jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Emotional Support => Topic started by: aj08229 on September 21, 2014, 07:40:36 AM
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Hey everybody i have major concern after having a double jaw surgery for my underbite .
the numbness seems to go away but there is lot of tightness that i could feel in my lower lip and chin which bothers me time to time .i can feel it more when it is cold weather .does anybody have clue how to deal with this? or how much time would it take to go away ?
waiting for your helpful replies ,thank you
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Are you still in braces? I had trouble keeping my jaws in check while I still had my braces on but it's good now.
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Take this with a grain of salt (I have NOT had surgery yet).
You could talk to your surgeon and see if they would be willing to try Botox in your chin. If they (or you) don't want to do that, or if it doesn't work, you may want to consider having your chin hardware removed.
Cheers!
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@Gregor Samsa thanks for replying , i am not in braces .i just have a strange stiff feeling in my chin i am 1 year post op. to the surgery .my braces were removed by 4months post op. ..initially i had numbness where now it is all stiffness in chin and lower lip
@LoveofScotch thanks for reply , are you sure botox would work on a stiff skin and make it heal just like normal? any experiences would help me to ask .my surgeon says he does not have any idea about stiffness and i got my hardwares removed 2 months before .so there is no metal in my jaws or chin
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Oh, so no braces and no hardware? That kinda narrows down my thoughts. I assume you did have a genioplasty, correct? And they removed ALL the hardware from your entire face?
No, I have no idea if Botox would work or not. It depends on why you're experiencing the tightness you're having. It's got a pretty low risk profile, so I would probably give it a shot. Depending on what it's being used to treat, it's injected differently (or that's what I've been told), so I would see someone who has treated stuff like this before.
The only two things I can think of, that would be causing what you're experiencing, are scar tissue or angry soft tissue. Scar tissue is really difficult to treat. If it's horrible and there's a lot of it, they can sometimes perform surgery to remove it, but that comes with its own set of problems. Surgery itself creates scar tissue, so when they perform surgery to physically remove it (cut it out), more is actually formed by default. You could try acupuncture, or look into other complementary and/or alternative therapies. It also may just get better on its own, with time. Angry soft tissue is sometimes easier to treat. If your problems are muscular, then Botox has a good shot at helping. Sometimes just one treatment is enough to break the pain cycle. For soft tissue stuff, you could also look into acupuncture or other complementary and/or alternative therapies, too.
Does your chin burn at all?
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I tend to agree with LoS that it could be scar tissue.
Serrapeptase is a supplement that is said to be effective in aiding the body break down the scar tissue, this happens eventually anyway with time but this stuff just gives the process a bit of a kick up the arse. A good quality fish oil might be a useful addition too if you aren't already taking it.
I'd be inclined to aid the breakdown manually too with massage.
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@Los thanks alot for taking time for writing , i did not have had genio plasty done , only my upper jaw was moved forward and lower backwards. well my lip does not burn at all neither i have pain .it is just this uncomfortable tightness that i feel which gets worse out in cold like my lower lip is frozen .it is just on the area where i had numbness , i cant really say if it is scar tissues but when i stretch the area it feels little weird . worst thing is my surgeon has no idea about it.i am trying to find another surgeon just for this concern , i would definitely give a thought to acupuncture as you guided
@Modigliani thanks for the reply , i would try the fish oil . i did try before but there wasnt any improvement in lip or chin . as far the medicines i tried different varieties as told by my surgeons assistant .it never helped .it is more of nerves being traumatized feeling
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Hi aj08229,
If you see this, there's one more thing I thought of. Also, I just incorrectly assumed you had a genioplasty done. If your pain is coming from nerves (nerve pain), you could try pharmaceuticals. Two to try would be Pregabalin (sold under the brand name Lyrica), and Gabapentin (sold under several brand names, such as Neurontin, etc.). If you decide to go this route, I would personally try Neurontin first.
Unfortunately, with stuff like this, it's generally impossible to pinpoint the cause of pain w/o significant trial and error. I assume you've had a recent scan? If it's unremarkable, you're just going to have to start trying stuff. Sorry.
Also, do not for a damn second feel like something is "wrong" with you because your doctor can't figure this out.
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Dumb thing I heard - eating very spicy foods brings back/resets the nerves.
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One of the B vits is supposed to be particularly good too, can't remember which one.
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@LoS Well there is no nerve pain but only tightness or stiffness you can say which is uncomfortable .will those pharmaceuticals help with such issue?
@plosko haha I have been eating spicy foods after surgery for a year now..for this problem of tightness it does not work :)
@modi I had been taking vitamin b12 few months before .did not really made any difference for the tightness
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No, they really wouldn't help if your tightness/stiffness is caused by scar tissue, or is muscle pain, etc. Although it doesn't sound like you're experiencing nerve pain, it's not impossible. Sometimes nerve pain presents itself in kinda a funny way. From what you described it doesn't really fit, but I still wanted to throw it out there. (Remember, I'm just a random person on the internet; I probably don't know what I'm talking about.)
Any chance the frenulum of your lower lip got stitched back up too tightly and is creating a tight, pulling sensation? I don't even know if that can happen...
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@Los ok now that's skeptical .about the frenulum of my lower lip .on the left and right side of it I could feel layers just like frenulum which I believe are caused by the stitches and incisions were made after the surgery .could they or any disturbance to frenulum could generate this tight feeling? just like something is trapped
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Sorry, I don't understand exactly what you're asking? And I truly don't know if stitching the frenulum up too tightly could cause what you're experiencing. If anything it seems like people mention it's too lax after surgery, and they're left with a "loose lip" feel/look.
If things are really horrible they could always go in and do exploratory surgery, but then you're going to be left with even more scar tissue from the new incisions. If you've already had your hardware removed, you would be cutting into your gums for the third time. No good.
I wish I had more to offer, but I'm out of ideas. Maybe some people here who've had surgery can be of more help.
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My whole lower lip is numb (and a little bit below it) in one long strip a year after surgery.
I'm not sure if that's the same thing you're describing. But it's "dead-numb" not tingly numb, so it feels stiff to me.
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Check if you have for sure 100% of feelling, not 99% or little less.
How ?
take something thin barely cold (for example mini-jack end) and check by gentle touch on the both side how you feel it - if this is exactly the same feeling
also take a sharp pin. Touch gently, then harder on both side.
If during these "tests" you feel kinda different feeling (even a little) especially somethin like pinch or itching (more then on the healthy side) then you have problem with nerve function
The other side I mean left / right part of the lip or upper / lower lip. Dependently on which nerve was affected
HINT: If You tense up your lips during these tests, then any distirbuance in feeling will be more noticeable
Please give me feedback, what you noticed
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Hey rico thanks alot for the reply . i checked my feelings with the test you described . when i touch on my lower lip/chin with something barely cold it just feels sort of normal on both sides .no itching sensations or pinch . same with the sharp pin but when i scratch it on the surface of my chin it feels as though there is some layer above the tissues .it feels different and stiff as i mentioned earlier .when i am outside in cold it gets more stiffer and sometimes hard to move my lower lip .i can talk by moving lips but it feels stuck near that area .
I just met my surgeon today and what he says is there is nothing wrong with it and everything looks fine for him. but i do feel it all the time .as far the sensations when i touch my lip i can feel the touch but still this sensation of frozen/stiff lip bothers me time to time . i dont know where to go from here to cure it , please help me.thank you
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jawbreakerbeach , i dont really know whether it is numbness ,when i touch my lower lip or chin i could feel it ,but this stiffness bothers me mostly when it is cold :( :( my surgeon does not understand it , i am just out of options to deal with this
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This is a really basic suggestion, but have you tried a hot pack (or something like that)? It's obviously not going to cure anything, but it may at least make it feel a little better. If the stiffness gets worse when it's cold out I would give it a try.
Sorry you're still having this problem, aj08229.
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Surgeons in such sitation often can't do nothing and they do not want to do anything, because the situation is very unclear. Any surgical procedure may makes problem worse.
For me it looks like 95%-99% of nerve function. Typical for this is that you can feel something like extra thin foil (additional layer) on the skin when you touch very very gently..gently move your finger-nail on the skin...
Do you feel something like this ? Very Slight compression possible (by any device, tissue, or bone) or just permanet damage. The nerve could not gain its 100% function.
However compression should gave a little hypersensitivity (not always), for example when you scratch affected area you could feel more pain... The slight painin such situation may also occour without reason
Also typical for this can be a situation, when you move your nail ( gently touch) on the affected skin, you can feel the whole affected area. Something like you touch here and you feel also a few milimiter / centimeters s futher away. Do you feel something like this ?
I have slight compression of a nerve (i know there is compression for 99%) and I have very good feeling like you, but I feel there is something wrong..like lack 1-5% of function
it is very subtle and hard to describe. You are sensible like me for such slight hyposathesia and you are focused on that. You feel it constantly. I have very slight hypoasthesia (barely detectable) and hyperasthesia (including slight pain). I'm gonna have surgery without any gurantee it will help. Probably not - too much time passed away. Fortunately most surgeons tell me that my nerve can be relatively easily to release causing only minor damage to the nerve. Minor damage gives a lot of chance the nerve will regenerate at least to the point as it was before surgery. Of course there is low chance (but possible) that surgeon may damage the nerve severly
any mini plates there ?
Perhaps little scar on tissue on the course of nerve.
Try to do a lot of massages. If this is scar issue, then perhaps somehow it will help.
For how long nothing has changed ? I mean how many weeks / months ago you felt last improvement ?
Last thing you can try is long acting cortisteroid injection near the nerve. I felt improvement after such procedure. But in my case it was performed due to hypersensitivity, to check what happen.
Consider also laser therapy
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@LoveofScotch yes hot packs give temporary feeling of normal lip/chin but its temporary .thank you for the suggestion :)
@Rico yes i could feel the slightest touch , when i scratch around the affected area i dont feel any pain but it feels like having one more layer above the skin and generally it is stiff (more in cold)
one thing i noticed when i touch near back of my teeth on lower palate when i press there i get a sensation near the front lower lip and same way when i press front lower palate i feel some nerves from the front of my chin pressed . though i dont have much of pain it is just stiffness and uncomfortable to talk sometimes (moving the lower lip)
i have my plates removed almost 6 months ago, i am 1year 5months post op. ,the improvment of numbness was noticable till 8-9 months then there might me slow improvments hard to notice and the feeling i am describing continues
what does releasing of nerves mean? i would definately try for any alternative solution because i am sure living with this feeling for rest of my life is not easy , what i am feeling might be hypersensivity too , what are it's symptoms? and can you tell me the procedure of cortisteroid injection that you described and whom should i consult for that ?
Thanks alot for helping me with such helpful responses i have hope the things you are explaning would play a big role for the cure , please inbox me your full name i can catch you up on facebook . thanks alot :)
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So now it is clear your nerve has very limited loss of function. I mean kinda 90 - 95% of normal function
Releasing a nerve means to decompress it, but you have to know if you have it compressed. Nerve can be compressed , for example by a bone or some scarr tissue.
Generally if you had at least 50% of feeling after surgery, then perhaps there is little chance, that the nerve still has some small ability for further recover, because there is little chance that something blocks a litle of nerve function.
But if your feeling after surgery was very poor, then the nerve was damaged more severly and your nerve just could not restore its 100% function. At this point you can't do nothing
Probably no surgeon tells you if you have nerve compressed, but you can try to consult... nothing too lose
you can take laser therapy
eventually cortisteroid injection near the nerve foramen if the canal is not very long... this is sometimes performed if there is compression suspected. Sometimes compression causes inflammation which affects nerve function, but since you do not have any pain, the compression is unlike, but possible...even if the nerve has not recovered due to compression, now it is probably too late. Additionally if a nerve is compressed somewhere in lower jaw or anywhere inside a long bone - then probably nooone will touch this. Not clear situation, and surgery may make it worse.
you can try some things I metioned, but to be honest you have very low chances that something will help
If you are so sensitive to nerves damages you nerver should have had any surgery
Now, for 90% your condition is permanent. But check some last options, nothing to loose
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i am sort of sure the nerves are compressed , because when i pull my lower lip with my hand i feel some tightness ,and one or two nerves feel like they wont strech any further and gives kind of sharp pain ,it is like one nerve on the left and other on right and few between that feel this way . can you please tell me right treatment option for this ? does laser involves risk too? waiting for your reply
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and does poor job with incisions and stitches could lead to this?
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and does poor job with incisions and stitches could lead to this?
I'm a little interested in this as well. What exactly is the stiffness feeling? It must be the restitching/scar tissue. It's like if you re-hemmed a pair of jeans or something. I guess that means it can't really be improved in any way?
My problem definitely isn't a nerve problem, though I'd say I have like 5% permanent numbness.
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It feels heavy on the lower lip and sometimes hard to mobilize that is how i can define my condition
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My problem definitely isn't a nerve problem, though I'd say I have like 5% permanent numbness.
definetely it is a nerve problem. Especially If after surgery You had significant (huge) loss of feeling , then the nerve just has not restored its 100% function
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definetely it is a nerve problem. Especially If after surgery You had significant (huge) loss of feeling , then the nerve just has not restored its 100% function
Sorry, to clarify, the numbness (which I understand is a problem with the nerve) isn't MY problem. Though it is very slightly numb, the real problem is the stiffness, which I believe has to do with complex nature of the chin surgery and restitching the gums afterwards.
I have scheduled an appointment next week to talk to my surgeon about removing a couple plates around my nose, and I'll ask about this as well. It wasn't mentioned as a complication of the surgery, and I hear people complaining about it all over the place.
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Sorry, to clarify, the numbness (which I understand is a problem with the nerve) isn't MY problem. Though it is very slightly numb, the real problem is the stiffness, which I believe has to do with complex nature of the chin surgery and restitching the gums afterwards.
I have scheduled an appointment next week to talk to my surgeon about removing a couple plates around my nose, and I'll ask about this as well. It wasn't mentioned as a complication of the surgery, and I hear people complaining about it all over the place.
Is the stiffness more when it is cold weather ? are you trying any therapy or medications for it ? do let us know what your surgeon says about it :) hope we figure this out together
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Surgeon said the problem is likely the plate on my chin immediately under my lower lip and how the tissue is connected there. My fear is that removing this could make things worse even though the surgeon is confident it is the problem.
Do you have a plate on your chin too aj?
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Under the lower lip, how far down? The root of the teeth go down pretty low and I don't think any sort of plates or screws should be staying there.
(http://phuketdentalstudio.com/images/wisdom-teeth/1.jpg)
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It feels like midway between the top of my lower teeth and the bottom of my chin. It may be RIGHT below the roots. Is this a recommendation to get it removed? The surgeon seems to agree.
The stiffness isn't ideal at all, but I certainly don't want to make anything worse.
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Have you gotten any x-rays? That should show if the roots are covered by the plate.
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jusken i did not have genioplasty so no plates on chin , i had plates on my both jaws which has been removed , all i have is stiffness in my lower lip which bothers me time to time and it is over sensitive
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I realized that what i have is numb patches on both side of my lower lip , and they tend to get heavy and stiff which i dont know why , also i dont think majority of people having numb patches dont feel stiff or feeling of having frozen lip in cold . some sort of over sensitivity . does anybody know what this could be ? or a scar tissue which i have to break
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Stiffness on lips / chin ?
it seems like it's damaged nerve issue. Do you have at the same time reduced feeling there ?
MOST PEOPLE FEEL STIFNESS ON THE NUMB AREA. ME TOO . IT'S TYPICAL.. EVEN IF YOU LOOSE 1-5% OF FEELING
If yes.... then..
if you can't live with damaged nerve, why you underwent surgery ? it's forbidden for people who can't live with damaged nerves
i know easy to say..... all of us had / have hope
and it will never be better
sad but true
of course you can take same drugs to reduce symptoms, but every drug has some side effects and it does not alleviate main issue
welcome to world of people who can't live with damaged nerve on face
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I wasn't told that this was such a common issue.
I can cope with numbness (which isn't severe---just some tingling)
but it's the stiffness which feels like the mouth was sewed up too tight and even my smile looks "tight" and awkward.
Sometimes it's so tight that I get a headache and constantly pull my lower lip which actually reduces the tightness but only when I keep doing it.
I have this in my upper lip. The stiffness is truly horrible. I roll my lip over my teeth to loosen it up.
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but stiffness is a product of numbness...you can't do anything untill you repair your nerve.. what is impossible in this century
it's kinda pulling feeling.. paradoxically the more numbness you have the more you feel that something is not OK
so the less you feel, the more you feel other symptoms
tingling ? it's a sign of nerve regeneration
or perhaps you have compressed nerve by a plate ? remove them
i bet there are some people who killed themselves due to such problem
Once regeneration stopped, it never will be better... never
i hope other people think about the surgery more times..before they make decision
but hey at least you have very smal area
i feel the same symptoms on that area:
https://www.proceduresconsult.jp/UploadedImages/pcj_0106_00001600_100000_small_03112010173005.jpg
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i guess me and you are in the same boat
check pm Isabella123
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Hello I am coming a bit late on this thread to say the least
But I have then exact same issue you described
Have you found a solution please ?
Many thanks
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I’ll share what a good surgeon whom I won’t name told me about the causes of stiffness. See his words below,
“ Numbness after genioplasty is most frequently due to partial or complete damage to the mental nerve. Stiffness and frozen“ feeling is related to the amount of degloving of the muscles and soft tissue from the underlying bone that needs to be reattached afterwards and can lead to scarring. Both issues should be avoidable in experienced hands, but healing problems can also occur after any operation and in any patient.”
On whether it can be treated:
“Unfortunately Nerve lesion is almost impossible to be treated satisfactorily. Scarring can sometimes be released a bit, but never completely. The best thing is avoiding it from the very beginninG.”
Also, according to him, the surgeons that say numbness is the cause “know that that’s not the case but just do not want to admit it.”
For those who insist that “stiffness is a byproduct of numbness” please point me to the literature that supports this. I don’t think you’ll find anything that says the nerves do anything more than merely supply sensation. “Stiffness” is not a sensation, it’s not something you can determine with a pin prick. It’s something you observe in motion, e.g. stiff joints, stiff muscles, etc.
Take that FWIW. Seems right to me. There are too many people with numbness who don’t have stiffness for this to be the same problem. It’s not.
This problem mostly cannot be treated, however there are surgeons out there who see patients for “stiffness after genioplasty” and claim to have offered them great relief.
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So it sounds like the nerve issue is a lost cause, but the scarring can be at least partially released? That part might be worth pursuing further
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So it sounds like the nerve issue is a lost cause, but the scarring can be at least partially released? That part might be worth pursuing further
Yeah I’m eventually going to try it, but right now it’s not a priority. Also I’m not getting my hopes up.