jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: joa84 on October 02, 2013, 05:50:42 PM
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Hello everybody
This doctor claims that bimaxillary rotation advancment surgery was developed by him and is only available at his clinic in Switzerland. I thought double jaw rotation+advancement was one of many other procedures all maxillofacial surgeons perform. Anyone here who's more informed than me care to explain if it's the same thing? Here's the doctor's website. http://www.schlafapnoe.com/en/behandlungsarten.html (http://www.schlafapnoe.com/en/behandlungsarten.html) and here http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/schnarchen.html (http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/schnarchen.html) Thanks!
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You're having surgery with Sailer?! ???
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^ I haven't decided yet. He told me I have narrow oropharyngeal airways caused by the retropositioning of the upper and lower jaw and tongue.
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Thanks for the welcome but what's wrong with Sailer? :-\
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Hello everybody
This doctor claims that bimaxillary rotation advancment surgery was developed by him and is only available at his clinic in Switzerland. I thought double jaw rotation+advancement was one of many other procedures all maxillofacial surgeons perform. Anyone here who's more informed than me care to explain if it's the same thing? Here's the doctor's website. http://www.schlafapnoe.com/en/behandlungsarten.html (http://www.schlafapnoe.com/en/behandlungsarten.html) and here http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/schnarchen.html (http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/schnarchen.html) Thanks!
yeah it's the same thing. bimax just means both jaws and rotation means that they rotate the jaws a bit to make them less steep. it's his marketing bulls**t to say that he "invented" the procedure. He didn't invent s**t. I'm sure his jaw surgery results are fine/good. IN fact, the one thing you won't have to worry about is that you'll look underdone. Only thing I'd be cautious about is all the implant work he does. Not sure how good all that lyocartilege for cheekbones etc.. turns out. The women esp. end up looking like trannys. Also his rhino's don't look good at all --they mostly have saddlenose deformities.
I think we criticize sailer a bit too much on this site due to his personality and his website, but the actual results of his jaw work look really solid. I'd go with him over mommaerts for just pure jaw surgery.
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yeah it's the same thing. bimax just means both jaws and rotation means that they rotate the jaws a bit to make them less steep. it's his marketing bulls**t to say that he "invented" the procedure. He didn't invent s**t. I'm sure his jaw surgery results are fine/good. IN fact, the one thing you won't have to worry about is that you'll look underdone. Only thing I'd be cautious about is all the implant work he does. Not sure how good all that lyocartilege for cheekbones etc.. turns out. The women esp. end up looking like trannys. Also his rhino's don't look good at all --they mostly have saddlenose deformities.
I think we criticize sailer a bit too much on this site due to his personality and his website, but the actual results of his jaw work look really solid. I'd go with him over mommaerts for just pure jaw surgery.
(imo) Albino Triaca is way better than Sailer
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Ive been to Sailer and two other doctors -I haven't heard of Albino maybe I should see him. I went to Sailer complaining about my breathing difficulty. I also have lip incompetence and excessive vertical growth which makes my smile gummy. I had a chin implant a year ago to fix my recessed chin and it helped lessen the lip incompetence gap a little.
Sailer thinks a bimaxillary advancement/rotation will fix my breathing problems and greatly improve the way I look since he will move my jaw forward which according to him is the common factor in beautiful faces -he pointed at photos of Cleopatra, Angelina Jolie and Jude Law on the wall of his clinic while explaining his idea of beauty which I agree with and have always known and noticed in Celebes and models since I was a teen.. I think I was impressed by Sailer because of the before and after photos I saw at his office. He also seemed to know what he's talking about. One more thing i liked about him is how he gave so much importance to the aesthetic side of the surgery unlike other surgeons I've been to who didn't care that much about it. Ofcourse I'd love to fix my breathing issues PLUS improve my smile and jaw line. But I grew suspicious of him when I read his website where he claims that he developed the advancement/rotation procedure and that it's only available at his clinic...
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He showed you a photo of Cleopatra? Hmmm...interesting. I would like to see that. He must have invented some time travel devise apart from inventing CCW.
I guess the acceptability of his results vary according to gender. I posted before here about him saying I admire that he takes a more radical approach to transforming people's faces. But that's where my admiration stops.
Watch this presentation if you have some time to waste (youtube link below). If you're a man and not freaked out by what you see at 6:50 then good luck with your surgery. I guess you'll be happy with the outcome. For me, that is enough to dissuade me to go even close to him, let alone let him operate on me.
By the way, someone made this remark about him: if his approach works, and he has unlocked the secret of lasting beauty for everyone as he claims he does, then why on earth does he look the way he does himself?
Beauty & Success with the Help of a Reverse Facelift (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K62MdksqAys#ws)
No further comment required.
And lol at him being better than Mommaerts for jaw surgeries. I have had consults with serious surgeons from around the world. When I mention Mommaerts, they immediately know who I am talking about based on his extensive clinical and academic work. When I dare to mention Sailer, they say "I've never heard that name before". One of them told me that he attends all major conferences and symposiums in the field and has never in his life come across this man.
You don't have to take anything I say for serious - just a point of view before you make that major commitment that will cost you a fortune. I heard his price range is outrageous.
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I expect that there would be different opinions. For me, that is an UNACCEPTABLY feminized male face.
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He could've gone to any other surgeon and had a better result
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You have to take into consideration that he is plastered with makeup on the after, but yes I can understand you thinking the procedures may have taken some masculinity away from him.
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He could've gone to any other surgeon and had a better result
I agree. ANY other.
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I agree. ANY other.
that's good to know, yeah i was at first quite duped by how dramaticlky sailer changed people but then i realized hie's a bit of a dr. frankenstein.
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It's true, he's a Dr Frankenstein but madly driven by profit. Anyway, if you could only find a surgeon who shares his willingness to experiment but who will also have a good eye for aesthetics as well as talent and expertise, then you may be onto something. As for his aesthetic standards, look at his male rhinoplasties - the guy in the video and the guy on his web site - feminine, over-reduced, scooped, ugly noses that seriously impede any man's chance to look good. But to be fair to him, there are so many other max fax surgeons who do the same fundamental mistake.
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It's true, he's a Dr Frankenstein but madly driven by profit.
You're absolutely right. You'd be shocked if I told you how much he wanted for this surgery! Aside from that don't you think I need an impaction to fix my gummy smile? Or is a CCW enough?
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You're absolutely right. You'd be shocked if I told you how much he wanted for this surgery! Aside from that don't you think I need an impaction to fix my gummy smile? Or is a CCW enough?
can we ask you what procedures he was offering? just the surgery or other things too: i.e. lyocartilge augmentation (some bone susbtitute he uses and other stuff...) or just the two jaws and genio?
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Only jaws and genio. Does the CCW take care of the gummy smile or is an impaction necessary?
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Only jaws and genio. Does the CCW take care of the gummy smile or is an impaction necessary?
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don't know.
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What the f is lyocartilage anyway? Didn't someone say it was from cadavers?
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What the f is lyocartilage anyway? Didn't someone say it was from cadavers?
yeah it's sterilized freeze tried bone --i guess it integrates with your own blood vessels but doesn't turn exactly into lving bone --but sailer isn't the only one to use it, they all use it to fill in gaps and s**t, either cadaver bone, or ha past with bone grafts etc. etc. you'ld be surprised, i've heard tons of cases where they never even told the patient they were putting all this dead guy's bone in him....they just assume you're okay with it, i could imagine tons of people not being! lol....
anyway, we're 70 years away from being able to synethtically replicate our own bone tissue from small samples. then we can shape our faces any way we want and probably even create new youthful skin!!! anyone will look as beautiful as they want. We'll all look like Kim Kardashian and Kanye West. What a glorious world it will be!
edit: this post was facetious for those that didn't get it....
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I think a lot of Sailor's jaw surgeries come out really good actually. I think his ante face theory is pretty solid. I don't like his plastic surgery work though for the most part. His nose jobs tend to be way overdone as do his cheek implants and lip injections.
This is a really good result I think for jaw surgery.
(http://www.schlafapnoe.com/media/content/behandlungsarten/4t.jpg)(http://www.schlafapnoe.com/media/content/behandlungsarten/5t.jpg)
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I think a lot of Sailor's jaw surgeries come out really good actually. I think his ante face theory is pretty solid. I don't like his plastic surgery work though for the most part. His nose jobs tend to be way overdone as do his cheek implants and lip injections.
This is a really good result I think for jaw surgery.
(http://www.schlafapnoe.com/media/content/behandlungsarten/4t.jpg)(http://www.schlafapnoe.com/media/content/behandlungsarten/5t.jpg)
man it is so tough to say. these guys are all criminals. this wasn't just jaw surgery. there's a nose job here for sure, and i'm fairly certain he did the bimax jaw surgery AND he augmented the jaw angles and cheekbones with the cadaver bone (lyocartilidge whtever). in fact i'd bet a hundred bucks on it. it is disgustingly dishonest for him to label this as just the results of a bi-max jaw surgery. he's such a f**ker.
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moreover there has been not only a submental lipectomy but a major neck AND FULL FACELIFT here. its pathetic to call this jaw surgery.
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How much advancement would you guess this guy had? I would think it could be 15mm with lower jaw and genio? The cephs show that his airway got way bigger.
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I agree, those Sailer results are extremely bizarre and unnatural. The whole ante-face theory/advancement only seems to work on a very few % of patients.
http://drrichardjoseph.com/jaw-surgery/ (http://drrichardjoseph.com/jaw-surgery/) - much more tasteful and natural looking
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Maybe I'm crazy but I think on guys especially having a more prominent jaw like Sailor advocates looks good (obviously sometimes Sailor goes too far however). Dr. Joseph is no doubt incredibly talented, but sometimes I feel like he leans in the opposite direction of Sailor and maybe doesn't go far enough sometimes.
For example: This guy looks way better after, but his mandible stills seems a little recessed maybe. For a girl I would say the proportions are perfect but for a guy I think a stronger jaw might be better. What do you think?
(http://www.drrichardjoseph.com/assets/BeforeAfter/Pictures/102/102A_Before.jpg)
(http://www.drrichardjoseph.com/assets/BeforeAfter/Pictures/102/102A_After.jpg)
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Maybe I'm crazy but I think on guys especially having a more prominent jaw like Sailor advocates looks good (obviously sometimes Sailor goes too far however).
For example: This guy looks way better after, but his mandible stills seems a little recessed maybe. For a girl I would say the proportions are perfect but for a guy I think a stronger jaw might better. What do you think?
My thoughts exactly. Pekay, just because some people end up looking overdone and unnatural doesn't mean the ante face theory is wrong.
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the "anteface" theory. i don't know whether to laugh or cry.
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My thoughts exactly. Pekay, just because some people end up looking overdone and unnatural doesn't mean the ante face theory is wrong.
but people have different head sizes/types/shape, spacing of features, nose, etc... a super projected lower third doesn't suit everyone.
what if a plastic surgeon that specializes in breast implants said that D cups are ideal, would it be okay for petite/small women to get them?
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I think the lower jaw has a key role in supporting soft tissue. The sharper your features the more points the tissue is well supported. Poor features and your neck will sag dragging the rest of your face down. My take anyways.
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The mature man on the previous page had a brilliant result! Sailer truly turned him into a strong handsome man.
I understand why there are people who are shocked at some of Sailer's results, personally I would hate to look normal, I love extreme faces, he appeals to me.
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I think a lot of Sailor's jaw surgeries come out really good actually. I think his ante face theory is pretty solid. I don't like his plastic surgery work though for the most part. His nose jobs tend to be way overdone as do his cheek implants and lip injections.
It's not his theory. He did not invent it, just like he did not invent CCW. It's a well researched theory. See this for example http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/PDF/634977779913771600.pdf (http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/PDF/634977779913771600.pdf)
I'm sorry if I sound negative about this man, but we shouldn't give credit where credit is not due.
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It's not his theory. He did not invent it, just like he did not invent CCW. It's a well researched theory. See this for example http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/PDF/634977779913771600.pdf (http://www.mauricemommaerts.eu/files/PDF/634977779913771600.pdf)
I'm sorry if I sound negative about this man, but we shouldn't give credit where credit is not due.
yeah this is a good discussion, i'm giving a plus 1 to falcao. He is absolutely right, if everything else is good, i.e. good hair, skin, shape of nose, the "full ante" face is indeed the most attractive for a male. I'd even say maybe the 4/3 ante face. But can we all achieve the full ante-face???? I don't know if it's possible for jaw surgery to do that. If you read the article, one of the things he says in the conclusion is that recognizing this trend is what's deterring most orthodontists from doing bicuspid extractions cause it causes the fullness of the lower face to recede. I'm going to shove that down my c*nt orhtos mouth.
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falcao, you're doing us all a great service by citing the relevant literature and relaying your experience here so thank you very much.
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Did he achieve it? I like that fem-boy look too, but I'm too old now to pull it off unfortunately.
Who knows? He disappeared from here right after having surgery. he said he looked like this guy: http://i.imgur.com/mMhvq.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/mMhvq.jpg)
Fem-boys age poorly i've noticed. HW said this was the perfect face:
(http://i.imgur.com/RMexc.jpg)
but in my experience, the masculine all-American look fares better even if it's more generic:
(http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad160/puffswami/1-1.png)
both are good looks though that few people have
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the second guy is better looking, but i think it's just cause that previous guy looks like 13. the second guy looks late 20s/early 30s. Anyway, he's ideally sort of handsome, but I like people who have a more edgy look, i don't mean style, even facial structure. --in all cases though it involves strong bone structure, lack of bone structure always looks gimp.
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the second guy is better looking, but i think it's just cause that previous guy looks like 13. the second guy looks late 20s/early 30s. Anyway, he's ideally sort of handsome, but I like people who have a more edgy look, i don't mean style, even facial structure. --in all cases though it involves strong bone structure, lack of bone structure always looks gimp.
yup
I believe it was A/G that said there are two components to attractiveness; bone structure and hair/skin quality
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yup
I believe it was A/G that said there are two components to attractiveness; bone structure and hair/skin quality
yeah, unfortunately no matter how good your bone structure, skin and hair quality both go to trash past 35....enjoy your youth while you have it kiddos. I remember Steve Martin saying in his bio, talking about his twenties. "We were ALL beautiful, we were in our youth." It's sort of true, unless your obese and not significantly disfigured. A fit 20-25 year old (esp. true of women) will always be better looking than a 40-45 year old. It's kind of true in the case of women. I mean George Clooney is the major outlier here, but his attractiveness is seriously bound up with being a hollywood star. Just based on looks any chick would choose one of the two guys above then George Clooney even at 40.... That's why I'm telling you guys, you can bang a lot of cougars(i mean like hot 30 and 40 year old women), even if you're like below average in your 20s, take advantage of it, you hit 35 and if you have to become a leopard hunter (60 plus), and homey, I AIN'T GOING OUT LIKE THAT!
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this is sad.
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this is sad.
welcome to life kid!
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i dunno, i used to think that actually, have you ever overheard girls talk about guys looks? I have, it would make you pee your pants my friend. They talk about the body in major depth --arms especially and abs and stuff, a lot of girls won't admit it, but they talk about that s**t alot, especially younger girls 15-25. And I've even heard girls talk about guys jawlines and stuff. I'm not saying that they'd go out or not with you based on these factors, but do they notice? You betcha.
As for would jaw surgery help you get chicks? Well chicks respond to two things: confidence and power. If jaw surgery makes you more confident, then maybe it will help you get chicks.
I don't actually give a f**k about chicks. I feel too old to even really care about all that. i'm interested in aesthetics for it's own sake because of my weird BDD obsession.
I've only seen a handful of cases that were transformative though tbh.
That Posnick guy and that Schendel guy are all that come to mind. Puberty guy doesn't count.
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Chicks like masculine guys, masculine guys tend to have strong bone structure including the jaw, that's all i was saying. you like feminine women right?
I also said you can never feign masculinity with surgery too so I wasn't suggesting it as some kind of road map to getting surgeries
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@Euphoria @CK
I'm actually curious, please don't take offence to this, it's a serious question. Have you guys ever considered either a) becoming gay, or b) becoming a tranny.
I ask because I was talking to this really good looking guy the other day who admitted to me that he was involved in organized crime. I don't want to go into details about how I met him etc.. but I was at a place and there were a group of REALLY good looking guys and they were young, like early 20s. One guy, I swear to god, I was like "dude you are seriously good looking, who do you remind me of?" And then I realized he was like a 20 year old, better looking version of tom cruise. His friend looked like vin diesel and he had another friend who was also pretty good looking. Anyway, you're probably wondering where the f**k I was, it was an after hours club owned by a biker gang in the city. I don't think I'll get in trouble for admitting any of this here. That's where I also met the off-work stripper I told you about in another thread. So we were chatting and they were actually really, really nice. I was asking them a lot about prison stories since I find that type of stuff quite fascinating. The guy who had a very hot girlfriend who was there, well he was telling me how there are a lot of fights in prison etc. etc. And we started talking about bisexuality and he told me that he had f**ked a few guys up the ass in prison, even though he does not consider himself bisexual or gay. He said a lot of guys f**k other guys in prison and it can be quite fun.
I don't judge on this stuff, but I found that interesting. Also, there were several transexuals at this place. And let me tell you, if you didn't know how to tell, you wouldn't be able to tell at all. I can due to height, hands and actually what you wouldn't think a sort of "hyper-feminism" I mean some of these shemales have been on hormone replacement, and have had massive massive amounts of structural stuff done to their faces (forehead contouring, cheek augmentation, lip augmentations, rhinos, but implants, they're super fierce about their grooming so they're hairless etc..). I mean they look hotter than most girls you see, I am absolutely not joking. They also dress, are more into fashion, much slimmer but with better boobs etc.. In fact that's one way to tell, because there are a lot of very pretty girls at these types of clubs as well --the hyperfeminism, almost more feminine then real women. I've seen a bunch of straight guys pick them up for the night or let them give them blowjobs.
Anyway, what I was wondering is that if you guys felt you couldn't get the chicks you wanted, would you ever consider either turning gay, so that at least you could date and stuff and have an emotional partner or b) would you consider becoming a tranny because then while you might not be able to attain your aesthetic ideal as a man, maybe you could as a female since, if you were a convincing enough looking female you'd have tons and tons of guys wanting to at least bang you and short term date you. And that might give you a sort of satisfaction of being desired. I'm just curious if you guys have ever entertained these sorts of thoughts.
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@Euphoria @CK
I'm actually curious, please don't take offence to this, it's a serious question. Have you guys ever considered either a) becoming gay, or b) becoming a tranny.
I ask because I was talking to this really good looking guy the other day who admitted to me that he was involved in organized crime. I don't want to go into details about how I met him etc.. but I was at a place and there were a group of REALLY good looking guys and they were young, like early 20s. One guy, I swear to god, I was like "dude you are seriously good looking, who do you remind me of?" And then I realized he was like a 20 year old, better looking version of tom cruise. His friend looked like vin diesel and he had another friend who was also pretty good looking. Anyway, you're probably wondering where the f**k I was, it was an after hours club owned by a biker gang in the city. I don't think I'll get in trouble for admitting any of this here. That's where I also met the off-work stripper I told you about in another thread. So we were chatting and they were actually really, really nice. I was asking them a lot about prison stories since I find that type of stuff quite fascinating. The guy who had a very hot girlfriend who was there, well he was telling me how there are a lot of fights in prison etc. etc. And we started talking about bisexuality and he told me that he had f**ked a few guys up the ass in prison, even though he does not consider himself bisexual or gay. He said a lot of guys f**k other guys in prison and it can be quite fun.
I don't judge on this stuff, but I found that interesting. Also, there were several transexuals at this place. And let me tell you, if you didn't know how to tell, you wouldn't be able to tell at all. I can due to height, hands and actually what you wouldn't think a sort of "hyper-feminism" I mean some of these shemales have been on hormone replacement, and have had massive massive amounts of structural stuff done to their faces (forehead contouring, cheek augmentation, lip augmentations, rhinos, but implants, they're super fierce about their grooming so they're hairless etc..). I mean they look hotter than most girls you see, I am absolutely not joking. They also dress, are more into fashion, much slimmer but with better boobs etc.. In fact that's one way to tell, because there are a lot of very pretty girls at these types of clubs as well --the hyperfeminism, almost more feminine then real women. I've seen a bunch of straight guys pick them up for the night or let them give them blowjobs.
Anyway, what I was wondering is that if you guys felt you couldn't get the chicks you wanted, would you ever consider either turning gay, so that at least you could date and stuff and have an emotional partner or b) would you consider becoming a tranny because then while you might not be able to attain your aesthetic ideal as a man, maybe you could as a female since, if you were a convincing enough looking female you'd have tons and tons of guys wanting to at least bang you and short term date you. And that might give you a sort of satisfaction of being desired. I'm just curious if you guys have ever entertained these sorts of thoughts.
none taken, but I'm not sure what're you getting at?
I can get women now, i can and do get hit on. I'm more interested in empowering & reinforincing personality with a more masculine look . tranny sounds like a step backwards from that goal
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but what if you could become a really fierce, gorgeous absolutely unique tranny? I mean a true diva? That would incite more desire and lust than any hunky guy ever could!
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but what if you could become a really fierce, gorgeous absolutely unique tranny? I mean a true diva? That would incite more desire and lust than any hunky guy ever could!
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17zpv9d2f6azagif/original.gif)
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My opinion on the taboo subject of people having invasive surgery purely for aesthetic enhancement is this...
I think a large part of your life is mapped out by the way you look, I would go as far to say that your personality is dictated by what stares back at you in the mirror.
For example, if you have large eyes accompanied with a child-like frame then people probably won't entrust you with important tasks, where as if you have narrow eyes with other features that we associate with sophistication, like a thin tall nose bridge with defined tip or sharp angular cheekbones and a good jaw, then they probably will take you quite seriously and trust you more.
I think stating "it's sad" that someone feels the need to alter their appearance, is purely a populist view. We wouldn't say that about most other attributes such as improving intelligence or job status.
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My opinion on the taboo subject of people having invasive surgery purely for aesthetic enhancement is this...
I think a large part of your life is mapped out by the way you look, I would go as far to say that your personality is dictated by what stares back at you in the mirror.
For example, if you have large eyes accompanied with a child-like frame then people probably won't entrust you with important tasks, where as if you have narrow eyes with other features that we associate with sophistication, like a thin tall nose bridge with defined tip or sharp angular cheekbones and a good jaw, then they probably will take you quite seriously and trust you more.
I think stating "it's sad" that someone feels the need to alter their appearance, is purely a populist view. We wouldn't say that about most other attributes such as improving intelligence or job status.
So would you say people unhappy with their appearance don't feel it fits their personality?
many "ugly" people are content it seems
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(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17zpv9d2f6azagif/original.gif)
Euphoria, do you actually know what gif this clip/interview was taken from? I'm curious who JL is giving sass to and what the question or comment might have been, thanks.
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The Hunger Games - Cast Appearance 3/3/12 - Westfield Century City (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dUvnxkqPD0#ws)
~ the 6 minute mark
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The Hunger Games - Cast Appearance 3/3/12 - Westfield Century City (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dUvnxkqPD0#ws)
~ the 6 minute mark
thanks! off topic: she's such a doll.
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So apparently Sailor charges 50,000 euros for double jaw surgery, which is about $68,000 dollars. Not sure who can afford that but I guess it is about the same as what Arnett and Gunson charge.
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So apparently Sailor charges 50,000 euros for double jaw surgery.
Where did you get that figure from?
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So apparently Sailor charges 50,000 euros for double jaw surgery, which is about $68,000 dollars. Not sure who can afford that but I guess it is about the same as what Arnett and Gunson charge.
Where did you get that from? I saw him last week and the price was 80,000 euros!
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Where did you get that from? I saw him last week and the price was 80,000 euros!
Lol oh my :o Is he the most expensive maxfac worldwide?
I have a feeling him or his staff/PR have been reading the forum discussions regarding him, as the photos of the red haired lady have been taken down from his website.
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My opinion on the taboo subject of people having invasive surgery purely for aesthetic enhancement is this...
I think a large part of your life is mapped out by the way you look, I would go as far to say that your personality is dictated by what stares back at you in the mirror.
For example, if you have large eyes accompanied with a child-like frame then people probably won't entrust you with important tasks, where as if you have narrow eyes with other features that we associate with sophistication, like a thin tall nose bridge with defined tip or sharp angular cheekbones and a good jaw, then they probably will take you quite seriously and trust you more.
I think stating "it's sad" that someone feels the need to alter their appearance, is purely a populist view. We wouldn't say that about most other attributes such as improving intelligence or job status.
Thank you for saying the thing so articulately. I feel like people emphasize the risks of surgery to people who are in it for aesthetics primarily. It always struck me as wrong because just because someone's case might be mild or not purely for functional reasons, doesn't necessarily mean they're more likely to have complications from surgery.Yes surgery is expensive, yes there are risks, but if it could give some a net benefit to their quality of life though improving their aesthetics, then they should be free to make that fully informed choice.
The problem a lot of the time is that people don't want the people they know to change.
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Can this be real?
(http://i62.tinypic.com/xf3fvb.jpg) (http://i61.tinypic.com/2po6qvs.jpg)
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Can this be real?
(http://i62.tinypic.com/xf3fvb.jpg) (http://i61.tinypic.com/2po6qvs.jpg)
Ante-face? Scooped out nose-job? Photoshop? Seems like Sailer's job.
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I think that result is incredible, from the before and after that is provided anyway.
An offensive face transformed into a strong handsome man.
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the after picture is heavily shopped though. it doesn't look completely natural either.
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wow, that is a very feminised face he ended up with. Not sure the improvements with jaw projection can outweigh the surgical look of his face - the michael jacksonesque scooped out nose and unnatural cheekbones. Just looked on his website and it seems like Sailer often manages to make his female patients more masculine and males more feminine :-/ Check out the bottom 2 photos on the page below.
http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/aesthetische_chirurgie/kieferwinkelaufbau.html
What is it with this cookie-cutter approach where each person's face is contorted into what he deems an ideal beauty? I do not agree with his aesthetic anyway, but even if it were a sound ideal, it should never be any surgeon's goal to remove the individual quality of a person's face. He is not interested in what is right for them, but forcing them into his mould. You can see this really clearly with his 'reverse facelift':
http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/aesthetische_chirurgie/facelift.html
Although I deeply dislike most of the work he does, there is one good result shown on his site of asymmetry correction (the young blonde girl):
http://www.sailerclinic.com/en/dysgnathie/asymmetrie.html
Not really enough to persuade me to enter his lair though...
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Hmm I hadn't noticed cheek implants on him... I'm not totally sure that he does have them.
The slight shadow you see under his zygomatic arch is probably due to different angle and lighting.
There's nothing wrong with this result surely?
(http://www.schlafapnoe.com/media/content/behandlungsarten/web_C4_g.jpg) (http://www.schlafapnoe.com/media/content/behandlungsarten/web_C2_g.jpg)
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Wow, how old is this man?
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Not sure how old he is, there's a video of him talking about the surgery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFs5cGX4CI&hd=1
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BSSO advancement after age 40 is a big deal. The possibility of permanent numbness is very high.
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yes, it is a good result, but it doesn't sway me. Maybe it works better on the older patients because when he suddenly brings in a lot of jaw projection there isn't a stretching of the skin as with the young ones. Rather the sudden projection is simply filling in what was previously baggy?? Who knows. Still wouldn't go with him. I already have a anteface, and I don't like it. I would de-project both jaws if I could, but alas, I would just end up with saggy skin. I would actually be fascinated to hear what Sailer would recommend for me, bearing this in mind. If he wanted to ramp up the anteface even more I would be in danger of entering equine territory ;D
PloskoPlus - I hear that a lot about age and nerve damage. I am currently 37(and a half), and worry that by the time I had had braces and found a surgeon etc I would be very close to 40. Do you think I am crazy for still considering surgery? I would be having CW rotation of both jaws and correction of asymmetry/cant. Is there nobody else on the board in their late 30s, or am I the board pensioner?
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I'm your age. Ante face too. I'll be getting upper jaw advancement only. The surgeon said BSSO has a higher risk of permanent numbness at my age, but he was really nonplussed by it all. One orthodontist that I saw said he sliced the nerves at the tip of his finger when making wires. It's permanently numb now. He thought he wouldn't be able to workwith this fInger, but after 6 months he stopped noticing. Most people seem not to be bothered. I tell you what really creeps me out. The very remote possibility of either permanent loss of sensation or constant pain in the tongue due to lingual nerve damage during wisdom teeth extraction. It's highly unlikely, but it has happened.
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oh hell yes. lingual nerve damage seems like a nightmare. i remember reading about it when i started to look up wisdom tooth removal, and then being relieved that mine was an upper jaw tooth. There is no way in hell I would have let my dentist do it, even if it wasn't strictly a surgical case and a lower risk upper jaw one. The lingual damage ones I read about online were all done by dentists as opposed to an oral/max specialists/surgeons. Not to say that it doesn't happen to the surgeons too.
Do you need wisdom tooth removal before your jaw surgery?
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o. hell yes. lingual nerve damage seems like a nightmare. i remember reading about it when i started to look up wisdom tooth removal, and then being relieved that mine was an upper jaw tooth. There is no way in hell I would have let my dentist do it, even if it wasn't strictly a surgical case and a lower risk upper jaw one. The lingual damage ones I read about online were all done by dentists as opposed to an oral/max specialists/surgeons. Not to say that it doesn't happen to the surgeons too.
Do you need wisdom tooth removal before your jaw surgery?
I think upper wisdom teeth will be removed at the time of the surgery. Dunno why. I think all my wisdom teeth are functional.