do one of those two things.. The middle ground seems a bit hard to figure out.. The second one looks like she has good posture to me, but then again, there's an X over the picture.. :P
Picture b is good. X means is the alignment u wanna be neutral
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Joe Muscolino Pectoralis Minor Palpation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8V_Abfxbs4#ws)
good video for feeling pec minor which makes you hunched. mine is huge
t-spine range of motion (if you can't do this, you got problems!)
Active Range of Motion for the Thoracic Spine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-jI1oxzbSc#)
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THE ANTI-STRETCHING SOLUTION TO CHRONIC TIGHTNESS with Evan Osar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu-FeatPgaU#)
another great vid
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http://www.youtube.com/user/sheenalivingstone (http://www.youtube.com/user/sheenalivingstone)
if anyone's curious what a good PT does..this youtube channel is awesome, talks about the entire body..including tmj
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i woke up choking last night..one one side of my neck, it was really scary
A Kinetic Chain Specialist’s Introduction To The Phrenic Nerve
March 31, 2012 By Dax Moy Leave a Comment
Kinetic Chain Specialist | Phrenic Nerve
The phrenic nerve lies at the C3-C5 level with the main innervation occurring at C4.
(You can remember this as ‘C3-4-5 Keeps the diaphragm alive’)
Its importance to kinetic chain specialists lies in the fact that it is the nerve that innervates the diaphragm and, as such, has a major impact on respiration and all of the important functions that the respiratory cycle is responsible for including maintaining the correct blood alkalinity which, in turn, has an impact on global, chronic inflammation.
In plain English, this means that compression or entrapment of the phrenic nerve (which can occur easily as a result of forward head posture and hypertonic neck musculature) increases the potential for altered neural feed to the diaphragm.
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Feldenkrais Method
The Feldenkrais Method - often referred to simply as "Feldenkrais" - is a somatic educational system designed by Moshé Feldenkrais (1904–1984). Feldenkrais aims to reduce pain or limitations in movement, to improve physical function, and to promote general wellbeing by increasing students' awareness of themselves and by expanding students' movement repertoire.[1]
this is pretty popular type of therapy but ive read either people LOVE it or it puts them to sleep.
pdf book
http://kenanaonline.com/files/0010/10946/Awareness%20Through%20Movement.pdf (http://kenanaonline.com/files/0010/10946/Awareness%20Through%20Movement.pdf)
http://openatm.org/recordings.html (http://openatm.org/recordings.html)
http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/awareness_through_movement_audioprogram.html (http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/awareness_through_movement_audioprogram.html)
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http://www.pressurepointer.com/pain_reference_chart.htm (http://www.pressurepointer.com/pain_reference_chart.htm)
This is a great site
Scm aka from tmj causes "dizziness"... Spot on from my experience
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i dont like this site but this is a sersiouyl good article
http://www.t-nation.com/article/performance_training/how_not_to_warm_up&cr (http://www.t-nation.com/article/performance_training/how_not_to_warm_up&cr)
As I've evaluated some of the exercises commonly used as dynamic warm ups, I've concluded that many of them don't jibe with either common or scientific sense. By deductive reasoning, I've concluded that these movements are based on nothing but nonsense, and should be eliminated from our program. I call these movements the Warmup Don'ts, and I hope that by the end of this article you too will avoid them like you would avoid a warm decaf soy latte.............
excerpt
"Rotation of the lumbar spine is more dangerous than beneficial and rotation of the pelvis and lower extremities to one side while the trunk remain stable or is rotated to the other side is particularly dangerous." (Sahrmann, pg. 72)
(http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/2008/08-072-training/image024.jpg)
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I'm still really new to lower body issues
That sounds like a sprain that needs rest
But Since its both ankles that means there something wrong with your feet
Maybe not enough support in your shoes
Or are your feet flat
Running on uneven surfaces
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Yeah if your arches are high then running would def irritate that. Your ankles are spraining trying to stabilize your foot
Jumping rope just woke up the pain.
Totally guessing! I would browse on runners forums.
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You aren't slightly bow legged by any chance
I've always wondered what causes that...
I know flat feet are associated with knock knees (I have this) curious if the inverses is true
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good luck, i should totally try the wet foot print thing.
hopefully its a tendon type thing, not nerve
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Abnormal Motoric Exam : Stretch or Deep Tendon Reflexes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PILgkVKlAg#)
this video creeps me out
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ooh want
(http://www.silkyworld.8m.net/images/comfort-u-total-body-pillow_500x381.jpg)
since i cant get used to sleeping on my back
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ooh want
(http://www.silkyworld.8m.net/images/comfort-u-total-body-pillow_500x381.jpg)
since i cant get used to sleeping on my back
What is that?
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(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510Tg84BEQL._SY355_.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/The-Total-Body-Support-Pillow/dp/B002ERD5QI/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1358812834&sr=8-9&keywords=full+body+pillow (http://www.amazon.com/The-Total-Body-Support-Pillow/dp/B002ERD5QI/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1358812834&sr=8-9&keywords=full+body+pillow)
oops
total body support pillow, helps keep everything more "neutral" while sleeping on your side, i use pillows to keep my shoulders from flopping around, now im doing something similar with my hips, a body pillow would be useful
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Anyone who's been told their legs are different lengths should read this
http://www.uggen.net/mike/writing/conditions/psoas.htm (http://www.uggen.net/mike/writing/conditions/psoas.htm)
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been "releasing" my pec minor with my hands.
it is superior to stretching i think
(http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sciences/lifescience/generalbiology/physiology/Humanbody/Muscle%20Menu/The%20Shoulder/PectoralisBrach/pecminbrach.jpg)
you can see it there, its hidden under pec major.
so if raising your arms like that, your armpit feels tight inside, its pec minor...if its the outer part, its your lats. mine are both shortened/gridlocked.
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I haven't been following this thread... but based on the profile picture Gunson took during my consultation, I have pretty bad forward head posture.
If my neck is in good vertical posture, my jaw is almost completely absorbed into my neck. To avoid this, I've developed this forward head posture. Gunson has me down for almost 2 cm of advancement (lower jaw), so I'm hoping this corrects the problem (mostly a posture I've developed from being self-conscious of the neck chin look - which is SUCH a bad look).
In any case, I've been trying to work on my posture for the last 6 months or so. But, I imagine I have a long ways to go to get used to a normal posture.
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Yup I didn't realize how underdeveloped my jaw was until I did a "slight chin tuck" (activates the Longus colli and turns off the scm) instructed by my physical therapist
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MYOLIFE CLINIC- Active Isolated Stretch- Coracobrachialis.AVI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUHafTkKe80#)
this is a great underrated stretch
i feel it down into my wrists
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I haven't been following this thread... but based on the profile picture Gunson took during my consultation, I have pretty bad forward head posture.
If my neck is in good vertical posture, my jaw is almost completely absorbed into my neck. To avoid this, I've developed this forward head posture. Gunson has me down for almost 2 cm of advancement (lower jaw), so I'm hoping this corrects the problem (mostly a posture I've developed from being self-conscious of the neck chin look - which is SUCH a bad look).
In any case, I've been trying to work on my posture for the last 6 months or so. But, I imagine I have a long ways to go to get used to a normal posture.
Are you getting surgery with Dt. Gunson ?
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Are you getting surgery with Dt. Gunson ?
Yeah, I'm actually going to be scheduling my surgery date soon. Of the 3 surgeons I've consulted with, his plan was vastly superior to the others... the cost, of course, is another matter.
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http://www.rehabgate.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=85 (http://www.rehabgate.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=85)
someone on this forum is uploading Exercise/therapy books for free 8)
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akwardness aside
Pec Minor Soft Tissue Mobilization (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzuQaMoU5Qc#ws)
works and you dont need to go to a massage therapist. its really easy to find this muscle
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http://www.princeton.edu/uhs/pdfs/Lumbar.pdf (http://www.princeton.edu/uhs/pdfs/Lumbar.pdf)
srsly, these are the exact core exercises that pts will give...great pdf.
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I am still undertaking physiotherapy 18 months post double jaw surgery.
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(http://mm2morph.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/side_plank_5800_7.jpg)
actually gets your serratus anterior (shoulder stabilizer) really good
i can only do the beginners version where your knees are bent
(http://img.md.buc.cmestatic.com/media/images/460x/May2012/60668471.jpg)
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(http://mm2morph.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/side_plank_5800_7.jpg)
Keep the photo examples coming ;)
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Haha. Settle down.
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http://www.mensfitness.co.uk/exercise/ (http://www.mensfitness.co.uk/exercise/)
:-*
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(http://mm2morph.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/side_plank_5800_7.jpg)
wow, that guy has like the perfect body...
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mine is better
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Time to hit the gym lol
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hahaha
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Im back to kinesiotaping my shoulder to hold it up
I put on medical tape first and then kinesiotape on top of that because it doesn't want to stick
Noticed after I strengthen my shoulder isn't as winged but during the day after work it's winging! So hope this helps. Computers are terrible for your shoulders
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Ryan.....have you noticed any improvement in your forward head posture since the surgery?
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Im back to kinesiotaping my shoulder to hold it up
I put on medical tape first and then kinesiotape on top of that because it doesn't want to stick
Noticed after I strengthen my shoulder isn't as winged but during the day after work it's winging! So hope this helps. Computers are terrible for your shoulders
Yeah, I'm hoping to change careers in the next few years and getting away from the desk is tantamount.
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Ryan.....have you noticed any improvement in your forward head posture since the surgery?
I can't really tell.
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Yeah, I'm hoping to change careers in the next few years and getting away from the desk is tantamount.
What are your plans? I'm looking to make a career change as well once things are all healed up.
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when i first started working at my job one of the ladies there approached my boss and said i was "walking around in the halls too much"
luckily that was dropped, people are not designed to sit in front of computers for hours on end. breaks are necessary
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What are your plans? I'm looking to make a career change as well once things are all healed up.
Still trying to figure it out. Ideally I'd turn a hobby into a career but I'm not good enough at any of mine to do that yet. Not really narrowed down yet but I'm working on it haha. I want to take the next few years and really hone my skills before I take the leap but I have a lot of work to do.
How about yourself? I think I remember you said you were thinking of moving to Asia for a bit, is that still happening?
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why do you all want a career change?
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Awful
Yeah id much rather risk people s**tting on themselves
Walking really helps with circulation...oxygen too. When I'm sitting like that I feel like i dont breathe well Which makes me think it's not my airway size.
Right guys? If my airway was awful wouldnt i feel awful all the time and not get relief walking or lying down?
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scapular winging (Dr Nath movements 1 & 2).avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGbjeccVJVU#)
great video showing scap winging
ususally youtube just shows like extreme examples
symptoms would be (at leas they are for me) feeing like your whole arm is dead and just hanging off the front of your body. kind of hard to explain.
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why do you all want a career change?
dude, you are too funny! Ahh....I remember the days of youth and optimism.... The answer to your question though is we're all nearing middle age and are disappointed in our lives... Do you think anyone who is happy spends this much time on a f**king jawsurgery forum!? I laugh, but my smile is only skin deep.....as they say...
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i have no idea where to post this but it's cool, i didnt know there was an actual name for it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolff%27s_law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolff%27s_law)
Astronauts who spend a long time in space will often return to Earth with weaker bones, since gravity has been greatly diminished and therefore has exerted little force on their bodies.
i never thought of that but it makes perfect sense
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dude, you are too funny! Ahh....I remember the days of youth and optimism.... The answer to your question though is we're all nearing middle age and are disappointed in our lives... Do you think anyone who is happy spends this much time on a f**king jawsurgery forum!? I laugh, but my smile is only skin deep.....as they say...
Lol. The problem is exactly the opposite. you where all hype on ronald raegan, the 80's, coke, the american dream and all that s**t.
i was born in 91:year of the crisis. Graduated from school in 2007: year of the greatest crisis since 29.
I'm the soon of crisis and despair.
I KNOW, i am already aware and therefore ready to "a heart that's full of like a landfill, a job that slowly kills you, bruised that won't heal. You look so tired unhappy, briiing down the government, they don't...they don't speak for us! I'll take, a quite life, a handfill of carbon monoxide...Nooo alarms and noo surpriseeees noooo alarms and nooo surprises please."
I know what im going to and i know it's not my dreams. It's just a job, i'd be lucky to have one and i hope ill have enough to live without worries.
Btw, you all knew i am the new De rossi (footballically speaking). Well, this is a tragic day for me and for football: I need surgery on my ankle. How lucky am i?
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here's a link to pdf format of clair davies trigger point (self-care) therapy workbook. its awesome
http://uploaded.net/file/077dj776 (http://uploaded.net/file/077dj776)
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Neck (Scalene) Stretch - Natalie Weintraub, LMT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nBdFoj0pug#ws)
good stretch for mouth-breathers and/or computer users
if these muscles get too tight you have to go on disability, srsly
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thats not good..unless you're overstretching, then it makes sense, your brachial plexus is under there
try this gently and let me know if you feel anything
if you get tingling then stop, it should feel a slight pull but if you ever get tingling anywhere or a deep ache then definitely stop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiU1PCxuFyU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiU1PCxuFyU)
also with the stretch i posted before this, i know im overdoing it if i feel it in my armspits, its like a deep nervy pull. not good. im really bad at stretching, always overdo it
Make sure any time you stretch your neck your shoulder is in a good position too..not collapsed
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(http://studentweb.usq.edu.au/home/D1014962/site/images/Trigger3.jpg)
that's good for upper trap. i used to always get a trigger point there
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my bicep tendons are effed up >:( >:( >:(
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yup all my tendons around there are messed up
and i know first hand that if theres excess synovial fluid, it can make your hands tingle. i guess just the extra pressure. people dont seem to believe or talk about that much.
im trying to do that whole cross friction "release" thing on them
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this is what hurts for me
this movement..
(http://www.physioadvisor.com.au/assets/256/images/12974256(300x300).jpg)
good diagram
(http://www.fixingyou.net/includes/templates/apple_zen/images/pronation_supination_diagram.jpg)
and my biceps tendon because it runs up to the front of you shoulder blaah
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http://www.youtube.com/user/nabilebraheim (http://www.youtube.com/user/nabilebraheim)
awesome anatomy videos
really thorough
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Muscle Anatomy Of The Trunk - Everything You Need To Know - Dr. Nabil Ebraheim (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBFLusAiN6U#)
is good
my lats are too strong and weak lower traps
c7 is the big bone bump at the base of your neck..then t1..t2 etc
and i think my erector spinae are just way overactive
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These neck jaw books make a big deal about leg length discrepancy causing pain in your head..jaw
I have this. Hope orthotics help
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this is from my headache book, its cool
"the concept of qi is not easily translatable into w'ern medical terminology. it is thought that qi is energy that flows through 14 main meridians and connecting vessels that go to all parts of the body. qi moves the blood and lymph fluids. when the flow of qi is stopped (stagnation), pain and disease result. based on today's study of body processes, some think that qi refers to the biochemical processes in living creatures-- the combination of electrical impulses, neurotransmitters, hormones, bodily fluids, and cellular metabolism that allow us to be living, breathing creatures. as you read in ch 1, trigger points form when your fluids aren't moving very well, cellular metabolism isn't working properly, and neurotransmitters aren't operating normally, which supports this particular concept of qi, and the idea of pain resulting from qi stagnation"
describes me so well, especially my magnesium deficiency
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Man this is frustrating, lately I've found myself waking up in the middle of the night struggling for full breaths. Allergy season is hell, I can feel the strain in my neck from posturing severely forward while sleeping.
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Are you taking anything for your allergies?
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OTC drugs only, I should probably look to a more permanent solution
hypertrophied turbinates and a deviated nasal septum aren't helping :P
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Maybe you should look into the in office turbinate reduction.
From what I hear it is very conservative, takes less than 10 minutes. They use radio frequency sometimes and just a local anesthetic in nose.
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Maybe you should look into the in office turbinate reduction.
From what I hear it is very conservative, takes less than 10 minutes. They use radio frequency sometimes and just a local anesthetic in nose.
That's what my ENT suggested. I have a bunch of things that may be causing the nasal blockage and don't know which to start with (allergies, retruded jaws, turbinates, deviated septum). Even had enlarged adenoids and tonsils but they were removed years ago
I'm going for a sleep study sometime this summer so hopefully I'll know more then
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To those (guys) that have forward head posture, do you find your adam's apple juts out when trying to correct the forward head posture? I have a big adam's apple, forward head posture, and small jaw. It feels like when I pull my head back and stand up straight my adam's apple sticks out almost as far as my jaw.
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Yes I have noticed that on guys also. For those who have had surgery does that improve?
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I'd be careful trying to manually correct it. I did that on Friday to see how I looked (also put my head in the frankfurt position which might've done it) and my spine was sore all yesterday
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the only way to correct forward head posture (or any bad posture) is to strengthen your neck and shoulder muscles. virtually everyone with forward head posture has rounded shoulders.
just sitting up straight isnt going to help, i mean it is a good habit but youll just get short and most likely you arent even sitting up correctly - just bending your spin back. that's just as bad as slouching.
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Interesting subject! A few months ago I was seeing a PT because of the pain in my neck from leaning my head and shoulders too far forward- turns out the problem is not just there but I have imbalances from my lower spine to my neck. The therapist mentioned it is probably a combination of poor posture during daily activities in conjunction with energy/mood/personality. Manual correction is painful, and I was given exercises to do. Strengthening the muscles in your neck and upper shoulders will help, but if your alignment is a complete mess you need to look at the bigger picture not just one area.
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I'm looking forward to entirely correct my posture post surgery
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the only way to correct forward head posture (or any bad posture) is to strengthen your neck and shoulder muscles. virtually everyone with forward head posture has rounded shoulders.
just sitting up straight isnt going to help, i mean it is a good habit but youll just get short and most likely you arent even sitting up correctly - just bending your spin back. that's just as bad as slouching.
I lift weights, have for years and I'm pretty strong for my body weight. I still have that forward head posture though, it just seems like the natural resting position, and to make everything in line feels unnatural for me.
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I lift weights, have for years and I'm pretty strong for my body weight. I still have that forward head posture though, it just seems like the natural resting position, and to make everything in line feels unnatural for me.
same here
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I lift weights, have for years and I'm pretty strong for my body weight. I still have that forward head posture though, it just seems like the natural resting position, and to make everything in line feels unnatural for me.
do you exercise your shoulders/arms/back specifically?
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do you exercise your shoulders/arms/back specifically?
Yes, until recently I haven't paid too much attention to my posture during those exercises. I mean I pay enough attention that I don't pull/hurt something, but no so much to my shoulder posture. I wonder if deadlifts would help with this.
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I did a little bit a few years ago, I'm pretty flexible. I don't know if it really helped me, I guess most of it is probably habit and structural. I just get this weird feeling in my throat when position my head back and my adam's apple juts out. Kinda feels like having a lump in your throat.
weird. i can stand up straight when i want to, no feel in my throat. maybe tilting your head back? just need to strengthen my lower/upper back and shoulders.
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Gonna bump this. My physical therapsit showed me how my posture should be, but it gives me a double chin. I defiantly think opening the airways can be a good start to fixing forward head posture. The correct way to usually fix it is too stretch the chest muscles, do y, t, w, l exercises and practice chin tucks. Also when doing chin tucks against a wall with everything against the wall except your but and legs, push your tongue into the roof of your mouth and you should feel your front neck muscles working. Theyre like strap muscles and help pull your chin down. http://b-reddy.org/2011/08/04/3-common-tight-muscles/ (http://b-reddy.org/2011/08/04/3-common-tight-muscles/) the first exercise on that site defiantly helped and before doing that I usually roll a tennis ball along my trapezius muscle and then do a lat stretch on a foam roller. A lot of the times people with forward head posture also have an anterior pelvic tilt, so that need to be fixed too. I have some stretches and exercises to help that too.
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nrelax11,
I really hope what you are doing helps, and I certainly think it's worth a try. Also, I think working with a physical therapist is always a good learning experience. I'm just throwing this out there because I hate to see people not getting what they need out of physical therapy.
Do you feel confident you were given the correct diagnosis? Did you have a proper workup before seeing your physical therapist? Did your physical therapist receive and look through your workup before starting you on a program? Are they looking at the body as a whole, or only in isolation? Are they receptive to your feedback? Are they actually putting their hands on you to feel what is happening with your body (the answer should be YES)?
Best of luck! (You obviously don't need to answer any of that, it's just a good checklist.)
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(http://i61.tinypic.com/vywoaw.jpg) this is the sitting hip/buttock stretch. I felt it more that lying down. Lightly push down on your knee and slowly lower down too the opposite knee untill you feel a stretch
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2hd60l5.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2crq445.jpg)exercises
Also perform stationery lunges. Your do different variations, but you want to work your glutes because they rotate your hip back
(http://i58.tinypic.com/jqguf6.jpg) (stretches)
Okayy, what fixed my anterior pelvic tilt ( well started fixing it and then i overstretched a nerve a little :/) was a combo of foam rolling, stretching and then exercising with bands and progressing up to weights. I foam rolled my glutes, quads, hamstrings, inner thighs, and calves. My most tender area was IT band. You should foam roll your TFL (Tensor fasciae latae ) first before foam rolling the IT band. Some People's say not to foam roll it but it helped me a lot doing so. My quads were pretty tender to foam roll at first too, so focus on that area.
After foam rolling perform stretches. 1. Lying hamstring stretch 2. Hip flexor stretch 3. Hip/buttock stretch 4. Inner thigh stretch/groin 4. And I added an TFL stretch that I can add a link too
Oops, and dont forget to work your core and activate your deep core muscles. Make sure your core exercises dont involve bending your neck and while doing them, make sure that deep core is activated.
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nrelax11,
I really hope what you are doing helps, and I certainly think it's worth a try. Also, I think working with a physical therapist is always a good learning experience. I'm just throwing this out there because I hate to see people not getting what they need out of physical therapy.
Do you feel confident you were given the correct diagnosis? Did you have a proper workup before seeing your physical therapist? Did your physical therapist receive and look through your workup before starting you on a program? Are they looking at the body as a whole, or only in isolation? Are they receptive to your feedback? Are they actually putting their hands on you to feel what is happening with your body (the answer should be YES)?
Best of luck! (You obviously don't need to answer any of that, it's just a good checklist.)
My physical therapist basically tested out my flexibility/ range of motion in my hips and arms/rotator cuff muscles. I had one sided pain in my left glute and lower left back. Its obviously best to go see someone and if you have other back problems/pains, please defiantly see a doctor. I basically have really tight hip and rotator cuff muscles. I kept working out with my tight muscles and now I have chronic neck and hip pain. Ive already got of taste of being pain free before I overstretched my nerve, so I know I can fix my postural issues
I didnt answer all the questions lol. I had been seen by multiple physical therapist before my past one and she looked up all my history and xrays and mri. What ive learned though is that you have to stick with a program. Ive had this hip pain for 3 years and my neck pain now for almost a year. Its not going to go away overnight. My problem in the past was not sticking with it. Lol, I recieved these stretches and excercises before, but was lazy and didnt do them. I could be pain free right now if I just stuck with it.
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So for forward head posture: pec stretches, y, t, w, ls, and chin tucks. Ive noticed that just loosening up my chest helps keep my neck upright. The ytwls will help stregthen your lower trapezius muscles which are usually neglected and weak.
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Gonna bump this. My physical therapsit showed me how my posture should be, but it gives me a double chin. I defiantly think opening the airways can be a good start to fixing forward head posture. The correct way to usually fix it is too stretch the chest muscles, do y, t, w, l exercises and practice chin tucks. Also when doing chin tucks against a wall with everything against the wall except your but and legs, push your tongue into the roof of your mouth and you should feel your front neck muscles working. Theyre like strap muscles and help pull your chin down. http://b-reddy.org/2011/08/04/3-common-tight-muscles/ (http://b-reddy.org/2011/08/04/3-common-tight-muscles/) the first exercise on that site defiantly helped and before doing that I usually roll a tennis ball along my trapezius muscle and then do a lat stretch on a foam roller. A lot of the times people with forward head posture also have an anterior pelvic tilt, so that need to be fixed too. I have some stretches and exercises to help that too.
If you are not using one of these (black)
http://www.rumbleroller.com/foam-rollers.html (http://www.rumbleroller.com/foam-rollers.html)
then you are not rolling.
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Damn, looks like a weapon lol. Actually looks like it would work really well getting knots out
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Damn, looks like a weapon lol. Actually looks like it would work really well getting knots out
It's great, but you have to keep using it. Get the firm version.
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It's great, but you have to keep using it. Get the firm version.
Thanks, I'll defiantly look into it. Foam rolling is awesome and is very useful when it comes to loosening up tight muscles. Would you recommend the long or short one?
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Thanksit, I'll defiantly look into it. Foam rolling is awesome and is very useful when it comes to loosening up tight muscles. Would you recommend the long or short one?
I've bought both, thinking I'd use the short one on trips, but when I did go, it stayed in my suitcase. So I've only used the long version. Some say the short version allows to really get at the back muscles. I'm sceptical. I'd get the long version, its also much bigger in diameter.
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K, thanks again :) Theres a store near me that carries them, so I'll go check it out today. Oh, one last thing. How much did you pay for yours. Im an amazon prime member, so I get almost $30 off the small and large version.
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I definitely agree of getting a foam roller. I would also get an exercise/yoga mat and flexible rubber band tubing for varying tension rows.
I think we could all benefit from cable rows, back extension exercises, and chest wall stretches. One should also focus on the abdominal muscles, as strengthening them will help to correct an anterior pelvic tilt.
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K, thanks again :) Theres a store near me that carries them, so I'll go check it out today. Oh, one last thing. How much did you pay for yours. Im an amazon prime member, so I get almost $30 off the small and large version.
I don't remember. But definitely more than you'll ever pay. Everything costs more in Australia, even when the AUD was worth more than the USD (when I bought mine). If you're a sucker for punishment, you might want to try one of these as well.
http://www.ironedge.com.au/store/posture-curve.html (http://www.ironedge.com.au/store/posture-curve.html)
http://www.amazon.com/The-Stick-Posture-Curve-Massager/dp/B0013O788O/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top (http://www.amazon.com/The-Stick-Posture-Curve-Massager/dp/B0013O788O/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top)
TBH, I'm not sure about physio. According to the SAID principle, your body adapts to the demands imposed on it. If you all you do is run, you adapt to running. And if all of a sudden you decide to ride a bike or swim, you will hurt like hell, and vice versa. So if you do a crapload of foam rolling and and trigger therapy, eventually you stop feeling discomfort when doing it. But it doesn't mean your muscles will not get knotted up when doing other activities.
I did a crapload of foam rolling last year, to the point that it didn't hurt at all to roll on that firm rumble roller. But my muscles were still stiff. I went to see a physio who does dry needling. It felt really great initially, but after a few sessions it stopped working. The muscles wouldn't even twitch when the needles were stuck in them. And if you look at the research, dry needling is unproven.
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Well foam rolling only goes so far. If you have a structural problem like myself, you need exercise too. I mean the stretching and foam rolling really helped my anterior pelvic tilt, but once I added resistance band exercises, I saw a huge improvement.
My forward head posture was improved mostly from stretching and exercising. I foam rolled my chest and lower/mid traps, but I dont know how much it helped. Mostly rolling a tennis ball along my shoulder blade helped get knots out.
I want to get someones opinion on this because no one has ever really agreed if this is why my posture started getting bad. I use to work at home depot and every shift I wore a weight lifting super tight for almost my whole shift (took it off during breaks/lunch) I did that for a few months working full time most of the time. I quit my job and then a week later I start getting an ache in my lower back. Have had hip/low back achiness for three years now, but only my left side. My theory is that my body got dependant on the belt and my core was taken out of the picture and my back muscles became tight. Fast forward past years of working out with my messed up hip, and I continued making my posture worse leading to my forward head problem and neck pain.
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Hey nrelax11,
Have you had an MRI of your hip, and potentially low back? You mentioned your PT looked at your x-rays and MRI, but I wasn't sure if that was for your neck or your left hip region. Assuming you've had a picture and everything looked OK (you need an MRI, not just an x-ray), have you been assessed for dysfunctional glutes? Also, have you tried incorporating some extension exercises into what you are already doing? They are not magic, but can certainly provide some people with a little relief.
Pain is generally coming from somewhere, but sometimes it's almost impossible to figure out the source. With everything so connected, it can make things complicated.
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Hey sorry I forgot to mention that, but yeah I had an mri. They found minor arthritis in my L5-S1, but said it shouldnt cause any pain. I've got myself pain free when I was doing all the stretches and exercises I was given..im just back in pain now because I overstretched my nerve in my right thigh so I had to take time off everything. So I know I can fix my issue. Im just in a waiting game now.
But yea, my glutes are pretty weak though and my exercises were definitely helping. I always thought my right glute was just bigger, but what I've come to learn is that tight muscles appear to be larger. Like I thought my right side of my neck was bigger, but turned out it was very tight and when I stretched it, it returned to the same size as my left. Same as my right glute. When I finally stretched out my right hip and glute, it because smaller and looser. For a while I was just stretching my bad side and wondered why nothing was happing. Not untill I got my right side loose did my painful left side become, well, less painful. Its crazy how imbalanced things can get and how one side can greatly affect the other.
It sucks though, since I cant stretch my right hip or hip flexor right now, I cant relieve my pain and my anterior tilt is real s**tty. Im just waiting another two weeks and my nerve should be healed by then. Its almost been two months. I wanted to sort all this crap out before my surgery, but it looks like I wont. I just fear im gonna go crazy after my surgery lol. Having all my body issues on top of recovering from surgery.
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I would like to add a few more things that have really improved my posture lately and has got rid of most of my chronic pain.
First id like to address the psoas muscle. This muscle is a major contributor to anterior pelvic tilt and lot of time is tight and knotted up. I found a good self massage on youtube from a guy who does torque training. I basically do his massage and then do a psoas stretch. The other muscle is the quadtratus lumborum, which attaches from your 12th rib onto the crest of your pelvis. This was also tight on me and I just googled some stetches and found a good one. You can basically use those big exercises balls and do a side bend stretch on it, amd that will stretch out the QL.
Stomach vacuums! Amazing exercise to work your transverse abdominis which will help counteract the stretching of the your tight hip flexor muscles.
Ive also incorporated some body Weight hamstring exercises..I got the exercise on youtube from some dudes channel called athlete x (maybe athlean x) or some s**t. Just search body weight hamstring exercises. Usually with anterior pelvic tilt, your hamstrings are going to be elongated and weak.
If you youtube kevin Yates- how to fix anterior pelvic tilt part 4, he has some good exercises and his part 3 I think taught me that when you squat, you should feel it mostly im your glutes, whereas I was really feeling it a lot in my quads. So I stretched and foam rolled my quads/hip flexors before doing body weight squates and it helped a lot.
For upper back and neck pain, the only thing I really added was thoracic extensions on a foam roller. This really helped give more more mobility in my t spine and has helped my neck pain.
What really helped me the most is really working on strenghtening my deep core. Once thats stronger, you can properly do all the exercises because your core is stabalized.
This isnt necessary, but I also have an inversion table. I use to have a teeter hangup, but sold it and just recently got an $87 inversion table on amazon that does the same thing but waay cheaper.
Thats about it, ive been working my ass off to fix my posture and ive finally found the solution for myself. Always consult with a doctor first before performing any of these exercises if you are experiencing pain. Lol, my dad said I should become a physical therapist because I research daily on bodily functions and I love the human anatomy and helping people. Maybe after becoming a radiology tech I'll look into going back to school. Only if my significant other makes enough money to support that.
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People with FHP, do you guys have any issues sitting on a chair with no back support (eg: bar, picnic table etc). I've been doing back extensions, rows etc for a couple months and swear I cannot sit unless my back is supported. I can't keep my back straight, I would otherwise just hunch over to a ridiculous degree to get somewhat comfortable, which looks plain embarrassing. Anyone else with this problem?.
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Yea I have trouble:/ it sucks. Right now I have like a chronically tight levator scapulae muscle, so even sitting at a kitchen table is kind of uuncomfortable. Have you had your shoulder blades looked at? Make sure theyre functioning right.
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I saw a physio once and he was useless. I have a friend who is one and I'll be asking for her opinion. Do you think there is any role for spine X-rays to assess degrees of kyphosis and lordosis. I assume these can be roughly estimated by an experienced physio..... All I know is that I'm starting to feel like an old man in a young body. I also deal with some pain issues related to my extremely pronated feet. I guess some have it a lot better but many have it a lot worse...
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I dont know if an xray would be necessary because they can usually asses it by measurements and touch. I mean you can usually just look from a side view and see hyper lordosis or kyphosis. Try and get a second opinion if you can like you said through your friend. Im actually seeing a physio soon, but hes suppose to be extremely good and has amazing reviews. Ive seen three physical therapist and have fixed my problems a couple times to only have something else go wrong and being back to square one. I feel like an old man and should not have all the pain issues at my young age. You probably have a lot of issues like myself, but I know I caused a lot ofnmy problems through incorrect weight lifting. Which probably gave me bad posture and then I continued working out with horrible posture.
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I used to have much better, straighter posture with foot orthotics (flat feet). Too bad my feet could not bear them.
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I read an article recently about the effect toes have on posture, specifically a longer second toe...apparently this this can cause all kind of f**kery with weight bearing, tilting the pelvis and ultimately contributing to the dreaded forward head posture.
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Yea the feet and calves play a big role in posture. For instance, very tight calves shift the weight throughtput your whole body, usually causing a anterior pelvic tilt.
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I read an article recently about the effect toes have on posture, specifically a longer second toe...apparently this this can cause all kind of f**kery with weight bearing, tilting the pelvis and ultimately contributing to the dreaded forward head posture.
Supposedly Morton's toe is correlated with athletic ability. Federer has it.
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My body is so f'd I don't think a physio would know where to start. It's to the point I have a hard time even sitting in a chair! My feet are so overpronated my ankles look broken. This is depressing.
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My body is so f'd I don't think a physio would know where to start. It's to the point I have a hard time even sitting in a chair! My feet are so overpronated my ankles look broken. This is depressing.
Trust me, I know how you feel :/ My body is jacked up..I have so many damn issues going on at once. You just need to keep looking for someone who can help you. I use to be pretty obsessed with having a really good looking body, but now, I just want a f**king normal, pain free functioning body. And now I know how to correctly workout so I dont get this issue again. Im seeing a physio on the 16th. My surgery is on the 28th. This guy and his partner are suppose to be good, so I'll see what he can do in that short period of time. I just want my neck pain to go away, which it has before, but now one of my neck muscle (guessing levator scapulae) is tight as f**k and killing me. Ive got rid of the pain in one day before doing certain things, but they're not working anymore. I think my scapula is just messed up and I have s**tty ass thoracic mobility. We can get rid of pain!! I know it!! Try and stay positive
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PP,
If you benefited from orthotics (foot), but had comfort issues with them I would keep looking. I've worn seemingly every generic and custom orthotic known to man, and even with 'perfect' feet it took me some trial and error to find the right fit. Turns out feet are kind of like mouths/jaws, even a mm can make a difference.
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Supposedly Morton's toe is correlated with athletic ability. Federer has it.
All the best people do ;)
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PP,
If you benefited from orthotics (foot), but had comfort issues with them I would keep looking. I've worn seemingly every generic and custom orthotic known to man, and even with 'perfect' feet it took me some trial and error to find the right fit. Turns out feet are kind of like mouths/jaws, even a mm can make a difference.
Those orthotics were the hard custom type. Yesterday I got custom soft ones measured up for me. Will be picking them up in 2 weeks.
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Maybe I should try out some custom orthodics :) my shoes are horribly thin at the sole but they're so worn in and comfy
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My body is so f'd I don't think a physio would know where to start. It's to the point I have a hard time even sitting in a chair! My feet are so overpronated my ankles look broken. This is depressing.
I know how you feel, if I straighten my posture up and move my head back my adam's apple bulges out and I get this lump in the back of my throat feeling.
It's like the curvature of my upper spine bends forward more where my Addams apple is, makes me wonder if it had something to do with wearing headgear while growing up or if it was just 2 decades of poor posture.
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Okayy, if anyone wants to fix there posture, go to Brentbrookbush.com This dude has the answer for upper body dysfunction, lumbopelvic hip complex disorder, SI joint dysfunction, lower leg dysfunction and in the future will do an article on cervical posture which is mostly related to problems with your shoulder blades and then he'll do one on feet issues. I just got my certificate for personal training and eventual plan on opening my own place to fix peoples f**ked up postures. Theres this trainer I saw who charges 120 bucks a session and i know more than him. So if he can do that, then I can for surely do it. I even knew things a physical therapists assistants didnt even know lol. And the physical therapist was impressed. All because of this guy. The detail he goes into on these dysfunctions is amazing and makes it so f**king easy. All your doing is going to a joint 1. Finding out what muscles cross that joint and what there functions are 2. Which muscles are tight and which ones are lengthened ( opposing muscles) 3. Release and stretch the tight muscles, strengthen the lengthened ones. Ex. Anterior pelvic tilt. Tight muscles: latisimus dorsi illiopsoas, TFl, glute minimus, anterior adductors, rectus femoris, vastus lateralis, and bicep femoris ( which should only be releases and or active stretched) erector spenae. Lenghtened muscles: glute max and min, transverse abdominis, medial hamstrings. Usually the main issue that causes a lot of issues in the body is the lack of dorsiflexion which causes a chain reaction of issues. Dorsiflexion is the ability to translate the knee over the foot. Should have like 20-30 degrees of dorsiflexion at the ankle. I fixed my upper body posture because of him. All his articles and s**t are free still I think but he charges for viewing aome things now, so you have to become a member. He just started charging this year which kind of blows. But he has one article that goes over every single dysfuction and how to fix it. Like what muscles need to strengthened ans what needs to be stretched. Sorry about the bad paragraph structure lol
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I read an article recently about the effect ave on posture, specifically a longer second toe...apparently this this can cause all kind of f**kery with weight bearing, tilting the pelvis and ultimately contributing to the dreaded forward head posture.
Correct, more so to do with the lack of dorsiflexion like I stated and overly pronated feet. This can start a chain reaction on the rest of your body. When you sprain your ankle, your suppose to go see a physical therapist and a mabual therpist to set it back to the right place. I sprained the same ankle twice and my dorsiflexion sucks on that foot, so ive been doing distraction with a monster band and then stretching my calves and working my posterior and anterior tibialis. Which both control dorsiflexion and inversion of the foot
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Has anyone successfully fixed their neck posture pre-surgery?
I am doing PT now but I have a feeling the neck forward posture is an involuntary reflex, similar to how patients with ptosis also adopt a head forward and tilted up posture to compensate for visual obstruction.
personal case in point - I have a dominant right eye and a lazy left eye. Years of PT for pain was literally useless until a vision therapist pointed out my movement problems, was literally moving, bending and leading my body from the right side all the time. I am hypermobile too.
Can't even find a comfortable, consistent neutral at the moment, which concerns me regarding my ceph planning in regards to head tilt. Is this something even to worry about?
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If you are jotting your jaw Forward and Counter tilting your head back, in order to breath better, or for cosmetic reasons, this will Impact your posture. a doctor i saw said that he noticed postural improvements in patients post agressive bimax. pecker (spelling? the upenn doc from philly) also mentions improved posture for bimax treated apnea patients, but sadly does not go into it much.
i think for us the question is two fold
pre surgery
1 - does our current head tilting lead to a less ideal surgery plan, as your natural horizontal will Change post surgery post improved posture. ie, your doctor may not lengthen your jaw as much as needed because you are camuflaging the true aestetic deficit somewhat (this has happenend to me with 3 very famous docs that are often referenced on this Forum)
post surgery
2 - how can we maximise postural improvement, and incorporate it into the relerning Phase.
quesion to People that have had bimax - is it hard to swallow at first?
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wheat
on YouTube search Feldenkrais and Fitness, and then search for the Video on how to fix eyesight, this worked for me